Why Not Remove The Guns?

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    I belive I've hit on a solution fot the various exploits and balance issues concerning the guns: Just delete them. If you think about it, they don't really add anything to the combat.

    Against skeletons, they're more or less useless, save for when you're sniping a boss from your ship, which is boring and an exploit.

    Against pirates, they only serve to hurt the swordplay. The Blunderbuss punishes close range fighting, and introduces an ever present threat of instant death without warning. The Pistol and Eye of Reach (basically just 1 gun) serve as substitute Blunderbusses, incentive running away, make bunny-hopping obligatory, and turn underwater battles into contests of who-saw-who first and hit reg contests. They also make aim an important skill, which would be nice for a shooter, which Sea of Thieves is not.

    For all their costs to combat, they don't provide many benefits. You could argue they punish mistimed sword lunges, but the sword already does that. You could argue they make spacing an important skill, but spacing in this game is a matter of running away from people.

    If the guns were removed, swordplay, the closest thing to an in-depth and skilled combat system the game has to offer, could florish. Hit registration, double-gunning, balance and other issues would be solved.

    The only issue caused is with gunpowder. For keg skellies, one can just take away their ability to cancel the fuse. Now you can blow them up by just running at them and then away from them. You would also lose the ability to remotely detonate kegs, but I don't think that was a good mechanic to begin with.

    Edit: Another idea would be to keep just the pistol, give it knockback and a stagger, but reduce damage to 20. Now it's a spacing tool, mind game, remote barrel detonator, and a niche finisher. I feel in this state it would compliment, but not outshine the sword, like the guns do currently.

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  • Venomous Sloth7
    Commander
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    I like having the guns in the game. I think if you just had a sword then fighting would become very monotonous. Being able to switch breaks the monotony. Also I like having the option to snipe a keg someone has or is holding. I shoot kegs in the water with barrels alot. I can shoot at players approach or chasing. Guns offer too much variety to be rid of them completely. Also I wouldn't be able to do keg flips and shoot them in the air. It's sooooo fun. Kind of a mini game in itself. It is so much fun to get other pirates involved and you all have a great time laughing and shooting barrels. Please Rare never remove being able to do that! Keg flips alone should make you want to keep guns in the game😊

  • BRUNK
    Marauder
    Insider

    I hope this is a troll post!! The combat system is already really basic; why would you then take away 3/4 of the already basic combat?! And no, I’m sorry, I completely disagree with you about the sword. If they had the sword only and didn’t change the sword combat at all from where it is now it would take all skill and strategy from pvp. All sword play is right now is a m1/ right trigger spam fest. They need to put the sword back to the way it was at launch. And they need to keep guns and load out possibilities the same to keep strategy and skill into pvp.

  • UrihamRayne
    Legend
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    Founder

    I belive I've hit on a solution for the various dumb posts and really silly ideas in the forums: Just delete the forum.

  • Fllw3rb0y
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @wilbymagicbear Why???? like seriously why. Just add a shield or something that can block bullets to counter this. dont remove an integral part of the game.

  • Archangel Timmy
    Legend
    Insider

    Require load-outs to consists of 1 sword and 1 firearm, done.

  • SimpleLyricc
    Seafarer

    @wilbymagicbear you trolling? I always use my gun. Only reason I ever use my sword is to finish of enemies. How are you supposed to damage the Meg or the Kraken if you have no cannon balls? How do you expect us to take down skeleton lords with just swords? How do you expect the already pretty bland PvP to survive when there is only one option? You my friend sound like a salty player that only like using the sword and is getting killed by people using guns. While yes they do need to do some serious changes to PvP taking 3/4 of it out is definitely not one of them.

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    @fllw3rb0y said in Why Not Remove The Guns?:

    @wilbymagicbear Why???? like seriously why. Just add a shield or something that can block bullets to counter this. dont remove an integral part of the game.

    I seriously doubt Rare is capable of that. I also don't see where the guns are integral.

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    @brunk said in Why Not Remove The Guns?:

    I hope this is a troll post!! The combat system is already really basic; why would you then take away 3/4 of the already basic combat?! And no, I’m sorry, I completely disagree with you about the sword. If they had the sword only and didn’t change the sword combat at all from where it is now it would take all skill and strategy from pvp. All sword play is right now is a m1/ right trigger spam fest. They need to put the sword back to the way it was at launch. And they need to keep guns and load out possibilities the same to keep strategy and skill into pvp.

