Implement server hop into native gameplay

  • Edarika
    Seafarer

    There is a long time passed since pirate's life update and, alongside, the server hop feature. And till now it remains the same, this mechanic requires tricky move to make it work: vote, go through portal, cancel. It definitely requires time and feels unnatural, so why just not add this ability to amissary system to expand it and integrate this feature with actual gameplay in the same time? Hop itself mb will require slight changes, such as losing emissary (personally i am against it), but it will be more natural than current "way".

    There is an idea to give each emissary upon reach level 5 kinda unique way to server hop:

    • For example, let`s start with GH: upon reaching lvl 5 they gain some sort of "ancient coin", that can be placed on captain's deck, and voted to open nearest portal. Tada,
      server hop!
    • Merchants can receive quest to "investigate new trading routes" with same result, opening nearest portal.
    • OOS in mean time can receive some sort of ritual circle on the deck, and interaction with it by all crew members will also open the nearest portal.

    Now let`s go to the reaper's, as main faction for this feature, and, OFK, athena:

    • For examle reapers can receave new quest item, let it be "burning eye of eternity". That while holded by all crew (with right button pressed) will make ship dissapear exactly as black pearl in tall tale (but in dark scaryyy portal).
    • Or athena receives a new shanti, to do exactly the same stuff (but with different portal animation).

    I guess, this will extend emissary system and integrate server hop more naturally, what do you think?

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  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @edarika Hard pass for me! There's enough serverhoppers as is, no need to encourage it further.

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    No.

    Let's not make it easier for that l
    L5 Reaper to take it's advantage to another server.

  • SweetSandMan
    Legend
    Insider

    Sure. Here's how I'd tweak things to make server hopping via portals more natural and (more importantly) fair. There would be 2 options...but really 1.

    -1) The current method, using the Tall Tales, would bring you fresh on a new server with no emissary flag, and base supplies. Just like a fresh spawn. "But wouldn't that make this option kinda pointless?" Yes. It would. It's supposed to be for Tall Tales.

    -2) You buy a "portal voyage" at the outpost tavern. It's 50k Gold. You slap that baby down and you can hop to another server. You keep your emissary flag. You keep your supplies. It takes the time equivalent to a normal server merge once you pass through the portal.

  • Metal Ravage
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    I really wish at some point server hopping will become a feature to SOT. Rules are pretty much in place, it just needs a better implementation lore wise.

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    Let me expand on my previous post:

    Server hopping should carry a penalty for the advantages it gives. R5, PvE + 3 Shrines, Athena 5( that managed to put 20 Athena items in a mermaid and did 7 server hops but messed up and buried that lvl5 Athena flag you got off a R1.)
    Time is the penalty. Very real. Disturbingly vicious....

    But yes, going through the ritual should be required and a short "previously on SoT" unskippable should be added to make sure there's that loss of production.

  • RedEyeSith
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @sweetsandman I'd also let people bring Loot with this option. Makes it more viable for both sides of the coin, runners and hunters. Plus it would open the potential that hunters might not bring nothing to the table when they do a hop.

    I'd also give a "Server Merge" notice like other server merges so people know a Ship entered the server that could be an R5 (though in this kind of environment it could be anything really).

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @edarika you know what I think...emissary flags should be treated like treasure when actively server hop...so they should fall into the water when going through the portal...
    Hard pass from me to your idea

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    If they won't accept it as native gameplay or provide a way to make it a gold sink then I say emissary flag needs to reset 1 full level, supplies should be quartered, or both.

    There are too many server hoppers and it hurts populations.

    Rare needs to come up with a method not only allow the play style and balance it but also encourage people to remain on their servers and not hop.

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    i dont mind server hopping, afterall anyone can disconnect and rejoin a new server. what i do mind is the advantages and bad gameplay design that comes with the ability to server hop. under no circumstances should you be allowed to keep anything above a level 1 emissary flag and there should be a limit of cannons etc you can take through depending on the time / gold cost of the server hop.

  • Hotklou9848
    Seafarer

    I'd love server hopping being officially implemented, but as the others have said I think you should lose your emissary flag. Perhaps you should amend the original post to open up the option for losing your emissary flag (and/or some or all of your supplies) as a consequence for doing a server hop, then you'll get more traction.

