Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale

  • Lethality1
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    Now, I know this will be controversial, but... hear me out :)

    What if we collected REPUTATION when we obtain the item (chests, skulls, animals) and you collect GOLD when you we them in?

    Why would I suggest such a thing? For me, one of the biggest barriers to playing the game is time... so, it really stings when for whatever reason I lose a couple hours worth of loot. It makes me want to play less and less, not because I care about losing but because I simply cannot move forward in progression, despite spending the time to do so.

    This way, we could still make progress but lose out on the gold if we happen to be sunk.

    Anyway, I'll keep it short for now. Would be interested in hearing thoughts!

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  • bonko40
    Insider

    I can see it both ways. On one hand I feel like you should get something from completing a voyage, like after you find the last chest. On the other I do like the whole idea of nothings your until you turn it it. Maybe you get half the rep of chest you dig up and captains you kill and the other half when it’s sold? Of course this wouldn’t count for things like forts and such

  • William Flint
    Commander
    Insider

    Thematically....why would you gain reputation with the companies if you failed to bring them the items they want? Also how would this work for merchant alliance?

  • BlazeDrake100
    Marauder

    @lethality1
    I'd say no. I only can play for about 30min to an hour a day, yet I still progress with normal voyages by only doing one or two islands and selling. I do think Athena voyages(I'm not a Pl, this is based off of what I heard) need to be adjusted to not take so long. Tall tales also need a way to save in the middle because of time, but this suggestion doesn't help with either of those. It also makes pvp even less rewarding, and I think it's at a good spot right now.

  • SquaZ05
    Captain
    Founder

    I see your point. and I agree that we should get something for finishing the quest...
    however i don't agree it should be implemented at this moment in the game.

    your voyage is to bring back the treasure. why would you get a reputation for failing to bring back said treasure?

    maybe commendations, or another kind of unreleased currency (if applicable) but not doubloons, gold or rep.

  • Xultanis Dragon
    Sailor

    @Lethality1

    This is a hard no from me. This has been talked about before and the huge hole in the idea is this.

    What incentive do you have to turning in the item?? Gold? I can make gold other ways. Fort, Meg, Skeletons.

    I would be able to speed run athena's without having to turn in the chests. I could just speed run the rep and worry about the money later.

    Which would hurt the game because if players believed that someone is going to rob them, they'll just tap the chest and be done with it.

    The Rep and Gold at turn in is so that the players are forced to take their items to the outpost. So that they have to defend their loot if need be and so that there is a chance to get Rep from stealing from other players as well.

    So again its a hard no from me.

  • Lethality1
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    Thematically, the idea is that you were able to prove your worth by attaining what they asked you to, even though they won't pay you because you didn't deliver it. But you've proven you can you know the seas. :)

    I'm just trying to find a way around the elephant in the room that Sea of Thieves should have way more players. But as if the PvP isn't punishing enough to put some people away, the idea that you can literally not show a lick of progress after a night of gameplay is a real dealbreaker for many.

    I feel like some sort of compromise can be had to draw -- and hold -- more players.

  • Schwammlgott
    Legend

    @lethality1 when you lose a couple of hours worth of loot, it's your own fault...sell more frequently
    So I say, NO to that idea

  • Xultanis Dragon
    Sailor

    @lethality1

    In my experience trying to make everyone happy is not always the right move. I understand that sometimes you work on hours on something but in the end you lose it to a PvP or to a world event.

    I understand how a player feels when it happens. You get angry, you get dejected at the loss and the more hours put into the more angry and dejected you become.

    The issue here is that when trying to include "everyone" you are included there personality type. Their play style. By trying to accommodate this, you are essentially created a rift in the community. Those play styles and personality types will never work together with the PvP community or even the PvE community that understand that PvP is necessary for the games survival.

    The other thing that most players miss, I didn't catch it for almost a year, is that the players who complain about PvP or losing their items always tell of how they lost 4 hours or greater amounts of loot.

    In their story they describe how PvP is always around the corner, and how they have to constantly defend themselves and how they never have a peaceful moment. Then they go and say "We lost 4hours/8hours of loot to some PvP toxic player."