    Guns don't constitute 3/4 of the combat. They constitute, I'd say, -1/2. They don't add much, only detract from what exists. Reverted sword would be nice. What is the skill and strategy in shooting someone, other than aim?

  • WilbyMagicBear
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    @venomous-sloth7 said in Why Not Remove The Guns?:

    I like having the guns in the game. I think if you just had a sword then fighting would become very monotonous. Being able to switch breaks the monotony. Also I like having the option to snipe a keg someone has or is holding. I shoot kegs in the water with barrels alot. I can shoot at players approach or chasing. Guns offer too much variety to be rid of them completely. Also I wouldn't be able to do keg flips and shoot them in the air. It's sooooo fun. Kind of a mini game in itself. It is so much fun to get other pirates involved and you all have a great time laughing and shooting barrels. Please Rare never remove being able to do that! Keg flips alone should make you want to keep guns in the game😊

    I feel that the gun meta we have now is monotonous. The best loadout is objectively Blunderbuss and scope pistol for Xbox and Pistol and scope pistol. All of these are just point and click. Gets stale real fast. The Sword has a little substance to it, but it gets outclassed by guns at every turn. The most intresting way to play is the least rewarding, and that's no good.

    Thinking about it though, I thought of a mild edit one could make to improve the guns. Delete the scope pistol and the instakill pistol, and have the regular pistol do only 20 damage, but also have solid knockback and stagger it's target. Gunpowder can still be shot, but the pistol becomes complimentary to the sword, rather than replacing it. Now it's a spacing tool, mindgame, and remote barrel detonator instead of a point, click.

  • Fllw3rb0y
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @wilbymagicbear COMBAT??? the guns are integral in pvp combat

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    @fllw3rb0y How so? What do guns add?

  • gatorwocky
    Captain
    Insider

    @wilbymagicbear The ability to attack at range.

    This has to be trolling.

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    @gatorwocky Let's get deeper here. What does attacking at range add?

  • JofJJay
    Marauder

    @wilbymagicbear Don't you think it would very awkward if this was implemented, and then when I see someone at range, I am unable to pull my sniper out and shoot them? (Coming from someone who is against double gun and does not use it)

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    @jofjjay said in Why Not Remove The Guns?:

    @wilbymagicbear Don't you think it would very awkward if this was implemented, and then when I see someone at range, I am unable to pull my sniper out and shoot them? (Coming from someone who is against double gun and does not use it)

    Just run over and slap them with a cutlass.

  • JofJJay
    Marauder

    @wilbymagicbear Not exactly the easiest thing to do when they are on the other side of an island.

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
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    Founder

    I'm really tired of being hit by cannonballs... I think a solution would be to remove them from the game.

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    @jofjjay So you just happen to spot some guy on the other side of the island, and you can't run over there for some reason, but you still have to kill them, and you're gonna be able to land 2 sniper shots beforw they move behind a rock or something? This feels very niche.

  • ajm123
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    Blunders are amazing on skeletons have fun with your sword vs gold skeletons. I would agree with making the sword play more like
    Chivalry. More melee weapons with different speeds/weights would be nice addition removing guns is absurd

  • JofJJay
    Marauder

    @wilbymagicbear I can run over there, but it is not exactly efficient and also, just because you cannot kill them with the gun does not mean it isn't useful.

  • BaronBrr
    Commander
    Insider

    riddle me this. what would they replace the guns with? we already have a sword and the one we have is super clunky.
    we need a ranged combat.

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @wilbymagicbear shut up guns are part of the game troll post @Deckhands

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    @closinghare208 Everything in the game is part of the game. What's your point?

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    @jofjjay I'm not convinced you'll be able to kill them without going over there. Even if you did, there's usually a reason for you to go over after you killed them anyway. This just feels like a very niche situation. Island combat is pretty rare in of itself, nevermind this. Even after that, I don't think this situation makes up for the many drawbacks of having the guns, at least in their current state.

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    @baronbrr Nothing. The absence of guns would be better than the current ones.

    That said, you could complement the sword by keeping the pistol, giving it high knockback and a stagger, but reducing it to 20 damage. Now it serves as a spacing tool, mindgame, remote barrel detonator, and a niche finisher, all in one.

