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Suggestion regarding weapon loadout - Sword + 2 guns
@worst-tdmer said in [Suggestion regarding weapon loadout - Sword + 2 guns]
So what? If everyone has 3 weapons then everyone is equal. The only difference is skill.
While skill and situational awareness are big factors, they are not way the only difference. Everyone is not equal.
I have rural internet, vs someone with fiber. Not the same.
Ping differences get worse with cross region play which many of end up with due to having friends spread across the world (Have them in NZ, EU and USA, Mexico, Middle East & SoT is how we spend our leisure time), at least one or more or will have poor ping.
There is a reason xbox and PS have their own servers as an option.
How high end your PC is gives a very different experiance, smoother game play and better graphics to see players clearer at a distance when swiminng etc.
All these makes factors impact the viability DG harder, not that the do not impact the sword either.
The meta is DG for a reason, giving everyone sword would kill the variation even further and remove the cost of DG. And for the record my crew wins 80+ of our engagements but even then there are instances where these factors determine the ourtcome of the battle independently of who wins the war.
Otherwise the winner of sword vs sword would be random. Its not.
It definitely is. Right now sword duels are a coinflip between whose block registers and who gets the first swipe.
Not even close to true, every night I fight people & run rings around in sword vs sword. I also run into other players that the reverse is true. DG seem to have the misinformed idea that only fire arms are skill based because a player got close to them and killed them in a tight enclosed space.
Even then while covering distances in the open its quite hard to impossible.
Good players have no issues baiting shots or pre-eating.
You stated previously that you did not think you are being insulting. This is a prime example. Even good players are sitting ducks in water, and if there are several DG defending the high ground you are in trouble.
while DG can use macros to get around the quick swap side of things.
Quick swap macros havent been relevant in years.
Never used them B/C I do not see the point or joy in cheating but that is clearly not the case.
Games shouldn't be balanced around bad internet or you deciding to play with people on the other side of the world or bad hardware. You are knowingly choosing to play a PvP heavy game.
The meta is DG for a reason, giving everyone sword would kill the variation even further and remove the cost of DG.
Double gun is "meta", because it's what the best players find fun and enjoyable. If they just wanted brainless wins they would spam curse balls and use swords/blowpipes/everything at their disposal. Using your logic, curse balls and bonecallers aren't "meta" because most of the best players choose to not use them.
Not even close to true, every night I fight people & run rings around in sword vs sword. I also run into other players that the reverse is true. DG seem to have the misinformed idea that only fire arms are skill based because a player got close to them and killed them in a tight enclosed space.
What you're describing doesn't sound anything like a skilled fight. A good fight is back and forth, tense moments, not just stomp or get stomped (i.e. coinflip).
It also just sounds like movement diffs and nothing actually to do with using the sword skillfully as a weapon. There are no skillful mechanics attached to swords. No parries, blocking barely works, hit registration is either non existent or way too powerful.
You stated previously that you did not think you are being insulting. This is a prime example.
That's not an insult, its just a fact. Good players know how to bait and pre-eat shots. Knowing when and how to push an enemy is a pretty basic part of most pvp games.
Even good players are sitting ducks in water, and if there are several DG defending the high ground you are in trouble.
You said "covering distances in the open", not fighting in the water. And if there are several double gunners that have nothing to do but defend against you, maybe you shouldn't have boarded. Boats should have pressure before you board specifically to avoid that situation.
Never used them B/C I do not see the point or joy in cheating but that is clearly not the case.
Even when macros were kind of a thing, most of the people that accused others were just coping. Quickswap was never a hard thing to do, and movement is such an important part of tdming.
With the new swap there is literally no reason to sprint cancel.
No... just not a good idea tho... so you are telling me i can just miss my shoots and not get punished for it? I mainly only use double gun and i dont want to see that. If you miss your shoots you get punished, you hit your shoots you get 1 kill and now you need to have good movement to avoid getting killed until you can reload and get another kill... That is what double gun is and should be... also Stop comparing sword (1 weapon) with double gun (2 weapon combo), doesnt make alot of sense
@zig-zag-ltu This could benefit us double gunners more since it would be a very strong movement buff, but honestly I really like this idea. I don't think it would break the game in any particular way and it would make the sword v db gun debate less salient. Plus, it encourages more interesting engagements.
Devs add fr
@worst-tdmer said in Suggestion regarding weapon loadout - Sword + 2 guns:
Games shouldn't be balanced around bad internet or you deciding to play with people on the other side of the world or bad hardware. You are knowingly choosing to play a PvP heavy game.
Your premise of everyone being equal is false, regardless of whether or not you think the game design should take into account factors like hardware etc. And SoT already does that for a ton of different things for this like the color blind etc Good game design should take into account these factors, and balance around them does not hurt those with good internet etc., It would be silly to have a game that requires everyone to have a ping of 50 or less to be able to enjoy it. What you are effectively saying, even if you do not mean to, is that a style of play that requires or helps disproportionally individuals with better hardware/internet should loose its main balance factor, no defense against melee. So not not going to happen.
