I love meeting new people on this platform. Unfortunately, we open ourselves to the public when we create an open crew. This is great, but if we don't have the ability to kick players who's only interest is in sabotaging the boat they spawn on, then our only option is to quit out. Most of the time this is not a problem, but I'm sure all of you have gotten to the point where many of you only play with players you get to know. In the spirit of continuing to meet new people and create healthy boating experiences without alienating new players, it is in all of our best interest to be able to kick a new crew member if they actively destroy the ship and try to keep crew members from repairing the boat. You can't directly harm crew mates, which is how we all like it, but we also need to be able to kick players who don't follow rules of conduct for our ship. This would be one of the best additions to the game that I see. I have other suggestions that would make game play much more interesting, but I will keep that for another post :)
Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.
@lockablesiren26
No.Imagine, if you will:
- You join an Open Crew.
- You play for an hour, maybe 2 hours. Stacking treasure, defending it, etc.
- The ship starts to sail to an outpost.
- The Captain then kicks you so h is friend can log in, join, and get all the treasure for 0 of the effort.
- Meanwhile, you get 0 treasure for the 1-2 hours you just spent with that crew.
It's not your boat. You always have the option of creating your own crew. Without this option, you can collect all the treasure you want, but you will never want to create an open crew by doing so, especially as a sloop. The odds that someone is going to kick you because you are productive member is not likely. It's their boat. It's like not being able to kick someone out of your house. You don't need a reason.
@lockablesiren26 said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
It's not your boat. You always have the option of creating your own crew. Without this option, you can collect all the treasure you want, but you will never want to create an open crew by doing so, especially as a sloop. The odds that someone is going to kick you because you are productive member is not likely. It's their boat. It's like not being able to kick someone out of your house. You don't need a reason.
The devs have decided otherwise.
See the Pirate Code: All Pirates Are Equal.
This means there is no 'captain' to kick others at-will.And the odds are very likely that someone would kick you, a complete stranger, to let his friend, someone he knows and likes, get a share of the treasure.
You being a productive member or not does not factor in. All that factors in is 'I can let my friend gain'.
Because that's how people be.Greed is the primary function of this game. That is why it is played the way it is. If the devs don't change it, then it will attract less players. The odds that you don't get to share in treasure are not as likely, from my experience, than getting someone who doesn't want to play with the captain's objectives. If you want to do specific missions, sail your own boat. You don't get to choose anything as a crew member, only agree on missions.
If the devs don't change it, then it will attract less players.
Everyone says this about every idea, in an attempt to scare the devs into doing what they want.
- People who want to nerf or remove running?
Devs will lose players/game will die if they don't do it. - People who want to bring Arena back?
Game will die if the devs don't do it RIGHT NOW! - Captains should be able to kick anyone?
Game will lose players if this is not implemented ASAP.
Etc. Etc.
It's always 'Do what I want or your game will die.'The odds that you don't get to share in treasure are not as likely, from my experience, than getting someone who doesn't want to play with the captain's objectives.
The reason the odds are not as likely in your experience is BECAUSE captains can't kick you for no reason at the moment.
You can't point to something that's not in the game and say 'It won't be abused if added because it's not abused right now!'- People who want to nerf or remove running?
@lockablesiren26 said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
Greed is the primary function of this game. That is why it is played the way it is. If the devs don't change it, then it will attract less players. The odds that you don't get to share in treasure are not as likely, from my experience, than getting someone who doesn't want to play with the captain's objectives. If you want to do specific missions, sail your own boat. You don't get to choose anything as a crew member, only agree on missions.
Not unlikely at all.
If we had the option to kick toxic players from open crew, I would actually have a reason to play open crew. The last time I played open crew I got a guy who made endless jokes about minorities and trans people and even said racial slurs. The fact that I cannot kick people like that, who can just be openly toxic and evil individuals, makes me never ever ever ever want to touch open crew. I play with people I meet in this game all the time. My AHG duos partner is someone I met at random playing in high seas, and we had great chemistry right off the hop. I would love to meet more amazing people in this game and I know open crew is a great way to find them, but there is more negatives to playing with open crew than any positives could ever outweigh.
@lockablesiren26 I have gotten more people in open crew who drop my treasure and supps off the boat or shout racial slurs than people who actually helped me accomplish anything. The only thing open crew is to most players is the button you accidentally click on sometimes.
In the spirit of continuing to meet new people and create healthy boating experiences without alienating new players
By kicking new players or even old players who you just met. One’s that help you gather some loot or maybe the Shrouded ghost appears. Only to be kicked off so your “friends” can reap the rewards.
Give a single captain power and they will abuse it. Simple fact…look at the world we live in already. :p
Once that door is open. Nobody will willing go into open crew, fear of getting on a ship with a captain with god complex. Didn’t pick up that single chest? Forgot to adjust sails? At the last pineapple?
