PVP system (arena/hourglass)

  • I think I played enough both the arena and the hourglass to be able to talk about the good and bad of both.

    I will at the end suggest something (a new pvp system without removing the hourglass)

    The new pvp system (hourglass) now able pvp tryhard (few percent of player) to encounter new player (the vast majority of the playerbase) much more often that before.

    It's because reason 1 :

    • you can't dive if there are other ship nearby which result most of the time in the pvp player destroying, spawn-camping the other boat in open world until he votes the hourglass or sinks.
    • new players don't know a thing about the game which leads to newbie decision(/discover decision) like the red flag, or in this case voting the hourglass.

    This system leads to toxic environment and comments between the two. (*note : I believe toxic environment will always exist in competitive gamemod)

    With the arena it was seperate and so, in few numbers (encounter between tryhard/new player).

    Now on the second reason :

    With the arena if there was a cheater, what we would do is try to gather all the other boats who understand what's happening and gang up on the cheater's boat. Which leads to them stop playing most of the time.

    Now with the hourglass system you are most of the time doomed, (#sot tp keg, CDM, esp etc..) because it's a 1 on 1 thus you don't stand a chance. Which result in a huge loss of time and energy either by trying to actually sink them while using their cheats against them (if they aren't that good at using them).

    Now let's add everything up in terms of time lost :

    - spawning/despawning(when sunk) + preparing the boat(buying supplying, sorting or not, scavenging, end of pve session, etc..) + anchor + sailing away + diving + finding player + fighting + boat sinking time.
    

    Most of them are needed in pve session I'll give you that, but in pvp it's just not worth it, with the arena it's a 15 or 30 minutes game if I remember well. And it's only spawn/despawn + (anchor/sail) + fight + sink = which is a HUGE difference.

    Lastly the mod at one point is bland, no flavor or humanity behind it compare to the arena. It's even more competitive than the arena due to the 1 on 1, especially on sloop it's just bland in my opinion.

    The arena felt like he had some work behind it, the grind was worth it (I did 100% all reputation arena) and I still wanted to play it.
    It had some flaws sure but way less than the new mod.

    Honorable mention : event during the hourglass are just hum very annoying may I say, to top if off the blizzard and tempest is well no comment you get the idea.

    Now onto the suggestion, 3 mods and changes in the hourglass :

    • 1st mod SHIP-FIGHT = reward(point) increased for cannonball shot(hit), oneballed, deckshot (an idea why not), demast etc... (chest spawns but aren't worth it)

    • 2cd mod THIEF ONWARD = chest will spawn on every ship (not on land) thus reward increased for board and stealing chest who are on other's ship. The longer you keep a chest from an other ship on board the better your point increase but dangerous and all chest despawn after 5 minutes (so you better sell them) if you haven't stole an enemy's chest (to counter reaper runners) point will still be earn with cannon hit, kill etc.. though greatly reduced to induce people to steal chest. (the countdown for the reset chest onboard is reset each time you put your hands on another team's boat. (*An other option to counter runners : if a boat hasn't sold another boat's chest after 5 min, this boat becomes the number 1 target of the server by increasing the point/reputation earned when stealing this chest's a message pops on every single boat to make them aware of it. Also the targeted boat will lost more point if it sinks. It's an idea)

    • 3rd mod ARE YOU WORTHY ENOUGH a tdm mod on ground where each boat has a flag (like emissary flag and is anchored near a fort. you have to defend your flag while stealing and selling others flag [to prevent spawn kill, the team with the most point will be marked on the map (the same as a reaper bounty or the old athena chest in arena) and point for their death will be double until flag captured/and sold or all dead, something like that] Also those who haven't been killed for while will be also marked, and more point will be earned for those who kill them. (Flag appear on top of the head or something and the more you earn flag the more wanted you become thus the more valuable)

    All of this is just ideas, I really like the game though I highly dislike the new pvp system. You have to be a madman or love the game to some dangerous degree to still play it (hacker aren't only in the pvp system anymore). Or 3rd option Sea Of Thieves is the best of the worse nothing is better so it still makes sense to play it.

