Allegiance... Too passive invader... DEV please READ!!

Runners in this mode are such a pain I agree... Happens quite a lot in solo sloop...

Their whole strategy is basically to bore you out of the fight. They're the reason I don't do streaks because else I'd be more reticent to give up to these guys. You can do what you want to their ship, they just never give up, and if you're not good enough to secure the sink (not consistent enough with spawn-killing basically), there's just no way to end the fight. They're always turning away, never engaging, saying they have all the time in the world.

I wish there could be a way to differentiate this from rightfully sailing away and resetting the fight, so there would be possible fixes to this behaviour but I can't think of none (some matches - especially solo sloop - will be very long anyway just because the skill level isn't high enough on both side, not because of abusing the running away/bore your opponent to death technique, but I agree this is still an issue)

@geraapa1 3 times in a row reels unrealistic. I've never had this although I mainly invade. What are you proposing be done about it?

Option to runaway....would be abused
Force them to attack, how?

Shrinking arena over time. Literally any other BR mode game does this. It’s required to prevent stagnation of the action.

@geraapa1 the option to run away should def NOT exist, or if it would you should lose all your rep and it count as a loss. This already exists sail outta bounds. You opted into pvp you are gonna have to fight. The running does suck tho

Gonna be a hot take here: If you're unable to catch a running opponent in hourglass PvP, you have a case of a bad skill difference.

The person running away is using a strat bad players use, but if it's working against you, what does that say to your skill level?

The only reasonable solution would be a battle timer between both combatants, but since this battle system isn't meant to introduce a tie, it's going to be weird to implement. Every other idea is pretty much flawed in the face of player freedom. Sure, enemy players abusing the battle space to keep as much distance from you as possible is as much as a valid strat as sailing you out of bounds, but like, all you gotta do is learn how to be opportunistic to any mistake your enemy will make. It can even come down to hit registration helping you win a battle if you can get a lucky board and kill on the enemy.

It's just one of many things that will help you learn how to become a hardened fighter, just like those sweatlords you don't like fighting. A little entertaining to see how much whining by normal/PvE-centric players are occurring when PvP-centric players have been complaining about some of these issues for years.

We need either a time limit with a scoring system to break ties (i.e. cannon hits, kills), or a shrinking boundary.

Either would force the match to come to an end much sooner, and motivate players to play more aggressively. Less time wasted for everyone involved.

@lormiun said in Allegiance... Too passive invader... DEV please READ!!:

Now I actually did not really care that much about this topic, HOWEVER:

@nex-stargaze said in Allegiance... Too passive invader... DEV please READ!!:

The person running away is using a strat bad players use, but if it's working against you, what does that say to your skill level?

This sentence is BS on a very important level so that I cannot leave it unaddressed.

Now unless the wind is EXTREMELY unlucky:
If someone intends to run away from you, has even a minor lead and is HALF-decent with sails, he WILL be able to do so UNTIL he reaches the Red!
This has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with skill. (Which is why Red-Sea suiciding is so pathetic).

Maybe it's just the "toxic PvP" nature I guess I'm surrounded in but I have to ask: If you got to this situation, how did you let it happen?

Players don't run away before first broadside (usually), you probably should have hit all of your cannon shots, killed them with a cannonball while they were likely glued to their cannon, knocked their mast down when you're consistently hitting cannonballs in the broadside, and following up with blunderbombs/cannonballs while they're attempting to catch/raise/repair their mast. You could even be cheap and use a cursed cannonball in your inventory in order to fully anchor down your enemy while their mast is down, or utilize a riggingball in order to prevent them from catching/raising their mast for a little while after you knock their mast down. This is all in context to at minimum a solo sloop 1v1 where one doesn't need to board in order to pin down their opponent.

Thing is: The ppl that defend this are usually the ones that use it.

Unfortunate for you, but I rarely ever get put in a running away situation while I still have enough cannon ammo to sink you (no really, if I don't have cannonballs I'm avoiding you at any means necessary till I find some more).

The being said we can complain about running all we want but at the end of the day, it's still a valid strategy, the "tools not rules" situation it falls under.

Unable to catch My a**.
This is not how SoT's Wind/Sail-System works, unless you sail perfectly, and/or your target making CRUCIAL mistakes, you will not catch him.