  • Edarika
    Seafarer

    I see debates around question if emissary flag should be lost at all. It may be considered, but personally i am against it, and thats why:

    The first one is simple, the only stuff remaining will be supplies. But with new crate feature and merchant store they are not that big issue anymore.

    Other one is, ofk, the reapers. I agree that for other emmisaries hop feature is not that relevant, and there is not so many cases when it will be actually used (seeking for required WE/FotD or getting rid of annoing dudes that sunk 10 times already). Moreover, reraising flag is already widely used to gain new emissary quest, so even losing it will not be the problem. But with reapers it just didnt work this way.

    There was a theme "give reapers reason to PvP", but i think it was incorrectly formulated. Give reapers tools to PvP - thats, in my opinion, the core issue. Running reapers is meme now, and i think the reason why 95% of this potatoes population is dudes afraid of their shadow, is that "true" reapers just getting tired really quick.
    As a reaper you need to grind lvl5 mainly on PvE to become, hm, a reaper. Or server hop from start (server hop again, hehe) to find server with reaper 4+ on it, so you will not be that bored with grind stuff.

    But what will happen, when lvl5 is finally there? Most of other emissaries already raised their sails and said bye bye. And new ones just can choose other server. So it ends up with empty server with two options: grind PvE or leave. And i think that why reapers become handy easy mod for grinders, so even existing emissaries now just ignoring their presence and dont give a damn to look on map.

    Portal hops changed this a bit, and now reapers can finally do their job as reapers (and mb this will allow to finally nerf PvE cash for reapers, cause reapers are not about PvE). And because of that, in my opinion, removing this ability will hurt faction a lot. Moreover, if hop remain as it is, PvP reapers will just continue their 5min trip on Golden Sands for quest, there is not that much time required. So, i think, there is no special advantage in this feature, it will be just move natively integrated.

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @personalc0ffee sagte in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    If they won't accept it as native gameplay or provide a way to make it a gold sink then I say emissary flag needs to reset 1 full level, supplies should be quartered, or both.

    There are too many server hoppers and it hurts populations.

    Rare needs to come up with a method not only allow the play style and balance it but also encourage people to remain on their servers and not hop.

    I don't like the idea of losing supplies with it...
    And losing 1 grade of the emissary rank is too less imo...a complete loss of the flag would be the fairest way...not only becoming lvl 1, a complete loss, so you have to go to an outpost and raise it again...

    Edit: I'd accept server hopping and keep the emissary if we could keep our voyages from the radial...a reaper V keeps his "emissary vision", so why do other emissarys lose theyr (emissary) voyages? Doesn't seem fair to me the way we have it now

  • Ghostfire1981
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Im against server hopping generally. So my counter solution would be that sacrificing the level 5 flag is the ticket to another server. You loose your flag (and loot) but keep your supplies when you change server.

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    @schwammlgott said in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    @personalc0ffee sagte in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    If they won't accept it as native gameplay or provide a way to make it a gold sink then I say emissary flag needs to reset 1 full level, supplies should be quartered, or both.

    There are too many server hoppers and it hurts populations.

    Rare needs to come up with a method not only allow the play style and balance it but also encourage people to remain on their servers and not hop.

    I don't like the idea of losing supplies with it...
    And losing 1 grade of the emissary rank is too less imo...a complete loss of the flag would be the fairest way...not only becoming lvl 1, a complete loss, so you have to go to an outpost and raise it again...

    Edit: I'd accept server hopping and keep the emissary if we could keep our voyages from the radial...a reaper V keeps his "emissary vision", so why do other emissarys lose theyr (emissary) voyages? Doesn't seem fair to me the way we have it now

    Oh course you don't, neither would I but the whole point in quartering supplies or going to rank 4 is to deincentivize server hopping. There's too much of it. It is not good for the health of server populations for all this server hopping to be going on.

    So those are my proposed solutions to combat it other than a gold sink.

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @personalc0ffee sagte in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    @schwammlgott said in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    @personalc0ffee sagte in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    If they won't accept it as native gameplay or provide a way to make it a gold sink then I say emissary flag needs to reset 1 full level, supplies should be quartered, or both.

