Had a reapers 5 that had just finished the fort (molten sands) the second they saw me they sailed into the red sea and sank all the while taunting me.
Just to be clear I got the loot anyway tall tale for the win. I feel that this behaviour is super petty and unsportsman like (even for a pirate game) and it would have been incredibly frustrating if I wasn't able to get it.
Please make loot float back into the map to discourage this behaviour
Disagree. The shroud is supposed to be impassible, so it makes sense that things would be impossible to collect at some point.
If anything, the shroud should be less survivable and cause damage to the player as well as the ship. If the players manage to make it to the final barrier, then it is lost to all.
I disagree, the shroud is there to mark a boundary in which we play as the world cannot be endless... no man should be able to traverse it without a breaker, yet why should loot not simply drift by the current back to the edge into the Sea of Thieves where it belongs?
Being spiteful and entering the red sea with the attitude: If I cannot have it nobody can... is just bad sportsmanship and the game should not support that type of behavior. Why should the game not try and uphold & promote its own code of conduct?
It isn't difficult to just go in a straight line for the red and have no way to be stopped. Don't act like like it is some type of hard achievement to do this or that you can prevent it. Each ship can simply maintain the distance they have or outrun the other in any match up.
Entering the Red Sea isn’t unsporting. I don’t want you to have my loot, knowing I can’t win a fight after finishing a fort. I rather sink the loot. Why? If I can’t turn it in. Nobody will.
My ship, my rules.
Using tall tale to prevent yourself from sinking. Props for thinking but that is I sporting for my taste. What if you finished the fort and took off into the Red Sea, knowing you be okie but the other didn’t? That be unsporting (running into the Red Sea) but clever tactic to keep the loot non the less.
Anyways. Oh well?
It’s bad sport to speak In bad manners while being chased? Meh
In the end you still got the loot.
@cotu42 Nobody should be able to traverse it at all with the exception of one location, which is the area separating the Shores of Gold from the Wilds and Devils Roar. That is not meant to be a boundary to the game, but for the story.
Whatever reason the other player uses for running into the red is irrelevant to me, my goal is to stop them by the various means allotted to us just as they do to try and escape.
If the shroud were made more difficult to traverse before hitting the hard boundary, this would be even less of a problem.
@archangel-timmy said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
@cotu42 Nobody should be able to traverse it at all with the exception of one location, which is the area separating the Shores of Gold from the Wilds and Devils Roar. That is not meant to be a boundary to the game, but for the story.
It very much is a boundary of the game. Yes it has lore attached to it, which is all nice and dandy, but it just is the edge of the game world. This is not a story, a book or a movie... it is a game and the gameplay is still the most important key element of it. You are being disingenuous with this statement, as the fact of the matter is yes, the red sea is made to be the boundary of the playfield. It literally prevents us from venturing forth.
Whatever reason the other player uses for running into the red is irrelevant to me, my goal is to stop them by the various means allotted to us just as they do to try and escape.
If the shroud were made more difficult to traverse before hitting the hard boundary, this would be even less of a problem.
- Make the shroud act as a storm, constantly throwing your wheel which would keep 1 player from bucketing and repairing.
- For a drowning effect on the player as the shroud becomes more dense around them.
- The deeper into the shroud, more holes or even larger ones.
- As the shroud gets thicker, your ship moves slower.
The issue is not the difficulty to traverse it, as those that head there have no interest in traversing it at all and just want to go to the boundary with the goal to be a bad sport, to go NANANANANA... you cannot have my loot! The game will prevent you from gathering it even though the ship is being intentionally destroyed, defeat is what they choose. They are not trying to escape at that point, as that implies that they are trying to survive.
They aren't trying to be smart, go in there make it more dangerous with the goal to get out and survive. There is also no means to stop this either, if they have a larger ship they head with the wind, if they have a smaller ship they head against it... it is literally sail in a straight line and you can reach the red sea without any counter play, as the red sea is in a 360 degree. You have no various means to stop a crew you are chasing from reaching the red sea, unlike in a normal chase... the red sea isn't going to cause them to change course, as that is the designation.