    Other ideas :

    • a button to report the previous boat even though you might have not seen one or a few crew mate (if boosting/cheating)
    • Tryhard player put crate around the deck in sloop and brigantin (even maybe galeon), it would be nice to be able to transform or have the opportunity to upgrade the ship while in a streak, example, wood or something transparent so we can shoot through will start to form around the boat to counter harpoon. Each time someone harpoon the exact same position the structure is damaged and maybe around 2 or 3 it breaks (can't be damaged by cannonballs)
    • automatically refill the boat like the arena system each time you get out of the water (after diving in matchmaking) 200 cannonballs in each barrels etc..
    • boats who haven't vote the hourglass and still comes next to hourglass battlefield will get a message as they approach ("You will soon enter an hourglass area, danger incoming") something like which result in them automatically changing the hourglass to a blank pvp state. That way if another ship sinks it the streak increase.
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  • @tom-woods3543 problem with having “a mode” is that it has to be supported separately like Arena was. The beauty of Hourglass is it sits within adventure and doesn’t need separate resources to work.

  • @tesiccl It's true but I have the feeling it's doing more bad than good compared to the arena which was just let down by the dev not wanting to work on it if I'm not wrong. And like you said it's because it was seperate. I might be better in terms of ressources spent, management etc.. but for the game only I don't think it's good thing in the short, middle and long terms.

  • @tesiccl And with it come all the disadvantages in terms of

    • server performance and hitreg issues due to PvE and loot
    • keg teleports since its an adventure server that has loot
    • unwanted interference from outside (name one person who likes being third partied in a 1v1. yes "its part of the game" but I have not met anyone who would not prefer having a seperate instance for the fight)

    A dedicated mode would have the advantages of being able to turn off every non-essential (PvE spawns, loot, world events, emergent threats, etc etc) for the benefit of server performance for the naval battle in terms of wave calculations, cannonball calculations and projectile hitreg. Can't get kegged without kegs on the server. You can easily set custom supplies to get everyone right into the action to lessen the morale hit from sinking without upsetting the balance against the current normal PvE ships.

    I bet if Rare had decided to just implement the skeleton / ghost curse cosmetics into Arena the mode would have been revived and played much more than hourglass is being played now.

    It was a fully functional game mode with a slow matchmaking system. Instead of fixing the matchmaking for faster match starts, Rare decided to abandon the whole system altogether and go for the "all in one" approach. The advantages (saving dev time and money to fix Arena with every single update) can't come without disadvantages and here we are.

    My wish and idea was to release Arena from a 2020 version as a standalone game. No game breaking bugfixing needed after every single update. Only occasional fixes in case someone finds a very broken exploit. But Arena used to be "tools not rules" and has put everyone on even grounds in terms of starting supplies etc. Tried something and failed? Sink, respawn, try again. Go and practice. It was great for quickly practicing PvP in all colors of the rainbow. There were whole tournaments in it. Yes, it was not played by that many players but it is not like Rare had no options to change that.

    A standalone for a fee feels like a win win situation for me but of course it will most likely not create as much revenue as the emporium does :/

  • Comparing Arena to Hourglass is like comparing a Feather to a Pillow

    Two different things that dont need to be compared with very minor similarity's
    as well, One was a Mode and another is just a TOOL, which everyone keeps getting wrong

  • @tom-woods3543 FORGOT TO MENTION BUT ALL SUGESTION ARE FOR AN ARENA V2 NOT HOURGLASS

  • It's a no win no matter how you slice it.

    If it is in real world it has all the issues you outlined.
    If it is not in real world then there is no enough interest to support it.

  • Inb4 anchor

    Lets work on improving HG not beating the dead horse of ressurecting Arena

  • In my opinion, before implementing changes to the HG mode, they should work on an anticheat and on fixing or improving the servers, because the current ones are pathetic.

    Once this is fixed and the battles stop being a RNG and Hitreg fest, mixed with a cheater fest, it would be time to implement changes.

    Changes that I would propose for the current HG:

    • DECENT matchmaking system, matching a 100 hour player with a 5,000 hour player is ridiculous.

    • Reduce the tediousness of losing a battle, be able to insta queue with automatic and FREE captaincy resources, so it wouldn't feel so frustrating to lose.

    • Slowly reduce the size of the combat area, to avoid those nasty runners we are encountering more and more often (Those of you who do that, you disgust me, if you want to run, you have the whole adventure map available) and eliminate the possibility of invading a ship in an Outpost, many of those runners do that tactic in places like Galeons or Dagger and it is unpleasant to deal with that disgusting tactic.

    • Give more rewards to players, both level 1-100 and 101-1000, spend less time on skins for the emporium and use that time for free rewards for player effort.

    I think these are fairly simple changes that would greatly improve the quality and fun of this mode.

    But, obviously, a new 2-3 hour tall tale is more important, the health of the game, another day.

