Thoughts on DPI swiching in water?

@jadescissors32 said in Thoughts on DPI swiching in water?:

@satanicnemesis Not sure what do you mean by lag switches ?

In street fighter V you could Alt-Tab the game fast to build up lag spikes so when you were being countered you would mess up the other player.

When the player that lag switched plays, everything is normal, for the other player it's a warping/teleporting mess.

Are you the sort of person that thinks that if it's a bug with the game then it's not an exploit? That it's the game's fault? Even when knowingly breaking it to gain an advantage?

@jadescissors32 You think this is intended by the devs?

@jadescissors32 The funny part of the DPI switch is you just shoot at the centre of all that nonsense and you usually hit.
DPI switching is a little like double gunning, its not that its actually op, its just that so many people seem to have no idea how to counter it.
I'm an old Destiny 2 player, so I go by the "if its in the game, then I can use it" school of thought.

@jadescissors32 said in Thoughts on DPI swiching in water?:

@stainiak If Rare really banned somebody for using High sensitivity on either mouse or controller than yeah they owe apology.
Rare is making Microsoft Gaming services look bad.

Quality game Bugs
Servers having issues
Random bans including made by rare employees associated with streamer
Disabling content

They're not banning people for using high sensitivity settings. They're banning them for using that high sensitivity to execute an exploit in water. Having a character model bug around the screen is not intended game design, and any suggestion otherwise is idiotic.

To be clear... I'm not talking about keeping your character moving fast, I'm talking about the stuff that someone linked to earlier in the thread. That's the stuff I've reported and have been informed that players have been suspended/banned for.

@stainiak It makes no sense (at least to me) for Rare to banning people for using high dpi movement, but not the various loot moving/juggle tricks, or hiding loot by clipping it into objects, or tucking into objects (like the sloop canopy). Each one of these secures a small advantage over a crew that does not know how to use them.
I call shenanigans on actual punishments being meted out for using high dpi movement, I could be wrong, but it just does not track.

The only exploit is that you need a gaming mouse that does this or an Elite controller.

Very much like having an SSD to lower load times.

Everyone with an SSD or Series X/S is exploiting too.

SoT may not have pay to win items, but it is VERY pay to win now.

I would be very surprised if anyone was banned or even suspended for dpi switching. It's cringey when people do it, but I would not consider it cheating at all; it's literally just moving your mouse.

You asked for it. Here's the reply from Rare regarding a report I made of someone using glitching around in the water thanks to DPI switching/high sensitivity.

@stainiak Sorry Mate but this still doesn't make sense. The movement you see comes from just having high dpi on whatever control device you have.
It would be lunacy for Rare to be banning people simply for having different setting, not to mention that there are numerous other exploits that also give a small advantage, that are used by the community and SOT partners on a daily basis.
Also two other games that I know of banned and suspend some players for using some small exploits, They were Anthem and Division 2. Despite the amount of people being penalised being a very tiny portion of the player base, word spread extremely quickly and both games had to deal with a huge backlash from their communities.
So if Rare is doing as you say, then we should be hearing something, anything, but there has been nothing, no anger, no backlash, no "Rare banned me for using high dpi" post here or on the Reddit.
My money would be on that there is more to the story.

@scarecrow1771 said in Thoughts on DPI swiching in water?:

@stainiak Sorry Mate but this still doesn't make sense. The movement you see comes from just having high dpi on whatever control device you have.
It would be lunacy for Rare to be banning people simply for having different setting, not to mention that there are numerous other exploits that also give a small advantage, that are used by the community and SOT partners on a daily basis.
My money would be on that there is more to the story.

I don't get how this is so hard for people to understand. Having high movement speeds isn't an issue. Using those movement speeds to then make your character glitch around the screen while in water is the issue. They're not one and the same thing.

And as for there being more to the story, there probably is regarding this player. I only reported them for the DPI switching. Whether or not Rare received other complaints regarding them isn't for me to know. I can only go by the reply to my specific case (and this is one of a few of them I've raised).