That... is exactly how you catch a runner, wait for them to make a mistake, take the opportunity to catch them when you can. What you don't realize is in normal Adventure mode settings, running players are already in a spiteful mood because instead of voyaging, gathering loot, making gold, and fighting easy to kill skeletons, they have to deal with you in this Open world adventure server. They either get away with the loot by out-playing you via sailing, or throwing everything away in the Devil's Shroud because they don't want to get caught by you and they have no better alternative plan.

In hourglass PvP it's only slightly different, as you only have a certain distance past the battle border before your boat blows up and auto-scuttles itself. A running player can basically keep distance from you, sneak a board onto you, and sail you out of bound for a free win on their end. It's cheap and scummy, but it's valid. Players will do any viable tactic to win, and 98% of the time, you can do it too.

When combat is the theoretical intend then this is nothing but a crutch for sore loosers and/or unskilled pirates.
The strategy of running away, on that we agree.

That is because it is a valid strategy. Sure, the way most of us are learning PvP is much more hardcore, difficult to get used to, and, when we lose a broadside especially, very unsatisfying and frustrating on the parts of the losing party. Running away? It's a different type of challenge. "How can I defeat my foe while taking in the least amount of damage on my ship and not sink before they do?" The challenge is more frustrating on the parts of the losing party (being the chasers) while the runner basically tries to 5-head themselves a way to not sink themselves and sink you simultaneously without trading cannon angles and broadsides.

But saying that you were just too bad to catch him is just BS due to the inherent Wind/Sail-System.
Since that is MUCH more dependant on him making CRUCIAL mistakes.
And when using this strat, even the greatest newbie will usually be able to avoid these.

If a newbie is capable of out-sailing you, they are most definitely not a newbie.

Actual newbies will die in an enemy's broadside and not know what actually happened (cause you know, they're new). It gets a fight over and done with easily, but a player with a minimal level of experience actively avoids dying in enemy broadsides because they figured out they don't have to, hence, running/recovering/resetting.

@lormiun said in Allegiance... Too passive invader... DEV please READ!!:

*YEAH :D
You are right!
I should have just annihilated them in the first go! Droped all their masts and anchor, ofc also damaging it in the process.
It is not like, ships are actually rather tanky! BS! Just sink them immediately with the first cannonball :D

I didn't say ships will sink in a cannonball, the strategy is to win the broadside. Hit them enough with cannonballs that they stop firing back, and to prevent running, knock down their mast so that they might stop firing at you and you can capitalize on the pressure you've given them.

Or no.
Why even waste a cannonball!
Just send a boarder and surely he will consistenly kill them all ...*

Boarding, depending on crew size is a very common strategy, even in solo 1v1s, if you can hit your shots and don't get hitregged, you can very much be able to win a battle easily.

That is not how PvP works, not for you, not for me, not for ANYONE who faces someone who is "not a complete bafoon". (+ it would be REALLY bad if that was the norm as it would make proper naval-battles the exception.) And what if they don't even offer a broadside?
If you catch someone completely by surprise then this PoV can make sense (But defenately not as defender in this Hourglass setting X).

As a defender, assuming you're preparing for battle between fight cooldowns, you have battlefield advantage, meaning your fight can be anywhere on the playable map, you can set up traps for your opponent, such as using fort tower cannons, sea fort cannons, potentially erupting volcanoes, the skeleton fleet world event if it's up, etc. Very easy to catch an invader off guard, and that's not even taking into account the alliance ambushes that can happen currently.

The one thing that bothers me about your post is the statement that this was somehow the "prusuers fault".

I'm under the belief that disengaging and letting your target make their own decisions lead to a more enjoyable experience instead of being hard-locked onto them. This is why many players dislike chasing/being chased, they can't do what they want to do because of an incompatible engagement, even in hourglass PvP.

Forcing the engagement to go your way requires certain conditions and actions to be taken, and if you're failing to reach that scenario, especially when the opportunity arises, it's only as much of your fault as damage registration and self-accuracy say so.

It is not. That's just BS. Running is SUPPOSED to be easy and on it's own that is absolutely a good thing.

Of course, running is the simplest task to do, but even that requires learning because of conditions you even listed yourself.

@nex-stargaze a dit dans Allegiance... Too passive invader... DEV please READ!! :

Gonna be a hot take here: If you're unable to catch a running opponent in hourglass PvP, you have a case of a bad skill difference.

Again. The "git gud" argument that goes nowhere.

Let's follow your thoughts here : I'm usually able, at one point, to board the runner's ship. I am, as you said, not "skilled enough" to consistently spawn-kill my opponent, so there's a very big chance I'll die at one point, even if his ship is anchored, full on fire and full of holes, demasted.... I'm gonna get back to my sloop, circling around near. And the time for me to readjust angles to shoot, my opponent raises his mast and sails away to reset.

