My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing)

@watcheyewendigo

What we have NOT been finding fun and engaging are galleons rolling up on our ships just as we load into the game and stealing our ship as we're stocking. Or killing us over and over, even though we have nothing more than the startup supplies... which they aren't even taking.

Sinking ships isn't griefing though, sometimes when I see a ship at an outpost that I'm going too, I will just sink it. Why, you may ask? On the simple grounds that I'm not going to risk losing loot to someone I don't know what their intentions are. If they are also refusing to sink you, just scuttle, if you just spawned as you said, you aren't out anything. As well as you can see ships roll up on you, these ships just don't appear out of nowhere.

We have NOT been finding fun in trying to do a voyage, and having some fellow camp the area we're voyaging in for literally -hours-, chasing us off and sinking our empty ship every time we come near to do it.

If I know you have an objective there, and you have something that I want, I'm just being smart about it. How do you know they don't have an objective there? Just this past Monday, we sunk this ship circling Wanderer's Refuge. We noticed two things while sinking them. The first, was that they seemed to linger on that island and circled it multiple times. The second was that they had a Gilded Athena voyage down. While our ship with two crew members went to sell the looted loot on our galleon, the other two pitched a tent on the island. Surprise, surprise, the ship returned. Our boat lingered on a nearby island and waited. Myself and the other guy get spotted on the island, we run and seperate. He ended up being the distraction and I snuck up on the boat. They killed him and seemingly forgot about me. I patiently wait 10 minutes, and low and behold an Athena chest appears. I signal the crew, they start to move, while the other two Athena chests get loaded. I wait til the ship is close to attack, then I proceed to drop their anchor and kill their crew. They sunk and we are 3 Gilded chests richer.

Essentially it pays to wait and guarding a location isn't against the rules, this isn't griefing.

We have NOT been finding fun in people just following us incessantly, again for all of the hours that we play, only coming in to sink our ship as we start our Order of Souls objective.

While scummy sure, but sinking ships isn't griefing, neither is chasing. If it truly bugs you, switch servers.

Unfortunately mate none of this at all sounds like griefing to me.

@nabberwar said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo
Sinking ships isn't griefing though, sometimes when I see a ship at an outpost that I'm going too, I will just sink it. Why, you may ask? On the simple grounds that I'm not going to risk losing loot to someone I don't know their intentions of. If they are also refusing to sink you, just scuttle, if you just spawned as you said, you aren't out anything. As well as you can see ships roll up on you, these ships just don't appear out of nowhere.

When they have nothing on board, and I have nothing on board, they need to sink me to protect the nothing they have? No. They're camping outposts and intentionally stealing ships of/killing people that just logged in, knowing they have nothing, and knowing that most people are distracted right off the bat with stocking their ship (PLUS that they are placed in the inn where they can't see their ship).

If I know you have an objective there, and you have something that I want, I'm just being smart about it. How do you know they don't have an objective there? Just this past Monday, we sunk this ship circling Wanderer's Refuge. We noticed two things while sinking them. The first, was that they seemed to linger on that island and circled it multiple times. The second was that they had a Gilded Athena voyage down. While our ship with two crew members went to sell the looted loot on our galleon, the other two pitched a tent on the island. Surprise, surprise, the ship returned. Our boat lingered on a nearby island and waited. Myself and the other guy get spotted on the island, we run and seperate. He ended up being the distraction and I snuck up on the boat. They killed him and seemingly forgot about me. I patiently wait 10 minutes, and low and behold an Athena chest appears. I signal the crew, they start to move, while the other two Athena chests get loaded. I wait til the ship is close to attack, then I proceed to drop their anchor and kill their crew. They sunk and we are 3 Gilded chests richer.

Again, nothing on my ship. And they have nothing on theirs. And they won't even let me DO the objective to get something to steal. If I sink them? They come back, because they know I am in the area. Griefing.

While scummy sure, but sinking ships isn't griefing, neither is chasing. If it truly bugs you, switch servers.

Unfortunately mate none of this at all sounds like griefing to me.

So you think its okay to chase a ship for hours, with nothing on their boat and nothing on yours, sinking ships? Okay.

@watcheyewendigo

So you think its okay to chase a ship for hours, with nothing on their boat and nothing on yours, sinking ships?

