The gold sink

  • davidbarlow
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    So we all know this game needs one. But how, and what?

    To answer these questions we must first ask ourselves the question "what do we need to spend the gold on?". This game has only horizontal progression (visual, not gameplay altering) and no vertical progession (advantage vs others). This means stronger weapons/ship parts are out of the question. We already have cosmetics for every piece of equipment and although the developers can add more equipment and variations, this is finite.

    So no permanent vertical progression & advantage. More cosmetics arent the longterm solution either. But why do we need a gold sink anyway? Because otherwise playing this game, whether it's doing quests or stealing from others, is slightly less exciting. Gold has no value at the moment. If you already have everything the game has to offer, it doesnt matter if you lose your chests.

    The simple answer here is that gold needs value. And when spending gold, we expect some value in return.

    So a slightly more complicating answer is that we need value other than permanent progression/advantages/cosmetics. We need something that sustains our longterm need for gold. Adding things that cost 500k gold isnt the answer either. The literal word we're looking for is "sink". Something consistent.

    Consistent need for value by gold. This equals investment! (or gambling) So if you've come to this point and agree with everything, we can think about what sort of investments? We simply need investments for a return in value.

    My thoughts were:

    • Purchasable resources
    • Potions (were originally intended for the game)
    • Fully restore a ship (no more ugly patched holes)
    • Ship fortification
    • Gambling
    • Chests with chance to contain unique unpurchasable cosmetics

    Extra clarification per point below:

    ...Purchasable resources..................................................................................................
    What some people might say is this would result in a unleveled playingfield. This is simply not true. Right now the game is already designed to spawn you far enough from other ships. You already have enough time to gather all the resources on an outpost. Making them purchasable makes no difference in this aspect.

    The next point people will make is that people can stock up on 500+ planks and balls within minutes. If you're a experienced sot player you will know that the entire game's pvp revolves around pressure. You've only won if their ship sinks. So my point is that no matter if a crew has 50, 200 or 500 planks, if you apply enough pressure to a crew their ship will sink!

    And here comes to nice part! If each plank costs 10 gold (just an example), a crew with 500 planks is risking 5k. Right now 5k doesnt seem like much right now. But once there is a gold sink, 5k isnt something you want to lose on a regular basis. It's risk versus reward. The reward is a somewhat more sustainable journey, unless you get sunk very fast. The risk is losing 5k on a regular basis.

    So ask yourself this; does it really add a unleveled playing field? The only difference is that it's gonna save you the 5 minutes of gathering resources, which you can still do if you dont want to spend gold.

    ...Potions.............................................................................................................................
    So I agree this one might be on the edge of a unleveled playing field. But if everyone has access to +5% movement speed for a small investment, then everyone has the same choice of risk vs reward. This is losing the cost of a potion for a somewhat more sustainable journey.

    Maybe they could add JUST utility potions like underwater breathing or something. This wouldnt affect pvp as much.

    ...Fully restore a ship.........................................................................................................
    Everyone wants this. It's just for the crews that survive for a long time and prefer a fancy undamaged ship.

    ...Ship fortification.............................................................................................................
    Fortifying your ship would make your ship slightly more resistant to waves in the storm and slightly scraping rocks or shallow waters. Let's say the threshold for a hole to appear these ways increases by 30%. This would not prevent the impact of a cannonball to penetrate your ship's hull. Neither would this prevent your ship getting holes because of directly sailing into rocks or shallow water. It would, once again, result in a slightly more sustainable journey. It could cost gold + planks. The cost could even be slightly higher then what it would to repair the damage with planks. This way it could be an option for people that wouldnt mind to pay a bit more to prevent small sailing mistakes near islands.

    ...Gambling..........................................................................................................................
    Speaks for itself. Blackjack vs a npc. Other parlor games vs other players. And no, this would not increase the ESRB rating or PEGI rating of sea of thieves. The game already includes stealing, killing and use of alcohol.

    ESRB Ratings Guides, Categories, Content Descriptors

    ESRB Ratings Guides, Categories, Content Descriptors

    Use the ESRB video game ratings guide to understand how the rating system works and how to use it to select appropriate video games and apps for your family

    Adding simulated gambling (without real money) will not raise these ratings.