But I guess by your standards I'm not worthy of progression in this mode. You're such a gatekeeper.

A little entertaining to see how much whining by normal/PvE-centric players are occurring when PvP-centric players have been complaining about some of these issues for years.

Thing is this is not comparable at all with organic PVP. In this mode people OPT IN to fight. This has nothing to do with regular PVP in which, yes, as a solo slooper, I'm gonna run from that brig chasing me, I just don't want to get stomped in a 3 v 1. Too bad if this causes "issues" for them.

@lordqulex yeah that would be OP, it will be the same running but in reverse

@jolly-ol-yep said in Allegiance... Too passive invader... DEV please READ!!:

Again. The "git gud" argument that goes nowhere.

Let's follow your thoughts here : I'm usually able, at one point, to board the runner's ship. I am, as you said, not "skilled enough" to consistently spawn-kill my opponent, so there's a very big chance I'll die at one point, even if his ship is anchored, full on fire and full of holes, demasted.... I'm gonna get back to my sloop, circling around near. And the time for me to readjust angles to shoot, my opponent raises his mast and sails away to reset.

If they're full of holes, demasted, and anchored, if you keep them distracted from repairing/bailing water between their spawns, and their water level is close to map table by the time you die, you very much can keep them locked down completely. If they manage to escape and reset, there is a MASSIVE problem where questions need to be asked, however, since it's hypothetical, there will be no need to do so.

But I guess by your standards I'm not worthy of progression in this mode. You're such a gatekeeper.

This mode's best progression conditions are very much binary: Win, or Lose. If you can sink them in any way (excluding 3rd-party programs cause uh, duh) and sink them, you get the best progression possible. It is not gatekeeping to say win your battles. That is literally the conditions set for this mode, and for the sake of what it's trying to promote, will probably not be changing anytime soon, this is off topic either way.

Thing is this is not comparable at all with organic PVP. In this mode people OPT IN to fight. This has nothing to do with regular PVP in which, yes, as a solo slooper, I'm gonna run from that brig chasing me, I just don't want to get stomped in a 3 v 1. Too bad if this causes "issues" for them.

Before Season 8, hopping PvP was just as prevalent as organic PvP. Crews were going to chase you to the edges of the map because they are either seeking an actual fight so they can practice their PvP skills and well, have fun, or they're after your treasure that you've collected in which letting you get away with any of it is not what they want to let happen.

Post-Season 8's launch, even in hourglass PvP, players are going to run, mainly so they can sneakily get on board your ship, kill you and sail you out of bounds without your ship ever getting in range of their cannons... at least that's the 5-headed plan that I would assume goes through some runners' heads. Running with a plan can be a winning strategy if your opponent is gullible enough for it, just like in adventure where running and boarding is a way to slow your opponents down or even repel them from chasing your further (rare instance lol).

Nothing sucks the fun out of this game mode as much as runners.

@nex-stargaze
I know all this. I win around 50% of my games so I'm slowly but surely getting there, personally. In many threads here I try to sympathise with all the Timmys in Sea of Thieves but I'm not one of them. I consider myself pretty average though, not very good either.

And I totally agree that running can be a strategy. That's why my first post here was to say it'd be difficult to differentiate legitimate running and resetting/running to have your ship safe while you board with actual toxic strategy which is happening (I try to talk to my opponent as muchh as I can and some explicitly told me their winning condition was just patience and outlasting their opponent's patience).

Does it make it an invalid strat ? Of course not. Is it annoying as hell ? Of course yes.

Now where to go from here ? I don't know. All I know is I wish there could be a way to prevent that somehow. (Encouraging "offensive" play vs "defensive", especially -again- on solo sloop battles - I don't know anything else)

And I'm really not in favour of implementing a time limit or a shrinking circle. If anything it would only exacerbate the issue and make it worse, people would wait until the gong to actually do anything

Invader ship time limit seems like a great idea but does require very fine tuning otherwise defenders will fill up on loot and just run around in circles until the invaders timer runs out so there has to be a sort of bigger or different reward if you actually sink them vs just surviving.

@geraapa1 another example of rare coming up with an idea and not fully exploring ways people can exploit them. These Devs are like addicts, they go for the quick and easy fix, but in the long run its just a bandage for a bandage. It will die like arena did as soon as people finish the commendations.