Ideas for Accommodating and Balancing PVP for Newer Players

  • TL;DR: Newer players often quit SoT due to the presence of a massive PVP skill gap between newer and older players, caused primarily by weapon variety, Hourglass mode, and Safer Seas failing to teach "High Seas" PVP skills. To fix this, I propose that stolen loot from non-Pirate Legends sell for 50% less gold and reputation. My hope is that this incentivizes alliances, reduces the likelihood of newer players being attacked by older players, increases the likelihood of older players teaching newer players on the High Seas, and helping newer players progress towards Pirate Legend status faster.


    (These are only ideas, based on my experiences of SoT, so if they suck, or if I'm wrong in my perspectives, please let me know.)

    At this time in the game, the experiences of new players in SoT can be very demoralizing, causing many to give up playing the game early on. I believe that a major reason for this has to do with PVP. At this time, I believe the skill gap between newer players and older players in SoT has never been wider. This is due not only to the significant presence of cheaters, hackers and other scoundrels on the waves, as well as the greater amount of PVP experience that older players have over newer players, like in most games, but also due to three other factors.

    Firstly, since the game's release, the choice of weaponry with which to attack another player and their ship has diversified tremendously. Newer players will naturally gravitate towards the flintlock and cutlass, and choose cannonballs over all other types of cannon ammunition. This gives older players, who are wise about the advantages that different weapons give in PVP, an advantage: older players will use chainshots, firebombs and blunderbombs more effectively, and use throwing knives and blunderbusses to kill newer players with ease. This weapon diversity, although excellent and ever-expanding, widens the gap between players who know what weapons to use when, and how to use them best, and those who don't.

    Secondly, the existence of Hourglass has also made PVP a central focus of the SoT playerbase like never before. Players now have a way to spend hours dedicated to fighting in naval and personal combat, improving their PVP skills as they do so. A glance at the SoT discord server's LFC shows me that most players now mostly crew up with other players directly, in order to do Hourglass. The Ghost and Skeleton Curses are very attractive. Newer players have nowhere near the same level of skill and experience as an Hourglass-baptized PVP veteran. Newer players that I've crewed with in the past have taken one look at an enemy ship crewed by Skeleton Curse players, and immediately wanted us to flee with our loot in terror, traumatized by past experiences of being absolutely annihilated by such seasoned PVPers.

    Thirdly and finally, Safer Seas. Rare thought Safer Seas would give newer players a chance to learn the PVE side of SoT without being utterly obliterated and massacred by older players at every turn, investing themselves in the game so they would be less likely to quit it early on. However, there's one thing - which in my opinion is absolutely essential to playing SoT - that Safer Seas does not give newer players the chance to learn before they come to High Seas.

    The High Seas mindset.

    Every experienced player on High Seas sails with some degree of fear of being attacked, ranging from mild anxiety to outright paranoia. Especially when engaging with the more lucrative PVE content in the game, or at least content that increases your visibility to the server. Experienced players regularly look over their shoulder, scan the horizon and watch their maps for Reaper's Bones emissaries, keep anchor raised and sails raised so their ship can make a speedy getaway, and always recover and sell loot as quickly as possible. Always with the knowledge that another ship can come to try and rob you of all your hard work.

    Because Safer Seas is practically a private server, newer players sail on a Sea of Thieves... without thieves. They can go where they please, taking as long as they want to recover and sell loot, with the greatest threats to themselves and their ship being Krakens, Megaladons, Skeleton Ships, and poor attempts to park their ship leading to holes they didn't notice filling their ship with water. On Safer Seas, newer players never learn any of the previously-described essential skills that older players have, and instead develop a bunch of habits that make them naive loot-piñatas for opportunistic older players.

    On High Seas, players decide to PVP with each other based on the ratio of two factors: "what are the chances that I win the fight?" and "how valuable is the loot I get out of this fight?". For the sake of simplicity, I'll call the former "Risk" and the latter "Reward". As an example, if the other ship has the Dark Adventure sails, is entirely crewed by players with Golden Skeleton curses, and just finished looting a Fort of Fortune, then fighting them is a high-risk/high-reward situation. Newer players are likely to stack loot, have little to no experience with PVP, and are more likely to make mistakes during PVP that will cost them the fight.

    Fighting a new player is a low-risk/high-reward situation. Therefore, the game is (unintentionally) designed to incentivize older players to sink and steal from newer players. The only basis I've seen for older players to not follow this incentive, is because it's immoral: "don't obliterate the noob, it's unfair.". As I am often reminded, in this game full of pirates, morality is often dictated by who has a Chest of Fortune, and who has a Golden Skeleton curse. But that's precisely the problem.

    When older players fight and steal from newer players as easily as taking candy from a baby, and when this happens consistently since the gap between the PVP skill and experience of older players and newer players is so wide that newer players struggle to climb the PVP skill-and-experience ladder, newer players can easily become disillusioned with Sea of Thieves. They learn that their time in Safer Seas, and all the skills they learnt in there, was meaningless, since they haven't a hope of protecting their loot, their ship, or even themselves. Feeling lied to by Safer Seas, and that sailing the seas only to get utterly annihilated is a waste of time, they leave the game.

    How to fix this? I believe that it comes down to the risk/reward ratio. Switch the reality of fighting and stealing from newer players from a low-risk/high-reward situation, to a low-risk/low-reward situation. Counterbalance the low risk of fighting and stealing from newer players with a low amount of reward - gold, reputation, etc. - for doing so.

    Specifically, I propose this: any loot stolen from a non-Pirate Legend can only be sold for 50% of its original gold and reputation value. This reduction would apply universally; including to the Reaper's Bones. This reduction would disappear once the player reaches Pirate Legend.

    Of course, the percentage bonus gold and reputation that players receive from selling stolen loot to the Reaper's Bones would still apply, and help to counterbalance this reduction. This would ensure that Reaper's Bones emissaries - who are supposed to seek out and destroy other ships anyway - would still have some degree of incentive to attack newer players. This, in turn, would make it slightly, yet still significantly, more likely that Reaper's Bones emissaries would attack a newer player than other emissaries would, since they would benefit more than other emissaries from doing so. As well as this, older players who, for one reason or another, do not care about the percentage reduction in gold or reputation from selling stolen loot from a non-Pirate Legend, would still engage in PVP with newer players. I speculate that these types of players would not care about the reduction in gold and reputation gained because they do not care about gaining gold or reputation in the first place.

    This would result in the majority of older players who attack newer players being A) players who care about PVP for its own sake, and not to gain gold or reputation, and B) players who act as Reaper's Bones emissaries, and therefore gain more gold and reputation than emissaries for the other trading companies. As a result, newer players would be more likely to get attacked by the same sorts of players who older players would be likely to get attacked by. This would allow newer players to gain experience on what kinds of players are likely to attack them; knowledge that will remain relevant to them even once they become Pirate Legend and/or an older player. This would also make newer players less of a loot pinata to older players: when the children find out the pinata drops mints instead of candies, they will stop opportunistically hitting it.