The simple fact of what this does in the game, the gameplay it provides is: The crew is simply denying the ability of the other crew to gather the spoils, because they are bad sports. What their reason to be that way is irrelevant, whether it is out of spite, wanting to see the world burn and seek an emotional reaction from the others, or simply out of entitlement... that is not the question.
Yet the impact it has on the game is important, not the reason why people do it: Why should the game allow players to place loot in an position where nobody can collect it to be sold? Should scuttling your ship or it being sunk just drag all the loot to the bottom of the seas with it? No, it floats up for a reason... so why should the red sea not act in the same manner?
@burnbacon said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
Entering the Red Sea isn’t unsporting. I don’t want you to have my loot, knowing I can’t win a fight after finishing a fort. I rather sink the loot. Why? If I can’t turn it in. Nobody will.
My ship, my rules.Using tall tale to prevent yourself from sinking. Props for thinking but that is I sporting for my taste. What if you finished the fort and took off into the Red Sea, knowing you be okie but the other didn’t? That be unsporting (running into the Red Sea) but clever tactic to keep the loot non the less.
Anyways. Oh well?
It’s bad sport to speak In bad manners while being chased? Meh
In the end you still got the loot.
It very much is bad sportsmanship.
In the end: nobody gets the loot, because it is literally being placed outside of the Sea of Thieves in the red sea where nobody can collect it. This is why it is unsportsmanlike. It is being a sore loser. Drive by selling, heading to the shores of gold, out sailing, stashing it on an island (hiding it) and avoiding the fight are all fair game... hell scuttling is also fine, as there is no shame in defeat and if you don't want to fight don't. Making loot inaccessible by removing it from the playfield... unsportsmanlike.
I'm fine with people running loot to the red. It's their loot they can do whatever they wish with it. If I can't stop them well perhaps I should change my tactics and find another way to prevent that from happening. My question is how do you know they even had loot on board to begin with? Perhaps they baited you out there while one of their crew members made off in a row boat. I've actually pulled this off before and still run into the red making the other players think we just dumpstered the loot. Got some very interesting messages from that one.
Nope
people complain about people doing this or that with the loot they are holding but the only unsportsmanlike conduct is behavior to each other not gameplay
People that complain the most about what people do with the loot typically have nothing to lose. They generally server hop or they lurk pvers then they attack so it's not like there is any sort of honorable method involved here. It's all valid. If people wanna swim their level 5 flag 5 miles through shark infested waters so their attackers don't get it or if they wanna sail a boat full of loot into the abyss so be it.
People get to play however they want. They get to be as petty as they want as peaceful as they want as hostile as they want. Deal with it.
@cotu42 said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
@archangel-timmy said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
@cotu42 Nobody should be able to traverse it at all with the exception of one location, which is the area separating the Shores of Gold from the Wilds and Devils Roar. That is not meant to be a boundary to the game, but for the story.
It very much is a boundary of the game.
I never said it was not a boundary as it is obvious to anyone that Devil's Shroud running along the outer edge of the map is indeed a boundary.
Yes it has lore attached to it, which is all nice and dandy, but it just is the edge of the game world. This is not a story, a book or a movie... it is a game and the gameplay is still the most important key element of it.
It is more than just the edge of a map, otherwise it would more than likely be a simple invisible wall that one cannot pass. The Shroud is implemented in a way that follows the lore in that it destroys your ship and venturing too far is a perilous venture that ends in death. A ship running is lost to the Shroud along with anything they may carry. Gameplay is important, and gameplay is influenced by the lore.
You are being disingenuous with this statement, as the fact of the matter is yes, the red sea is made to be the boundary of the playfield. It literally prevents us from venturing forth.
Nothing disingenuous about what I said, you are merely misunderstanding.
@archangel-timmy said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
Nobody should be able to traverse it(Devil's Shroud)at all with the exception of one location, which is the area separating the Shores of Gold from the Wilds and Devils Roar. That(U1-U7, U7-Z7)is not meant to be a boundary to the game, but for the story.
The Shroud along the exterior of the entire map is different than the Shroud protecting the Shores of Gold. The former (impassable) is a boundary for the game while the latter (passable) is not.
