Please, for the love of sailing-ships, negate the use of "dummy-sails"

@chlodovicus

I too hate the fact that SOT isn't very realistic. I mean a gigantic glowing skull in the sky? Skeletons spawning from the underworld? A Megalodon? A Kraken? The ability to fire yourself out of a cannon? I mean this game just isn't very realistic at all!

@kaijoi , that was a pretty condescending and pointless remark. Do you have any constructive comments instead? I mean, why not fix this small issue? You might not appreciate it, but others might. It wouldn't cost you anything. On the contrary, you might learn a bit more about sailing.

@chlodovicus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVAdt5bH2tE

that was a pretty condescending and pointless remark. Do you have any constructive comments instead? I mean, why not fix this small issue? You might not appreciate it, but others might. It wouldn't cost you anything.

It also costs me nothing TO tell a joke.

@chlodovicus said in Please, for the love of sailing-ships, negate the use of "dummy-sails":

@kaijoi , that was a pretty condescending and pointless remark. Do you have any constructive comments instead? I mean, why not fix this small issue? You might not appreciate it, but others might. It wouldn't cost you anything. On the contrary, you might learn a bit more about sailing.

Hi there,

I don't think it was pointless mate and I don't think he meant any offence either - but just pointing out that perhaps you need to read between his lines and that realism isn't at the top of RARES list so you may be disappointed with their response. You might not mind...but there is probably a mechanical reason as to why it is the way it is.

Cheers

Not to blanketly defend this, but there might exist an actual reason why this is kept. Maybe the fix will just cause more problems, or the physics of the game just can't do it. If it is anything to do with physics, that is no small feature to fix. At this point, I welcome anyway to get speed while sailing against wind. Going against wind just feels like a giant time waster. As of now, trying to tack sails feels like there is no improvement on speed, so why would I bother with it?

@gunner-rat

Hello,

There are plenty of instances where RARE approximates realism. I'm not contending the obviously unrealistic aspects of the game. So yeah, I think the comment was pointless. When playing in this fantasy-world there is plenty of immersion. But "dummy-sail(s)" however, limits the sailing experience.

If the sailing dynamics were too realistic though, nobody would get anything done and sailing would be very tedious. So my guess is that this specifik mechanic is included to make sure that ships have a forward momentum no matter the circumstances. But if this was tweaked a bit, so the use of "dummy-sail(s)" would be slightly slower than tacking, everyone would naturally choose to angle sails and tack. Sloops naturally still being fastest against the wind while being able to tack against the wind at the tightest angles.

It's by far more fun and enjoyable to chase or be chased by a ship which uses the sailing/wind dynamics which are already in effect imo. My wish is that more Pirates get to experience a fuller sailing experience. Also, I might not need to keep explaining to new and veteran Pirates the actual dynamics of sailing a Sailing Ship. Quite a few Pirates really believe that "dummy-sails" is a real-life dynamic.

I'm convinced that tweaking this sailing-mechanic would make the game more enjoyable as a whole, since sailing is such an integral part.

Happy sailing!

@gundy-the-shark

Thank you!

@nabberwar

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. I imagine, from my limited programming xp, that only a few values needs to be tweaked. The physics-engine should be unaffected. I can't see how this might cause any new problems, but maybe someone with more insight can enlighten this subject?

Happy Sailing!

@luciansanchez82

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. I'm suggesting that even if you choose to sail directly against the wind, your ship would still be faster with your sail(s) angled to either side instead of being angled against the wind. However you choose to sail, your speed would be at least the same as now.

So there would be absolutely no difference for you regarding your speed. But you might be even faster if you tacked instead. Crews who actually use the wind and tack accordingly would naturally have a skill-based advantage; In fact, some would argue that they already do have a clear advantage.

Happy Sailing!

It seems unimportant for the devs to worry about this since they need to fix all their bugs and add more content.

@elderterdkin
Yeah, you're probably right. But I hope that I can bring this issue to their attention nonetheless.

It wouldn't require a lot of tweaking as far as I know. But there are a lot of bugs, exploits and glitches that also needs to be fixed. But hey, if there is enough support for tweaking the sailing mechanics it will probably happen. If only we could get some streamers behind this...

I am aware of dummy sails but from my understanding angling the sails so that you catch wind does in fact make the ship faster?

For a real life former sailor who's specialised in sailing Tall Ships,

Welcome to video game physics.

@alphawolf123905

this supposed to be a joke, right?

What do you think it is?

@robby0316
Hello,

When sailing against the wind at an angle of 0 to about 40 degrees, it is in fact faster to angle the sails against the wind. At least over shorter distances. This is completely counter-intuitive and illogical. That being said, I rarely ever use dummy-sails and I swear to using proper sailing techniques instead. Overall, I would say that tacking is indeed faster when travelling longer distances on the Sea. At the very least tacking lets you feel like you're moving somewhere. The fastest route with a Sailing Ship between two points is almost never a straight line.