    Furthermore, I predict that such a change would incentivize older players to form alliances with newer players rather than sink them. Since players in an alliance receive 50% of the gold and reputation of an item being sold by another alliance member, it would be equally as profitable to form an alliance with non-Pirate Legend players as it would be to steal their loot and sell it yourself. In fact, it would be even more profitable to alliance with newer players than it would be to sink them, since the newer players would continue finding more loot to sell, giving the older players more gold and reputation overall than they would get if they sold the newer player's stolen loot one time. More alliances between older and newer players would also mean more older players helping newer players learn how to play Sea of Thieves on High Seas.

    Speaking of older players helping newer players...

    My experience of the SoT playerbase has been that when newer players join an older players' crew, the older players have little patience for the newer players' inexperience and lack of skill,
    and equally little patience to teach them. I've observed older players becoming frustrated and rude towards their newer crewmates, and often I've seen older players refuse to crew with newer players on the basis of their newness. This contributes to the game struggling to accommodate newer players, and causing them to quit early on. But I believe the solution I've outlined can help with this! Here's how:

    The 50% reduction in gold and reputation value of loot stolen from a non-Pirate Legend would still occur if the non-Pirate Legend was sailing in a crew with other players, no matter if their shipmates are non-Pirate Legend or Pirate Legend.

    I believe that this would keep the disincentive in place to other crews who would otherwise sink the non-Pirate Legend's crew, leading to the aforementioned benefits. I also predict that this would cause Pirate Legends/older players to be more interested in forming crews with non-Pirate Legends/newer players, since the newer player would shield the entire crew from being attacked. Older players forming crews with newer players would also result in older players helping newer players learn the game on High Seas. This would help newer players form friendships with older players instead of just newer ones, and making them more experienced, more skilled, and most importantly, more invested in the game, faster. I believe this would cause older players to become more receptive, more patient and more respectful towards newer players, increase the likelihood of older players to encourage non-players to become players so they could benefit off of their non-Pirate Legend status, and increase the likelihood of newer players enjoying the High Seas experience as they develop the skills and experience to sail on it solo. This would counterbalance the mistakes, slowness and general lack of skill that newer players would have with significant benefits for keeping them on a crew despite their inexperience. All of this, I predict, would make newer players less likely to quit the game early on.

    I believe that, since the older players would teach the newer players how to be on High Seas without getting easily sunk, and since newer players would be sunk less often because stealing and selling their loot would be less worthwhile, newer players would be able to sell more loot more often without as much risk of it being stolen, allowing them to rise from their status as non-Pirate Legend to Pirate Legend much faster. This would especially be true if older players included newer players on their crews, and stack Fort of the Damned or use some other highly profitable strategy, taking advantage of the benefit of the disincentive for anyone else to try and interrupt their money-making.

    I would argue that this is a good thing. Gameplay-wise, being a Pirate Legend on High Seas unlocks a variety of fashionable, fun and profitable content which newer players are locked out of. Accelerating the speed at which newer players become Pirate Legend would also ensure that older players couldn't use a newer players' non-Pirate Legend status to safely farm gold and reputation over extended periods of time. In regards to how this would make sense in the game's story, I would argue that any pirate who is willing to brave the deadly Devil's Shroud, and not only test but also stay in waters where they are under constant threat from sea monsters, living skeletons, cursed treasure, and a never-ending amount of bloodthirsty pirates looking to steal their plunder... deserve to be considered a Pirate Legend.

    Now, I acknowledge that there are some flaws in the ideas I've presented, and that they have potential to go horribly wrong.

    For instance, an older player could create a new SoT account, thereby "pretending" to be a non-Pirate Legend newer player, and then keep themselves as a non-Pirate Legend by simply leaving their crew when the time comes to sell loot. This would theoretically allow them to eternally help their friends farm gold and reputation, as well as get the drop on any pirate who mistakenly sees them as a harmless noob. Admittedly, this would make the SoT experience for such players an unrewarding experience, since they'd be earning little to no gold or reputation, and therefore never be able to access the game's cosmetic items or some of its more exclusive features. But, as I've previously mentioned, there are SoT players for whom the gameplay is intrinsically rewarding, and therefore wouldn't care about gold or reputation. I'm sure there could be a way to prevent this, but I cannot think of any such way off the top of my head. Nevertheless, the SoT playerbase has, as far as I can tell, a longstanding tradition of finding and using exploits to earn gold and reputation faster, more safely and/or more easily. These range from stack-buying supply crates/captaincy supplies/hunting spears/etc., to alliance servers. Apart from the potential exploit I've just suggested, I can confidently say that the playerbase will no doubt find other ways to exploit this proposed system. The developers would have to prepare themselves for this inevitability.

    Additionally, a clear criticism that can be made of my ideas is this: how would you truly be able to tell the difference between older players/Pirate Legends and newer players/non-Pirate Legends? After all, older players can just pretend to have the inexperience and lack of skill that newer players have, and by doing so, they would be able to convince other crews that they aren't worth stealing from. The best potential solutions I can find to overcome this problem would be by making non-Pirate Legends visually different from Pirate Legends, and ensuring that players lost access to this visual difference once they became Pirate Legend.

    This "visual difference" could be a cosmetic item or a title for the player and/or their ship; maybe a Magpie's Fortune costume and shipset, emphasizing how recently they've completed their Maiden Voyage? This would allow non-Pirate Legends to choose whether to broadcast themselves to the server as a newer player whom other players shouldn't steal from, or to conceal their non-Pirate Legend status and experience the PVP of High Seas as newer players do currently. Alternatively, this "visual difference" could be something less restrictive to a newer player's cosmetic choices, such as their in-game name tag being a unique color or having a unique icon next to it. Admittedly, this would make it much more challenging to identify from afar that another ship is being crewed by a newer player, since name tags can only be seen up close; by the time a crew might notice the newer player's name tag, PVP might already be in full swing. Both potential solutions have drawbacks, I agree. But its the best I can think of at the moment. I'm open to suggestions!

    Other criticisms I've heard from other players about my ideas include the following: "SoT is a pirate game. If you can't handle that, go play something else". Sea of Thieves is indeed a pirate game... and so much more. On High Seas, you are indeed a bloodthirsty scallywag, but you are also an adventurer, as well as a bounty hunter, as well as an explorer, and so on and so on. My experience is that older players who say this have often been subjected to the kind of PVP experience as a newer player that I outlined previously, and that this experience has embittered them. The sentiment from these players is therefore the following: Since they had to suffer and struggle in PVP as a newer player, why should the next generation of newer players get to have it any easier? After all, you only learn by failing; newer players can only improve their PVP skills if they lose and learn from those losses. If newer players aren't able to stomach losing again and again, and don't have the brains to improve, then they should just quit SoT.

