Ship balance

  • Chiggn Nuggy
    Sailor
    Insider
    Founder

    Ship balance is broken since the harpoon update.

    This was before the harpoon update:

    Sloops:

    • fastest against wind
    • slowest with the wind
    • slowest with side wind
    • best for solo/duo play
    • best for tight turns and mobility
    • one ladders on each side
    • one cannon on each side

    Brigs:

    • fastest with side wind
    • 2nd against wind
    • 2nd best with the wind
    • 3 man ship
    • a very "good in every situation" ship
    • one ladder on each side
    • 2 cannons on each side

    Galleons:

    • fastest with the wind
    • 2nd best with side wind
    • slowest against wind
    • 4 man ship
    • has insane fire power and super tanky, lacks in mobility
    • one ladder on each side
    • 4 cannons on each side

    With hapoons, the brig and the galleon gain the advantage of making tight turns just like the sloop also being able to harpoon other ships and pull them to themselves/keep up with them moving around.

    The worst part is now a sloop which is against the wind can be harpooned by a brig which is also against the wind and be pulled to the brig. Harpoons really messed up the balance of ships in general.
    Same with brigs in side-wind and getting harpooned by a galleon.

    I think Rare needs to revisit the ship balance.

    Why does the sloop only have 1 cannon, the brig 2 cannons but the galleon 4 cannons? Shouldnt it be 1-2-3 ?

    Also if we look at the ladders. Why has the sloop while only having 1 cannon on each side the same amount of ladders as a galleon which has 4 cannons each side?

    That means galleons have 4x the fire power of the sloop while having the same amount of "boarding defense".
    I would even argue galleons have better "boarding defense" anyway since 2 players can watch the ladders, 1 guy can steer and the other guy can use the canons.

    This is super unbalanced.

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  • EGGamer13
    Legend
    Insider

    If you think so... The sloop has also the harpoons. If you know how to use them, the sloop is equally balanced.

  • Chiggn Nuggy
    Sailor
    Insider
    Founder

    @eggamer13
    How? The sloop was already able to make tight turns. I find myself barely using the harpoons on a sloop when maneuvering through tight spaces.

    On the other bigger ships I can just harpoon a rock or an island to make quick turns.

  • JofJJay
    Marauder

    @chonky-lemon I see how your point could effect the game in theory but I am yet to see this actually affect the game in my own personal experiences (not that this means anything, but I cannot see your point in the actual game itself until it does affect me personally). If you are running away properly you are well out of harpoon range. Even if you are in harpoon range, you can still use your actual maneuverability to throw them off, Im not an expert with the harpoons but isn't a tighter turning with helm more reliable than a tight turning circle with harpoon? You can also shoot a harpoon when it is hooked on and it will detach. With a good shot with the sniper you can also keep people away from the harpoons when you are on sloop. As for higher boarding defense on galleon, I have to disagree on that, It is higher up in the air so you cannot see boarders as easily. You are also not able to stay in complete cover and hit boarders through a window (which can be opened and closed btw) on a galleon. Not that I ever see that used but that is because most people I board don't realize till I have killed 1 of them and dropped the anchor. Ladder is also not located in as central of a location on the galleon. It also has more space to jump around on so its easier to fight 1v4's on. (even at 200 ping) I think the ships are fairly well balanced, if anything sloop is too OP but its balanced, just the only ship to be actually OP if we are being realistic. You also forgot that sloop sinks the slowest, is easiest to bail, easiest to repair, easiest to (insert task here). Also around half of its entire decks are a 1.5 level deck so that is great.

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @chonky-lemon boats are fine as is, if you let them get with in harpoon range you already messed up.

  • RCSnipes100
    Lord
    Insider
    Founder

    @chonky-lemon One thing to remember as it has worked for me. If a galleon is able to get a harpoon into you then turn your ship tightly and it will release. But the angles have to be right so that they can't just harpoon you again. I think the balance is fine. But the harpoons can indeed make it more challenging for a solo slooper.

  • TehStepford
    Master
    Insider

    oh, look. another 'buff the sloop' thread.

  • Chiggn Nuggy
    Sailor
    Insider
    Founder

    @tehstepford

    Oh look another person who obviously cant read the OP!

  • Chiggn Nuggy
    Sailor
    Insider
    Founder

    @jofjjay

    I dont completly disagree with the first half of your post.

    If you are running away properly you are well out of harpoon range.