    4hours or more of uninterrupted game time. They had 4 hours of peace before being attacked ONCE.

    4hours is a LONG time. That had that much time in game being completely left alone and then they get on the forums and described it like they were spawn camped at birth.

    Through out the story they also fail to mention stopping by an outpost. Again 4 hours but they didn't drive by an outpost once?

    Honestly, I understand the feeling. I PvP all the time and usually my boat is stocked with other peoples loot. I have also lost and the amount I lose is significantly higher than whatever I have ever stolen.

    I believe trying to coddle players who exaggerate what happens to them is not a good thing.

    I'm not about the all inclusive type of game. It never works. Like minded players will always be better for the community than 2 different sides at each other throats.

  • BlazeDrake100
    Marauder

    @lethality1
    They wouldn't trust you more for finding it but failing still...

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @Lethality1

    No, and here is why:
    Progression is meaningless, it's about to play the gsme not to progress. It's only horizontal and only cosmetics, you miss nothing.

    The whole progression thing is more damaging the game than everything else.
    People dont play, the are only here to progress and game the system or try to game the system.

    Start playing (where loosing sometimes doesnt matter as you say) and stop progressing and gaming the system.

    They should have removed any form.of progression, its hilarious, but progression is what segregate players and distracts from playing games, but work things off.
    No matter if you like it or not, you work the chore of a grind off to say you put effort in and deserve to be properly rewarded and to tell others you have done it.
    That's the purpose and cause 90% of the gamers game systems and participate in games.

    Instead to play for the no1 purpose of playing games = Fun!
    And because all the progression isnt mandatory and nothing gamechanging, but only about cosmetics, it is completely irrelevant if you progress and "get nothing" from 2 hours of gameplay.
    If this 2 hours are only fun if you hand in loot (win) then something is wrong with your aproach playing a game.
    It should be fun even if you loose.

    I yesterday played with my daughter and family.
    I lost, i had fun, i would play again.
    Nothing to gain, no rewards, no progress i made.

  • ItsKingBertie
    Marauder

    @bugaboo-bill said in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    @Lethality1

    No, and here is why:
    Progression is meaningless, it's about to play the gsme not to progress. It's only horizontal and only cosmetics, you miss nothing.

    The whole progression thing is more damaging the game than everything else.
    People dont play, the are only here to progress and game the system or try to game the system.

    Start playing (where loosing sometimes doesnt matter as you say) and stop progressing and gaming the system.

    They should have removed any form.of progression, its hilarious, but progression is what segregate players and distracts from playing games, but work things off.
    No matter if you like it or not, you work the chore of a grind off to say you put effort in and deserve to be properly rewarded and to tell others you have done it.
    That's the purpose and cause 90% of the gamers game systems and participate in games.

    Instead to play for the no1 purpose of playing games = Fun!
    And because all the progression isnt mandatory and nothing gamechanging, but only about cosmetics, it is completely irrelevant if you progress and "get nothing" from 2 hours of gameplay.
    If this 2 hours are only fun if you hand in loot (win) then something is wrong with your aproach playing a game.
    It should be fun even if you loose.

    I yesterday played with my daughter and family.
    I lost, i had fun, i would play again.
    Nothing to gain, no rewards, no progress i made.

    Ahhh the “you supposed to have fun like me, and cus you don’t your the problem m” post :) :) :)

  • Hynieth
    Master
    Insider

    @lethality1 We're already gaining some rep while doing quests, like the amount of miles sailed etc.
    Adding a rep gain for aquiring treasure would not make sense. Who is going to say you're reputable, that merchant is still waiting for those chickens and that gold hoarder still hasn't gotten his chest. He won't respect you just for finding the loot (that's what Rep is right?)
    That's why the Arena works so well as it does. You're doing things and earning your rep/ currency while doing it because everyone is watching.

    Now if we had an Arena mode where people went around digging chests without cannons/guns/swords as a sort of speedrun contest (I mean why not right, this could be the PvE mode people are asking for) I can see that happen, the spectators would love to see you ding that chest without unearthing the whole island.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @itskingbertie sagte in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    @bugaboo-bill said in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    @Lethality1

    No, and here is why:
    Progression is meaningless, it's about to play the gsme not to progress. It's only horizontal and only cosmetics, you miss nothing.