@cotu42 said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
@archangel-timmy said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
Whatever reason the other player uses for running into the red is irrelevant to me, my goal is to stop them by the various means allotted to us just as they do to try and escape.
If the shroud were made more difficult to traverse before hitting the hard boundary, this would be even less of a problem.
- Make the shroud act as a storm, constantly throwing your wheel which would keep 1 player from bucketing and repairing.
- For a drowning effect on the player as the shroud becomes more dense around them.
- The deeper into the shroud, more holes or even larger ones.
- As the shroud gets thicker, your ship moves slower.
The issue is not the difficulty to traverse it, as those that head there have no interest in traversing it at all and just want to go to the boundary with the goal to be a bad sport, to go NANANANANA... you cannot have my loot! The game will prevent you from gathering it even though the ship is being intentionally destroyed, defeat is what they choose. They are not trying to escape at that point, as that implies that they are trying to survive.
They are literally traversing (to pass across or through) the Devil's Shroud. The fact that it is so easy is also the issue, arguably more so than they are able to do it all in my opinion.
They aren't trying to be smart, go in there make it more dangerous with the goal to get out and survive. There is also no means to stop this either, if they have a larger ship they head with the wind, if they have a smaller ship they head against it... it is literally sail in a straight line and you can reach the red sea without any counter play, as the red sea is in a 360 degree. You have no various means to stop a crew you are chasing from reaching the red sea, unlike in a normal chase... the red sea isn't going to cause them to change course, as that is designation.
Didn't say they were trying to be smart, trying to survive, or anything in regards they why they are doing it. I said I do not care for their reasoning as my only goal is to try and stop them. The chaser has the option to sneak up on their prey, out sail them, trick them into coming back by backing off, etc. The chaser isn't completely powerless and aren't being forced to blindly follow behind another ship that they are unable to catch.
The simple fact of what this does in the game, the gameplay it provides is: The crew is simply denying the ability of the other crew to gather the spoils, because they are bad sports. What their reason to be that way is irrelevant, whether it is out of spite, wanting to see the world burn and seek an emotional reaction from the others, or simply out of entitlement... that is not the question.
The reason is irrelevant and the game allows it in a meaningful way, it is just too simple to do.
Yet the impact it has on the game is important, not the reason why people do it: Why should the game allow players to place loot in an position where nobody can collect it to be sold? Should scuttling your ship or it being sunk just drag all the loot to the bottom of the seas with it? No, it floats up for a reason... so why should the red sea not act in the same manner?
The impact is so minor that it is largely insignificant. The loot belongs to nobody until it is turned in for gold, but the one in possession gets to make the decisions up until they lose said possession.
It fits the lore, isn't emersion breaking, adds another way of play for both PvE and PvP. Players getting booty-hurt because they didn't get the loot is not enough to change my mind on this, but I offer some suggestions that make it more difficult and fun to do.
I do this on occasion to those toerag crews with foul potty mouths you encounter from time to time. (seems the sea's some days are full of em)
The way I see this is the loot gathered by myself shall see a fate I deem fit for it not some fate decided by another. If that fate be "If I canni cash it in no one can" then so be it. I put the effort into obtaining it after all the chasing crew did not.
Unsportsmanlike I hear you cry? Sure you can choose to view it that way.
You could always choose to see it a different way too but that's on you.
Let's face it most crews friend or foe are not willing to sacrifice the time and effort they put into gathering said loot just to hand it over to another because, ya know that excuse for abysmal behaviour some people use in this game, Pirates!
@cotu42 said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
- It is not your loot; you didn't sell it and therefore it is just loot. It isn't for you to deny the access to it. Loot floats up because once you sunk it should be able to be gathered once again. Its owner is the one that collects it either from the soil or the prying hands of others.
The loot does not belong to anyone until it is turned in, but the one in possession of it gets to make all of the decisions regarding said loot until it is no longer in their possession.
- You claim to keep the loot, but by heading into the red sea you don't keep it. You literally make it impossible for anyone to get it, including yourself.
Which is acceptable as they were in possession of the loot.
