Colored flags to help enhance gameplay.

I've been trying to spread the word on this also. But in a slightly different way. I'd like it to be something like how you made CoD emblems. Something like 6 layers with different emblems/shapes and a color wheel to customize your own pirate flag. It would make it feel like more "your" ship and people would remember your flag if you got screwed over by them or you dominated them. As of now, all ships are the same in terms of looks with a few exceptions(ship skins) as you stated. And I personally don't like the current ship skins except the admiral ones. Anyways, like your general idea and hope some sort of pirate flag can be added.

@lowershark48287 I definitely like the Idea of flag customization. But I think that Rare would have to have a pre-defined list of shapes you can put on it, because if you could draw your own (or god forbid upload it) there would be soooooooo many flags with dicks on them.

By Jolly I think the lads onto something!

Lads at Rare be watching this!

Keep the attention up in here and it might be sooner!

I think would be nice to add some punishment for using the wrong flag sometimes.

I mean, when you are with a blue flag and sink a ship that didn't do any harm to you and was also using friendly flag, you should get some penalty like denying the Player to use a friendly flag for some period of time (hours) and automatically assign a Red/Black flag to it. That way the flags could actually mean something.

But overall I really love the idea of flags!

@rvallez I would have to disagree on this point. I am opposed to punishing players for doing pirate-like activities, and forcing players to use a red or black flag would completely negate their use. As I said in my original post, pirates would get close flying friendly flags, then pull the ol' switcheroo once they were in close to scare the enemy into surrender. Forcing players to fly a black or red flag from afar would tie their hands. The point of flags is not to delineate friends and enemies into black and white and force them to play along, it is to give players the ability to look around and say, "Hey, there's a 50/50 chance he won't attack us outright, I am more willing to sail closer to that ship than I otherwise might."

But I mean, that 50/50 chance is already there without flags, so what's the use?

@ultimavisio I have been mulling the idea of a PvP reputation (gained for sinking ships, lost for getting sunk) to run alongside the current three PvE factions, with the top sail color changing depending on who is looking at it.

If it's a danger color flag - that crew has way more PvP rep than yours. You won't lose any PvP rep if they sink you, and they won't gain any.

If it's a neutral color flag - that crew has comparable PvP rep to yours. Min/max this is your best opportunity for PvP gains and moderate risk for losses.

If it's a safe color flag - that crew has well under your PvP rep. Big losses if you're sunk, big gains if they sink you.

Ideally you would supplement this with positive reinforcement bits; cosmetics gated by PvP rep or some such, but even in its most barebones form this system would break the ice somewhat, at least.

This game suffers greatly from a lack of information about the other players/ships, and I would love to see this addressed through some sort of "ship's log" you could consult, that would list various statistics for each crew. Spy a ship, check the log, have an idea of how you want to approach the situation.

@lowershark48287
Yeah, this would be good. I was thinking something more akin to the Forza livery, but whatever the system we should be able to at the very least customize our Jolly Roger.

@mostlyjustokay In regards to your idea, the main issue that I forsee Rare encountering with incentivising PvP by introducing reputation or other hard rewards is its implementation. How would they calculate who is going to receive the rep in the event of a 3+ship battle? How are they going to prevent players from exploiting the system in a quid pro quo fashion (I sink you, then you sink me, then I sink you again, etc...)? Finally, since the option to scuttle your ship is such an important tool (to the point that Rare has advocated its use if you are being griefed), how often are we going to see players scuttling their ship or sailing off the edge of the map simply to spite the enemy out of the rewards they would otherwise get?

@captain-arcanic I like this idea, and I know that there is a lot of community desire for a bounty system. One of the changes I might recommend is that the ship name is not immutable, just have the bounties and message board update to reflect the name (the name change could also come at a cost to the player, say around 10,000 gold, or with some other mechanic to prevent constant name switching). I like the idea of being able to see the name of the ship as a way to identify a potential foe, but I don't think that the gamertag method is necessary, simply writing the name on the side in large letters would allow players to identify ships once they came close enough to read, and provide an extra benefit to being a pirate during nighttime since visibility is reduced.