    There are too many server hoppers and it hurts populations.

    Rare needs to come up with a method not only allow the play style and balance it but also encourage people to remain on their servers and not hop.

    I don't like the idea of losing supplies with it...
    And losing 1 grade of the emissary rank is too less imo...a complete loss of the flag would be the fairest way...not only becoming lvl 1, a complete loss, so you have to go to an outpost and raise it again...

    Edit: I'd accept server hopping and keep the emissary if we could keep our voyages from the radial...a reaper V keeps his "emissary vision", so why do other emissarys lose theyr (emissary) voyages? Doesn't seem fair to me the way we have it now

    Oh course you don't, neither would I but the whole point in quartering supplies or going to rank 4 is to deincentivize server hopping. There's too much of it. It is not good for the health of server populations for all this server hopping to be going on.

    So those are my proposed solutions to combat it other than a gold sink.

    Quartering the supplies, now that we have supply transfer, isn't really effective, because you get so many of them so fast and easy...
    Getting back to rank 4 is also just peanuts, because it's so incredibly easy to get the ranks up...
    That's what I think...

  • SweetSandMan
    Legend
    Insider

    @redeyesith said in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    @sweetsandman I'd also let people bring Loot with this option. Makes it more viable for both sides of the coin, runners and hunters. Plus it would open the potential that hunters might not bring nothing to the table when they do a hop.

    Hard pass on any loot ever going through the portal.

    The premise behind my second option is to introduce an element of risk/reward to server hopping via portals. You get to keep your supplies and emissary flag, but that 50k Gold does not guarantee that you are going to wind up on a "better" server. The only emissary that would struggle to recoup that 50k Gold specific to their faction would be Athena.

  • GrumpyW01f
    Legend
    Insider

    I don't think anything should be changed about the portals. As of now it takes around 6 minutes to serverhop through a portal.

    Most in this thread think that portal serverhopping should be nerfed to reduce serverhopping. I think you're missing the big picture here. Portal serverhopping is reducing serverhopping. With portalhopping, you do enough to hit grade 5 and then jump to a new server. I've never hopped more than three times. Even if 6 minutes is short, it's quite boring and we'll take the first server that has anything (I don't do 5-8 hour sessions anymore).

    What portalhopping is doing is fostering loot production in one server, then baiting a crew into keeping the flag and jumping to a new server. Sure, seeing emissary flags is definitely something, but in the time it takes to check 3 servers with portalhopping I could check at least 20 the regular way.

    In short, the serverhoppers lose reach because they can't check as many servers, but it still gives them something in return so they do it. If Rare nerfed portalhopping in any significant way, serverhoppers would return to the old ways and we would see them a lot more. I've only encountered portalhopping reapers 4 times since APL released. I don't see that it's a big deal.

    I see portalhopping as voting for a voyage and seeing how good the maps are. It just takes 6 minutes to put that voyage down. The crews in every server are playing Sea of Thieves and are not entitled to any form of safety.

    When you portalhop, everyone on the server has to be checking their maps regularly. That's why no sound effect is needed. When you portalhop, you are telling the entire server that you have no loot and your intentions are to get some emissary flags. Portalhopping to take out a crew at FoF is harder than serverhopping because they know you're coming.

    So I think there are good effects to portalhopping as is, and it has cons to its pros. Besides what you think about portalhopping, if nerfed it would change how the hardcore PvPers would interact with servers.

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    Sorry but no. It is unbalanced. There is no downside to portal hopping and there needs to be one. It needs to be de-incentivized or people are going to keep doing it and it is going to keep dragging server populations down.

    There are also crews server hopping at the same time as portal hopping.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @personalc0ffee said in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    Sorry but no. It is unbalanced. There is no downside to portal hopping and there needs to be one. It needs to be de-incentivized or people are going to keep doing it and it is going to keep dragging server populations down.