    I see this sentiment as unfair, and underestimates the PVP skill gap I've previously mentioned. I've often heard the statement of "it's a pirate game" be used to justify the toxicity, mercilessness and immorality of the playerbase towards newer players. However, I would expect that even the most toxic, merciless and immoral SoT player should want this change to occur, since that way, more newer players would play the game and choose not to quit it, which would increase the number of newer players for them to prey on. These changes would specifically be aimed at helping newer players be able to get a hand onto the SoT PVP skill-and-experience ladder, incentivize older players to teach and play with newer players, and increase the speed at which newer players become Pirate Legend. I don't believe they would make SoT any less of a pirate game, and would instead only make SoT a little more accommodating and balanced to newer players.

    And here, I weigh anchor. Thank you for reading my post (although, by this point, I admit it's more of an essay than a post), and I apologize for the lengthy read. If you have any ideas or feedback on my ideas, please let me know!

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  • Making players wear certain clothes or use certain shipsets to convey that they're new is kinda taking away one of the most important parts and only real unlocks in the game, the cosmetics. Only 1 out of every 40 players is PL. Having a 97% chance of my loot being valueless would make me straight up quit the game. So I get a grade 5 emissary just to sell loot for the same price because the guy I got it off of sucked at the game? Pirate game.

  • I propose that stolen loot from non-Pirate Legends sell for 50% less gold and reputation

    That is equal on the seas. Goes against the code.
    And that be horrible.
    Some random Vet sinks a good fighting ship with ton of loot? And only getting half the reward price because they aren’t PL yet (or they refuse to) meanwhile the rookie returns to fight and steals said loot back? And gets full reward.

  • Except a lot of treasure in this game counts towards amount, not gold. For example, if I see another ship with a reaper chest and I still have a few more to turn in for my seasonal 30, I might go after them regardless of the gold it sells for. A lot of veterans don't care about gold anymore, so making treasure worth less, is kinda pointless.

  • the whole new player can defend them selves from older play stuff is only if the older player is a toxic skelly or just a toxic player as if i run into a swabbie i might do a round of killing them but then I'll say: "yo, i see y'all are new, ima help you out" and rep their boat and get them on their way. unless, they're toxic such as saying slurs and such because we all know people do that in this game, and i get removing the gold/rep from selling from them but also what if they are saying slurs or hackusating or what ever, what if they aren't actually new players theirs things as alts and cheaters. and the way to teach new players hg isn't to just be like "this is what it does" then scuttle i would do that if I'm not on a high streak or if they are like really really new we talking installed the game the day i meet them. i feel like a better way would be a more skill based match making for normal adventure but even then alts and cheaters so there isn't a good way to do what you want to do. if these new player wanted a pve experience then the should of read sot is a pvevp not just a pve or pvp game and it build character if they sink sure they might uninstall but they might go back and try and get better. if it was just oh we can't fight one another then how would they learn to fight? how would they get better? when i first started player i was a anti pvp guy i even tried alliance servers, and it got boring, so i started trying to fight, and hey now i got ghost curse and skelly curse so was it worth it? yes i saw the guys sinking me and now I'm sinking them.

  • This is silly, how often do new players/non-PLs actually have loot worth stealing for veterans?

    My experience is that older players who say this have often been subjected to the kind of PVP experience as a newer player that I outlined previously, and that this experience has embittered them.

    It inspired them to improve at the game. Older players want newer players to have that same experience. Either way the skill gap is going to hit them like a brick wall, whether it's before pirate legend or after, this is just coddling them. The skill gap is one of the major parts that make this game so good. Everyone is equal and has access to the same tools, yet some crews you run into will make you feel like a blind toddler.

    New players will quit regardless. Look at most SoT players' achievements, you'll see a pattern of them being hooked for a while, quitting for a while, coming back and getting hooked for a while etc. It's just the nature of the game, you have really good days that make you wanna play more, and really bad days that make you wanna uninstall.

    There are better ways to incentivize mentoring new players. You could have a specific Open Crew option for veterans to join/teach new players, and commendations/cosmetics to incentivize that.

  • What about experienced players sailing on a new account - they'll deny their opponents value from their loot but will gain from what they get from others.

    What about when a non-PL steals loot from another non-PL ... their road to PL just became longer ...

  • I understand the intent but I don't think i agree with it. Being robbed and sunk is a rite of passage. I agree it should be done in a none personal way and we shouldn't proactively attack newer players as much to prevent gatekeeping the community.

    Fact is anyone who already has this mindset on establishing that a player is new has the choice and personally I will often leave or help players on finding they are very new. The choice is important though. And with things like fort of fortune and fotd, they should be contested. It should not be free loot. Having to earn and defend these make them much more valuable

    And the small portion of playerbase that enjoy sinking new players. Highlighting new players in some way may just worsen this behaviour.

  • @hiradc I agree that being robbed and sunk is a natural, normal part of the Sea of Thieves, which any player new or old should expect when playing High Seas. As I've said, under this proposed scheme, newer players would still get sunk and robbed. The difference would be that they would be more likely to get attacked by the same sorts of players that older players typically get attacked by - Reaper's Bones emissaries, PVP-focused players, players who for whatever reason don't care about gold and reputation, etc. - rather than by opportunistic older players who see them as convenient, low-risk/high-reward loot pinatas. Newer players would definitely still encounter older players who would deliberately target them out of sadistic glee, but I imagine that fewer of these toxic players would be interested in doing that when the rewards for doing so aren't as worth it anymore.

    I also agree that newer players shouldn't be deliberately and proactively targeted by older players on the basis of their newness, as I agree that this is a form of gatekeeping the community. But I believe that although this is the moral stance, the majority of the playerbase still attacks newer players anyway, since the game is structured to incentivize them doing so. My proposal would alter the structure of the game itself, to reinforce the moral reason for not sinking newer players with a functional reason to not do so.

    I appreciate, and am grateful, that you are willing to help out, or at least, leave alone newer players when you find them. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the "choice" being "important". Do you mean that the choice to be moral or immoral - to demolish newer players or not to demolish them - is an important aspect of the game? Because if so, I would reiterate that the game is already designed to incentivize older players to immorally destroy newer players, since the risk-reward ratio is skewed in their favor. Under my proposed scheme, people would still have the choice to annihilate new players, its just that it would be less profitable for them to do so.

    You've pointed out an important flaw in my proposed scheme, which is that world events and some other in-game features are highly contested aspects of the game. The fact that you have to defend yourself whilst engaging with this content makes these features much more valuable, and prevents them from being used as an easy way to farm gold and reputation quickly. Under my proposed scheme, older players who crew with newer players could easily farm loot more safely than usual, reducing the overall significance and value of content like FoF and FotD; they would be turned into sources of, as you put it, "free loot".

    The only way that this problem would be minimized under my proposed scheme would be the fact that newer players would become Pirate Legend much faster, because they are earning more valuable loot much faster. However, as I pointed out in my original post, players could overcome this by using an alternate SoT account where they aren't Pirate Legend, leaving the game when the time comes to sell loot, and then switching to their main SoT account and rejoining their original crew, profiting off of the sell. As I said in my original post, I cannot think of an effective solution to overcome this problem.