Double gun is "meta", because it's what the best players find fun and enjoyable. If they just wanted brainless wins they would spam curse balls and use swords/blowpipes/everything at their disposal. Using your logic, curse balls and bonecallers aren't "meta" because most of the best players choose to not use them.
No its what some players find the fun and enjoyable. Burbs, Phuzzy etc all use swords and wipe out DG all the time. Last night a DG boarded my sloop. He hit me a couple of times but I dodged and healed and once I got him cornered & killed him he started complaining about sword lords etc. Two tapping someone from a distance vs having to land 4 hits up close, yet some how the latter is less skillful.
Not even close to true, every night I fight people & run rings around in sword vs sword. I also run into other players that the reverse is true. DG seem to have the misinformed idea that only fire arms are skill based because a player got close to them and killed them in a tight enclosed space.
What you're describing doesn't sound anything like a skilled fight. A good fight is back and forth, tense moments, not just stomp or get stomped (i.e. coinflip).
That not what I am describing. A close fight is back and forth. If there was not skill, then it would alway be back and forth. Not Player A consisting killing player B with the sword but losing to player C. In both scenarios the better player also gets killed on occasion but its not a50/50, more 80/20.
It also just sounds like movement diffs and nothing actually to do with using the sword skillfully as a weapon. There are no skillful mechanics attached to swords. No parries, blocking barely works, hit registration is either non existent or way too powerful.
You stated previously that you did not think you are being insulting. This is a prime example.
That's not an insult, its just a fact. Good players know how to bait and pre-eat shots. Knowing when and how to push an enemy is a pretty basic part of most pvp games.
No its insulting, you are calling people who get double tapped at a distance bad players while ignoring all the other factors that go into it.
Even good players are sitting ducks in water, and if there are several DG defending the high ground you are in trouble.
You said "covering distances in the open", not fighting in the water. And if there are several double gunners that have nothing to do but defend against you, maybe you shouldn't have boarded. Boats should have pressure before you board specifically to avoid that situation.
Again, I do do that. But sooner or later you will find yourself in the situation were baiting etc. does not work. When I said high ground I was not just talking about being on a boat. Forts/Islands etc. all do the same.
Never used them B/C I do not see the point or joy in cheating but that is clearly not the case.
Even when macros were kind of a thing, most of the people that accused others were just coping. Quickswap was never a hard thing to do, and movement is such an important part of tdming.
With the new swap there is literally no reason to sprint cancel.
Again, poor internet did make quick swap difficult and more importantly, just b/c you or I can do it does not mean someone else would not set up a macro to do it.
You can't have it both ways.
Saying that DG is skillful but Macros do not make it easier.
Saying good sword players "know how to bait and pre-eat shots." AND "There are no skillful mechanics attached to swords. No parries, blocking barely works, hit registration is either non existent or way too powerful."Fact stands, giving DG a free sword would be game breaking. At most I would agree for empty firearms to be used as a melee weapon which was significantly weaker than the sword providing the sword got a similar buff or guns got a new restriction (no auto reload/slower reload times or reloading from ammo crates being a push to hold) .
And SoT already does that for a ton of different things for this like the color blind etc
Color blind settings are not a balancing decision.
What you are effectively saying, even if you do not mean to, is that a style of play that requires or helps disproportionally individuals with better hardware/internet should loose its main balance factor, no defense against melee. So not not going to happen.
That's exactly what I'm saying. People on bad hardware shouldn't even have access to the game in my opinion. Support for Xbox One and equivalent hardware should've been dropped years ago.
And if you're playing a PvP heavy game with bad internet, you should accept the fact that you'll be at a disadvantage. We will never agree on this.
No its what some players find the fun and enjoyable. Burbs, Phuzzy etc all use swords and wipe out DG all the time. Last night a DG boarded my sloop. He hit me a couple of times but I dodged and healed and once I got him cornered & killed him he started complaining about sword lords etc. Two tapping someone from a distance vs having to land 4 hits up close, yet some how the latter is less skillful.
Blurbs and Phuzzy are no where near the best players. They don't even reach mid. Again, double gun is what the best players find fun and enjoyable.
No its insulting, you are calling people who get double tapped at a distance bad players while ignoring all the other factors that go into it.
Yes, if you think there is no way to avoid being 2 tapped at a distance, you are not a good player. You can take offense to that, but it's just silly.
It's like if I said "If you don't know basic algebra, you aren't good at math", and you getting upset at that. Again, knowing when and how to push is a very basic element of PvP, regardless of the game.
Saying that DG is skillful but Macros do not make it easier.
DG is skillful, quickswap never really was. One of the core arguments for bringing QS back has always been how easy it was to learn and do.
Saying good sword players "know how to bait and pre-eat shots." AND "There are no skillful mechanics attached to swords. No parries, blocking barely works, hit registration is either non existent or way too powerful."
Baiting and pre-eating shots is not a skill exclusive to swords. Every good player in the game knows how to do these things regardless of loadout.
Fact stands, giving DG a free sword would be game breaking.