In the end: nobody gets the loot, because it is literally being placed outside of the Sea of Thieves in the red sea where nobody can collect it. This is why it is unsportsmanlike. It is being a sore loser. Drive by selling, heading to the shores of gold, out sailing, stashing it on an island (hiding it) and avoiding the fight are all fair game... hell scuttling is also fine, as there is no shame in defeat and if you don't want to fight don't. Making loot inaccessible by removing it from the playfield... unsportsmanlike.
This is all subjective, as these are all viable options to me. Preventing another pirate from getting your loot is just as piraty as stealing it.
@burnbacon said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
Entering the Red Sea isn’t unsporting. I don’t want you to have my loot, knowing I can’t win a fight after finishing a fort. I rather sink the loot. Why? If I can’t turn it in. Nobody will.
My ship, my rules.Using tall tale to prevent yourself from sinking. Props for thinking but that is I sporting for my taste. What if you finished the fort and took off into the Red Sea, knowing you be okie but the other didn’t? That be unsporting (running into the Red Sea) but clever tactic to keep the loot non the less.
Anyways. Oh well?
It’s bad sport to speak In bad manners while being chased? Meh
In the end you still got the loot.
Imagine if you were playing a game of soccer and could just kick the ball out of bounds and automatically tie the game.
It is unsporting in every sense!
@mferr11 said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
If you waste the time they spent adventuring by denying them access to sell, they can waste the time you spent chasing by denying you access to sell.
They just wasted their own time in this particular occasion, like I said I got the loot and I only sailed from cursewater (Athena still on board) also my crewmate was still afk so they had me outnumbered 3 to 1. They were all pl too so they were either trolling or they were pve snowflakes.
Imagine if you were playing a game of soccer and could just kick the ball out of bounds and automatically tie the game.
It is unsporting in every sense!
Well if I was being forced to play a game I didn't want to play forcing a tie sounds fair to me. It's not against the rules in this case.
It is subjective, yet the move out of bounds and denying it to everyone is a negative element in the game. Lore is just as much crafted by the devs as the rest of the game. It is a horrible excuse to give for bad gameplay mechanics.
In these cases nobody wins, everyone loses and that is not a good game mechanic. Creating a lose lose scenario is never positive. If you argue the one running into the sea wins, because they get to deny the satisfaction of the other crew. Then you just described an act of griefing, as the motive is to deny others of their fun instead of achieving your own.
Even if it is not something that I encounter often as I rarely get into extended chases as the pursuer, it isn't the type if behavior that I believe should be promoted by the developers. If I am being chased I never head to the red sea, I actually simply try to win the encounter with smart sailing, drop off sells, etc.
Loot in red sea should float back.
Makes no sense, why?
@xzodeak sagte in Loot in red sea should float back.:
Had a reapers 5 that had just finished the fort (molten sands) the second they saw me they sailed into the red sea and sank all the while taunting me.
ah because you werent able to catch another ship and need the game to be changed to your favors - understandable, but sorry NO if you ask me.
bemorepirate next time
to keep control over the battle psychologically is key - it's a difference if i sacrifice loot to the Shroud or to lose it to someone else if i see i have no chance or just arent willing to fight for it.
All tell me let everyone play like they want to and freedom etc...
But when someone decides to sacrifice it all in the Shroud then its wrong?
What doublestandards are that?
Maybe he's a roleplayer streaming how he want to awake the ancients by sinking loot in the shroud?! :D
You knever know peoples intentions, do you
It yould be my mom not knowing where to go.
It could be my daughter who made bad experiences with insulting trashtalkers
It could be me having fun seeing you chasing me for nothing for an hour etc... etc...
@xzodeak Football (Soccer) Players do this all the time though. You often see players kick the ball into an opposing team player then it bounces off pitch, this awards the team who didn't have last contact with the ball a throw in from the side lines.
Is that Unsporting behaviour or is it a well defined Tactic within that particular sport? Faking Fouls is also a prevalent Tactic in that sport that Unsporting too then.
@cotu42 I would agree except that is a mechanic in the game, By that logic if someone only enjoyed the PvE aspects and their fun was ruined by people who only had fun by taking the fun away from others that only enjoyed those elements (I.E. PvE grinding) wouldn’t that also make the thieves griefers in that case?It just seems like a slippery slope to say what mechanics are and are not exclusive to griefing. I will admit I’ve sailed into the red a few times but theres no taunting involved cause that IS kinda unsporting.