    The whole progression thing is more damaging the game than everything else.
    People dont play, the are only here to progress and game the system or try to game the system.

    Start playing (where loosing sometimes doesnt matter as you say) and stop progressing and gaming the system.

    They should have removed any form.of progression, its hilarious, but progression is what segregate players and distracts from playing games, but work things off.
    No matter if you like it or not, you work the chore of a grind off to say you put effort in and deserve to be properly rewarded and to tell others you have done it.
    That's the purpose and cause 90% of the gamers game systems and participate in games.

    Instead to play for the no1 purpose of playing games = Fun!
    And because all the progression isnt mandatory and nothing gamechanging, but only about cosmetics, it is completely irrelevant if you progress and "get nothing" from 2 hours of gameplay.
    If this 2 hours are only fun if you hand in loot (win) then something is wrong with your aproach playing a game.
    It should be fun even if you loose.

    I yesterday played with my daughter and family.
    I lost, i had fun, i would play again.
    Nothing to gain, no rewards, no progress i made.

    Ahhh the “you supposed to have fun like me, and cus you don’t your the problem m” post :) :) :)

    Well, it's how the game is build by Rare.
    If someone needs more incentives to play or expects a game for achievers when it's crystal clear that this game has no vertical progression with more of a meaning to progression than cosmetics, then there is nobody to blame, or?

    I don't go to heavy progression games with vertical progression and ask them to remove it.
    I just don't play such games if i dont like this aspect.
    And so i play SoT instead, because progression here is optional and not mandatory, horizontal and about cosmetics only.
    So there is no need to progress or to ask to make it easier or whatever, because you can play like everybody else and wont miss anything if you progress is slower ir slowed down because you lost loot in a session.

    If people dont get that who is to blame then?

    If you play to achieve something this game is not made to climb the ladder in the first place.
    If it was, progression would have more meaning and maybe content were gated behind progression.
    Bit it's not. So why care for progression?
    Or if it is fast or slow?
    Why game the system and work it off when nothing changes?
    Just let it happen by the way and have fun playing.

  • ViperishEmu2992
    Marauder

    It's an interesting idea. And I understand the logic behind the "Experience" (XP's) being the adventure and the "Reward" (Gold) being the sale. But my personal feelings is that it would not be good for the game.

    I'm not entirely certain but I think that the end result would be more people just leaving their treasure behind. At a certain point (when you have a lot) Gold becomes sort of meaningless. I remember 6 months ago speed running ATHENA Missions just to get to the XP's to hit Athena10.

    My point is that when Ships carry less treasure the game becomes less exciting for everyone. Except maybe for Beach Combers :)

  • GreenCamillion1
    Captain
    Insider

    Im one of the nay Sayers.
    most of the things has already been said.

    I could see you getting like 10% rep from digging up the chest/finish voyage, an then the rest when you turn in.
    I mean the chest are dug up, an you have completed that part.
    Yes you failed to turn them in, but the ones who stole your chest gonna turn them in.
    My point is that I know the OoS, GH an mec. dont care who turns in, just as they get there stuff.

    But from one who has played from the beginning of this game, gold an rep is so easy to come by now, compared to the launch.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @lethality1

    I don't mean this in a rude way, but this kind of just sounds like wanting a consolation reward. I personally don't understand that sort of thing.

    I don't think you should just be rewarded with reputation because you tried. You have to turn it in and win it.

    Your time isn't wasted just because you didn't get to turn in your loot, because you had fun while gathering it right?

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @itskingbertie said in [Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Acquire; Gold on Sale]

    Ahhh the “you supposed to have fun like me, and cus you don’t your the problem m” post :) :) :)

    It's not that you're the problem, but it is YOUR problem.

    I like that we already get voyage completions before turning in the chests towards commendations. Doesn't that afford you a bit of experience? I don't recall.

  • ItsKingBertie
    Marauder

    @galactic-geek said in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    @itskingbertie said in [Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Acquire; Gold on Sale]

    Ahhh the “you supposed to have fun like me, and cus you don’t your the problem m” post :) :) :)

    It's not that you're the problem, but it is YOUR problem.