    This doesnt have to be the case. For example I had a situation where I was at an island still getting my loot and a brig ambushed me, I hurried back to my ship, harpooned the rest of my loot and sailed away against the wind. The brig managed to catch up since its also "fast" against the wind and was in harpooning range and managed to harpoon me as well.
    Before the harpoons he wouldnt have managed to harpoon me and I would have escaped without issues.

    I honestly think they need to buff the speed for sloop and brig in the "worst-best possible wind out-come" e.g. buff sloop speed against the wind, buff brig speed in side wind.

    You can also shoot a harpoon when it is hooked on and it will detach

    This is unfortunatly super glitchy and the hitboxes/hitreg for the harpoons are really weird and buggy.

    As for higher boarding defense on galleon, I have to disagree on that, It is higher up in the air so you cannot see boarders as easily.

    The galleon has planks you can stand on to check for boarders on the ladders. So this point is invalid.

    It also has more space to jump around on so its easier to fight 1v4's on.

    This can also be argued for the defenders. And most of the time its really hard to board anyway with 2 people just camping the ladders.
    The compact size or the sloop also makes it super easy to be spawn killed if we use this argument.

    You also forgot that sloop sinks the slowest, is easiest to bail, easiest to repair, easiest to (insert task here).

    It stops being easiest when youre solo slooping.
    "Sloop sinks the slowest" - is only in an ideal way arguable. That means it compares all ships with every hole possible to each other but thats not really realistic. You also got 4 people on a gally who could potentially all bail and repair the ship. Making it also pretty much impossible to sink.

  • JofJJay
    Marauder

    @chonky-lemon I mean standing on the planks is pretty well, risky, as you could fall off and yeah I wouldn't recommend doing it. I personally only have problems defending the galleon when im defending against boarders, on sloop and brig I can prevent them much more easily since there tends to be more time between realizing the boarder exists and actually having to dispatch of them. On spawnkilling the sloop, yeah it is easiest to spawnkill, but honestly if you got boarded and are on sloop you are pretty much dead. Also sloop sinking the slowest is very useful when solo slooping, I cant tell you how many times I have saved my sloop from sinking when it is literally 5 seconds away from sinking. If you have every hole in a galleon open and have 4 people bailing gl and hf keeping it afloat, the distance between bailing makes that not work, when you have 2 people (or even 1 possibly) on a sloop and the hull is nonexistent you still stand an ok chance.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    When was the last time you had all 4 of your galleon crew bailing and repairing mid-fight? When was the last time your crew succeeded at that task? If you've reached that point, well, let's just say the odds aren't in your favor.

    If you get harpooned by a bigger ship while sailing a sloop, you have 2 effective options to release it:

    1. Shoot or cut their harpoon (at the gun-end).
    2. Pull away - their harpoon can only stretch and bend so much.

    Ship balance overall is fine, IMO.

  • NunoAzuldimeter
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @chonky-lemon I agree with the Cannons difference.
    Never made much sense to me as well.

    Why the Galleon has a cannon for each crew member when the others just miss one.

    It should be 1 - 2 - 3 or 2 - 3 - 4 per side.

  • Glannigan
    Sailor

    The only ship that needs a buff is the Galleon.

    The amount of difficulty and work required is not rewarded.

    Just sail the seas the game will
    Show you - Galleon is by far the least played ship.

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @chonky-lemon i understand your story but in large open bodies of water the harpoon has nothing to attach to, and then still the actual weight of the ship has alot to do with how it responds to a tug from the harpoon.

    If i ever wanted to get away from a ship as a solo slooper i never had any troubles doing so.

    1 ship weight affects how it responds to harpooning
    2 all three ships have a difference in how deep they are in the water (sloop can pass trough shallower bits then the galleon for example)
    3 turning radius is stil smaller for a sloop then the others due to weight
    4 harpooning takes away a large amount of speed compared to steering etc

  • CaliCorsairCat
    Legend
    Insider

    I have posted many times that sloop need a little love and for me, speed is the way to make them better. They should be able to better pick their battles, and to hit and run using their superior maneuverability. I think the sloop needs a buff to its offensive capabilities but also needs to sink a tad faster as well

  • Kaloudz
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    Speaking specifically about the part about cannons, I would agree. IMO, it should be sloop 2, brig 3, and gally 4. I highly doubt there will ever be any change on this front, but that’s something I would love to see.

    That said, I’d also like to see the removal of the jail, and just have handcuffs instead; rendering the player unable to interact with anything, and freeing up some space on each ship.

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