Swords need to be fixed.

@scottydoggie901 sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

Swords are at a good balance in my opinion... Before the update they was beyond useless and the forums were swarmed with pleas to buff them.

If you dont want to get hacked then keep your distance :) Or perhaps practise your sword skills more. Skeletons are good practise for the basics, after that just watch Youtube videos on how to become more advanced in terms of using the sword dash to your advantage etc.

Well now a lot of people complain about sword, so shouldn't it get tweaked again because of that?
Also the server problems do the sword balance no favor.

@insaiity

Well now a lot of people complain about sword, so shouldn't it get tweaked again because of that?

A lot of people think that PvP is a cancerous and toxic thing that shouldn't be in the game, does that mean we should remove it? No, just because some people don't like sword doesn't mean it should be nerfed.

Also the server problems do the sword balance no favor.

I can agree that a higher ping can allow a sword user to have longer reach, it's happened to me before. It's not super OP to me because at the end of the day, you HAVE to be close to a sword user in order for them to do damage. It is literally impossible for them to hit you medium / long range with slashes.

Here's a video I made explaining why sword isn't OP, and how to counter it.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRBHGNiB1DY

@grilledfry999 I agree that sword is a low skill weapon compared to guns, but that doesn't mean that it's OP. Sword definitely needs to be changed so that people who are good with sword are better separated than people who just spam left click with sword. With guns the separation is obvious, good gunner hit their shots, bad gunners don't.

The only reason why sword is useful is because of the stun it has. If they were to remove the stun it could work, but they would have to buff sword to do 35 damage and make it a 3 hit kill in order for it to be a valid weapon.

I made a video explaining ways that you can counter sword, and WHY sword isn't OP, it's the people's playstyles that make it OP.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRBHGNiB1DY

@kaijoi sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

@insaiity

A lot of people think that PvP is a cancerous and toxic thing that shouldn't be in the game, does that mean we should remove it? No, just because some people don't like sword doesn't mean it should be nerfed.

Well because a lot of people complained about sword being too weak it got buffed. The same concept should be applied if it is too strong and people complain, right?

Also the server problems do the sword balance no favor.

I can agree that a higher ping can allow a sword user to have longer reach, it's happened to me before. It's not super OP to me because at the end of the day, you HAVE to be close to a sword user in order for them to do damage. It is literally impossible for them to hit you medium / long range with slashes.

Here's a video I made explaining why sword isn't OP, and how to counter it.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRBHGNiB1DY

Thank you for the help, but I'm fine. I know how to counter it, but if I literally cant escape the sword if I get hit once then there is a problem. On normal ping I should be able to at least get out of the range after the 3hit combo, but with the high ping in this game they just backtrack me everytime so it is literally unescapeable if I have no sword myself, which shouldn't be the only solution.

And of course you shouldn't get hit in the first place if you dodge correctly, but then again high ping makes everything unpredictable.

@insaiity

Well because a lot of people complained about sword being too weak it got buffed. The same concept should be applied if it is too strong and people complain, right?

In some cases, but the sword is pretty balanced against doublegun. Before the buff it wasn't usable because you couldn't do enough damage before you died against doublegunners.

but if I literally cant escape the sword if I get hit once then there is a problem. On normal ping I should be able to at least get out of the range after the 3hit combo, but with the high ping in this game they just backtrack me everytime so it is literally unescapeable if I have no sword myself, which shouldn't be the only solution.

And of course you shouldn't get hit in the first place if you dodge correctly, but then again high ping makes everything unpredictable.

Agreed. I think a good change would be to buff the sword to do 35 damage a hit (3 hits and you die) But completely remove the stunlock you get, I think that would fix some of the issues with ping and still allow sword to be usable.

@kaijoi sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

@insaiity

Well because a lot of people complained about sword being too weak it got buffed. The same concept should be applied if it is too strong and people complain, right?

In some cases, but the sword is pretty balanced against doublegun. Before the buff it wasn't usable because you couldn't do enough damage before you died against doublegunners.

The sword pre-animation cancel removal was amazing and a very good and skillfull weapon. Back then it would have been able to go up against DG if there wouldn't have been that awful quick-shoot exploit.

If they just leave DG as is and revert the sword back to that point I think everything would be perfect.

but if I literally cant escape the sword if I get hit once then there is a problem. On normal ping I should be able to at least get out of the range after the 3hit combo, but with the high ping in this game they just backtrack me everytime so it is literally unescapeable if I have no sword myself, which shouldn't be the only solution.