    ...Chests with a chance to contain unique cosmetics....................................................
    Kinda like lootboxes, but with in game gold. They could contain stuff like:

    • Burnt chicken (bad but uncommon)
    • The boots you can fish (bad but uncommon)
    • Planks, cannonballs, banana's (alright, common)
    • Less gold than invested (alright, common)
    • Other fruits except pineapple and meats (good, uncommon)
    • Pineapple and cursed cannonballs (very good, rare)
    • More gold than invested (very good, rare)
    • Mermaid gems (very good, ultra rare)
    • Exclusive cosmetics that are ONLY obtainable with these chests (very very good, ultra rare)

    The thought behind these lootboxes is that you get about 70% of the value of the stuff you could've straight up bought at the shops. But there is always the dream that you get one piece of the special clothing set or very rare sails. This could be like a gilded clothing set or gilded sails. The boxes could be sold by a mysterious smuggler (with goods from around the world). And maybe there could be a maximum amount of boxes bought each sea of thieves day. The chests could contain a combination of two items mentioned above.

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  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    This was originally going to be a death tax but outcry scared Rare into backing up on that. I'd be all for it. If you get killed its very easy to not have it happen again immediately. Also it would mean that the pvp only players would actually be risking something when they attack people doing pve.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    While it isn't permanent vertical progression, its still vertical progression. While I whole heartily agree that their needs to be more things for gold, upgrades aren't the route to go. The problems that arise is new players will not have the funds to compete with long established crews. Their already exist an experience gap, however, now their would also exist an actual equipment and tool gap.

    Buying supplies puts returning ships at an advantage. Take a fort for example, your fighting this ship and you sink them. They spawn nearby and you barely sunk them the first time. Your drained on supplies, and you can only pull what little is on the fort. They now have bought supplies and a fully stocked ship, who wins in this situation?

  • davidbarlow
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @nabberwar said in The gold sink:

    The problems that arise is new players will not have the funds to compete with long established crews. Their already exist an experience gap, however, now their would also exist an actual equipment and tool gap.

    Matchmaking exists for a reason. It should too on the sea of thieves. It doesnt have to be players within 5 total reputation of eachother, but it could be within 15. This was you dont get empty servers.

    Buying supplies puts returning ships at an advantage. Take a fort for example, your fighting this ship and you sink them. They spawn nearby and you barely sunk them the first time. Your drained on supplies, and you can only pull what little is on the fort. They now have bought supplies and a fully stocked ship, who wins in this situation?

    As I've stated in my post, if you take this long to sink a ship, you're not experienced. Even if a ship has tons of supplies, you can sink them within 3 minutes if played correctly. The game still is about skill. And who says you couldnt have bought supplies? It literally doesnt matter, you either gather a little or buy a little. If you buy a lot you risk losing it all. You have time enough to gather + return to the fort.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @davidbarlow

    • Purchasable resources:
      As you mention battle revolves around pressure, which can be obtained by immense or consistent pressure. If a crew has consistent hundreds of supplies the consistent pressure will result in extended battles lasting for ever and with no real end in sight if both parties opt for the purchases. Additionally new players would be less likely to have this option and would therefore be more likely to be at a disadvantage.

    If you claim it isn't an issue cause well you can find them or spend time collecting the resources it also applies to sinking and returning with tons of them. Clearly providing rich crews benefits in claiming victory by mere paying their way to always be comfortable.

    The threat of PVE will also diminish as supplies well be abundant without effort. The ability to fight multiple threats in a row usually is based on the supply amounts you hold and their threat increases if you just had to spend supplies. This will not be the case if you always have hundreds of them from the get go.

    Many people will feel obligated instead of choice to spend their money on it and the game element of gathering supplies would be lost. Which personally I think is a negative impact on the games quality.

    Additionally who in the crew is going to purchase it? How will it be decided and how will it function in open crews?

    • Potions (were originally intended for the game)
      If these don't impact combat, appearance changes, funny effects etc. That last for the session or time based would be amazing, maybe even with one that is incredibly expensive to provide the ability to enter the random pirate generation for a permanent change of the pirates visuals as requested by many.

    • Fully restore a ship (no more ugly patched holes)
      If just a visual fix sounds perfect to me. As long as all holes are patched before purchased.

    • Ship fortification
      Sounds to much as a requirement than a fun choice that would provide rich pirates with advantages.