Only because one loadout requires skill and a willingness to improve, and the other requires nothing. Put a sword in a good double gunners hand and nothing changes. Give 2 guns to a sword lord and they're useless.
@worst-tdmer said in Suggestion regarding weapon loadout - Sword + 2 guns:
That's exactly what I'm saying. People on bad hardware shouldn't even have access to the game in my opinion. Support for Xbox One and equivalent hardware should've been dropped years ago.
And if you're playing a PvP heavy game with bad internet, you should accept the fact that you'll be at a disadvantage. We will never agree on this.Ignoring half the argument is not a strength nor is my position based around the Xbox One or having the worst internet possible . All these factors are a gradient, at a certain point ping issues etc. do have an impact on game performance. The notion that anyone who is not rocking fiber internet and the latest hardware (or close to it) should not be playing is not just elitists', it is also counter productive to SoT having a decent player base.
No its what some players find the fun and enjoyable. Burbs, Phuzzy etc all use swords and wipe out DG all the time. Last night a DG boarded my sloop. He hit me a couple of times but I dodged and healed and once I got him cornered & killed him he started complaining about sword lords etc. Two tapping someone from a distance vs having to land 4 hits up close, yet some how the latter is less skillful.
Blurbs and Phuzzy are no where near the best players. They don't even reach mid. Again, double gun is what the best players find fun and enjoyable.
Blurbs would regularly wipe the floor with Alliance servers full of double gunners. To say he was not one of the best players on SoT...
Yes, if you think there is no way to avoid being 2 tapped at a distance, you are not a good player. You can take offense to that, but it's just silly.
It's like if I said "If you don't know basic algebra, you aren't good at math", and you getting upset at that. Again, knowing when and how to push is a very basic element of PvP, regardless of the game.You can get two tapped from full health even if you hit the eat button while holding a pineapple the split second you get hit. What is is like is telling someone "You don't know basic algebra and are bad a math" after they have told you told you multiple times they use advanced algebra, but think differential calculus requires a calculator to do the more complicated calculations well.
DG is skillful, told you multiple times QS never really was. One of the core arguments for bringing QS back has always been how easy it was to learn and do.
QS is a secondary skill on top of DG. It allows you to two tap someone before they can eat said pineapple, shoot back or they hit the water/ground after blundered them off a high point. The core argument for QS is that its easy for some to learn/do and the rest can use Macros.
Baiting and pre-eating shots is not a skill exclusive to swords. Every good player in the game knows how to do these things regardless of loadout.
You have made the argument in the past that is an advance of swords is the extra movement options given to them to bait shots. Pulling those off etc. require skill
Fact stands, giving DG a free sword would be game breaking.
Only because one loadout requires skill and a willingness to improve, and the other requires nothing. Put a sword in a good double gunners hand and nothing changes. Give 2 guns to a sword lord and they're useless.
Not so, I have fort good DG who switched to swords b/c I was killing them. Nothing changed. They kept heading to the ferry.
You are right about one thing. We will never agree and I also do not think you are even listening so I will be using the block.
Ignoring half the argument is not a strength nor is my position based around the Xbox One or having the worst internet possible . All these factors are a gradient, at a certain point ping issues etc. do have an impact on game performance. The notion that anyone who is not rocking fiber internet and the latest hardware (or close to it) should not be playing is not just elitists', it is also counter productive to SoT having a decent player base.
Never said you should have fiber or the latest hardware. My PC is like 7 years old and my internet is nowhere near fiber, yet I can still play at a competitive level on this and most other games.
If SoT upgraded their engine tomorrow putting me at a disadvantage, I would either quit the game or accept the disadvantage until I upgraded my setup.
Blurbs would regularly wipe the floor with Alliance servers full of double gunners. To say he was not one of the best players on SoT...
Blurbs had a hard time fighting Boxy.
You can get two tapped from full health even if you hit the eat button while holding a pineapple the split second you get hit.
There's a reason why it's called pre-eating.
What is is like is telling someone "You don't know basic algebra and are bad a math" after they have told you told you multiple times they use advanced algebra, but think differential calculus requires a calculator to do the more complicated calculations well.
Someone can tell you they're a mathematician all day, you'd never believe them if you watch them struggle with arithmetic.
QS is a secondary skill on top of DG. It allows you to two tap someone before they can eat said pineapple, shoot back or they hit the water/ground after blundered them off a high point. The core argument for QS is that its easy for some to learn/do and the rest can use Macros.
Thank you for explaining what quickswap is?
It was easy for everyone to learn and do. You shoot, swap, sprint, shoot. It was never rocket science. Vast majority of macros claims were always cope.
You have made the argument in the past that is an advance of swords is the extra movement options given to them to bait shots. Pulling those off etc. require skill
Nope, my arguments around the swords movement abilities were mainly around the lunge. I.e. boarding potential/island parkour.
Not so, I have fort good DG who switched to swords b/c I was killing them. Nothing changed. They kept heading to the ferry.
Doesn't sound like they were very good to me.
You are right about one thing. We will never agree and I also do not think you are even listening so I will be using the block.
Lol.
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