There are many in this game who play with random crews with an objective everyone wants to do/go after. If you design it to where the captain of the ship can kick people, no one, and I mean NO ONE, will run that risk of not being rewarded for putting in the time to achieve that objective. People will come here with pitchforks and torches venting, players will create tickets reporting they were kicked for no reason, and with that amount of drama, I highly doubt the game employees will want to deal with that noise. You're creating a feature that will be abused and will fracture the community to where no one will trust anyone anymore.
No thanks.
@burnbacon What about on brigs and galleons then, give players the ability to vote kick. Obviously not vote kick the captain of a captained ship, but then no "single captain" will have power to abuse.
@europa4033 Do you see how the current system already does that? There is NOTHING that stops a player from joining, bouncing around 30-40, even 50+ open crews, just to dump loot and firebomb the ship. The reason I stopped playing open crew is because the people I get either sabotage my ship or are incredibly racist/transphobic. I love meeting new people through this game, some of my best friends are from it. My AHG duos partner is someone I met on high seas. When you meet someone on high seas there is an expectation that in this PIRATE GAME they will do PIRATE THINGS to you, so you always have some guard up. When you have open crew you have the expectation that the person you are gonna get is someone will help you do pirate things and go on voyages, not someone who'll just keg your boat and log off with your main crate in their hands while spamming Rolls On Deck Laughing 100 times with forced text to speech on. Open crew is a USELESS FEATURE until rare makes it so we can get rid of useless people.
Never know if you don't try. I really don't care if I get kicked off someone else's boat. It's their boat. Not my boat. Every captain should have control over their own vessel. If you don't, then there is no way to protect yourself. I am obviously referring to way more than boating.
Are you telling me that you feel like you have some "inane right" to someone else's vessel?
I would much rather be kicked repeatedly from other people's boats than not have the ability to kick toxic players from mine. At least I could protect my own gameplay. The game, as it sits today, has no protection feature for leaving the boat open for new crewmates and that is the only way you really get to know whether you want to sail with someone you don't know.
It's human psychology. It's not a big change in the system. If they see a negative effect, it's not something difficult to change back. The problem is that this game doesn't have the dev support that other games that continue to change things and have the ability to change them back if the community doesn't like it. Fortnite for example has way more support.
@guildar9194 said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
@lockablesiren26
No.Imagine, if you will:
- You join an Open Crew.
- You play for an hour, maybe 2 hours. Stacking treasure, defending it, etc.
- The ship starts to sail to an outpost.
- The Captain then kicks you so h is friend can log in, join, and get all the treasure for 0 of the effort.
- Meanwhile, you get 0 treasure for the 1-2 hours you just spent with that crew.
Yep so many issues with kicking players from a boat.
Best solution, create a discord and then find and recruit regular players to play with instead of relying on randoms, this will cut down any issues.
Never know if you don't try.
Except RARE would be spending money to implement this idea.
I really don't care if I get kicked off someone else's boat. It's their boat. Not my boat.
And yet the game is not made solely for you. I, and apparently many others, very much would care if we got kicked & lost out on treasure we helped gather.
Every captain should have control over their own vessel.
Clearly the devs think otherwise.
Are you telling me that you feel like you have some "inane right" to someone else's vessel?
Nowhere did I say that.
But I DO have a right to not be kicked randomly so a captain can invite their friend to take my treasure.It's human psychology. It's not a big change in the system. If they see a negative effect, it's not something difficult to change back.
So you're fine with RARE spending money to implement your change, because only they will have to spend more money to change it back if it fails. Which it will, as noted by myself and others pointing out all the flaws.
I mean, it's not your money, so why should you care if the idea fails, right?
Do you really think RARE has not thought of this, weighed the pros and cons, and decided on which course of action is better? After 8 years of SoT being around?
I have mixed thoughts on this. On one hand, I see what people are saying - it could be easily abused.
On the other hand, I feel like there are absolutely situations that warrant it, and I think the good would outweigh the bad. I formed a crew with some chill (mostly) folks from the SoT discord, to do Burning Blade stacks.
Everything was going great and everyone was participating until we hit stack 5, and one of the players said he would "BRB". Dude literally was standing afk on our ship for the rest of our session - we'd message him on discord and get no response, and we watched him move his character slightly, as to not get Lazybearded, multiple times - he was just leeching.
We fought off two different crews (sloop and a brig) while this clown just stood there, not helping and moving his character to prevent getting kicked. And as SOON as we pulled up to the Reaper Hideout, he jumped off the ship to put his vote down and promptly left as soon as the BB despawned and he got his gold/rep. Left a very sour taste in my mouth.