@naughtstridin said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
@cotu42 I would agree except that is a mechanic in the game, By that logic if someone only enjoyed the PvE aspects and their fun was ruined by people who only had fun by taking the fun away from others that only enjoyed those elements (I.E. PvE grinding) wouldn’t that also make the thieves griefers in that case?It just seems like a slippery slope to say what mechanics are and are not exclusive to griefing. I will admit I’ve sailed into the red a few times but theres no taunting involved cause that IS kinda unsporting.
My point is that it is a bad mechanic which should be adjusted, as it is simply just a mechanic which allows people to force a lose/lose situation.
A PvP crew that is seeking a fight will not be happy if you do not fight back, if you scuttle or head into the red sea. Just the same as the one that wants to not be in a battle will not be happy if someone shows up and engages in combat with them. Not fighting back is not griefing, that is a personal choice. Running away for an hour making the PVP crew salty is not griefing as your goal is to escape.
The question here is why should the loot not be obtainable? Why should the red sea sinking act and behave differently than scuttling the ship or being sunk? Isn't the whole idea of heading into the red sea not purely spiteful to ensure that if you lose, that you make the other person lose as well and then call that a victory? Therefore the terms of victory is purely based on ensuring the other side loses, even if that means you also lose the loot? Would that not be considered a griefing intent, as your goal is not longer to claim victory it is purely about ensuring the other side loses?
@ixxolos said in Loot in red sea should float back.:
@xzodeak Football (Soccer) Players do this all the time though. You often see players kick the ball into an opposing team player then it bounces off pitch, this awards the team who didn't have last contact with the ball a throw in from the side lines.
Is that Unsporting behaviour or is it a well defined Tactic within that particular sport? Faking Fouls is also a prevalent Tactic in that sport that Unsporting too then.
Ok bad example on my part. its more like running away with the ball and setting fire to it
@cotu42 That makes sense yeah. I can see what you mean man, It is spiteful more often than not. I am in the camp that all that enters the shroud is forfeit, but I can certainly see the other side of the argument too. It’d be super frustrating if you spent all that time following someone, knowing the have something of value just to see em throw it all out just so you don’t get a chance at it. I also see why the people doing it get super frustrated at the PvP peeps for chasing em for so long too, so in the end it just ends up a super frustrating mess for all. And I hope I don’t come off as stupid for saying it, and Im not saying anyone here does it, but sometimes with PvP it almost feels like one side is bullying the weaker side and they are expected to fight back or just take it, like if they say anything that makes em weak or “carebears” or some other ... nastier... words. I dunno, I know alot of peeps probably don’t agree with that feeling and its kinda off topic but its just my two cents.
Forfeiting is not an issue, scuttling is also a means of that. Why should the red sea act differently? Why does the loot float up, if it's unobtainable?
Chases can be frustrating for both sides, whether you want a fight and cannot catch up or you just want to be left alone and are fleeing. I have made pirates salty by doing both those aspects and both sides can be nasty and foul mouths.
The control is much in the hands of those that flee, which is good for the people that don't want to fight. If they play well, the other crew should never catch them. They can learn to drive by sell, use rowboats and all that to still secure the treasure. In the end, the spoils should go to the better team. Whether that is by means of sailing and drive by selling, sneaky rowboat hiding tactics, fighting or one side forfeiting (by giving up the chase or forcefully sinking their ship).
This is in the end a PvEvP game and you will at times lose to other pirates. The weaker side is very subjective and really based on the encounter of who you meet. The ones that attack aren't always the stronger ones. I have fled from pirates, I have defended myself against them.. the suggestion that being a PVE pirate means you are weak is quite negative. PVE or PVP the better pirate should win and be able to sell the spoils.
I hate anyone running to the red sea just as much as the next guy. Its a sad way to be petty in this game but we all know loot doesn't belong to anyone and a person running to the red sea should be an option.
I will meet in the middle though. A lot of the loot goes passed the respawn wall. I'd be okay with the loot bouncing off that wall. That way you can still get the loot but you have to deal with the red sea while doing. Gives the players that are running to the red sea an avenue to counter attack and sink the ship chasing them as well if they had kegs or wanted to try and board.