    • Gambling
      Not just rating for Teens is affected by this, but many countries have strict laws regarding gambling mechanics and providing them to non adults or at all. Therefore I doubt this will happen due to the legal challenges it faces.

    • Chests with chance to contain unique unpurchasable cosmetics
      Loot boxes is a hot topic at the moment and sounds like a bad idea especially with multiple countries looking to classifying this as online gambling. Really not worth the risk.

    Combat affecting aspects like cannonballs, planks, food, flat out improvements to ships etc. are a negative for me and take away from the everyone starts a session on the same footing.

    That said a Bait shop is something that people suggest which I think is a good idea as a similar sink as voyages for the hunters call that would function as a pretty nice addition as a gold sink.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @davidbarlow said in The gold sink:

    @nabberwar said in The gold sink:

    The problems that arise is new players will not have the funds to compete with long established crews. Their already exist an experience gap, however, now their would also exist an actual equipment and tool gap.

    Matchmaking exists for a reason. It should too on the sea of thieves. It doesnt have to be players within 5 total reputation of eachother, but it could be within 15. This was you dont get empty servers.

    Open crews don't function like this and servers don't at all. The shared world environment is to mix all types of players new, old, pve, pvp ... in short everyone and I doubt that Rare will move away from this any time soon. Though I personally hope they fix some of the issues in the open crew system at some point.

    Buying supplies puts returning ships at an advantage. Take a fort for example, your fighting this ship and you sink them. They spawn nearby and you barely sunk them the first time. Your drained on supplies, and you can only pull what little is on the fort. They now have bought supplies and a fully stocked ship, who wins in this situation?

    As I've stated in my post, if you take this long to sink a ship, you're not experienced. Even if a ship has tons of supplies, you can sink them within 3 minutes if played correctly. The game still is about skill. And who says you couldnt have bought supplies? It literally doesnt matter, you either gather a little or buy a little. If you buy a lot you risk losing it all. You have time enough to gather + return to the fort.

    Have you ever solo fought with larger crews, brigantine or galleons? The 3 min approach is pretty much suicidal and the smart move is to be conservative enough to have them waste more supplies than you and dwindle them down / annoy them to the point that they start being careless.

    I have had battles that took 45 mins of me prodding and poking till they got fed up and to then over committed and provided me with the opportunity to have 2 of them being in the sea while I was able to circle perfectly around them, board and take over their ship and sink them while my ship was circling the open seas. They were so salty with all the verbal commenting on how I was a little b... and not a man to meet them head on etc. And I have more of those type of stories as I roll up to all type of crews as a solo and need to fend myself from some that aren't willing to play nice.

    Now you might not enjoy this approach or think it is a waste of time. I ended up with an almost completed fort, managed to get most of the loot on board before they reappeared and an amazing feeling of achievement. Is it effective not at all, but ooh is it fun and keeps an old legend as myself entertained.

    With these tactics you do notice when they start they are blasting away, but the longer it lasts the more conservative they become with cannonballs. If they have hundreds... it would most likely take me hours to get to a point where I can be that near their ship and not take damage to risk leaving mine. Don't get me wrong, I also have enough stories where I get owned and just spent an hour playing with a larger crew with nothing to show for it.

  • davidbarlow
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    @cotu42 Totally forgot about a bait shop! That would be amazing.

    In regard to the rest of your post:

    Purchasable resources.
    This was a problem that existed before. But not anymore. The balancing team of Rare has seen that these extended battles (that already existed) were a huge problem for the fun of the game. This is why they've added extended ship damage. It's less about consistent pressure and more about immense pressure and skill. Fights dont last as long as they used to. There is no denying that. So yes people could purchase resources for a slight advantage, but do the calculations. A fort is gonna contain about 20k, do you want to risk another 5k for a net 15k profit? What if you lose again? net 10k profit? If you dont "win the fort" you lost 10k.

    Making the resources purchasable is just the good thing to do. It should be in this game. It's weird not to have it and to have to scavenge barrels right next to the stores...

    New players could be put in a temporary server till 30 total rep, putting them against eachother. This could include tutorial lessons.

    Ship fortification wont be useful vs cannonballs so it wouldnt give an advantage as much as you think.