    I like that, well said and fair point.

  • Lethality1
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    Most everyone replying in here isn't seeing the point I'm trying to make.

    The way it is now is a turnoff that sends players away. It's not the PvP, it's the loss of the only progression you've made, because of it. That in an abstract way is as hardcore as it gets.

    And Sea of Thieves... well, it's not positioned as a hardcore game. That's why there are far, FAR fewer players than it should have. I don't think Rare's experiement with this kind of shared world with free-for-all PvP AND progression tied only to hand-in of goods.

    I am a die-hard SoT fan, I have every cosmetic I can get my hands on, even the promo ones om the various hardware. I'm a Founder.

    But I'm almost ready to leave the game because its not fun to not progress. And this suggestion is a very simple way to give a compromise that makes sense.

  • Lethality1
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @chronodusk said in [Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale]

    Your time isn't wasted just because you didn't get to turn in your loot, because you had fun while gathering it right?

    Unfortunately, that's not a valid analogy when there are measured incentives for completion. So as long as there are, and they are the only way to progress, this is a real issue and is capping the growth of Sea of Thieves once players find out how it works.

  • Lethality1
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @squaz05 said in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    I see your point. and I agree that we should get something for finishing the quest...
    however i don't agree it should be implemented at this moment in the game.

    your voyage is to bring back the treasure. why would you get a reputation for failing to bring back said treasure?

    maybe commendations, or another kind of unreleased currency (if applicable) but not doubloons, gold or rep.

    Your voyage is to dig up the treasure. It's complete when you dig it all up. Selling it is just the profits :)

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @lethality1 said in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    @chronodusk said in [Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale]

    Your time isn't wasted just because you didn't get to turn in your loot, because you had fun while gathering it right?

    Unfortunately, that's not a valid analogy when there are measured incentives for completion. So as long as there are, and they are the only way to progress, this is a real issue and is capping the growth of Sea of Thieves once players find out how it works.

    What analogy? I didn't use an analogy anywhere in that statement.

    Also, I'll let you in on a little secret: The day will come when Sea of Thieves dies and the servers are no longer supported by Rare. Maybe that's a long ways off, but nothing you earned in the game will exist after that point.

    The pixels and polygons that make up your Gold Hoarder curse, your purple Pirate Legend outfit and all that will dissipate into nothing. It's morbid to think of I know, but it is true.

    You can definitely be goal and incentive oriented, but I would argue with great substantiation that the experiences and fun you have while earning or attempting to earn rewards are far more valuable than the rewards themselves.

    Just saying, It is quite fun to go and earn rewards and all, but measuring the fun of your whole experience by in game rewards earned is kind of a waste if you ask me.

  • Lethality1
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @chronodusk said in [Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale]

    Just saying, It is quite fun to go and earn rewards and all, but measuring the fun of your whole experience by in game rewards earned is kind of a waste if you ask me.

    Sure, but... that's on the design of the game, not the player. It is incentivized to play, and the expectation is reward for doing so.

    They'd have a long walk back to take that away though, wouldn't you agree? People already complain about lack of progression... if you were to release such a game with also no rewards for playing and accomplishing things, then, well... you would have no players.

    It's not valid in today's climate to simply say "as long as you had fun" when the game is built specifically with extrinsic rewards to that fun.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @lethality1 said in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    @chronodusk said in [Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale]

    Just saying, It is quite fun to go and earn rewards and all, but measuring the fun of your whole experience by in game rewards earned is kind of a waste if you ask me.

    Sure, but... that's on the design of the game, not the player. It is incentivized to play, and the expectation is reward for doing so.

    I think it's kind of on the player if they expect a reward just for putting their time into the game. It is also on the player if they choose to measure the quality of their entire experience by rewards earned.

    I played a session once where my crew completed 2 forts, we played the risk game and kept all of the loot on board and did not turn it in. This was before we were legends so you could say we had a lot to lose. We interfered with an alliance, made them angry, had an entire 3 ship alliance chasing us, only for us to be stopped in our tracks by the Kraken.