    However, for the problem you identified, maybe a potential solution would be making it so that loot which a newer player/non-Pirate Legend would not typically be able to acquire solo without getting sunk in the process - Athena loot, Chests of Fortune, etc. - can be stolen and sold for its original value, even from crews with newer players on them. This would keep content like Fotd and FoF contested and challenging, and also ensure that newer players don't experience such PVE content in a way that older players wouldn't.

    I personally disagree that the portion of the playerbase that actively tries to sink players is small. As you can probably tell from the responses made to my original post, even if older players don't enjoy sinking newer players, they certainly don't appear to see it as an unfair, immoral thing. Highlighting newer players would definitely make them more obvious to older, more toxic players, but I would argue that the lack of skill and experience possessed by newer players is often highlighted by their behavior - anchoring with sails down, crashing their ship unintentionally, having wildly inaccurate cannon aim, etc. - and attitudes - their naivety, their trusting nature, etc. - especially in PVP contexts, which older players will be able to notice from afar anyway.

  • @myf1ct10n by enjoys sinking new players. I mean they enjoy feeling powerful over other people, spawn camp etc. The concept of actually deterring people from playing the game appeals to them.

    If people have loot I need its free game, I will sink anyone without remorse, I might if they handle the encounter maturely offer them the other loot than what I need etc once I've sold cof they can have rest etc
    On the other side of it, although I dont make it personal, some players dont understand that difference. In those cases its their mentality they need to work on and I won't spend much of my time trying to convince them as I've seen enough of it. Some people think attacking them without their consent amounts to toxicity, and will happily spout slurs at you feeling they are justified.

    I think it is good that youre trying to consider ways of making it a safer environment, but honestly people will find ways around any mechanics so ultimately its on us as a community to report and get rid of actual toxic players, and for rare to make a better system to do so, clearly define what falls under this etc.

  • Isn't new player loot already disincentivized by the nature of new players having mostly lower tier loot? Seems kind of redundant and prone to error to try to impose some kind of artificial calculation on top of that based solely on Pirate Legend status. You'd probably be impacting seasoned non-PLs attacking other non-PLs, which does happen a lot, more than any other group.

    You could very easily get around this by just not accepting Pirate Legend status LOL.

    I can very easily see how this system now requires a bunch of exclusions and special rules, which makes it inefficient. Simpler is better in a lot of cases.

  • I agree with MyF1CT10N's intention of accommodating and balancing PVP for newer players.

    I disagree with MyF1CT10N's idea of reducing the value of stolen loot from non-Pirate Legends. It's harder to get stolen banished skulls than non-stolen banished skulls. Harder-to-get stuff like stolen items should have higher value.

    I would prefer if those who won the fight have an easy OPTION to return some of the loot, especially if the sunk ship showed sportsmanship, was nice or was swabbie. E.g. I'm often interested in the Chest of Fortune or emissary flags only. I don't mind abandoning the rest of the loot - so I can focus on more Chests of Fortune and/or dive immediately to keep hunting emissary flags.

    I would like it if there's some easy way to return the rest of the hard-earned pve loot (skulls? captain chests? gems? crates? 0 ritual blade of souls?) to the ship we sunk.

  • @hiradc Apologies for the late response.

    I agree, there are definitely players who play SoT purely to gatekeep its playerbase from having new players join it. Although I would agree that toxic players who deliberately target newer players because winning easily makes them feel powerful, I haven't experienced a significant percentage of toxic players who do this with the goal in mind to prevent new players from joining the seas. The goals of most toxic players I've encountered seem a lot more confined to sadism, self-gratification and spitefulness, rather than any grand scheme.

    If another player has loot you want, then whether they're new or old, you are welcome to try and take it from them. However, if an older player wants loot from a newer player because selling that loot helps them progress towards a commendation or something like that, then I don't see how the gold or reputation associated with that loot should matter in this context.

    Sure, it'd be nice for a stolen Chest of Legends to be worth its original gold value, but this would result in the game incentivizing older players obliterating the newer player to steal the Chest of Legends, since the risk/reward ratio would skew massively in the favor of the older player. If an older player wanted for themselves a Chest of Legends to sell for its original gold value as well as commendation progress, then they could either steal one off another older player - a player who stands a chance in PVP against an older player - or finishing a FoF for themselves.

    However, with that being said, I recognize the problem. Newer players, or just older players using alt accounts, can farm "endgame" content in crews with Pirate Legends, to cheese earning gold and reputation. They could hypothetically stack FotD endlessly, with any other ship who tries to steal from them getting punished for doing so. Not to mention, I recognize that this kind of gameplay experience of stacking FotDs, or some other highly-profitable, highly-repeatable piece of endgame content, would not be effective at transitioning a newer player from Safer Seas to High Seas.

    Highly-profitable, highly-repeatable endgame content should remain endgame content, and therefore remain semi-exclusive to players who have at least reached Pirate Legend. It would be ridiculous for a non-Pirate Legend/newer player to go on a million voyages for Athena's Fortune with a PL crew, when they wouldn't be able to go on those kind of endgame voyages alone.

    With this in mind, I would like to make 2 changes to my initial idea proposal for accommodating newer players in High Seas, and balancing their PVP experience.

    Firstly, the 50% reduction in gold and reputation value of loot stolen from a non-Pirate Legend would disappear when a player is sailing in a crew with any other players who are Pirate Legend.

    Crews entirely consisting of non-Pirate Legends would keep their buff for being non-Pirate Legends. If even a single player on the Galleon is a Pirate Legend, the 50% reduction does not go into effect. This would allow for non-Pirate Legends/newer players to transition from sailing with their friends on Safer Seas, to sailing on High Seas, and learn the High Seas experience and develop their PVP skills alongside fellow newer players. This would also prevent newer players from being forced to transition from playing on a Galleon with newer-player friends on Safer Seas, to solo-slooping on High Seas. The difference in the gameplay experience of playing on a Galleon with a 4-player crew working together, and playing on a Sloop alone, is night and day. I do not think it's fair for newer players to be excluded from that experience, even with the PVP advantages that come with a bigger ship, using more cannons for damage and more sails for speed.

    It would also make it harder for players with alt accounts to swap accounts, since all members of the crew would have to swap to alt accounts to benefit off the the 50% reduction, and then all members of the crew would have to swap back to their main accounts to benefit off the sale of loot later on. Granted, its still doable, it would just be harder. I still can think of have no true solution to preventing alt accounts from abusing my proposed ideas; this is definitely a reason I would agree with for why my ideas ultimately fails, at least, until a way is found to prevent people from abusing alt accounts.

    Secondly, certain types of stolen loot will not have the 50% reduction on value applied to them.