    Gambling will make its way to the game sooner or later. Rare has hinted at this with numberous cosmetics and tattoos. It's simulated gambling which follows a different set of guidelines and countries arent as strict with this. This is why ESRB and PEGI make the distinction between simulated gambling and real gambling.

    Same for the "loot boxes". As long as there isnt any real money involved, it's not a problem. The hot topic you mentioned is about the addiction in combination with putting real money into it. Not just "chance mechanics" in game.

    You and many others are still fixated on the ideas of limiting resources to barrels. It is meant for the game, it's obvious because of the amounts of gold everyone has. There are ways to make ideas work. The suggestions I've just made are thought of in 5 minutes. Imagine what a dev team could think of in weeks.

    The argument "everyone starts at the same footing" is really a non-argument. If Rare really would want this they would've added a matchmaking per server per "skill level" for adventure AND arena. Right now I read about newer crews getting slaughtered over and over by experienced crews without any reason whatsoever. They have no loot.

  • davidbarlow
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @cotu42 You were just complaining about older and experienced crews having an advantage vs newer crews? Right now there already exists the experience advantage and newer crews without loot are getting killed without a reason.

    They could limit a hidden matchmaking to the early skill levels. The open crew function stays the same.

    If you cant sink a gal/brig within 10 minutes you're just not good enough. Especially with the new ship damage. Have fun with yours 300+ resources.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @davidbarlow sagte in The gold sink:

    So we all know this game needs one. But how, and what?

    Not sure if we need one, why do we exactly?
    People who play a lot have all and everything and maybe Millions of gold, but is this true for a new player or a casual player.
    Stick to the average i say.
    When people came and said 3 month after release they are PL A10 and got all and everything and the game is boring now. Nobody is guilty they played the game 10+ hrs a day, up to 500-1000 hrs already and then say it's a boring game and they have nothing to do.
    People should become more serious and reflektive maybe :-)

    To answer these questions we must first ask ourselves the question "what do we need to spend the gold on?".

    There is maybe a simple answer to that: nothing?!

    So no permanent vertical progression & advantage. More cosmetics arent the longterm solution either.

    True, but why aren't new cosmetics the answer?
    Average prices, they were reduced btw. and i believe Rare had metrics when they lowered prices for hulls last year.

    But why do we need a gold sink anyway? Because otherwise playing this game, whether it's doing quests or stealing from others, is slightly less exciting. Gold has no value at the moment. If you already have everything the game has to offer, it doesnt matter if you lose your chests.

    That's you, i care for every chest to turn in, no matter what its worth.
    And my gold is also above a Million and i have all cosmetics i want and can buy.

    The simple answer here is that gold needs value. And when spending gold, we expect some value in return.

    Gold has value, you can buy cosmetics with it.
    The thing is you and me and many others already played that much, that to us it has become less valuable. But i guess we arent the average or a valid measure then.

    We need something that sustains our longterm need for gold.

    I honestly dont need it.

    My thoughts were:

    • Purchasable resources

    Creates an imbalance torwards players with zero or less gold.
    Gives attackers returning to a fort where they got already defeated an unfair advantage.

    • Potions (were originally intended for the game)

    Ok, but i guess you will only be able to buy one and have inly one active and the prices will something around 100 gold or so to not make it a balancing Problem to a player who joined today or last week.

    • Fully restore a ship (no more ugly patched holes)

    Possible solution, but i doubt someone will spend 50k gold to it.
    I personally like the ship looks used a bit :-)

    • Ship fortification

    Imbalance

    • Gambling

    Yeah why not!

    • Chests with chance to contain unique unpurchasable cosmetics

    Umlikey, but yeah possible solution. Why do i have this feeling lootboxes wont make many players that happy?! XD

    What some people might say is this would result in a unleveled playingfield. This is simply not true. Right now the game is already designed to spawn you far enough from other ships. You already have enough time to gather all the resources on an outpost. Making them purchasable makes no difference in this aspect.

    It does, see my Revenge at Fort example.

    The next point people will make is that people can stock up on 500+ planks and balls within minutes. If you're a experienced sot player you will know that the entire game's pvp revolves around pressure. You've only won if their ship sinks. So my point is that no matter if a crew has 50, 200 or 500 planks, if you apply enough pressure to a crew their ship will sink!

