I know this has been beat to death but are we really just gonna leave the game in this state forever? It’s damn near impossible to sink someone without boarding and it makes hourglass unbearable because most players will do literally anything to avoid a naval fight. We need a cooldown on the mermaid or a wait time when one is used. We need boats to sink much faster. We need grapple guns to not even hit ships. The ship warfare is what makes this game unique and it’s basically obsolete at this point. Most of my hourglass opponents simply make boarding attempts the entire round and can completely circumvent naval combat faaarrrrr too easily. I’m aware this is a skill issue to a degree but it’s still a massive design flaw imo. This game’s getting uninstalled again unfortunately. I really enjoy the naval combat but if I’m just going to be forced to play COD on a boat because people wanna effectively exploit I’ll just play another game.
Boarding meta
It’s damn near impossible to sink someone without boarding
What are you doing wrong?
makes hourglass unbearable because most players will do literally anything to avoid a naval fight.
Makes sailing around outside HG all much more appealing.
We need a cooldown on the mermaid
and players already complain how it doesnt spawn quick enough....
We need boats to sink much faster.
Get better?
We need grapple guns to not even hit ships.
What the point of them? You can grab other players...
Most of my hourglass opponents simply make boarding attempts the entire round and can completely circumvent naval combat faaarrrrr too easily.
If they are trying to board...There ship is not protected.
I’m aware this is a skill issue to a degree but it’s still a massive design flaw imo.
Design flaw or more a skill issue then you let on?
They don't really work on the sloop to be a good boat for aggression or challenging fights or anything other than running, except it's never even been a good running boat either. Except solo v solo.
2 hits to the mast did nothing for offense and just made it 10x worse for solo v solo because all it does is reward and enable annoying stuff like what people do in HG to avoid combat.
They don't maintain pvp for interesting fights between different sized crews and ships. It's very punch down for bigger boats and "deal with it" for sloops and naval crews on the underdog side of the fight.
Adding a harpoon gun, having a silly amount of chainshots without any participation requirement, having a brig go silly fast for years in all directions, making it so easy to maintain and spam with a brig, etc etc. It was never about fun or interesting fights in a shared environment.
Little boat/underdogs are seen as "hard mode" and they should "get friends, join the punch down style" and big boats are seen as the boats that are supposed to win.
There is still a lot of fun stuff to do in SoT but challenging pvp has been leaning more challenging and less fun for a long time. There is a reason so many moved on from solo in pretty much every different SoT group that there is.
Personally I think it's awful for SoT to have 3 choices in pvp. Mind numbing wins over adventure boats, nightmare sloop/solo play for challenging pvp, extreme fomo hg. I think people get too fired up about pvp in the game but these are some of the reasons that so many players are always full of salt about sot pvp, and/or so arrogant about non-challenging fights.
For a game that really doesn't like camping much in their messaging they have made a LOT of decisions that have made camping more and more necessary over the years for a sink.
@jazzach said in Boarding meta:
We need boats to sink much faster.
Aim very low. But it really depends on the boat that your attacking.
My crew have sunk Sloops, Brigs and Galleons in under a minute at times. While other times 1 to 2 hours, it depends on the boat crew's skill.
Get creative with tactics.
@captdirtyoar fwiw I mainly play solo sloop. I’m not amazing but I win pretty consistently cause most people are also pretty bad. I’m good on cannons and can hit at a long enough range to sink most people if they fight but if they just play keep away and try to board me all game I have no options. It’s actually the best strategy. I can beat them on my boat 10x but if they win once it could end the game if they’re smart. It’s just not good game design flat out. I’m doing all I can to improve, I’ve watched a ton of sponge. I can maintain a spiral and keep my boat repped without losing angle but all of this is moot if my opponent just wants to play keep away and make board attempts. I’m aware that being able to hit cannons from narnia would make this much less of an issue, and I’m working on that but, for the games own sake, I shouldn’t have to be a god before the PvP plays well.
@jazzach said in Boarding meta:
@captdirtyoar fwiw I mainly play solo sloop. I’m not amazing but I win pretty consistently cause most people are also pretty bad. I’m good on cannons and can hit at a long enough range to sink most people if they fight but if they just play keep away and try to board me all game I have no options. It’s actually the best strategy. I can beat them on my boat 10x but if they win once it could end the game if they’re smart. It’s just not good game design flat out. I’m doing all I can to improve, I’ve watched a ton of sponge. I can maintain a spiral and keep my boat repped without losing angle but all of this is moot if my opponent just wants to play keep away and make board attempts. I’m aware that being able to hit cannons from narnia would make this much less of an issue, and I’m working on that but, for the games own sake, I shouldn’t have to be a god before the PvP plays well.
You're already doing about as good as you're gonna do.
Unless they add a timer of some kind and maybe some other things to keep solo hg moving along you're already at your ceiling in the current design.
You can get better at pvp than you now are but in the current design your outcome isn't going to change much.
Focusing on what extreme players do really won't change much for most people, it could even be counterproductive by increasing frustration and burnout.
And thats why many no longer play HG, myself included.
Im a Cannon God.. but when it comes to close qtrs combat, im all thumbs.
I sink people without boarding ALL THE TIME.. By way of precise cannon shots.
Kill em on the cannon, kill em when theyre rep'n the mast, kill em on the helm..
i Dont just aim to put holes in their ship.. i Aim for them, Do some damage & get a cannon kill shot.As a cannon main, the meta of foregoing cannon foreplay and get straight to boarding attempts is disappointing.