Some of those other exploits you mention may have already been looked at by Rare, but I can't go into any details because it's possibly info for Insiders.

What would be nice is if Rare actually stopped sitting on the fence and gave us an answer either way. If it's allowed, cool, I won't report it if I see it.

@scarecrow1771 said in Thoughts on DPI swiching in water?:

So if Rare is doing as you say, then we should be hearing something, anything, but there has been nothing, no anger, no backlash, no "Rare banned me for using high dpi" post here or on the Reddit.

The player never got banned for using a high DPI. They are flicking their controls of choice at an unhuman speed in order to lag the server. The DPI being extremely high just helps them carry that exploit out easier.

People don't normally make outrage posts when they know they got banned/suspended for exploiting the game engine for their own gain.

@stainiak The fact that the exploit you is so simple to replicate is the issue. Sneeze while using high dpi and you replicate this exploit. Also the advantage gained is pretty minimal. Try it out sometime, and then see if you can remember which way is up, and where the person who was shooting at you is.

The other exploits have been around since day one, not to mention that they are used openly by SOT partners, ergo, no one is getting banned for them.

@scarecrow1771 said in Thoughts on DPI swiching in water?:

@stainiak The fact that the exploit you is so simple to replicate is the issue. Sneeze while using high dpi and you replicate this exploit. Also the advantage gained is pretty minimal. Try it out sometime, and then see if you can remember which way is up, and where the person who was shooting at you is.

The other exploits have been around since day one, not to mention that they are used openly by SOT partners, ergo, no one is getting banned for them.

A sneeze is instantaneous. You couldn't replicate this by accident unless you were taking a seizure with a mouse glued to your hand.

@satanicnemesis Again, the little I understand about servers, that does not track.
If it did, the server would spazz out evertime I shot out of a cannon. If the server were that overtaxed by high dpi, then large scale events such are Flameheart, or the Skelly fleets, or the erupting volcanos would damn near crash the server.
It would make it extremely possible for people to crash/lag the servers, and I have never seen that happening in 600+ hours.

@scarecrow1771 None of the things you have quoted is changing their XY positions anywhere near as fast with someone throwing about a mouse at an extreme DPI. AI placement is based on a predicted path. Cannons are on a set path and fairly easy to monitor, although when you land sometimes you will glitch off the dock or boat into the water while the server rolls back. Someone throwing the server 1000s of new player positional instructions in a second, not so easy to update/refresh in real time.

You asked for me to provide evidence of people being suspended/banned for doing it, I gave you the response from Rare I received when I reported it. Whether it makes sense to you or not isn't my problem. I can literally only go by the response Rare provided to my specific report.
And again, while players may not be getting banned for some of the other exploits, that says nothing about Rare patching them out.

@satanicnemesis You don't really travel that for, or that fast, you only give the appearance of that happening.
Again, what you re saying means that if I fire multiple people out of cannons all at one the game should stutter. Never seen that happen ever, not in the most chaotic battles.
You are trying to apply something from one game to fit the other.
Also the sever sends and receives player movement at timed intervals, not constantly at every conceivable moment , this is part of what causes hit reg. So the server still receives the same amount of movement updates, no matter if I move or not.

@scarecrow1771 I am not applying anything from any game to another. I am talking about how hosts push/pull data to peers. This is how servers work.

They send and receive at timed intervals, correct. It is called tickrate. How long are those intervals? A second, 5 seconds, a minute?

@stundorn Get a grip mate. All that is being discussed is high dpi setting, not speeding. The two are not even remotely comparable, and to do so is melodrama at its finest
You are focused on the wrong people here too.
If you don't like an exploit, then have the developers patch it. simple.

@satanicnemesis No idea what those intervals are, point is the server still receives the same volume of data. Spinning like a top doesn't change that. My guess is that weird bouncing around you see is client side, just your platform expressing a rather silly series of movements.