Yes, yes I do, people can say they have nothing, but oddly enough, people can lie. I've had it where people have said they had nothing, low and behold, they had an Athena. My question in return, is why run? If you are running for hours, as you said, and you have nothing, whats the point to begin with? You could have sank, switched servers and be knee deep in that glittering coin in that hours wasted fleeing. I mean its clear the pursuers are having a good time, your just making yourself miserable at this point.

To summarize the rest of your response, sinking ships, even when they have no loot, isn't griefing. Many people just like getting into scraps. If you can point to a single rule that says I can't sink a ship, I will stop talking.

@watcheyewendigo Of everything you mention, only one thing there would qualify as actual griefing - the repeated spawn killing with nothing to gain. Everything else is what I refer to as an annoyance and most can be avoided if you choose to check your ego.

I myself ran into a batch of players the other night who were actively patrolling a portion of the map. They first offered an alliance as I was pulling into an outpost only to attack me once I had accepted. Realizing what happened, I immediately scuttled and find them bailing on the ship while trying to offload what meager treasure was on board when I respawned. Finally when the ship sank and respawned away from there, I immediately withdrew from the alliance as I knew they only offered it in order to track me...and sure enough they were in route. Ditched them there but sure enough they located me shortly afterwards while I was attempting to solve a riddle. So they bombarded the ship (wasn't able to get back quick enough to escape with it), I dove overboard and swam around the island to wait them out. Ended up dying at the hands of a skellie while they were camping the bay but they never found me. So the rest of the night I focused my adventures on a different portion of the map to avoid them. I did encounter them again later when I returned to that map section where they rammed the ship while jumping on board with a gunpowder keg - but never once did I consider this griefing. Annoying, yes but a perfectly acceptable way to play and part of the danger.

Just because you know you have no treasure doesn't mean they know that, so will have to attack and board you to find out. No reason for you to let them "chase you for hours" (exaggerate much?), especially if you have nothing on board.

If you are not up to the battle or outmanned then check the pride, scuttle and move on. Unless it is a valuable voyage, cancel it and move onto another or do a message in a bottle if you have one ready to tide you over. Or you can get sneaky and lure them away by making them chase you, scuttle when you are far enough away from your desired port and then return later when it is clear. You can also jump ship at your destination and let the ship sail off, drawing the others with it to allow you to complete your task (hiding any treasure or skulls on the island to be retrieved later). Sometimes you just have to outsmart them.

@dlchief58 said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo Of everything you mention, only one thing there would qualify as actual griefing - the repeated spawn killing with nothing to gain. Everything else is what I refer to as an annoyance and most can be avoided if you choose to check your ego.

I myself ran into a batch of players the other night who were actively patrolling a portion of the map. They first offered an alliance as I was pulling into an outpost only to attack me once I had accepted. Realizing what happened, I immediately scuttled and find them bailing on the ship while trying to offload what meager treasure was on board when I respawned. Finally when the ship sank and respawned away from there, I immediately withdrew from the alliance as I knew they only offered it in order to track me...and sure enough they were in route. Ditched them there but sure enough they located me shortly afterwards while I was attempting to solve a riddle. So they bombarded the ship (wasn't able to get back quick enough to escape with it), I dove overboard and swam around the island to wait them out. Ended up dying at the hands of a skellie while they were camping the bay but they never found me. So the rest of the night I focused my adventures on a different portion of the map to avoid them. I did encounter them again later when I returned to that map section where they rammed the ship while jumping on board with a gunpowder keg - but never once did I consider this griefing. Annoying, yes but a perfectly acceptable way to play and part of the danger.

Just because you know you have no treasure doesn't mean they know that, so will have to attack and board you to find out. No reason for you to let them "chase you for hours" (exaggerate much?), especially if you have nothing on board.

If you are not up to the battle or outmanned then check the pride, scuttle and move on. Unless it is a valuable voyage, cancel it and move onto another or do a message in a bottle if you have one ready to tide you over. Or you can get sneaky and lure them away by making them chase you, scuttle when you are far enough away from your desired port and then return later when it is clear. You can also jump ship at your destination and let the ship sail off, drawing the others with it to allow you to complete your task (hiding any treasure or skulls on the island to be retrieved later). Sometimes you just have to outsmart them.

Yet again, if they board me, kill me, check out my ship, see I have NOTHING, and then keep killing me and chasing me, they aren't doing it to "get my loot" or because they "don't know if I do not have loot." Or they take my loot, then continue chasing and killing me just because, they are not doing it because they "do not know if I have loot." They know I do not have loot.