And of course you shouldn't get hit in the first place if you dodge correctly, but then again high ping makes everything unpredictable.

Agreed. I think a good change would be to buff the sword to do 35 damage a hit (3 hits and you die) But completely remove the stunlock you get, I think that would fix some of the issues with ping and still allow sword to be usable.

That's an option, but then I think the sword hitbox to the sides should get reduced a little, so you would only do dmg when the enemy is close to being in the middle of your screen.

Also what I forgot to add in the previous post:
I know the major problem lies with servers and not with the sword in itself, even tho it is also not the best it can be. I, however, think that if there is a problem (high ping) that exists since launch, so for 2 years, you cant balance the sword around a game that would work optimally. You kind of have to balance while takeing the high ping into consideration.

@insaiity

The sword pre-animation cancel removal was amazing and a very good and skillfull weapon. Back then it would have been able to go up against DG if there wouldn't have been that awful quick-shoot exploit.

Are you talking about when you could hit the ground with your sword dash and not be stunlocked? If so that was very OP as you could just fly around like a bey blade with no consequence. Are you talking about something else?

That's an option, but then I think the sword hitbox to the sides should get reduced a little, so you would only do dmg when the enemy is close to being in the middle of your screen.

Also what I forgot to add in the previous post:

I know the major problem lies with servers and not with the sword in itself, even tho it is also not the best it can be. I, however, think that if there is a problem (high ping) that exists since launch, so for 2 years, you cant balance the sword around a game that would work optimally. You kind of have to balance while takeing the high ping into consideration.

Agreed

@insaiity said in Swords need to be fixed.:

I know the major problem lies with servers and not with the sword in itself, even tho it is also not the best it can be. I, however, think that if there is a problem (high ping) that exists since launch, so for 2 years, you cant balance the sword around a game that would work optimally. You kind of have to balance while takeing the high ping into consideration.

How often do you encounter fighting people with high ping? Genuine question, I know that vsing someone on high ping sucks. The other day I was fighting a brig crew and they were lagging a bit and I definitely felt the over extended range during that fight. Getting hit when I'm out of range, getting major backtracking. However, most of my fights are pretty good, how often do you come across this?

@kaijoi sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

@insaiity

The sword pre-animation cancel removal was amazing and a very good and skillfull weapon. Back then it would have been able to go up against DG if there wouldn't have been that awful quick-shoot exploit.

Are you talking about when you could hit the ground with your sword dash and not be stunlocked? If so that was very OP as you could just fly around like a bey blade with no consequence. Are you talking about something else?

That's part of it. But there was also the swing cancle to block faster or feint attacks, or there was no artifical delay added after slashing or weapon switching.
It's hard to explain, If you want I can link you some videos of some very good swordsmen where they use all of that.
I get that these actually were exploits but they still allowed the sword to go toe to toe with DG, if the quickshoot hadn't been a thing at that time.
(The artifical delay for gun to gun should stay or else the dg eploit would start up again.)

The fact that we get so many posts asking for different things to be nerfed or buffed tells me that overall things are pretty close to balanced. It will never satisfy everyone because we all have bias towards one side or another in the arguments.

The sword is in a decent place now, only things I would potentially change:

1. Distance the sword can hit needs a tiny bit of reining in (all those 6 foot swords are great for social distancing, less so for combat balance)
2. The sword swings need to be 1:1 with button presses, obviously limited by animation too, so many times I get caught in the sword 3x combo when I only press the sword swing twice (very noticeable when attacking base island skellies that die on 2 hits).

But at least the blocking now works as intended and I've had some decent sword 1v1s that were less infuriating as a result. You're only really at a disadvantage if you're doublegunning but then you need to be aware of your space and the pros and cons of that loadout. If my first point above is addressed, it might help a lot but that could all stem from the hitreg issues, so maybe that's the core problem.

@mferr11 sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

How often do you encounter fighting people with high ping? Genuine question, I know that vsing someone on high ping sucks. The other day I was fighting a brig crew and they were lagging a bit and I definitely felt the over extended range during that fight. Getting hit when I'm out of range, getting major backtracking. However, most of my fights are pretty good, how often do you come across this?

Everytime I play. You just have to compare the ping on SoT with other games to realise that there seems to be a serious problem.

In other games the normal ping you have is around 30ms but on SoT you can call yourself lucky if you have consistent 60ms. More often than not you are around a hundred and then it also frequently spikes up to more. And let's not event start about talking what happens when you don't play on the servers closest to you.