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    @ajm123 said in Why Not Remove The Guns?:

    Blunders are amazing on skeletons have fun with your sword vs gold skeletons. I would agree with making the sword play more like
    Chivalry. More melee weapons with different speeds/weights would be nice addition removing guns is absurd

    Absurd, maybe, but I think it's a good idea. I suppose you'd have the buff sword damage against wet gold skellies.

  • Lord Spark 0
    Castaway

    @wilbymagicbear

    Dude stop trolling.

    You ask to dive deeper in the purpose of guns. You sound like you're only describing one singular scenario where you are standing a mere few feet away from your opponent.

    Guns have many uses. I can shoot skeleton barrels at a distance. I have shot many barrels aboard other ships while being chased.

    I have seen other and I have attacked barrels in crows nests.

    Barrels aside, I have sucessfully killed people in Arena (and in Adventure mode tho not as much) off of their cannons while they were shooting at my/friends ship.

    Guns can be used as flares. When looking for that precious loot in the water, I always shoot up into the air to reveal the location for my friend.

    Guns are handy vs monsters (sharks/kraken/meg).

    Guns are unique to the gold skeletons (tho fire now makes it a little easier I must admit).

    There are commendation challenges specifically for guns so it adds a depth of achievement for us players..

    Heck the sniper can be a replacement tool instead of the spyglass as they both benefit to the same draw distance. Instead of switching, you get the benefit of having target already in your sights.

    Do you really need to ask?

  • WilbyMagicBear
    Ship Mate
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    Founder

    @lord-szarvas said in Why Not Remove The Guns?:

    @wilbymagicbear

    Dude stop trolling.

    You ask to dive deeper in the purpose of guns. You sound like you're only describing one singular scenario where you are standing a mere few feet away from your opponent.

    Guns have many uses. I can shoot skeleton barrels at a distance. I have shot many barrels aboard other ships while being chased.

    I have seen other and I have attacked barrels in crows nests.

    I adressed most of these in the post, but I think there's an even better solution: Keep just the pistol, give it knockback and a stagger, but reduce damage to 20. Now it's a spacing tool, mind game, remote barrel detonator, and a niche finisher. I feel in this state it would compliment, but not outshine the sword, like the guns do currently.

  • Lord Spark 0
    Castaway

    @wilbymagicbear

    You haven't addressed anything. You've disagreed and provided metrics without any concrete proof into what you are saying. 1/2 of combat? Nah, I don't think so.

    If you ever played Arena, the try-hards usually end up using some form of double gun combos. Either pistol/sniper, or blunder/pistol, or blunder/sniper. Sword is good in Arena to quickly move between islands and ships for boarding. And you can use it while jumping, essentially. The problem is they removed the stun so a blunder has a way better chance of winning in a 1v1..

    And the exploit hasn't be addressed for double-gunning in sequence.. Thats the problem and people here have been saying it for a long time now.

    Get rid of guns or limit to only having a pistol? I don't think so.

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @wilbymagicbear said in Why Not Remove The Guns?:

    @closinghare208 Everything in the game is part of the game. What's your point?

    then why did you say to remove the mechanics

  • JofJJay
    Marauder

    @wilbymagicbear What about ship combat? How am I supposed to hit that guy on the cannon with a sword when I am on my ship and I am unable to make my cannons able to face them reasonably? The problem with removing guns, or keeping only pistol and nerfing it into the ground and making it basically useless is that it makes it so that without being on the ship or having access to cannons you cannot deal damage at range. Which is a problem.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
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    Founder

    This is the dumbest thread yet.

  • Dark Paladin000
    Ship Mate

    I like having guns but only if they kill skeletons or other players if they're not going to kill anybody in their pointless

    Example skeletons are deadly accurate with any gun they have well you can shoot them point blank in the face and nothing happened

    There's even times where you hit the button to swing your sword or shoot and they won't even shoot

    I also love how some human players can kill me and my crew about one or two shots and then we walk up behind somebody and shoot them point blank and nothing happened so yes something needs to be done combat is the worst I've ever seen in any game I've played in years

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    That's an interesting idea. If the players had to sword-kill you, it would definitely improve the player interactions as you could talk to people without the danger of being killed at range which happens most of the time when you do it now.

    As much as I love the brainstorming tho, removing the guns entirely isn't the best solution. Removing their ability to kill on the other hand, like the flintlock change you mentioned, that's the way to go. It would fix a lot of issues if the guns were less effective at killing than they are now.

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