@ultimavisio Rep gained for the amount of water a cannonhole lets in, with the rep ticking back to zero on a timer after it's patched. If the ship sinks before the timer ends, you get the rep that's left.

For instance, hole punched and water starts pouring in at 10 rep/sec. Patched after five seconds. 50 rep for the ship starts counting down at 1 rep/sec. Ship survives for at least 50 seconds, no rep for the shooting boat. Ship sinks when the counter is at 32 rep, ship earns 32 rep (for that shot). If a ship scuttles before it sinks you still get some measure of rep gain even if it wasn't what you would've gotten in total. Numbers are of course arbitrary and just an example to show the principle of the mechanic.

It'll reward anybody that contributes to a boat sinking proportionately to the damage they did that sank the boat.

If people want to game it, whatevs. High PvP rep just means you're just a target for everybody with a lot to lose, reputation-wise. Maybe you'll have a fancy hat you didn't really earn but again I don't care about people's outfits.

@rvallez The use is that players currently have absolutely no idea what other ships intend, even two crews who might otherwise be friendly may avoid each other simply due to the fact that they aren't certain if the other crew will shoot on sight or not. This gives players a little bit of wiggle room to fuel player interaction beyond simply shooting everyone you see. Players who want to roleplay as "reputable" merchants can have the opportunity to sail closer to ships they might otherwise avoid if they fly a friendly flag simply so that they can save some time. Ship docked in port? Check the flag. Someone flying a friendly flag probably won't mind you coming close and docking. Yellow flag? Maybe park on the other side of the outpost.

@ultimavisio The only reason I'm not in favor of bounties is that it discourages PvP.

Someone minding their own business has another ship start a fight, but they react well defensively and sink the attacker instead of just running for it. Now the ship originally minding their own business has a bounty on their head for defending themselves, attracting more of the PvP attention they didn't want or instigate.

@mostlyjustokay I think that the bounty system you have in mind is an auto-generated one. If a bounty system wants to be engaging and fun, it needs to be player driven. Going to an outpost and listing a bounty on another pirate (which would eventually expire, should no one claim the bounty) could make for an interesting gameplay mechanic. It could even follow the target between servers, and having a message board in the outposts that lists what pirates on the server currently have bounties would likely encourage PvP. However, one of the main issues I forsee in the implementation of such a system is at what point do you decide the bounty has been fulfilled, and by who? Furthermore, what is to prevent players from intentionally sabotaging bounty hunters by scuttling their ship or abandoning the server?

@ultimavisio The reason I'm not a big fan of flags that players can switch is that it doesn't really change anything.

Incoming ship now - they're either going to be friendly or kill you; you have no idea.

Incoming ship with your system - they're either going to be friendly or kill you; you have no idea. The only thing you'll know afterwards is whether the ship lied to you or not, and I don't know how that would help.

@mostlyjustokay The point is that players may be more willing to take a gamble at communicating with an approaching ship. There could be a default flag that all ships spawn with (similar to the white one we have now) and players can have the option to switch flags in order to help shape their gameplay. It is less about implementing a set in stone system that players must abide by or suffer the consequences, and more about offering players the tools to help them guide and enhance the experience that is Sea of Thieves.

This is a good idea, and the concept is more thought out than a similar version I had. Though I believe there could be some abuse of this system. False flags, tricksters trying to use it as means to take advantage of others. Unless there is a penalty system implemented, for those not following the guide lines.

And what about that chance of the one blue flag on a sea full of black flags. This would make them a target for all those crews that don't want to do their own digging and just grief that one ship that doesn't want to fight.

I like the idea, but I am not sure this would solve the PVP vs PVE problems that people are complaining about.