However, I would enjoy a better option to the game then the current system.
Right now sailing is more "straight line" this way or that way. Theres very little in options of using terrain to your advantage. Only a few areas where you can cut through or around a rock formation. Usually its just going around in a circle. Most island sea banks are relatively high even for sloops. Only a handful of islands where you can cut with a sloop with a brig or galleon can't.
I agree and I hate the red sea but I want to leave that option open because really there isn't any other option for the player that is running away. Straight into the sea is easy to do but its boring. Hoping off and turning in is just that. I'd be good with the loot staying being blocked from hitting that respawn wall and you still had a chance fighting with the red sea while gathering your loot.
I want more options of using terrain where hitting islands or rocks will HURT the boat. Where you have to decide if you are good enough to get through the tricky pathway at full speed or if you have to go in at half mass. Where a Galleon uses the wind to catch a ship but a ship can use the sea's currents to get away, again if they can make it through the pathway.
@cotu42 Isn't the whole idea of heading into the red sea not purely spiteful to ensure that if you lose, that you make the other person lose as well and then call that a victory? Therefore the terms of victory is purely based on ensuring the other side loses, even if that means you also lose the loot? Would that not be considered a grieving intent, as your goal is not longer to claim victory it is purely about ensuring the other side loses?
Don't these two things go hand in hand though?
There is no Victory without Defeat, no Conquest, Triumph or Supremacy without Failure, Licking or Frustration.
I understand what you are saying in regards to the loot.
To counter that however, have you considered that the chasing crew could not actually entitled to anything? By this I mean who's to say that just because they chased another crew to the point of stalemate that they deserve anything in return for that.
I see the lose/lose situations like this as a fair way to end an encounter.
It's like a full on reset for both crews "Hey look we both wasted our time, fancy that, better luck next time to the both of us, least we had fun doing so" (one would hope at least).
Or am I simply dreaming this level of acceptance and peace of mind exists within this game.
There is going for the win and there is going to make sure the other just loses. They are very different things.
By your definition there is no thing as griefing. Winning and losing go together, yet if your definition is to make the other lose even at the cost of your own victory... that is not a win, it is not a reset - you even admit it is a Lose/Lose situation; that is what is called griefing, as the intent is purely vindictive and spiteful.
The chasing crew is not entitled to it, if you manage to drop off sell it for instance they also do not get any loot or if you defeat them in battle or out sail them till the point that they drop chase. They are not entitled to a win and nobody is claiming they are. Being a good sport is being graceful in defeat and victory, when you lose you shouldn't need to drag the other side down with you.
While we may be playing as fantasy pirates, it still doesn't change the fact that this is a game, and in all games, there will be Sportsmanship. To essentially destroy everything in order to ensure no one wins is one of those unsporting rules. I get it, no one likes getting stolen from, but to actively seek out destruction is stupid. If running into the red was actually hard to do, I might change my mind a bit. Yet, it isn't hard.
There is so many options one can do to deny loot without having to resort to such pathetic tactics. Drive-by sells are by far the easiest and honestly a bigger middle finger to your pursuer than driving into the red. Not only did they not get it, but you got gold and rep for it. Its a double whammy.
I wonder if there is somewhat neutral ground. What if you make the Red have two zones depending on how far out you go. Zone one would be the inner zone bordering the center of the map. This zone is aggressive in damaging the ships. It stops the main ship from going out too far. However, this zone is safe for Rowboats. Nothing stops crews from gunning it into the Red, but it adds a layer of difficulty to recover said loot by making it only row-boat accessible. This would by extension cause hardship for the chasing crew, yet still make loot reachable. The final zone would just be an end all zone that even rowboats can't cross.
In a game that allows stealing, it seems counter productive to make it so easy to simply destroy it all scorched earth style.
My point is that the treasure should be at a point where it should be able to collect it. At the current state of the game it is literally impossible.