    I agree on pressure, but a battle of attrition is also a valid tactic.
    Especially against a crew what is better in fighting other Pirates, but not better in fighting ships.
    I for example are much better fighting ships, do long range hits with cannonfire, mostly good maneuvering, good positioning... Etc.
    I can use this also to make pressure, especially since we have the new damage model.

    Met players who were awesome Shooters and quickscoping bunnyhoppers, good with the cutlass.
    The moment the battle took place on the sea with ships, they got sunk in no time. And all their Shooter skills were worth nothing, because they were bad at maneuvering and keepong their ship afloat.

    And here comes to nice part! If each plank costs 10 gold (just an example), a crew with 500 planks is risking 5k. Right now 5k doesnt seem like much right now. But once there is a gold sink, 5k isnt something you want to lose on a regular basis. It's risk versus reward. The reward is a somewhat more sustainable journey, unless you get sunk very fast. The risk is losing 5k on a regular basis.

    But there are people sitting on 30 Million and others sit on 25k.
    Sorry, no!
    It favors hardcore gaming and gives an advantage to players who play more hours a day.
    I dont think this should be the case, because people playing very much are already more practiced and skilled and all that.
    Now you give them additionally a way to use their tons of gold to have another advantage while they dont care to spend 500k on supplies.
    They farm this in 2 days and the "normal" players will not and rant for every 5k he loose, when they tries to get the 1.5 Million to buy the Athena ship cosmetics or whatever.

    So ask yourself this; does it really add a unleveled playing field? The only difference is that it's gonna save you the 5 minutes of gathering resources, which you can still do if you dont want to spend gold.

    Again, Fort Battles!

    ...Potions.............................................................................................................................
    So I agree this one might be on the edge of a unleveled playing field. But if everyone has access to +5% movement speed for a small investment, then everyone has the same choice of risk vs reward. This is losing the cost of a potion for a somewhat more sustainable journey.

    I think they wont be expensive enough to make them a gold sink.
    Everybody, if they will be purchasble - i doubt that, i think we will need to collect ingredients and then brew them like we cook fish today - they will only cost a few bucks to make them available to everybody.

    Maybe they could add JUST utility potions like underwater breathing or something. This wouldnt affect pvp as much.

    Underwater breathing will affect PvP very, very, very much!!!

    ...Ship fortification.............................................................................................................
    Fortifying your ship would make your ship slightly more resistant to waves in the storm and slightly scraping rocks or shallow waters. Let's say the threshold for a hole to appear these ways increases by 30%. This would not prevent the impact of a cannonball to penetrate your ship's hull. Neither would this prevent your ship getting holes because of directly sailing into rocks or shallow water. It would, once again, result in a slightly more sustainable journey. It could cost gold + planks. The cost could even be slightly higher then what it would to repair the damage with planks. This way it could be an option for people that wouldnt mind to pay a bit more to prevent small sailing mistakes near islands.

    Still a gold based advantage also for PvP.
    Sail into a storm to have the advantage, dont care that much for rocks while maneuvering...etc...etc...
    No!
    If you tell us you know about PvP and how to sink someone in seconds, please think it througb more.
    These claims sound as if you dont have a clue tbh.

    • Mermaid gems (very good, ultra rare)

    No way Mermaid gems for lootboxes!!!!

    Everything tied to cosmetics only is ok, also the optical hull repair.
    But both wont be real gold sinks and bareley used i guess.

    I dont think wie need a gold sink anyway.

  • KevinInNYC
    Marauder
    Insider

    "If you get killed its very easy to not have it happen again immediately."

    Never heard of spawn killers?

  • NatiRedGals
    Rogue
    Insider
    Founder

    @kevininnyc

    Of course I have, the answer is: Don't spawn. Scuttle, or change servers. If you're getting spawn killed the odds of battling back aren't really great. Simply cut your time lost and move on.

    I've done it with my crew, forced spawn killers off our boat and escaped, but it wasnt really much worth it aside from a fleeting middle finger that they couldn't make us quit... meh. wasted time.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @davidbarlow said in The gold sink:

    My thoughts were:

    • Purchasable resources

    I personally think there's a balancing issue that occurs here when a maxed rep Legend crew with 15 mil gold between eachother can just mindlessly buy supplies and stock the ship, ready for a battle without sinking, while a new swabbie crew has to be very cautious what they spend their gold on.