    This would include: loot of an exceptionally high gold value, such as Orb of Secrets and Banished Skulls; loot which can be considered "endgame" loot, such as the Blade of Souls and Athena's Fortune loot; loot of an exceptionally high non-gold value, such as Chest of Fortune.

    As a rule of thumb, any loot that a non-Pirate Legend would not be able to acquire from the voyage quests they have access to, would be loot that would not have the 50% reduction.

    This would ensure that especially valuable loot would remain valuable to steal, and this would teach newer players that such loot makes them more of a target (which would be knowledge that would remain relevant once they're an older player/Pirate Legend). These changes would ensure that new players couldn't waltz through endgame content of the game before they've even reached Pirate Legend, which would be silly.

    I agree with you, many players, especially newer players, definitely take having their loot stolen, or just the PVP aspect of the game in general, VERY personally. Regardless of how frequently it happens. I understand and sympathize with the frustrations of all players who feel that all their time, effort and hard work is wasted when their loot gets stolen from them. Nevertheless, I agree with you that, however painful, this is a core aspect of the game, that I do not believe needs to nor should be changed. Non-consensually stealing the fruits of the labors of others is central to piracy, in every context.

    I would argue that Rare has not done a very good job of making the PVP and stealing aspects of this game very clear in their promotional material in recent years, and as a result, many newer players enter Sea of Thieves with false expectations. But regardless, part of the transition for players going from being new to being old, is accepting that failure is a natural part of this game. I consider this to be a part of learning the High Seas mindset. Sometimes, players will try to steal from you. Sometimes, you will not get to profit from all your hard work. It's disheartening when it happens, but nonetheless, it is what makes Sea of Thieves... a pirate game. If you had to consent every time someone wanted to steal from you, then it honestly couldn't be considered "stealing" anymore. Players who find that unacceptable, I've noticed, are the most likely to become toxic.

    Not for a second do I believe that this reality makes my proposed idea redundant. I still believe my proposed idea is meant to balance the PVP scales for newer players, and make the game more accommodating for them, within the current PVP paradigm.

    @Raft2c7c I do not think giving older players the option to "give back" loot they stole from a newer player they annihilated, would offer the same benefits as my proposed idea. In my experience, if an older player only want one or two pieces of loot from a newer player's treasure, then they can try and communicate to negotiate for it. If that fails, and saber-rattling has no effect, then they let the cannonballs fly, and let the opportunity to negotiate for the safety of the newer player's loot fade away. Personally, I think the time for crews to be bargaining with each other tends to, and should, reach a permanent end once one vessel is sunk and its crew is dead. Additionally, I fear it would set a bad precedent for newer players, if they learned that they could just get most of their loot back later anyway, causing them to defend their loot a lot less seriously. It would teach that getting sunk doesn't mean failure. Besides, if you're just gonna give back loot you stole anyway, then what was the point in stealing it in the first place?

    @D3ADST1CK No, I believe that the high likelihood of a newer player having mostly low-value loot is not enough of a disincentive. If my time on the High Seas has taught me anything, it is that there is no level of cunning nor depravity to which a pirate will not sink, to satiate their insatiable greed. Low-tier loot, high-tier loot, doesn't matter; on the Sea of Thieves, pirates will find a reason to commit piracy. Older players will still seek out and utterly obliterate newer players, whether they do it out of sheer greed, to increase their emissary flag's levels by stealing the loot, or for no other reason than to raid the barrels bobbing in the water where the ship sunk for supplies.

    I've met players - toxic players, but players all the same - who have chased me from one side of the map to the other when I was still clearly a SWABBIE, on the mere thought that somewhere on my ship I was hiding something that might be worth something. I'm sure that if it was a game mechanic, some players would gladly chop off the arms and legs of their crewmates, steal the eyeballs from their faces, and sell them all to the Hunter's Call as "miscellaneous meat"... if doing so earned them 45 gold total. I do not believe the concepts I've proposed are redundant due to the current nature of the game and its playerbase. Quite the contrary, in fact.

    I acknowledge and agree that my ideas would change the game in quite significant ways, and so would probably be very difficult to program into the game, and that errors may easily arise from coding that would give way to more exploits. I also agree that the "special rules" I've described in this post would definitely make my proposed idea more complex and less efficient. However, I'm afraid I don't see any other way but to create exceptions for exceptional types of loot, in order to prevent exploits. If you have any thoughts on more streamlined approaches, I'd welcome you to share them.

    And I agree, non-Pirate Legends who have a lot of experience with PVP would have a clear advantage over non-Pirate Legends who don't. However, I see this as an opportunity for newer players to improve their PVP skills by working on crews who have already learnt it. Furthermore, unless a player is swapping between alt accounts and main accounts, I would assume that non-Pirate Legends who become better at PVP would be able to win fights and sell stolen loot more often, progressing them towards Pirate Legend status faster? Or is my assumption wrong?

    I do not believe it is possible to "not accept" Pirate Legend status. As far as I know, if you achieve the correct rankings in certain trading companies, you become a Pirate Legend. Whether you want to be one or not. If you have simpler ideas, which provide more benefits and have fewer drawbacks, than the ones I've proposed, I'd be interested in hearing them. As I said in my original post, I am open to suggestions.

  • @myf1ct10n said in Ideas for Accommodating and Balancing PVP for Newer Players:

    I've met players - toxic players, but players all the same - who have chased me from one side of the map to the other when I was still clearly a SWABBIE, on the mere thought that somewhere on my ship I was hiding something that might be worth something.

    This right here kind of invalidates your entire idea. If players are going to chase you with the possibility of having nothing for them to gain, then having possibly 'less than before' isn't going to change anything. They will still believe you have 'something', even if you don't, and therefore behaviour won't be modified at all.

    And I agree, non-Pirate Legends who have a lot of experience with PVP would have a clear advantage over non-Pirate Legends who don't. However, I see this as an opportunity for newer players to improve their PVP skills by working on crews who have already learnt it. Furthermore, unless a player is swapping between alt accounts and main accounts, I would assume that non-Pirate Legends who become better at PVP would be able to win fights and sell stolen loot more often, progressing them towards Pirate Legend status faster? Or is my assumption wrong?

    I do not believe it is possible to "not accept" Pirate Legend status. As far as I know, if you achieve the correct rankings in certain trading companies, you become a Pirate Legend. Whether you want to be one or not. If you have simpler ideas, which provide more benefits and have fewer drawbacks, than the ones I've proposed, I'd be interested in hearing them. As I said in my original post, I am open to suggestions.

    I'm pretty sure you need to speak with the Mysterious Stranger and accept the shanty in order to unlock Pirate Legend status and gain access to the hideout. This also only works if you have actually upgraded to the level 50 promotion in 3 different trading companies. Both of these steps are completely avoidable, meaning you can just not do it if you wanted to.

    With your proposed system and the upcoming "Pirate Profiles" feature which allows you to just start over on the same account (and the ability to create alt accounts and share the game) then bad faith players, which are going to be your main target with these changes, can just completely sidestep the negatives.

