Sea of Thieves' greatest gameplay problem - the melee combat

  • I came back to this game after I got burnt out a year and a half ago. Back then I had three major problems with the gameplay:

    1. there was not enough things to do on islands
    This has been fixed. There are books, treasures everywhere, all these different items in barrels, cooking spots etc. If your buddy searches for treasure you can spend your time running around the island and you will never run out of things to collect and do which was not the case back then.

    2. there was not enough things to do while sailing
    This has been fixed as well. I remember times where you had to play that same old melody for 15 minutes because the outpost was far away and there was nothing to do. It was not much fun after several hundred hours. Now we have fishing, cooking and megalodon, kraken, skele ship encounters every few moments. Just holding the harpoon and waiting for a barrel is more fun than anything before. Great job!

    3. melee combat was TERRIBLE
    Sadly, this is still the case. Back in the alpha I collected data from more than 800 players and presented it here on these forums to Rare so I could convince them nobody likes the lock-on in melee fights. In the next patch the lock-on was gone and for a moment I thought we have maybe saved the combat. I was wrong. The problem with combat is much deeper.

    I think the whole combo system must go. There needs to be a new system that is way more responsive and fluid. Sword fighting should be a beautiful dance, clash of blades and test of reflexes. There should at the very least be faster and more responsive block and a parry mechanic.

    Also why is fighting skeletons so terrible? Why does every hit feel like hitting wall with a spoon? Compare it to Dark Souls or Diablo where you can feel the weight of your weapon and every swing is so damn satisfying you could be killing these enemies for hours? Only satisfaction I get is when I encounter a low-level skeleton and one shot him. Try to fight a golden skeleton without water it highlights how unsatisfying the combat is. Golden non-rusty skeleton should have huge armor but fighting them even in the shiny form should be fun – yet it is not. There needs to be more impact to every swing, perhaps weak spots, or some other mechanic you can utilize (maybe the aforementioned parry). The fatigue after combo/heavy strike must go. Either balance it in a different way or introduce stamina. Satisfying combat consists of mechanics, animations, and sound. Sound design must reflect the new weighty combat too.

    This game fixed almost every flaw it used to have, and this is one of the few remaining and perhaps the biggest one. Check the suggestions, there is like 5 other threads on the frontpage talking about cutlass problems or PvP melee problems – that’s just a symptom of fundamentally flawed melee combat model. You can try to balance the damage forever, but the truth is – it will never be truly good before it is reworked.

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  • @eridanfresh

    i do agree in general but want to pint out it is not only melee, but the whole Pirate to Pirate combat.

    the fact that we have to board to sink another ship to me is bad. i would like ship to ship combat skills like maneuvering and canoneer skills are more important than boarding and to be good with doublegun or a cutlass combo.

    TTK a player imho should be drastically longer to have fights at least. All we have now is pew pew dead or slash slash dead.
    Rarely there are longer lasting fights where people "dance" dash, block, run, evade, hit.
    you have that if you duell someone maybe.

  • @bugaboo-bill said in Sea of Thieves' greatest gameplay problem - the melee combat:

    the fact that we have to board to sink another ship to me is bad. i would like ship to ship combat skills like maneuvering and canoneer skills are more important than boarding and to be good with doublegun or a cutlass combo

    True, but I feel like if they change this (boarding) there would be alot of people that wouldn't like it..
    Because it has been like this from the start and it is basicly how we know sea of thieves is like.

    Fixes would be okay to see and small changes, but a Major change would make the game feel like a different game.
    Those are just my thoughts..
    But I agree!

    Happy sailing!

  • @bugaboo-bill
    TTK is an interesting topic. I agree. I think what any pirate game shall strive for is to have combat that resembles that famous scene from the first Pirates of The Caribbean where Jack Sparrow fights Will Turner. Of course, it's hard to make game work like this but imagine if sword-fighting was more about using your environment, doing dirty tricks, and having these long amazing duels.

    My post was more about the PvE side of the things but I can't agree more with the fact that PvP sword-fighting shouldn't be "slash slash dead".

  • @jumli7 i also agree here - i had this discussion in my own crew. A lot like the Pirate to Pirate fights and the ship fights are ok to have.
    Well i for example played PotBS and Naval Action before and i came here for Ship combat mostly - and you still can do a lot with good maneuvering and cannoneer skills.

    I also dont know what to do or how to fix it. I would like tractable ladders for example. you can lower them from the water, but it needs some time, so only if the ship stands still.
    I also like to board a chaser drop their anchor or whatever, but what does it do?
    it only prolongs the time to fight or it makes the whole thing so no fight at all happens.
    Well i'm really splt about that. But i also have very tedious and lame PvP situations what were only about boarding, running, spawnkilling and less or zero about ship to shipp combat, what is sad imho.

    I have no solution and i agree - to change it too drastically will drive away a lot of players who like Pirate to Pirate fights more than Ship to Ship combat.

  • @eridanfresh PotBS was a little like this, but yeah i cant say i liked it very much - but i liked the game in general and Ship fights :D

  • I agree with both @EridanFresh and @jumli7.

    Melee combat is the weakest part of the game and mostly feels like a boring means to an ends. However I'm not sure what they could do at this point without completely changing the game and angering a ton of people. I think what they're currently doing (continuing to work on hit reg, tweaking battle animations and sounds to make hits more satisfying, and adding more strategic variety to combat) is the best course.

  • @eridanfresh said in Sea of Thieves' greatest gameplay problem - the melee combat:

    Sword fighting should be a beautiful dance, clash of blades and test of reflexes.

    Romanticising sword combat like this is probably the worst thing you could do. Drawing out sword fights isn't going to work when you can just get shot for 50%+ damage, which will just force more people to abandon sword combat again.

    It sounds fun in theory, but in practical application your just making it weaker.

  • I'd love to see some minor changes in sword combat as well. Even though it is and always will be secondary weapon as long as there's guns involved.

    I feel like even slowing the swings down just a bit and removing the 3 strike combo would make sword fights more fluid. Maybe add hold/fake strike to bait enemy to lower block... But mainly I'd like to see swords slowed down a bit, it's maybe one big reason why people just spam.

  • In regards to TTK, why not an adjustment to the damage produced by firearms?

    Blunder: 90dmg (9pp), 100% current knockback.
    Eye of Reach: 60dmg, 25% current knockback.
    Flintlock: 35dmg, 10% knockback.


    Current:
    EoR + Sword: 2 Shots, or 1 Shot + 2 Swings
    EoR + Flintlock: 2 Shots.
    EoR + Blunder: 1-Many Shots.
    Flintlock + Sword: 2 Shots, or 1 Shot + 2 Swings
    Flintlock + Blunder: 1-Many Shots.
    Blunder + Sword: 1-Many Shots, 1-Many Shots + 0-4 Swings

    Suggested:
    EoR + Sword: 2 Shots, or 1 Shot + 2 Swings
    EoR + Flintlock: 2-3 Shots.
    EoR + Blunder: 2-Many Shots.
    Flintlock + Sword: 3 Shots, 2 Shots + 2 Swings, or 1 Shot + 3 Swings
    Flintlock + Blunder: 2-Many Shots.
    Blunder + Sword: 2-Many Shots, 1-Many Shots + 1-4 Swings

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