Or at least give us coloured flags to help enhance aesthetics. It annoys me that I can paint my ships hull and have colourful sails but can't choose a coloured flag to match the look. :(

@ultimavisio said in Colored flags to help enhance gameplay.:

@mostlyjustokay The point is that players may be more willing to take a gamble at communicating with an approaching ship. There could be a default flag that all ships spawn with (similar to the white one we have now) and players can have the option to switch flags in order to help shape their gameplay. It is less about implementing a set in stone system that players must abide by or suffer the consequences, and more about offering players the tools to help them guide and enhance the experience that is Sea of Thieves.

I think virtually everybody will be running friendly flags and virtually nobody will believe them, and only add the risk of outright deception to the Sea of Thieves experience, which is already weighted heavily towards enabling perpetrators over victims.

@ultimavisio

Very nice idea.

It could be useful if an untrustworthy crew that chose to violate their own status flag were forced to bear a particular color for a few hours.

@rvallez

Or, make it so if you're flying the 'right' flag, you gain rep bonuses?

@mostlyjustokay That is a risk that simply has to be accepted. Even if Rare opts to simply add flavor flags, we need more customization. There could even be additional colors with other meanings, all I offer is a rough baseline that we can start brainstorming with.

@ultimavisio said in Colored flags to help enhance gameplay.:

@mostlyjustokay That is a risk that simply has to be accepted. Even if Rare opts to simply add flavor flags, we need more customization. There could even be additional colors with other meanings, all I offer is a rough baseline that we can start brainstorming with.

Who has to accept it?

I agree with needing more customization options, I just think having one of them be a sign that says "I'm A Friend I Won't Shoot I Promise" that you can take down or behave otherwise at will adds to the gameplay not only in negative ways but in the specific negative ways that are inherently difficult for this type of game design to handle.

It's already very difficult to be social in this game with a lack of information about other players. If we add information that is intentionally untrustworthy and only serves to further develop mistrust between players, you'll see more anti-social behavior.

@mostlyjustokay I am opposed to restricting player actions, particularly in a game that seems to be designed as a sandbox. That being said, it probably would not hurt to have players who fly a friendly flag be unable to cause damage to ships also flying the friendly flag. In addition, there could be a mechanic that forces you to take down your original flag, replace it, then run the new colors up. This would prevent ships from pulling up next to someone and hitting them with a broadside, the victim would be able to notice the friendly flag going down (if they were attentive) and be able to take action before the enemy raises their new flag and becomes hostile.

@ultimavisio Well that severely restricts player actions in the only arena in which player actions have consequence.

All we need to do is provide trustworthy information to players to enhance the social environment. Make the flags say whatever you want, but somewhere I need to be able to see what your "reputation" is, whether that becomes a codified reputation system or something like a "ship's log" in the captain's quarters I can check to see what the stats are for a particular ship - time in session, cannons fired this session, ships sunk this session, crew kills this session, etc.

I feel like a reputation flag is a particularly elegant solution that keeps things more immersive, but it has to be based on your actions and not what you want people to think your actions are.

The only way you're going to encourage people to play nicer together is if you give them the ability to make informed decisions based on reliable information.

@mostlyjustokay The issue with that is defining what contributes to "Good" and what contributes to "Negative" reputation. If sinking a Ship is negative, what happens to players who sink a ship in self-defense? How could Rare conceivably design an algorithm that takes into account whether or not a player was attacked before assigning the appropriate reputation?

@ultimavisio The idea is that PvP reputation isn't positive or negative, it just is.

The idea for the reputation system is that if you're pretty bad at sinking ships, people shouldn't be rewarded for picking on you.

If you're pretty good at sinking ships, people should know you're not to be trifled with.

If you like sinking ships, people should be both afraid of you and excited to try their luck.

But all of that is always going to be relative, hence the flag changing color depending on who is looking at it.

@mostlyjustokay The issue I see there is that it might incentivize people to simply fire on any ship they come across, otherwise the other ship will likely fire on them, because they are either higher, lower, or at the same tier.

You could have it so that after a certain amount of sinks, you unlock a new flag that you can purchase indicating you have X amount of ships sunk. This way it shows reputation, but does not incentivize people to seek out fights as directly as having a reputation system.