Other games would be deemed unplayable if they would consistently have the same ping they have in SoT, but here it somehow gets accepted.

@realstyli sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

1. Distance the sword can hit needs a tiny bit of reining in (all those 6 foot swords are great for social distancing, less so for combat balance)

Agreed.

2. The sword swings need to be 1:1 with button presses, obviously limited by animation too, so many times I get caught in the sword 3x combo when I only press the sword swing twice (very noticeable when attacking base island skellies that die on 2 hits).

It already is tho. If you only press once you only swing once, but if you press twice while the first swing is in motion the game remebers that you pressed twice and force swings your sword another time. If you take your time with hitting "swing" then it is 1:1.

But at least the blocking now works as intended and I've had some decent sword 1v1s that were less infuriating as a result.

My friends and I have a complete different experience with blocking atm.

If my first point above is addressed, it might help a lot but that could all stem from the hitreg issues, so maybe that's the core problem.

Agreed.

@insaiity said in Swords need to be fixed.:

It already is tho. If you only press once you only swing once, but if you press twice while the first swing is in motion the game remebers that you pressed twice and force swings your sword another time. If you take your time with hitting "swing" then it is 1:1.

From my experience, it doesn't seem to be the case, and why I used the skellies as an example. If I press twice it seems to do the 3x combo, so the skellies are already dead before the 3rd swing. I know they only take two hits to kill, so I only press it twice.

My friends and I have a complete different experience with blocking atm.

It might be a timing or positional thing? Maybe something I do instinctively from playing a lot of melee action games... but, so far, since the last update it seems to be working a lot better than it used to.

@realstyli sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

@insaiity said in Swords need to be fixed.:

It already is tho. If you only press once you only swing once, but if you press twice while the first swing is in motion the game remebers that you pressed twice and force swings your sword another time. If you take your time with hitting "swing" then it is 1:1.

From my experience, it doesn't seem to be the case, and why I used the skellies as an example. If I press twice it seems to do the 3x combo, so the skellies are already dead before the 3rd swing. I know they only take two hits to kill, so I only press it twice.

Hm I'll try to test that out later.

My friends and I have a complete different experience with blocking atm.

It might be a timing or positional thing? Maybe something I do instinctively from playing a lot of melee action games... but, so far, since the last update it seems to be working a lot better than it used to.

Sometimes yes, but a lot of times it just clearly goes through the block, but that could also be server related.

@insaiity said in Swords need to be fixed.:

@realstyli sagte in Swords need to be fixed.:

@insaiity said in Swords need to be fixed.:

It already is tho. If you only press once you only swing once, but if you press twice while the first swing is in motion the game remebers that you pressed twice and force swings your sword another time. If you take your time with hitting "swing" then it is 1:1.

From my experience, it doesn't seem to be the case, and why I used the skellies as an example. If I press twice it seems to do the 3x combo, so the skellies are already dead before the 3rd swing. I know they only take two hits to kill, so I only press it twice.

Hm I'll try to test that out later.

Just so you know, I play with a controller on PC, so that might factor in somehow... I could always test it with a mouse, I guess and see if I notice the same behaviour, just never got around to doing that

My friends and I have a complete different experience with blocking atm.

It might be a timing or positional thing? Maybe something I do instinctively from playing a lot of melee action games... but, so far, since the last update it seems to be working a lot better than it used to.

Sometimes yes, but a lot of times it just clearly goes through the block, but that could also be server related.

It could be that. I've not had a lot of server lag issues lately. My ping is generally in the 50s/60s (not the best it ever was but better than the 80-100 it was regularly a few months back).

@grilledfry999 said in Swords need to be fixed.:

If I were better at the game then it wouldn't be as annoying but I suck and I'm tired of these no skill kids just spamming their sword. Please fix this its driving me crazy.

The fix is easy, get better? Don't you think you are providing the exact reason why you believe that pulling out a sword and just swinging is actually good?

A couple of things that can help you:

1. If you like using two guns: Grab a couple of blunderbombs and use them... they are great tools against sword users.
2. If you like using two guns: Keep your distance or use the Blunder/EoR combo, the blunderbuss is a great weapon versus sword users.
3. If you like using a sword, simply block and use the third hit knockback or block/jump movement or combination of the two to position yourself better and beat them.

People act like running forward and swinging is so hard to counter. The close quarter combat in this game is mainly: Positioning, Positioning and a bit of aim.

If anything in the game needs fixing it is hit registration, most of the range people talk about here in regards to the sword is also caused by this issue and the tick rate of the servers.