  • @myf1ct10n said in Ideas for Accommodating and Balancing PVP for Newer Players:

    @Raft2c7c I do not think giving older players the option to "give back" loot they stole from a newer player they annihilated, would offer the same benefits as my proposed idea. In my experience, if an older player only want one or two pieces of loot from a newer player's treasure, then they can try and communicate to negotiate for it. If that fails, and saber-rattling has no effect, then they let the cannonballs fly, and let the opportunity to negotiate for the safety of the newer player's loot fade away. Personally, I think the time for crews to be bargaining with each other tends to, and should, reach a permanent end once one vessel is sunk and its crew is dead. Additionally, I fear it would set a bad precedent for newer players, if they learned that they could just get most of their loot back later anyway, causing them to defend their loot a lot less seriously. It would teach that getting sunk doesn't mean failure. Besides, if you're just gonna give back loot you stole anyway, then what was the point in stealing it in the first place?

    I'm not interested in swabbie loot. I don't care about their 20 marauder chests or random crates. But these swabbies care a lot about them.
    I'm interested in their flag and supplies, and Chest of Fortune or Chest of Legends. But they don't usually have these loot if they're swabbies.
    There's no bargaining possible, because I need to sink their ship to get their flag. And then I'm off.

    When the swabbies sink, they feel disappointed. They lost everything from their past 1 hour of effort.
    But if they swabbies can get back their loot, they might feel consoled.
    Even with my suggestion (an easy way to return loot optionally) in place, due to the lost flag, they would still lose 2/3 the gold/reputational value of their treasures. So there is still that sense of loss.
    And there is also the risk that the crew might not return the loot (e.g. if it's another swabbie crew, or someone who's just greedy for all loot).

    I used to sail with randoms more often. Some of the random kids I've played with, after respawning their ship, they'd go back for whatever is left behind at forts. They're happy to get something, even if the coordinated experienced pvp pros took the main loot / Chest of Fortune.

    In the case of forts, some experienced crews leave some loot behind for them.
    In the case of open water fights, experienced crews can't leave loot behind for them. Treasures sink too fast.

  • @raft2c7c I see your point. It would be less devastating for a swabbie to lose everything and then have to start from scratch, when the older player attacking them is only interested in any emissary flags, supplies, or endgame-tier loot they might have. Bargaining for supplies might be possible with the right supply crates, but as you said, an emissary flag cannot be bargained for. I agree, there would be a sense of loss if their emissary flag was gone - even if that loss wasn't as tangible as all their physical treasure being gone. And crews might choose not to return the loot, that's true.

    However, I am struggling to come up with a convenient in-game mechanic which could allow players who sunk the newer players can choose to let the newer player keep their loot and nothing else. At the same time, I would also reiterate my previous post in saying that, although this would be a compassionate feature for newer players, it wouldn't do as much to prepare them for being an older player by teaching them the skills or the mindset which older players have in the game currently. I think that defending your ship from attacks is so important in SoT precisely because you have the chance to lose EVERYTHING you have, not just the chance to lose most of what you have.

    The difference here, as I see it, is probabilities and guarantees. The guarantee of losing everything, while demoralizing, radically increases the incentive for players, new and old, to sail the High Seas with far more caution and suspicion of fellow pirates, as well as become competent at PVP to defend themselves. If there was only a probability that you lost everything, then there wouldn't be as much of an incentive for newer players to sail the High Seas with caution, suspicion and PVP-competence. Similarly, my ideas propose a guarantee for older players stealing from newer players that the loot they are stealing is of such low value that it isn't worth stealing, rather than merely a probability that it is of such low value that it isn't worth stealing.

    Furthermore, I would repeat the sentiment of my previous post in saying that sinking another ship and killing all their crew, just to collect one or two of their high-value chests, their emissary flag and their supplies, and then give back all the rest of their treasure, isn't very "piratey". Besides, as I would say to @D3ADST1CK , although I agree that newer players often only have lower-tier loot, I would still assert that whether a newer player has loot that's worth stealing or not is at the discretion of the player in the position to steal it, regardless of whether that loot is lower-tier or not. As I described in my original post, by guaranteeing to older players that stealing from newer players is a low-risk/low-reward situation, rather than only making it a probability, this should work as a disincentive. I would compare it to the Megalodon and Skeleton Camp world events that spawn. Compared to other world events, these are relatively low-risk/low-reward, and as a result, in my experience, older players prefer to overlook annihilating these world events in favor of engaging with content that can guarantee them high-rewards. This is why I believe that the idea I'm proposing would be effective at modifying behavior, and be accommodating newer players.

    Still, I do appreciate that you, @Raft2c7c , are making suggestions of alternative ideas to the ones I'm proposing, to try and arrive at ideas that would make the newer player experience in Sea of Thieves more accommodating, and make their PVP experience less soul-crushing. If you have any other ideas, please do let me know!

  • The game has a disconnect from the early stages to the late stages that plays a major role in this - that is perceived value. The perception of value to a new player who starts with little gold to their name and a lot of rep they need to build with a load of factions plus all the unlocks still being locked is not the same as the perception of value to a vet who has loads of stuff unlocked and lots of gold and rep gained already. This is why many vets have reached a point where they don't get as salty if they lose out on a haul because they have advanced to a point where that doesn't feel nearly as big of a deal.

    That said, I do think the process could shift a little bit to help with newer pirates not feeling as demoralized by the process in that early phase. For that, I think you need two things only for the most part: more loose gold available during the course of a voyage, and rep bumps for completing bits of the voyage. Selling can still be worth what it is today on top of all this so that selling remains the best way towards progress but we lessen the sting of the loss some by making sure there was still progress being made throughout the Voyage that was being done.

    This doesn't even have to be too intense either, spawning some piles of gold like exist already in some places, bags of coins could drop from some enemies, more chances for collector chests that hold coins in them alongside some loot. And small little rep bumps to the faction the Voyage belongs to for completing the tasks at hand to uncover the loot that will be up for grabs as well (ex, taking a wave of skellies out on bounty, digging up items on X Mark, etc). These don't have to be massive bumps mind you, but also not so insignificant that it doesn't lessen the burn.

    This, I feel, would do better than penalizing people for attacking new players (which they may not have known when they made the choice to do so - nothing in this game automatically tells someone you are new). It is something that helps push those new players past that pain stage of feeling like it is all insurmountable and to the stage where a loss doesn't hurt nearly as bad a little faster and makes those early losses hurt a little less cause you still got some stuff done during your investment.