    I don't know, maybe a better option would be to allow us to purchase supply crates speed up the stocking process.

    • Potions (were originally intended for the game)

    I remember something about that, not sure what role potions would play in the game, but again I think it becomes a balancing issue when a more seasoned crew has an easier time blowing gold on something that gives beneficial effects

    • Fully restore a ship (no more ugly patched holes)

    I think this should be do-able once per session, just because I think there's something special about seeing a ship whose hull is riddled with hulls and planks. You know they've been out for a while and have had some exciting times.

    • Ship fortification

    Again, I think there'd be a balancing issue.

    • Gambling

    Would definitely like to see The Arena tavern become the official spot for gambling and/or betting on Arena matches! It would be a great way to give utility to that area.

    • Chests with chance to contain unique unpurchasable cosmetics

    Sounds cool, but the only problem is that this is exhaustible too...

  • MrMalfor
    Master
    Insider

    all the same balancing critic here like every time someone ask for gold sinks and ressource buying.
    i aks again. what is now balanced if i meet a 4 man crew on a galleon? this is not balanced too.
    In every other game i was matched with players who have the same card deck level or the same tier of weapons. Only here it is fact that i sail alone and a 4 man crew on a galleon can attack me.
    I can only laugh about the "no no no, if you can buy planks, the whole game will be unbalanced" I say "the whole buyed planks doesnt help me anyway against the 4 man galleon crew."

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @rip-chongy sagte in The gold sink:

    @bugaboo-bill
    I guess no one's bought the 50 million coin hull yet huh?

    In another thread?
    I sayed make a ship of pure gold and make it cost 500 Billion (EU Billions) gold.
    End of story XD

    @MrMalfor
    Sorry to say that, but you have no clue what you are talking about or seem to have not that much experience with PvP in SoT or sandbox PvP at all.

    A Sloop versus a Galleone is in a disadvantage that is chosen by the sloop player in a Multiplayer Sandbox game.
    You habe multiple ways to avoid that disadvantage. Not allways, not 100%, but nearly 90%

    And Shipbattles of same type are very well balanced and about playerskill
    Not anymore if having more gold becomes a factor.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
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    Founder

    The fact remains that gold lacks purpose and could use it.

    Looking for negatives about buying supplies, instead of using perceived negatives to come to a positive solution is pointless, when the above fact still remains.

    Ok so buying hundreds of supplies is an issue, then they can set it up so that each outpost only offers between 20-30 of any supply with a total supply pool never exceding 60, and a half hour or more reset before you can purchase again at that outpost.

    This way we get a gold sink, that isnt op, and still requires travel which requires time same as finding supplies yourself. Which basically just makes it a choice you can make that dosnt affect balance much if at all.

    We also need scavenging supplies itself to not rely on barrels that have magical respawns.

    Solutions people, not to discount OP’s effort but we have discussed 90% of these ideas before during alpha and we dont need to hear the same negative hypothesis we heard before. Its like you guys are just discussing game development theory instead of using that knowledge to find solutions for this issue that do fit into rares vision, as exampled above with caps on purchases and limited purchaseables, and they could also make them rather expensive compared to just scavenging.

    Edit: having an actual economy with supplies having fluctuating values and the ability to sell aswell as buy, is another solution, because people will all decide on an amount of supplies they would like to keep, and what amount they would rather sell some of to make profit, which makes scavenging itself valuable and purchasing more of a shortcut and possible waste, because as mentioned it still is about skill. You only need like 5 cannonballs or none to sink a ship pretty easily honestly, if you know the game well, which is the accepted form of vertical progression. In this case of values going up and down, buying more than a certain amount and the npc could ramp up the price drastically, making it more risk and gold loss for less supplies. This type of forced npc behavior would incentivize player trading to prevent unnecessary gold loss to npc.

    And again for this economy to work everything would have to be redesigned instead of found in magical barrels. Which is something they will need to address eventually imo, now that animals drop loot and we can cook fish and eventually do more i assume.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    @mrmalfor

    all the same balancing critic here like every time someone ask for gold sinks and ressource buying.

    i aks again. what is now balanced if i meet a 4 man crew on a galleon? this is not balanced too.