In this scenario, kicking that clown would have been great, so we could replace him with someone who would actually have helped. The more I think on it, the less worried I am about instances of abuse/misuse, simply because there is no deterrent for toxic clowns like that.
@potatosord said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
@europa4033 Do you see how the current system already does that? There is NOTHING that stops a player from joining, bouncing around 30-40, even 50+ open crews, just to dump loot and firebomb the ship. The reason I stopped playing open crew is because the people I get either sabotage my ship or are incredibly racist/transphobic. I love meeting new people through this game, some of my best friends are from it. My AHG duos partner is someone I met on high seas. When you meet someone on high seas there is an expectation that in this PIRATE GAME they will do PIRATE THINGS to you, so you always have some guard up. When you have open crew you have the expectation that the person you are gonna get is someone will help you do pirate things and go on voyages, not someone who'll just keg your boat and log off with your main crate in their hands while spamming Rolls On Deck Laughing 100 times with forced text to speech on. Open crew is a USELESS FEATURE until rare makes it so we can get rid of useless people.
Open crews always come with risks. There is zero tolerance however for tossing treasure out and setting your ship on fire. You have the ability to record and report. If everyone had the ability to kick, even if just one person had that ability, it would kill crews as we know it, as no one would trust anyone to not kick them.
@europa4033 rEcOrD aNd RePoRt Yeah dude hold on let me just go back in time and start my recording before I knew there was going to be open crew trolls. Or should I just constantly be recording all of my gameplay just in case I need to report someone? Neither of those are viable options. How do I prove that he is the one putting the banana on the stove? How do I prove that he threw the fireballs after the fact? It takes 5 seconds to throw a pile of firebombs and log off, no one has the ability to record that quickly, and even then, they could be doing it below deck where there is no way to see them to prove it. Open crew is a useless system without the ability to moderate people on your boat.
Yeah dude hold on let me just go back in time and start my recording before I knew there was going to be open crew trolls
If your on Xbox, you can simply click a button or two. On PC, you can set up keys to bind. Screenshot for example is right there on your keyboard.
How do I prove that he is the one putting the banana on the stove?
How do I prove that he threw the fireballs after the fact?
Well, if your on a Sloop...it narrows down the field. But come on...
Firebombs, easy to deal with. Banana on stove, that seems to be a 'player' issue for not always checking or listening to the ssssss. Heck..it just a burn banana that slowly catches fire...again. Fire easy to deal.It takes 5 seconds to throw a pile of firebombs and log off
"1-2 minutes of burning to cause a single injury to the ship" quick youtube Myth busting and found that answer. Fire is nothing to worry about. So frankly...burning the ship isnt really a problem, sure it bad but come now.
no one has the ability to record that quickly,
Console players. :/
they could be doing it below deck where there is no way to see them to prove it.
There always evidence. Enough reports against a single player from multiple random pirates goes a long ways.
Open crew is a useless system without the ability to moderate people on your boat.
Moderating? So now instead of a Captain..your a Mod ingame. Ruling over your ship and demanding things, and if nobody follows "Boot" you go. I am 100% sure, IF they add such a feature and for a moment, you wanna join a friend or random Open Crew, the Captain will kick you for some silly reason because "They were given the Right" as Captain.
Bottom Line.
Captains are respected more when they are equal to every member of the crew. Once they abuse any form of power they have, Gonna leave you on a desert island with a single shot and rusty sword. If your so scared of Open Crew, Dont use it. Very simple.
Close it and Invite people.As others have said, the issue here is open crew. Your solution opens gates to new forms of toxicity and abuse so isn't a good idea. Just because you wouldn't abuse this mechanic doesn't mean no one else would.
I recommend using lfg or discord to find people rather than open crew as sadly it has become renowned for people looking to troll.
@potatosord said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
@europa4033 rEcOrD aNd RePoRt Yeah dude hold on let me just go back in time and start my recording before I knew there was going to be open crew trolls. Or should I just constantly be recording all of my gameplay just in case I need to report someone? Neither of those are viable options. How do I prove that he is the one putting the banana on the stove? How do I prove that he threw the fireballs after the fact? It takes 5 seconds to throw a pile of firebombs and log off, no one has the ability to record that quickly, and even then, they could be doing it below deck where there is no way to see them to prove it. Open crew is a useless system without the ability to moderate people on your boat.
You don't have a clip option to capture the last minute or so? I record all my sessions always, and delete if nothing out of the ordinary happens. Not viable options? Good luck reporting cheaters then as well, because that's what they require for you to report anyone. Open crew is always a risk, which you need to understand. You want the ability to kick people, which WILL be abused, instead of doing what Rare asks you to do with players who are griefing you. I'm not the one saying this, Rare is. If you somehow can't possibly record or clip a player on your crew griefing, just don't do open crew.