    There are also crews server hopping at the same time as portal hopping.

    it's gone the opposite direction due to QoL catering

    server hopping should remain because there are many reasons to hop outside of pve and pvp cheesing. It's a valuable option for people that wish to reduce their drama, intensity and negativity

    the supply situation and chain shots further incentivized and rewarded the hopping that causes damage to servers and the organic experience

    Awesomely convenient QoL stuff got added but it had significant environmental impact in a way that lowers production

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    I'd be fine with native server hopping if it had large penalty. Penalty being something like sickness that for certain duration of time (10 mins etc) halves the HP of the crew and halves speed of the entire ship with all the utilities like sails taking double time. Also add in being attacked by a special kraken upon entering new server so that the rest of the server has time to notice the new threat. It should take effort to do.

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    @arch-ideall said in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    I'd be fine with native server hopping if it had large penalty. Penalty being something like sickness that for certain duration of time (10 mins etc) halves the HP of the crew and halves speed of the entire ship with all the utilities like sails taking double time. Also add in being attacked by a special kraken upon entering new server so that the rest of the server has time to notice the new threat. It should take effort to do.

    I think that is WAY too punishing.

    It should either cost gold to keep doing it and you have to go to an outpost to buy it, can only hold 1 per crew, etc.

    Or

    It should start to eat at total number of supplies on boat.

    or both

    There needs to be SOMETHING to balance portal hopping without overly punishing the crew doing it. Portal hopping as useful and fun as it is for the various players, is not good for the health of the server especially when they combine it with server hopping.

  • Glannigan
    Sailor

    I'm in the anti server hopping camp.

    I wouldn't even know how to find it but there was a post a while back by someone and they did a very excellent job explaining in detail how it was detrimental to the organic experience the game offers and why it was a bad thing.

    Wish I could find it...

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    @themadlad94 said in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    I think one way that this could possibly be implemented is through sinking. What if when we were sunk, we were put on a new server? This would mean that scuttling can essentially be serving hopping. It would make sense lorewise since it would probably take some time to get another ship, and by the time one is acquired other ships would have come and gone. It would also help to stop people from being able to just sail back and contest their old treasure after being sunk so many times. Sinking should be viewed as an actual game over instead of a “we just lost a bit of supplies, now let’s go sink them again”.

    This is too punishing and will most likely never be implemented.

  • LouisCyphere1
    Master
    Insider

    @edarika
    I know this is somewhat off topic but I think copying the invasion mechanism in dark souls would be a cool alternative to server hopping. You’re a crew doing whatever faction and you find a randomized token of some sort similar to the red eye orb that lets you invade another server. Imagine how askelly ship spawns but it’s a player ship Invading and spawning along side another player ship. Fight to the death obviously but with with great rewards to both the invader and the invaded. I am sipping grog as I type this and am probably not articulating properly but does anyone else think this idea has merit? I don’t think it’s a terrible answer to the server hopping dilemma. I also haven’t thought it through

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @themadlad94 said in Implement server hop into native gameplay:

    I think one way that this could possibly be implemented is through sinking. What if when we were sunk, we were put on a new server? This would mean that scuttling can essentially be serving hopping. It would make sense lorewise since it would probably take some time to get another ship, and by the time one is acquired other ships would have come and gone. It would also help to stop people from being able to just sail back and contest their old treasure after being sunk so many times. Sinking should be viewed as an actual game over instead of a “we just lost a bit of supplies, now let’s go sink them again”.

    While I feel for those that get to fight the same ship over and over and over again spawning too close and after a while have better supplies or just a bit of luck; changing server after sinking will be the quite opposite and also not desirable. Lets not make it worse when we can make it better.

    Also scuttling is a means to get out of a situation you don't want to be in, loss of your ship and supplies should be enough punishment for that - not getting rid of voyages you got left or continuing on to a world event you've been hoping for &c.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Perhaps there should be an opportunity for Reapers Grade 5 who find themself on a server without any emissaries to change to another server.

    Not as soon as they sunk the last one, but when an algorithm "decides" that there isn't likely any prey for the Reaper, gives the opportunity at a cost of gold and at least one grade of Reaper to open up a Portal for a limited amount of time. The portal works as the current ones - loss of treasure, maps and in addition treasure in the Sunken Kingdom mermaids (which I think should be removed when you voluntary server hop anyway).

    As they have to give up the grade, gold and perhaps some treasure and/or opportunity for world events or non-emissary ships they are pursuing, they are guaranteed to land on a server with one or more emissaries.

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