    We lost all of that loot, but had tons of fun in the process. It was fun to see how that player to player interaction unfolded, and even further to see how the game's emergent event played a part in serving swift justice. I don't consider that time wasted by any means even though I earned no gold or rep, because I had fun.

    They'd have a long walk back to take that away though, wouldn't you agree? People already complain about lack of progression... if you were to release such a game with also no rewards for playing and accomplishing things, then, well... you would have no players.

    I'm not saying there should be no progression because it does make things more interesting, (hell, I'm saying this as an Athena 10 Pirate Legend) but at the same time you're also playing a game where your progression has zero effect on how you fare against everyone else. That in itself teaches a valuable lesson to today's gamers I think.

    It teaches you to relish the experience. Not only that, making the progression exclusively cosmetic balances out the fact that you literally can lose three hours worth of chests and skulls in a matter of moments.

    Also In my experience, the people complaining about "lack of progression" are the same people asking for power progression with stat increases and effects, etc... and those people just don't understand the game anyway, so not really that valid of a complaint in my opinion.

    It's not valid in today's climate to simply say "as long as you had fun" when the game is built specifically with extrinsic rewards to that fun.

    It is perfectly valid to say "at least you had fun" because why else are you playing video games? Losing can still be fun. There's a culture in video gaming right now wherein people demand they be compensated with in game rewards no matter what. Why should the game let you win even when you lose? Isn't that kinda the point of losing? "Sorry! You lost, better luck next time!" right? Whatever happened to that?

  • Lil Fokker
    Master
    Insider

    I partly agree.

    I have suggested a similar perspective in the past and I didn't read through any of the responses to this post as I'm sure they're not much more than 'git gud' at best.

    My distinction would be to have different kinds of rep rewards....

    1. Found treasure
    2. Turned in found treasure
    3. Stole treasure
    4. Turned in stolen treasure

    There could be more and the rep rewards could be different for each increasing for those that are the more difficult to accomplish.

    Other than that, I find the idea has merit and feel that the grind is no fun when the tally for your efforts equals zero.

  • Car0uselambra
    Commander
    Insider

    I don't agree with the solution. But I will agree that everything takes entirely too much time. I have a new born and basically gave up on the game. The tall tales are so much time commitment.
    I think travel time is the biggest contribution. But have zero ideas on how to fix that

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @lethality1 said in Make Reputation Gain on Acquire; Gold on Sale:

    Now, I know this will be controversial, but... hear me out :)

    What if we collected REPUTATION when we obtain the item (chests, skulls, animals) and you collect GOLD when you we them in?

    Why would I suggest such a thing? For me, one of the biggest barriers to playing the game is time... so, it really stings when for whatever reason I lose a couple hours worth of loot. It makes me want to play less and less, not because I care about losing but because I simply cannot move forward in progression, despite spending the time to do so.

    This way, we could still make progress but lose out on the gold if we happen to be sunk.

    Anyway, I'll keep it short for now. Would be interested in hearing thoughts!

    I think your suggestion is a bit too strong.

    However, i could easily agree to a system like, you get 25% of the reputation digging up the chests/finding the animals/picking up the supplies/killing the skeletons, and then you get the rest of the reputation when you deliver them in.

    A compromise, that way, it's not that easily abused, but you also don't completely waste your time when you get robbed.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @chronodusk

    "Also In my experience, the people complaining about "lack of progression" are the same people asking for power progression with stat increases and effects, etc... and those people just don't understand the game anyway, so not really that valid of a complaint in my opinion."

    I actually have a friend IRL who is like that, said he wont touch this game again until they add mechanical progression.

    I also think he's being a bit narrow-minded because of that, but i also have an idea that could serve as a compromise.

    In short, basically allow cursed weaponry that gives you bonuses against PVE, but has not effect PVP, like for example a Flaming Cutlass, that lets you kill all plant skellies in a single sword combo (3 hits), but against players, still does the same damage as a regular cutlass, or a Glowing cutlass that lets you hit black skeletons without the need for lanterns, etc, but again, has no bonus effect on other players.

    Kind of an unexplored concept i've had in the back of my mind for a while, but haven't really thought through properly.

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