When faced with a head wind, I usually tack about 45 degrees to either side depending on the environment. After a while the wind changes direction and I can tack back on course. This has proven to be faster and less tedious in my experience.

Happy Sailing!

@enf0rcer

Hello,

Thanks for your feedback!

That's interesting. I didn't know that RARE already had tweaked "dummy-sails". Do you know when or where I can find a related thread?

It's still my impression that all 3 ship types currently are faster with "dummy-sails" in a head-wind. Especially the sloop. I hope that RARE will revisit this issue. The sloop should still be fastest against the wind however, followed by the Brigantine and the Galleon being the slowest. Just like real life Sailing Ships.

Happy Sailing!

@chlodovicus said in Please, for the love of sailing-ships, negate the use of "dummy-sails":

@robby0316
Hello,

When sailing against the wind at an angle of 0 to about 40 degrees, it is in fact faster to angle the sails against the wind. At least over shorter distances. This is completely counter-intuitive and illogical. That being said, I rarely ever use dummy-sails and I swear to using proper sailing techniques instead. Overall, I would say that tacking is indeed faster when travelling longer distances on the Sea. At the very least tacking lets you feel like you're moving somewhere. The fastest route with a Sailing Ship between two points is almost never a straight line.

When faced with a head wind, I usually tack about 45 degrees to either side depending on the environment. After a while the wind changes direction and I can tack back on course. This has proven to be faster and less tedious in my experience.

Happy Sailing!

Thank you!
I swear, people think I'm insane for not bee-lining from point to point at all times.

It bugs me too! I don't have any professional sailing experience but I've studied on it. It'd be nice if sailing was more realistic.

I would love for the sailing to be very realistic. Although I understand this is a game and it has to be noob firendly. At least they should change the fact that having sails directly against the wind is faster than having them to the side and trying to catch the wind at a slight angle.

@perfidious6751

Having tacking as a primary mechanic would be nice. However, @chlodovicus the dummy sails mechanic is currently the primary mechanic for the sloop to outrun other ships. If you make tacking faster, the brigand is then the fastest ship in the game, and sloops can't outrun nor outgun them on equal footing.

Do you have an alternative mechanic/suggestion for this issue?

I don't think anything major would need to change. They could slightly tweak the thrust vector so that when the sloop barely catches the wind(in the 0-10 degrees range) it moves quicker than when dummy sailing, even when compared to brigs/gallys.

I personally don't care too much about this issue but it would be neat if they made it a bit more intuitive.

Btw, just to be transparent, I play a lot with OP so I might be bit biased as we usually avoid dummy-sailing at all times(he's the captain after all)

@chlodovicus Someone has probably said this already, but the game programs "mid-sail" to give a speed boost so that tailwinds are faster.
"Believable, not realistic"
I guess this isn't really even believable without knowing the reason behind it...

@perfidious6751
Hello,

Thanks for your feedback. As I stated before, the sloop should absolutely still be the fastest ship against the wind. Having the sails angled completely to either side should result in minimum the same speed as the use of "dummy-sails" currently provides, when sailing directly against a head-wind. I think I've covered that aspect previously in this thread, but I'm happy to clarify any further questions.

Happy Sailing!

@grumpyw01f

Hello,

Thanks for your input. That mid/main sail gives a boost with a tailwind is absolutely believable and realistic. Tall Ships with square rigged sails were primarily designed and built for so-called trade-winds.

Happy Sailing!

@perfidious6751

Hello again,

You mention a foremast and I assume you're referring to the triangular sails attached to the bowsprit. Yes, those sails serve to direct the wind but they also provide a small amount of momentum. Square rigged Tall Ships are designed and built primarily for catching so-called trade winds and are absolutely fastest with a tail-wind. While it's true that the rear sails somewhat lessens the wind flowing to the mid and front sails, there are ways to spill the wind into the mid and front sails. Or just add more sails. Otherwise, tacking with the wind is also an option. Technically, it's the pressure-difference that produces the force that's channeled to become the ships momentum. Much like how an airplane-wing creates lift. Also, twisting the sails is another important aspect which however is too complicated to include in this game.

Happy Sailing!

@galactic-geek

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. I sympathise with your argument, and nothing I've suggested goes against it. I clearly stated that having the sail(s) angled completely to either side should be faster than using "dummy-sails" directly against a headwind. I can't see how this would make things more difficult for new players. On the contrary, what I'm suggesting is way more intuitive and I believe it would benefit new and veteran players. Please read my post and comments again and if you have more questions I'm happy to oblige.

Successfully outsailing a skilled chasing crew with the use of "dummy-sails" is no easy feat either. It's just... wrong...

Happy Sailing!