    In every other game i was matched with players who have the same card deck level or the same tier of weapons. Only here it is fact that i sail alone and a 4 man crew on a galleon can attack me.

    I can only laugh about the "no no no, if you can buy planks, the whole game will be unbalanced" I say "the whole buyed planks doesnt help me anyway against the 4 man galleon crew."

    These aren't two comparable things. You chose to sail solo, while the game as well as the company gives you an avenue of finding crew mates. You chose not to use them. No one but you forces you to play in an unbalanced way.

  • KevinInNYC
    Marauder
    Insider

    @davidbarlow Pardon me, but I find most of your ideas terrible, except for gambling and restoring your ship. They give rich crews an advantage:

    I can just forage for supplies if I "don't want to" (can't) buy them? Oh, so the rich crew gets to the skelly fort first by buying supplies? How is that not an advantage? And what if that rich crew are griefers that go to an outpost and clean out the barrels and THEN buy a hoard of supplies? This is just such an awful, game-killing idea. And please, don't respond with how "things aren't really like that anymore". I play the game too.

    Protection for the bottom of your ship? Oh, so you can pull tighter turns around islands and rocks when evading another ship, confident you won't cause damage? Again, how is that not an advantage?

    Loot boxes are something we're trying to get rid of in gaming, not encourage.

    The problem I see with gambling is people running out of gold, and becoming aggressive PvPers to steal more gambling money, because they're too broke to buy a voyage. We need less aggro stuff in this game, there's too much already. Then again, it would keep players off the seas and leave me to voyage in peace, so I'm ambivalent.

    Now the buying of a ship "refit," with capstan and wheel restored, is a great way to spend gold. A rowboat upgrade, with fancy oars and oarlocks and a mini figurehead, would also be great. Also, buying a custom title (where you could type in the exact title and spelling, subject to approval, of course) would be worth some coins. Medals and fancy epaulets, as well as jeweled rings, gold earrings, and skull pendants would catch my eye. A musical instrument you could actually play, as opposed to triggering an audio file, would bring big coin. Oh, and a Pirate Throne (a fancy stool) to sit on while fishing off the deck, and a tackle box to hold your catch. (Sell these at outposts.) There aren't nearly enough footwear options. Buying your own theme song, that would play when you set foot on another crew's deck, would be very impressive. Harder to implement but really flashy would be a Pirate Hype Crew, NPCs who walk behind you whenever you are at an outpost, acting really impressed with you and murmuring things like "greatest pirate ever...I heard he killed the Kraken with a dirty look...." Renting a private room at the tavern for your crew with an NPC bouncer.

    See? Lots of ideas. The rich have enough advantages IRL. Let's not give them any on the Sea.

  • Corvum Mortis
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @davidbarlow Ship repairs and gambling are the only "sinks" I can agree with, and maybe rng boxes. Otherwise you're going against the grain of the game.

    Buyable resources have been discussed to death and would not work.

    Potions should be crafted, not purchased for the same reasons as resources.

    And ship fortifications, even if only a slight sailing advantage is still an advantage.

    However, ship repairs are visual only, so that could be cool. Gambling would be fun but I think the logistics could be tricky. And random loot boxes could work (especially if micro transactions are added)

    Ultimately though, I don't think any of this adds much value to gold... not longer than a week or so anyways. Not saying I have a better solution, but I definitely agree that there should be more to keep the desire for gold strong.

  • davidbarlow
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @a-cranky-eskimo said in The gold sink:

    Solutions people, not to discount OP’s effort but we have discussed 90% of these ideas before during alpha and we dont need to hear the same negative hypothesis we heard before. Its like you guys are just discussing game development theory instead of using that knowledge to find solutions for this issue that do fit into rares vision, as exampled above with caps on purchases and limited purchaseables, and they could also make them rather expensive compared to just scavenging.

    This is something people on these forums really need to learn. Nobody is searching for solutions. People are only thinking of ways how things couldnt work.

  • MysticDragon297
    Master
    Insider

    heres the situation with a gold sink to me.

    if there is a gold sink and even if it provided buffs, players would ultimately use these buffs to get more gold ,waste them entirely, or use them solely for hunting other players which hardly gives them any reward. the gold sink would be pointless.

    my idea for a perfect gold sink is to create a bunch of new cosmetics and a new faction. this faction will hand out quests where the player would normally find it and bring it back. instead of rewarding gold, it rewards the player a random cosmetic item. duplicate items would simply give them a little bit of gold back.