But.. its the quickest way to kill ur opponent & an opponent who is dead isnt bilging & repairing.. and thats why its done.
Typically by double gunning PC pirates, theyre on another level.My recommendation.. Get your curses and just hunt in adventure mode.. HG is so repetative
You know the bell curve meme format right?
I think you're in the middle of it.Let me explain as simple as possible:
A. New players tend to naval a lot more then go for boards. Why? They think staying on the ship is the way to win, they are scared of the ship sinking in 20 seconds after a single Tier 3 hole. You watch two new players go at it, fights literally last close to an hour.
They simply lack confidence (Game knowledge) and they are constantly in array in resetting their ship in patching and getting angles to fire 2 cannonballs, failing to realize how their sails and helm position play a big part, rinse & repeat.
Their boarding attempts often fail, they either miss the ladder/deckshots completely, or their timing is horrible with no pressure on the opponent, meaning they get ladder guarded easily... Or they board manage to kill the defender, realize the opponent only has one hole, the boarder dies from the respawned defender and they start the doom cycle over again. There's so many gaps in skill at this level it's comical, the biggest one is not bothering to eat when there low HP to die from a sniper shot.B. The middle of the bell curve (You and others here): Finally get ''decent/competent'' at PvP, you are at a stage where you can board and get a sink off that board AND vice versa where someone does it to you.
With this new found knowledge you realize boarding is really powerful against opponents who aren't really good at PvP. It also happens to you against players that are miles better then you, and so you think the boarding/TDM strategy is over powered and the game lacks naval. Where your problem is that you created a Bias mindset when it comes to boarding. Your missing the skill set in sinking the better players but also think boarding is OP when you get constant sink against noobs.C. You are good at PvP, like actually genuinely good, not just ''decent'' you sink most players by a few cannonball shots and a single board to seal the deal against the A and B player, you may need to spend a few more minutes in naval to really demast and put pressure on them, lock them down, before a board to finish em off against player B, no problem, not even a sweat has been broken...
C2. Your opponent is JUST as good as you, you both know the game PvP wise inside-out and the best META to win.
Now tell me from your post, do both of these really good PvP players go for TDM boards solely?No, just like our brand new player, the end of the bell curve for good PvP players who FACE Each other; respect limits, they will naval a lot more before even attempting to go for a board. The meta changes at the higher level where you NEED pressure in order to get a sink from a board, that means, demasting them, putting all the holes in single side full of Tier 3's, and hopefully on the other side too where it forces your opponent to be stuck on bucketing/repairing.
Boarding isn't just landing that sweet deckshot or climbing the ladder ASAP, it's sometime means playing in the water for a minute, looking for an opening to climb the ladder. (Timing).
Boarding at this level is usually the ''end phase'' of PvP battle, it is NOT the bread & butter of winning a naval fight every time (Not against good players who priotise defending boarders when they have little to no pressure to worry about).This btw translates to all ship/crew sizes, exact same strategy.
The ship warfare is what makes this game unique and it’s basically obsolete at this point.
You are clearly either the A or B point of the bell curve.
We need boats to sink much faster.
No we don't, that makes it so you can't survive with a few holes on a single side, horribly balanced and will only worsen the running effect. All you want to be is a cannon bot, I suggest being a MC on a gally crew. Even then your usually the first to board to.
We need grapple guns to not even hit ships
The grapple gun was introduced because People sitting in the B point of the bell curve complained that there isn't enough ways to board, I haven't heard a single whine or complain for good PvP players that the Harpoon guns was necessary for boards... (Read Point C in regards to pressure). Players in the B point of the bell curve wanted an easy lazily board method because they can't be bothered in learning Naval to demast and pressure the enemy.
I really enjoy the naval combat but if I’m just going to be forced to play COD on a boat because
Naval in this game includes both Naval AND Hand-to-hand combat (TDM), Both plays a role. Like I said Naval is like 80% of the time, and TDM / Boards is really just the final 20-10% to close out the fight from a favorable position.
Cringe to say, But I was a former comp player who basically won 99% of my fights against players who weren't in the competitive scene. This to prove that I know what I'm talking about.
There are many people who simply (try to) board straight-away and usually try to sail someone out, or board/sail to island or fort, crash or keg.
Sometimes it is because they aren't good at naval and trying to use their strengths to win, or it also could be they don't want to get into an hour long back-and-forth repair simulator with two ships de-masted next to each other.
If it's the latter, how can you blame them? HG is, generally, repetitive to the point that after a few fights the novelty is long gone. It makes sense to board early, at least see who you're dealing with, if you're just trying to gain rep quickly and be efficient. There have been many fights I bail on because it's much more efficient to move to the next one, or it's just not fun.
@jazzach I agree with this sentiment. I despise PvP in this game because instead of people fighting each other on naval combat like in the early days it has instead devolved to making sure the other players can't play as quick as possible by boarding, bunny hopping, and spawn camping and basically being the cheapest. Players attack others like it's a competitive game and have to use the cheapest strategy possible to guarantee winning. Unfortunately this is Rare's fault as they have consistently been actively promoting this behavior over the updates. It no longer feels like I'm playing fantasy pirate and instead I'd compare it to playing one with Somalian pirates with how almost all PvP is now just board and prevent the other crew from playing.