@europa4033 Reporting a player doesn't undo or stop what they are doing. If I see a guy dropping my loot off, I could just kick him, and it's over. No need to record and report when I can just make him go away. Again, it's not viable for all of us. Congrats that it's viable for you, I'm glad you're successful enough in life that you don't have to worry about that, but the average PC player has no way to just "clip" without setting something up beforehand with the express ability to clip. I would rather have the ability to kick a player off my boat who joins and ruins the session because they think its funny, rather than having to wait for them to fully ruin my session (in under 10 seconds no less). This idea that players will kick people for their friends to profit is poorly thought out at best. Sure, it could happen, but it's not going to be the most common thing, and the alternative is that we just let toxic monsters run around and ruin 50 peoples days before we get to do anything about it.
@potatosord said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
This idea that players will kick people for their friends to profit is poorly thought out at best. Sure, it could happen, but it's not going to be the most common thing, and the alternative is that we just let toxic monsters run around and ruin 50 peoples days before we get to do anything about it.
Giving players the ability to remove gold and reputation rewards from others, which is what being able to kick would do, is a worse solution than being able to lock them up and prevent further tampering. It will happen most often in Open Crew, which is where most of the random crew members come from. The more it happens, the less likely that players are going to use Open Crew which means less crew members for everyone who uses it. You aren't removing their ability for gold or reputation by putting them in the brig, but you can prevent them from doing damage to the crew. It's the best neutral solution available IMO.
The only case that should be looked at should be the sloop, where the player who has been on the ship the longest should be able to brig the other player with a single vote.
@potatosord said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
@europa4033 Reporting a player doesn't undo or stop what they are doing. If I see a guy dropping my loot off, I could just kick him, and it's over. No need to record and report when I can just make him go away. Again, it's not viable for all of us. Congrats that it's viable for you, I'm glad you're successful enough in life that you don't have to worry about that, but the average PC player has no way to just "clip" without setting something up beforehand with the express ability to clip. I would rather have the ability to kick a player off my boat who joins and ruins the session because they think its funny, rather than having to wait for them to fully ruin my session (in under 10 seconds no less). This idea that players will kick people for their friends to profit is poorly thought out at best. Sure, it could happen, but it's not going to be the most common thing, and the alternative is that we just let toxic monsters run around and ruin 50 peoples days before we get to do anything about it.
You're right. It doesn't "undo" or stop what they're doing. Instead, it earns them points and a vacation from the game (and you know what too many points does). Not only could you kick someone dropping loot, you could kick someone just before you sell, when they decline to leave after helping you get all that loot. You seriously don't think it'll be the most common thing? Have you seen the SoT community discord? I'm just one person, and I'm already thinking of ways people could abuse this over there.. do hourglass with someone, get a streak going, kick them and turn-in. Have someone put down their luck of voyage, and kick them. There's so many ways this would get abused. It would take trolling to a whole new level like you wouldn't believe. What would you do, or how would you feel, if this happened to you? If your answer is, "Well at least they can't troll me anymore," this is trolling on a whole new level, and you're just there to be their tool.
@potatosord the potential for abuse is just too significant to warrant making it a possibility. Imagine I've recruited an lfg and a shrouded ghost spawns after some of my normal crew come online. Not that I'd do it but plenty would, or someone who needs their last chest of fortune etc.
It's quite a selfish perspective to think well you're always gonna choose to be captain so this can't happen to you so you don't care about the possible effect on other people. Those trolls could start doing captain only sessions and intentionally booting people.A solution to a problem that causes more issues is not a viable one.
@hiradc A feature that is worthless to use is a feature that has no reason to be in the game. Open crew is opt in abuse.
@guildar9194 why not make it like in helldivers 2? If you get kicked it simply looks like the other(s) leave(s). The players simply get split up but can continue playing. (Maybe the ship will change to a default, to prevent using somebody elses ship)
@ll393 said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
@guildar9194 why not make it like in helldivers 2? If you get kicked it simply looks like the other(s) leave(s). The players simply get split up but can continue playing. (Maybe the ship will change to a default, to prevent using somebody elses ship)
So the treasure would duplicate?
Would the kicked player be on the same server? Or would he appear on a new server?
Would the treasure appear on the new server with him?The issue with kicking is the treasure. A person, or crew, should not have the power to kick someone & prevent them from earning treasure they helped gather.
@ll393 said in Boat captains should be able to kick random toxic players.:
@guildar9194 why not make it like in helldivers 2? If you get kicked it simply looks like the other(s) leave(s). The players simply get split up but can continue playing. (Maybe the ship will change to a default, to prevent using somebody elses ship)
You and I are on a sloop. We get a 4-streak in hourglass and decide to go and turn-in. I kick you and turn it in myself, getting rep and gold. Would you be okay with this?