    You could even put some limits on it if people are too concerned that it pushes people too quickly. For instance, maybe we balance it so that the bonus stuff you'll get during the Voyage (gold and rep) is 25% of the bonus you could obtain doing the Voyage and handing in under an Emissary. Then let's add in the caveat of Voyages do not produce these bonuses when you have an Emissary flag of any kind raised. This makes it overall more desirable to use the Emissary (more potential for progress plus the Emissary Voyage) but it comes with a bigger risk (more likely to lose it all if you sink). This effectively gives newer players the benefit, as well as the PvE only crowd, because they will now get a bit for their work under the lower risk banner while still remaining at risk (cause that loot is valuable to those running Emissary and the bonus that will give to the loot). And then when they get up enough to sail for an Emissary the little warning toast could explain this when you go to raise it.

    Don't get me wrong, I never had this hangup myself because I play the game because I enjoy the game and not to watch numbers go up more, but I also accept that this is a basic psychological effect that the vast majority of people experience and that can be demoralizing. I'd rather people be nudged along to the point where the loss hurts less and hopefully stick around rather than be driven off. So I'm not opposed to throwing a bone here and making a lower risk style come with some general guarantees, but incentives existing to encourage people to go for more risks for the potential of more rewards. Sort of trying to help people get on board with the intended formula by throwing them a bone up front. And for those who will never go the bigger risk route, they still feel like they make a little better progress than they do today which might keep them around and help keep the seas diverse in population.

    I dunno. That is just how I see it for what it is worth.

  • @redeyesith

    I agree with you, my experience has also been that older players definitely tend to perceive loot as less valuable than newer players. It's therefore more devastating and demoralizing for a newer player to have their hard work stolen than it is for an older player.

    I'm not sure I agree with the idea of loose gold and reputation bumps being made available during the course of their voyage. Sure, we get bags of gold in the Sea Forts as we do them and so on, and so it's possible for that mechanic to be implemented elsewhere in the game. But in my view, even to a newer player, such amounts of gold and reputation bumps would always feel too small and not as rewarding, when it is compared to the magnitude and reward of selling larger, more tangible loot. I therefore don't believe that this would lessen the sting of losing loot as much as you might imagine, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe progression in the game would feel less insurmountable with such incremental progress being made all the time. I'd be open to having this idea implemented along with what I proposed previously.

    Also, I worry that such reputation and gold boosts would fundamentally change how newer players would play the game: aiming to reach certain points where gold and reputation boosts were guaranteed, almost like they were "checkpoints". Whether that would change the game for the better or not, I'm not sure; only that it'd be a big change. However, I do think your idea of introducing it with the limits you suggested, could work; making it attractive both for newer players and for the PvE crowd.

    You are right, apart from behavioral indicators - for example, having your ship parked at an island with sails down and anchor lowered - it's almost impossible to distinguish a newer player from an older player, or a newer player from an older player using an alt account to pretend to be a newer player. Therefore, as my proposed ideas stand currently, it'd be impossible to tell in advance if you would get penalized for stealing and selling another player's loot or not.

    Due to this, I propose some alterations to my original idea: the Magpie's Wing flag. A large, distinctive flag, which newer players - and only newer players - can equip to their ship. This flag would automatically and irrecoverably disappear from a player's flag inventory once they reach Pirate Legend. This flag would occupy the same region in the player's flag inventory as, and operate in a similar way to, the Offer Alliance flag. The Magpie's Wing flag would be silhouetted and visible even from a distance, just like the Emissary flags are.

    This would allow players everywhere to see that the newer player is a non-Pirate Legend, and therefore avoid attacking them to steal and sell their loot for profit. However, this flag would also signal to any player who doesn't care about loot for profit, that the ship with the Magpie's Wing flag has newer players on it, and therefore are easy pickings. So, flying the Magpie's Wing flag would have both its risks and its rewards.

    When a non-Pirate Legend chooses to raise this flag, with certain exceptions, all loot stolen from them loses 50% of its original value. This would allow for newer players to choose between experiencing High Seas either as newer players do currently, or with the proposed desensitize advantage. Loot which wouldn't have the 50% reduction applied to it would include any "endgame" loot, which would include loot of a tremendously high value, or loot which only a Pirate Legend would be expected to acquire: Athena's Fortune loot, Orbs of Secrets, Chests of Fortune, Reaper's Chests, etcetera.

    Another alteration to my original idea would be that, once the total value of the loot on board of a ship is worth equal to or more than 50,000 gold, the Magpie's Wing flag is automatically lowered, and becomes inaccessible in the player's flag inventory until the loot on board the ship becomes worth less than 50,000 gold. This alteration would specifically be to desensitize older players from using alt accounts to pretend to be a newer player/non-Pirate Legend, raise the Magpie's Wing flag on their ship, stack loot infinitely on board under the protection of the flag, and then switch accounts to their main account when the time comes to sell the loot. (Admittedly, this alteration to my original idea could be challenging to code into the game, but I thought I'd suggest it nonetheless.)

    Furthermore, this alteration would also disincentivize newer players from stacking loot in High Seas; a habit they may have learned when they were sailing on Safer Seas, where there weren't any thieves around who might steal their loot. I predict this would also encourage newer players to learn the skill of selling their loot often, as well as reduce the likelihood of them becoming too discouraged if they get attacked and sunk, since they wouldn't have lost an outrageous amount of loot. Potentially, the idea of the 50,000 gold limit on the Magpie's Wing flag could make the idea of the Magpie's Wing flag loot-value-reduction not applying to extraordinarily high-value loot - Athena's Fortune loot, Chest of Fortune, etcetera - redundant. Let me know if you guys agree.

    Another potential idea I had was that, when a non-Pirate Legend chooses to raise the Magpie's Wing flag, they would be unable to raise an Emissary flag. This would prevent non-Pirate Legends from amassing an enormous amount of gold and reputation too easily; plus, Emissaries can be seen on the map by Reaper's Bones players, and would therefore be easier for Reaper's Bones players to target. I haven't completely thought out this particular idea yet, so I'm not too confident in it. Let me know if you guys think it has any merit.

    Of course, to keep their Magpie's Wing flag forever, a player could simply just never interact with George/The Mysterious Stranger and accept their Pirate Legend status. Therefore, for my proposed ideas to work, how players receive Pirate Legend status would have to change. Players would have to automatically receive Pirate Legend status once they reach reputation level 50 in 3 Trading Companies. Either that, or the Magpie's Wing flag disappears from a newer player's flag inventory once they become ELLIGEBLE for Pirate Legend status, rather than once they have Pirate Legend status. Either one could work, I think. Let me know what you guys think.

  • @myf1ct10n said in Ideas for Accommodating and Balancing PVP for Newer Players:

    @redeyesith

    I agree with you, my experience has also been that older players definitely tend to perceive loot as less valuable than newer players. It's therefore more devastating and demoralizing for a newer player to have their hard work stolen than it is for an older player.

    I'm not sure I agree with the idea of loose gold and reputation bumps being made available during the course of their voyage. Sure, we get bags of gold in the Sea Forts as we do them and so on, and so it's possible for that mechanic to be implemented elsewhere in the game. But in my view, even to a newer player, such amounts of gold and reputation bumps would always feel too small and not as rewarding, when it is compared to the magnitude and reward of selling larger, more tangible loot. I therefore don't believe that this would lessen the sting of losing loot as much as you might imagine, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe progression in the game would feel less insurmountable with such incremental progress being made all the time. I'd be open to having this idea implemented along with what I proposed previously.