Regarding the chase, the majority of the time people head out in a straight line. If they do not use the red sea tactic, at some point the map ends and the world forces the others to use the environment or adjust and lose. You claim that the head straight is the only true option, while that is untrue. Personally I find the straight line tactic a bad one, as it takes zero to no effort to follow suit. This extends chases far longer than they need to be and makes both ends of the chase quite boring and time consuming.
The best tactic in my views is to pick an area in which you can make the other crew work and only straighten out in times of need to make more distance to do the same in the next cluster of islands or rocks. It is far more successful in breaking the will of another crew, as they actually have to sail, adjust and deal with constant adjustments. On top of this if you are smart and capable you can gain enough distance to do drop off sells at outposts and the reapers hideout. Selling your treasure in small increments till the point that you have nothing left of value to lose.
Would I like it if more variety would be in the game to make the above more engaging and have more depth to it, yes. Yet that isn't the issue that the red sea tactic brings with it. It is simply the fact that unlike any other means of sinking it removes any cargo you have from the game world.
Why should this be a valid tactic? Why doesn't the game just when you sink by this logic just drag everything to the bottom of the seas to never be seen again? Reaching the red sea isn't difficult... having mechanics that generate lose/lose situations is just bad design.
This isn't in disagreement to what you are saying, just letting you know you CAN get to the loot. Its just really difficult. The loot generally is still in distance to hit it with a harpoon. However if the boat goes to far then you hit the repsawn wall.
I consider it a valid tactic. If a player wants to run they have the option, if they want a way to self destruct and do the "if I can't have it no one can" maneuver then I believe it to be valid. I want more options for players so that they could actually RUN with obstacles and what not except we don't have that.
Even when using islands or harpoons, if you are in a sloop and the other crew is in a Galleon and they are a good crew, the only way to get away is the straight into the wind.
There were some really good sloops I've chased as a Galleon, but because of the harpoon, any tight turn the sloop tries to do the Galleon can do as well. There aren't a lot islands where a sloop can take advantage of its small size.
With their options really limited, I think its fair for the red sea. If there was more in ways of running away and chasing then I would completely agree that the red sea run needs to be fixed.
I've gotten away from every ship that has chased me, I have caught almost every ship that has tried to run away from me. I think there are only 3 or 4 out of the thousands that got away.
However it was always the same, straight into the wind. They never really "out sailed me".
Actually now that I think about it, if this was original game, without the damage to the mast and chainshots and cursed cannon balls and anchor balls. I would completely agree that the red sea is not required.
Man I did so many sick turns and anchor maneuvers in those days. With the current state of the game, red sea is a good option.
I have tried with rowboats with harpoon... you literally get black screened and spawned out. Maybe in some occasions it is possible, but the respawn wall is reached, as a solo sloop it is literally impossible. I don't tend to chase for hours and all that, I don't encounter it a lot as frankly I don't enjoy being the pursuer for long... as most people just go into the wind or with the wind if I am on a sloop. I actually enjoy being chased more than the other way around.
If you out play the other party you can keep suit, a chase is finished when the other party gives up and even if you gain distance they can still follow. You have caught every ship that tried to run away from you and I have nearly always been able to sell anything I want when chased in a solo sloop when I choose to flee... what is your point? That you are good at sailing with your crew? I believe that the better pirates should catch up, the better pirates can also easily sell loot and it comes down to decision making and stubborn behavior with minimal mistakes. Combine straight lines with smart choices and you gain distance, you can literally sail across the map multiple times.
Have you never escaped the clutches of others? Have you ever ran away and done drop off sells? You state you catch anything in your path, but does everyone in the world catch you as well when the tables are turned? You are an experienced pirate, you believe many out on the seas can out sail you?
You believe the if I cannot have it no one can is a viable option that the game should support? That this is a 'good' option? Everyone loses is not good gameplay, frankly the attitude of "If I cannot have it no-one can" is petty and spiteful, it is childish and bad sportsmanship. People should simply learn to go straight, gain distance and do drive by sells. Creating a culture where people go "Red sea tactic is valid, it is good..." is bad for the game.
The current state of the game? It has become better in my opinion... chain shots work both ways, cursed balls work both ways, harpoons are one of the best additions to the game. It has made it more difficult and challenging, isn't that something you are stating should be expanded even more?