  • @soulstinger2k20 I don't think it is "a dead horse", bringing back the arena with the set of ascended or fallen sea dog will solve lot of problem we deal in HG

  • It is a dead horse as theyve said its not coming back, and lock most every thread that starts talking about it

  • @tesiccl said in PVP system (arena/hourglass):

    The beauty of Hourglass is it sits within adventure.

    I'm sure that Rare loves that they don't need to dedicate their time and resources to something worthwhile and still get paid big bucks for it. cough bugs!

    What most people see from the removal of Arena and the addition of Hourglass is a half-hearted attempt to please the PvP lords of the seas. Simultaneously, the people who normally play adventure are now the targets of a lot of PvP in order to fulfill achievements. Inordinate amounts of us are completionists in the game. We want everything and all the cosmetics that are in the gold shop.

    I don't see the 'beauty' in Hourglass.

  • @mrestiercol said in PVP system (arena/hourglass):

    But, obviously, a new 2-3 hour tall tale is more important than the health of the game, another day.

    The biggest take of today. The fact that the tall tales are more important than the health of the game and its player's enjoyment. @Rare better pay attention.
    I know they love world-building and making all these fancy stories. But it has moreso been about players' stories. Players' love for the time together. That's what brought us to the Sea of Thieves.

    They spent all this time and energy on a mode that has received as warm a welcome as Arena and just as much avoidance and care from their players because of how little is gained from it. I don't hear stories about Hourglass. I hear complaints and frustrations alone. That's it.

    How is that 'healthy' in game development terms? Especially on their pocket-books as I don't feel obligated to supporting by buying more cosmetics for the lack of enjoyment.

  • @amendelwyr good, you go on the seas, it shouldn’t be a safe space for you. It’s a PvPvE game. Don’t like the PvP, don’t play the game :)

  • @tesiccl said in PVP system (arena/hourglass):

    @amendelwyr good, you go on the seas, it shouldn’t be a safe space for you. It’s a PvPvE game. Don’t like the PvP, don’t play the game :)

    I like PvP, btw. Sorry that you can't read my message effectively to learn something or understand my point.

  • @amendelwyr PvP in this game is something everyone wants at some point even new player will want to try it. Arena was the answer back then and now it's the hourglass though the HG feels completely soulless. It really feels like the HG is here for one purpose only which is fill in the gap the arena (pvp) created when it ended. I don't see the 'beauty' in Hourglass too.

    1. Arena was more fun, because you had more cosmetics and more ''challenges'' in to unlock such as oneballs, weapon kills of each type, cannon hits, etc.
      So each match you could focus on a particular commendation without having to go for the win each and every time.
      Also the obvious being 5 ships means more strategy to win.

    2. The 1v1s got boring where I hardly play them anymore, facing the best teams/crews its literally the same meta.
      Dump enough lowers on the enemy galleon to force bilge + Flex down, and try and get a kill on the MC/Helm and go for a board, that's the general gist of it, but it's just so damn repetitive compared to Arena.
      The only thing I liked about 1v1 is that you HAVE to sink the enemy, and not farm them for points which can be a bit braindead when it takes little skill aiming the cannons anywhere on their boat.

    3. A lot of comp/sweats personally have stopped playing the game altogether because of a variety of issues such as cheaters, Gameplay loop being broken when you sink and spending so much time to supp up again feels like it takes an eternity, alongside more issues.

    4. The RARE patches such as supply glitch means supping up is even more painful.

    5. Also IDC what anyone says about HG being in adventure, I have yet to meet a single person saying that they had fun being 3rd partied when it's a sweaty 1v1 fight just for it to be ''ruined'' by another ship.
      It's just not fun apart from the 3rd party ship.

    6. In theory if Arena was to ever come back it could become more popular IF RARE Supported it actively, because they didn't in the past outside of patch fixes. and of course the V2 Update reworking chests essentially.
      But lets be realistic, I'd rather they concentrate on Hourglass. Because it makes ZERO sense for them to scrap Hourglass all of a sudden in favour of bringing arena back.

    sot tp keg>

    This guy is actually a chill person when you get to talk to him, obviously well known in the cheater community.
    He plays/cheats for fun, getting a reaction from people etc.
    Says he won't stop as he know the game will never have an Anti-Cheat (Which I agree with at this stage tbh)
    So Cheating will always be an issue in this game and will be a cat & mouse game of patches as currently is. (But cheaters are always ahead in this regard).

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