    The reason why things tend to sting so much for people is because the stakes are effectively "all or nothing" with the majority of the content in the game. It seems fairly simple, in comparison to what you have proposed as you will go on to admit in your description, to take the sum total value of a Voyage and have that total be split up not just in different treasure items that must be sold all or nothing, but to also have some of that value be drip fed by providing some of the value as loose gold (coin pouches probably in many cases) that can be collected on the spot (once you have gold no one can steal that from you) and a bit of the total reputation value for the location of the items. This could easily be 25% of the total value for both equations and significantly reduce the pains of losing out on the sale. Before when you were sunk you now had 0 progress made by your perception of it, now you should have around 25% of what you would have gotten had you finished off the process.

    This won't work for anyone who strictly wants a PvE only experience of course, but that shouldn't be the focus since the game is PvPvE and that is the primary crowd that should be focused on (as opposed to the strictly PvP or PvE only crowds - hint this is why Hourglass isn't a perfect PvP only Mode just like Safer Seas isn't a perfect PvE only Mode, they both feature compromise). It should work for those who do ok with PvPvE but struggle with an "all or nothing" situation that would demoralize them.

    Also, I worry that such reputation and gold boosts would fundamentally change how newer players would play the game: aiming to reach certain points where gold and reputation boosts were guaranteed, almost like they were "checkpoints". Whether that would change the game for the better or not, I'm not sure; only that it'd be a big change. However, I do think your idea of introducing it with the limits you suggested, could work; making it attractive both for newer players and for the PvE crowd.

    I'm not sure how if you simply set it all up the most straightforward way possible as I have now outlined above. You just play the game as you normally have been, it just isn't all or nothing anymore when you get attacked cause you have made progress from engaging with the task you were already doing as you did it. Again, probably not attractive to the PvE crowd but that isn't the focus anyways as we don't need our focus on the extremes for what the game is designed to be. PvPvE crowds do in fact exist.

    You are right, apart from behavioral indicators - for example, having your ship parked at an island with sails down and anchor lowered - it's almost impossible to distinguish a newer player from an older player, or a newer player from an older player using an alt account to pretend to be a newer player. Therefore, as my proposed ideas stand currently, it'd be impossible to tell in advance if you would get penalized for stealing and selling another player's loot or not.

    Behavioral indicators are not reliable either. I could go on and do any of that right now in a session without even making an alt. In fact I've had encounters where skilled players do this to bait in prey as they play because they enjoy the thrill of the PvP and like to also get people who are looking for easy prey by trying to target based on these supposed indicators.

    Due to this, I propose some alterations to my original idea: the Magpie's Wing flag. A large, distinctive flag, which newer players - and only newer players - can equip to their ship. This flag would automatically and irrecoverably disappear from a player's flag inventory once they reach Pirate Legend. This flag would occupy the same region in the player's flag inventory as, and operate in a similar way to, the Offer Alliance flag. The Magpie's Wing flag would be silhouetted and visible even from a distance, just like the Emissary flags are.

    This would allow players everywhere to see that the newer player is a non-Pirate Legend, and therefore avoid attacking them to steal and sell their loot for profit. However, this flag would also signal to any player who doesn't care about loot for profit, that the ship with the Magpie's Wing flag has newer players on it, and therefore are easy pickings. So, flying the Magpie's Wing flag would have both its risks and its rewards.

    When a non-Pirate Legend chooses to raise this flag, with certain exceptions, all loot stolen from them loses 50% of its original value. This would allow for newer players to choose between experiencing High Seas either as newer players do currently, or with the proposed desensitize advantage. Loot which wouldn't have the 50% reduction applied to it would include any "endgame" loot, which would include loot of a tremendously high value, or loot which only a Pirate Legend would be expected to acquire: Athena's Fortune loot, Orbs of Secrets, Chests of Fortune, Reaper's Chests, etcetera.

    Another alteration to my original idea would be that, once the total value of the loot on board of a ship is worth equal to or more than 50,000 gold, the Magpie's Wing flag is automatically lowered, and becomes inaccessible in the player's flag inventory until the loot on board the ship becomes worth less than 50,000 gold. This alteration would specifically be to desensitize older players from using alt accounts to pretend to be a newer player/non-Pirate Legend, raise the Magpie's Wing flag on their ship, stack loot infinitely on board under the protection of the flag, and then switch accounts to their main account when the time comes to sell the loot. (Admittedly, this alteration to my original idea could be challenging to code into the game, but I thought I'd suggest it nonetheless.)

    Furthermore, this alteration would also disincentivize newer players from stacking loot in High Seas; a habit they may have learned when they were sailing on Safer Seas, where there weren't any thieves around who might steal their loot. I predict this would also encourage newer players to learn the skill of selling their loot often, as well as reduce the likelihood of them becoming too discouraged if they get attacked and sunk, since they wouldn't have lost an outrageous amount of loot. Potentially, the idea of the 50,000 gold limit on the Magpie's Wing flag could make the idea of the Magpie's Wing flag loot-value-reduction not applying to extraordinarily high-value loot - Athena's Fortune loot, Chest of Fortune, etcetera - redundant. Let me know if you guys agree.

    Another potential idea I had was that, when a non-Pirate Legend chooses to raise the Magpie's Wing flag, they would be unable to raise an Emissary flag. This would prevent non-Pirate Legends from amassing an enormous amount of gold and reputation too easily; plus, Emissaries can be seen on the map by Reaper's Bones players, and would therefore be easier for Reaper's Bones players to target. I haven't completely thought out this particular idea yet, so I'm not too confident in it. Let me know if you guys think it has any merit.

    Of course, to keep their Magpie's Wing flag forever, a player could simply just never interact with George/The Mysterious Stranger and accept their Pirate Legend status. Therefore, for my proposed ideas to work, how players receive Pirate Legend status would have to change. Players would have to automatically receive Pirate Legend status once they reach reputation level 50 in 3 Trading Companies. Either that, or the Magpie's Wing flag disappears from a newer player's flag inventory once they become ELLIGEBLE for Pirate Legend status, rather than once they have Pirate Legend status. Either one could work, I think. Let me know what you guys think.

    And this is where we get to the issues again. The idea you propose is very convoluted and complicated from a development standpoint and leaves a lot of potential edge cases that would need to be addressed as well which you go into some. All that is again, just to say, more complicated than the actual benefit it would provide to the overall ecosystem of the game. SoT in general tends to be a very simplistic game when it comes to any of the individual systems in it, the complexity we get arises out of how these systems interact in conjunction with the others and how the players make use of them in a very sandbox way.

    That is why it would, in my opinion, but better to go with something very simplistic in how it works that will have the broadest possible impact on the target demographic for the game.

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