Please add a 6 man Frigate

Majority of players plays solo on a sloop so why put tht many effort in development, balancing and all that for a ship that is barely used as Galleons and Brigantines are also barely used.

@bugaboo-bill

because when I made the suggestion for a ship smaller than the sloop I got a lot of negative feedback. I would prefer to have a diverse roster of ships personally.

@weststormborn

I've added some pixel blueprints. it's all i could do on short notice.

@wydyadoit sagte in Please add a 6 man Frigate:

@bugaboo-bill

because when I made the suggestion for a ship smaller than the sloop I got a lot of negative feedback. I would prefer to have a diverse roster of ships personally.

the thin is soloing shouldnt be incentivized as this is a mp game.
the whole scaling to please soloers is wrong imho.
they go solo, everything regarding PvE now is easy as hell in a sloop because they nerfed and scaled everything down for them.

A bigger ship is hard to balance. The 3 ship types are somewhat balanced even for PvP. Its for sure a disadvantage to be in the smaller vessel or to be less pirates, but all ship types have some advanages and can be usefull in PvP.

If you have a ship with 6 or 8 persons, it will be hardly sinkable, just because of the manpower. It will also become very much harder to overwhelm them, like it is very hard to overwehlem a galleone crew solo or as a duo team. But killing 4 is possible.
Killing 8 is way more difficult.
A Man o' War will be a ship that cannot be sunk that easy by smaller crews, even if they have tons of cannonballs and such, because the sheer number of the pirates will be hard or even unable to beat.

And as someone said, to have more ships for just having more ships is not a good aproach because we are still talking of a PvEvP Environment.
That need not to be perfectly balanced reagarding ships and crews, but it should also not completely imbalanced.

And to have balanced disadvantages in a Man o' War this ship needs to be slow and need to have all crewmember have a position to be able to manage the ship.

Sloop has 2 positions to sail the ship, Wheel and Sail.
You can do that solo and you have 1 cannon on each side.
Made for 1-2 players.

Brigg has 3 positions, wheel and 2 sails and you have 2 cannons on each side and is made for 3 players, althogh you can sail it solo and as a duo, but you quickly have trouble when it comes to challenging situtions like PvP or Kraken.

Brigg has 4 positions for 4 players. Wheel and 3 sails with 3 cannons on each side. One for every player.
Play the Galleone with less than 3 and it is a big disadvantage.
Even with 3 players i found the Brig the way better option.

Now you want 6-8 Players. So dable with 6, but better for 8.
You would need 7 sails at minimum, because with the Wheel you want to have 8 positions.
you then wnt to have 8 cannons on each side.
Thats double of the Galleone.
Have you ever fired a broadside from a Galleone with 4 players to an arriving Ship?
Do you know wht happens if i have 8 players on a Man o War with 8 cannons and 8 players shooting at you?

The Ship need to be very slow maneuverable and still then the amount of pirates are just too much to be able to balance.

they can send 6 man boarding while one is on the wheel and another dropping sails or repairing.

I see no way o balance this in any way.

@bugaboo-bill

i disagree with your assumption that there must be a place for everyone. Even so you're not talking about the specifics of the ship i designed, but instead about a hypothetical ship that you've created. Let's focus on the ship I've created.

Let's talk about the challenge of this ship having 6 players.

first off the ship has 5 cannons (red squares) per side, but only 2 of those cannons can be aimed. That means 3 of those cannons are going to require the ship to rotate and maintain a certain distance in order for those cannons to be effective. instead they'll act as a defense mechanic against smaller ships trying to blitz the ship and will be angled at a downward arc. The upper deck cannons will consist of 2 cannons on each side that can be angled and rotated. The purpose of these cannons is to allow the ship to fire long range at ships attempting to take the ship down from range. However, the top deck cannons will need to be supplied with cannonballs that are on the 2nd deck and with the ship being longer there's more walking to do to get from point A to B.

There are 4 sets of sails with each having a point marked by purple or silver on the diagram for pulleys and length ropes. Notice that those intractables are located at strategic points on the ship so as to require travel time from the cannons and wheel.

The wheel is the yellow rectangle. This is assumed to be manned at most times.

The deeper yellow colored plus symbol is the anchor. It will require 8 players to make it raise as fast as the galleon with 4 being on top deck and 4 being on the second level. Due to the ship's immense size I figured it'd be best to not make the anchor completely broken should it happen to get hit on top deck. with only 4 people pushing the anchor it would take 2.5 x as long as pushing a galleon anchor with 4 people. I feel this would be balanced.

the pink squares on the 2nd level would be cannonballs. notice that they're on the second layer and away from the main cannons. This would require a player to make trips to the cannonballs in order to keep the top cannons firing.

On the 3rd level notice that there are 2 yellow squares. These squares are the only wooden plank barrels on the entire ship and there are 3 layers that need those planks unlike with other ships that only have 1 or 2. This means that you will need a dedicated repair personnel during combat which is guaranteed to eat up a ton of resources. Also unlike the sloop which has reduced flooding on the second level the frigate will sink like a rock should an entire level become flooded due to how many chances there are to make holes in the side of the ship. This is why there are some parts of the wall that are sectioned off with beams to minimize flooding potential. Also, there are a lot of locations below the water line as the ship will start with the lowest deck already submerged in water. meaning that if your cannonball falls short you might still hit level 4.

And bailing the 4th level would be a hard task indeed due to how many layers of the ship you'd have to climb to get up high enough to dump it over the edge.

The ship is meant to be a tank class ship. if the sloop is the scout and the galleon is the warrior then the frigate would be the juggernaut. It's meant to take a lot of hits, but it's slow and bulky.

Yes there are more people, but that doesn't mean the ship can't be balanced. Anything can be balanced given enough time and effort.

6 players too many? not really. 1 on wheel. 2 on top deck cannons. 1 bailing. 1 repairing. 1 supplying cannonballs.

8 players too many? not really. now you have someone else on cannons and a rigger for the front sail. I'd say it's fine.

@mysticdragon297

I appreciate the positive praise. with all the negativity I was about to consider taking another hiatus from the forums. It's not that I can't accept criticism, but a lot of the reasoning provided were either insults or just bad excuses.

I might stick around and try to come up with more content possibilities. Though, I think I'm done with ships. Maybe I'll create a new mode for arena...

@weststormborn

Yes. That's the downside. There aren't enough people for the ship to constantly be repairing and since the top gun are up so high should a ship get in (or a swimming pirate) the only true defense would be stationary cannons that fire at set intervals across the ships broad sides. That means of course if someone does get in close there are huge disadvantages for the giant. But with that being said you'd have to be sneaky or there'd be a lot of issues with the frigate's crew. 8 sets of eyes and 8 sets of swords/guns makes it so that getting in close would be no small feat. And the ship is relatively safe from long range since it can start firing at larger distances with the upper deck cannons providing longer range with limited fire power.

The ship isn't meant to be chasing. It's meant to be chased, surrounded, and carved away at 1 layer at a time.

I wouldn't make the rigging any more difficult than the galleon for the simple reason that the additional sail already makes it a bit more challenging when considering the distance to walk the ship. It's idealistically 2.5x larger in length and width. You'd never be able to get between small rock formations with it. Though this bad boy would wreck a megalodon, a brigantine, and a ghost ship.

I didn't mean to when initially designing it, but it reminds me of the story of david and goliath - which is kind of funny.