@scarecrow1771 SoT has been tested to provide an approx tick rate of 8hz-12hz depending on congestion. That means the host tries to send 8-12 packets of data per second to peers. Now when you are issuing the host hundreds of positional co-ordinates per second, it can only record a small percentage of that 8-12 times a second. And has to relay that to other players on the server who can be running a ping from 50-300. This is what causes teleporting.

The servers need to be better and this exploit needs to be eliminated (along with awful hit reg). For example, CS:GO has a tick rate of 66.

Anyway. My point is, you know that what you are doing is against the code of conduct yet are trying to absolve your behavior by pushing all the blame on Rare/Microsoft, even though you are actively going out of your way to abuse it. If someone was to get banned for using it, they wouldn't have an argument to fight it. You cannot do it by accident.

Cheat or hack. We have a zero tolerance approach to any form of in-game hacking or cheating, and transgression can result in a permanent ban.

cheat
[tʃiːt]
VERB
cheating (present participle)
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
"she always cheats at cards"

@satanicnemesis Again, if movement pulls all of that data, then when people start shooting themselves out of cannons the game should struggle. Movement data is movement data, there is no difference between moving quickly in a straight line, or around in weird circles, it's just x.y.z coodinates. I've seen plenty of people use this exploit, I've used it, never seen the game struggle. Only time I see that happen is occasionally around large islands.
It still does not track that Rare will ban for using this exploit, as there would have been plenty of complaints about that by now from the tdm community. Especially considering that it is so damn simple to do, and so widespread.
Exploits are not cheats or hacks. Hacks/cheats require outside manipulation of the game, an exploit requires only the game and developer oversight
The onus is only ever upon the developer to not put in tools that can be abused.
Use exploits, don't use exploits, that's entirely up to you, if developers don't want them used they need to patch them out.

@satanicnemesis Do us a favour and @ a deckhand and ask if dpi switching is banable and if it is, why/why not
Could save time.

@scarecrow1771 said in Thoughts on DPI swiching in water?:

@satanicnemesis Again, if movement pulls all of that data, then when people start shooting themselves out of cannons the game should struggle.

The game does struggle, watch as people stutter through the air from a cannon launch. Now that being said, the cannon has a predetermined angle and velocity before the player shoots from it. The server uses prediction and for fixed data like this and issues roll back to correct landing position. I already explained this in a previous post.

Movement data is movement data, there is no difference between moving quickly in a straight line, or around in weird circles, it's just x.y.z coodinates. I've seen plenty of people use this exploit, I've used it, never seen the game struggle. Only time I see that happen is occasionally around large islands.

This is untrue. Player-controlled coordinates on an X Y Z cannot be fully predicted. Cannons and AI can. You see the game struggle all the time. A great example of this is the (surprise, surprise) DPI exploit while in water. The water telemetry taxes the server already and is a big reason for poor hit reg and lag. You add more unrealistic positional issues to that and you are breaking the game on purpose. Thus, an exploit.

It still does not track that Rare will ban for using this exploit, as there would have been plenty of complaints about that by now from the tdm community. Especially considering that it is so damn simple to do, and so widespread.

TDM community doesn't tend to report others in TDM. How many ban posts do you normally see on SoT communities? People tend not to broadcast their ban when they know exactly why it happened.

Exploits are not cheats or hacks. Hacks/cheats require outside manipulation of the game, an exploit requires only the game and developer oversight

DPI Switching is an outside manipulation.

The onus is only ever upon the developer to not put in tools that can be abused.

Clearly not. You are playing Rares game, by their rules. They aren't playing yours.

Use exploits, don't use exploits, that's entirely up to you, if developers don't want them used they need to patch them out.

People can exploit away if they want. As long as they know they risk a suspension/ban for cheating.

@satanicnemesis Do us a favour and @ a deckhand and ask if dpi switching is banable and if it is, why/why not
Could save time.

Why didn't you just do it? @Deckhands