  • davidbarlow
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @kevininnyc said in The gold sink:

    Loot boxes are something we're trying to get rid of in gaming, not encourage.

    Loot boxes for real money that is. There is nothing wrong with spending in game gold. "Chance" mechanics have been a part of gaming since the early days. Nothing wrong with the idea I proposed.

  • NunoAzuldimeter
    Champion
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @davidbarlow wow!
    I loved this Topic!!!
    I think this makes a lot of sense and it's exactly what we need to give meaning to Gold!

    Congrats for the post and thank you for the time you invested while thinking and composing this.

    @The3SheetsNeate this may be a good way to go.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @davidbarlow said in The gold sink:

    @cotu42 You were just complaining about older and experienced crews having an advantage vs newer crews? Right now there already exists the experience advantage and newer crews without loot are getting killed without a reason.

    They could limit a hidden matchmaking to the early skill levels. The open crew function stays the same.

    If you cant sink a gal/brig within 10 minutes you're just not good enough. Especially with the new ship damage. Have fun with yours 300+ resources.

    If we already have an advantage why do we need more? Also, if I cannot sink a ship in 10 mins as a solo versus an experienced crew of 3 or 4 people I am bad? What does that say about them for being sunk within that time while having 3 or 4 times the amount of people?

    Sorry, but if I want to win any battle while being out numbered against anyone that knows what they are doing than I cannot go for the quick and easy sink, as that only works on people that are way out classed by my own experience and isn't the tale I took as I have done that but don't really see the need to boost about how I slaughtered a whole galleon in mins. The moment I notice that they are not good at the game yes I can get rid of them quickly, else the battle has to be based on them making mistakes cause guess what.... they are also skilled. My first goal as a solo is to ensure that I don't sink to an experienced crew before I can I sink them.

    I for one know I can beat crews that have some skill by myself and you clearly never taken on and won against any type of experienced crew by yourself else your 10 min claim.. is doing something I don't know or you lost your ship in the process. Imagine you are on the galleon crew, would you sink within 10 mins versus a solo? Now imagine that type of expertise and tell me what is the best tactic you use to defeat someone at your own level and have them have in a crew of 3 or 2 more people on their ship versus you alone. It isn't like I can go board them without jeopardizing my own vessel. Keep in mind you need to stay afloat.

  • RUSTY XBONE
    Master
    Insider

    Neate told me that the plan on the horizon is to open the locked house/room which was always promised. You'd then have to pay rent, buy furniture (think Animal crossing), pets, paint. wallpaper etc

    This is due in Dec which will be a great end to the year

  • Jack3ast
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @cotu42 said in The gold sink:

    Loot boxes is a hot topic at the moment and sounds like a bad idea especially with multiple countries looking to classifying this as online gambling. Really not worth the risk.

    I've heard about this, but doesn't that yeld for Loot boxes where the currency you buy them with can come from spending IRL-cash, and the reward from the box can be sold to earn IRL-cash?. Thus it is not a "simulated gambling" anymore.

    Buying a lootbox with ingame currency only obtainable from ingame, to get items that can not be traded, doesn't sound like a 'online gambling' more than your average offline texas hold'em

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @jack3ast said in The gold sink:

    @cotu42 said in The gold sink:

    Loot boxes is a hot topic at the moment and sounds like a bad idea especially with multiple countries looking to classifying this as online gambling. Really not worth the risk.

    I've heard about this, but doesn't that yeld for Loot boxes where the currency you buy them with can come from spending IRL-cash, and the reward from the box can be sold to earn IRL-cash?. Thus it is not a "simulated gambling" anymore.

    Buying a lootbox with ingame currency only obtainable from ingame, to get items that can not be traded, doesn't sound like a 'online gambling' more than your average offline texas hold'em

    Which brings it in line with issues with laws where gambling mechanics are presented to minors.

    Which I mentioned with the gambling additions can have legal implications and have the game banned or classified for adults only in different areas in the world that it currently might be offered in. That is why I am stating that it most likely is not worth the risk of introducing such a feature.

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