@tedakin said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

I read all the time about all these griefing problems and I never experience any of them. I don't know why others have so many issues.

Also in SOT someone attacking you or stealing your stuff isn't griefing, that's literally part of the game. I think the community is confused on this point.

If you read my post, you would read that there was nothing to steal.

Out of the past 5 days of my friends and I playing, on only 1 day did we get to play through a single voyage before getting griefed in some fashion.

Today, I logged in for some solo slooping, walked out of the inn, looked down at my sloop and saw a galleon rolling towards it. They declared themselves friendly, then hijacked my ship. I was in a curious mood, so I stayed on board.

They drove me to a pirate fort, grounded me where fort cannons could not hit, helped me repair my ship, then told me to go start clearing the fort.

If I went near my wheel or anchor, they shot me.

Still curious, I cleared a few waves of the fort solo, while one of the crew watched me. After a few waves, I saw the galleon roll up and start firing on my ship. They had taken me to clear a fort for them, with the intent of killing me off for the key and treasure while they did 0 work. I had already assumed this, so I logged off once I saw their galleon firing on my sloop.

While even I have to admit that was clever and a little funny, I do not think that is how Rare intended their game to be played. And if you think that all this is not some degree of griefing, well, I have a long list of games in my library that are now dead or near dead, because bad behavior was allowed to flourish, so the PVE players quit the game and it just became a toxic wasteland. I guess if that is where you want all this to go, keep supporting obvious trolling and griefing. Because if this keeps up, Rare is going to end up with a game of trolls that no one wants to play.

Also, Rare, you said you wanted a game where people could log in and play how they wanted to play it.

People who just want to log in, sail, and dig up treasures while chilling with their friends are not getting that delivery from you right now. I'd think about that if I were your company.

@ghostpaw Holy heck man. Your reading comprehension is absolutely awful.

@watcheyewendigo said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@ghostpaw Holy heck man. Your reading comprehension is absolutely awful.

Or this website has some issues. I've had some of my replies go to entirely different threads.

@marsmayflower Doubt it, he directly referenced a small part of what I was talking about. Just not the rest of it.

@watcheyewendigo said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@marsmayflower Doubt it, he directly referenced a small part of what I was talking about. Just not the rest of it.

Ah, then you were serious in your agro post. I thought it was tongue in cheek. Ok, then, let's just revert to insults. Such is the time we live in.

@ghostpaw said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

You somehow thought they were going to be buddy buddy with you after all you described, then you are somewhat shocked they roasted you.

How did you miss the entire part about how they (4 people) took my (1 person) ship at the dock, when I had just logged in, and killed me if I tried to take it back, for that group of 4 to drive MY ship to a fort and not let me touch my own wheel or anchor?

I never expected them to be buddy-buddy. They literally 4v1 hijacked me as soon as I logged into the game. I had not even started to stock my ship yet. Again, your reading comprehension is terrible, as I stated all of that in that post very clearly. I never even said I wanted to be buddy buddy, I said I was curious what their "plan" was. I had two methods of discourse, scuttle or leave the game. If I scuttled, I likely would have run across them again at some point, as they were obviously on the lookout to grief people.

If your solution to fixing a problem is to close a game, then there is a problem with the game.

@marsmayflower Telling someone their reading comprehension is terrible when they have clearly misread an entire post (now evidenced in two posts, since they assumed I was trying to be buddy-buddy with the galleon that hijacked me) is not an insult. I told him he did not comprehend what was read. I did not call him any slurs or nasty words.

@watcheyewendigo ok, buddy

[mod edited]

@watcheyewendigo said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@ghostpaw said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

You somehow thought they were going to be buddy buddy with you after all you described, then you are somewhat shocked they roasted you.

How did you miss the entire part about how they (4 people) took my (1 person) ship at the dock, when I had just logged in, and killed me if I tried to take it back, for that group of 4 to drive MY ship to a fort and not let me touch my own wheel or anchor?

I never expected them to be buddy-buddy. They literally 4v1 hijacked me as soon as I logged into the game. I had not even started to stock my ship yet. Again, your reading comprehension is terrible, as I stated all of that in that post very clearly. I never even said I wanted to be buddy buddy, I said I was curious what their "plan" was. I had two methods of discourse, scuttle or leave the game. If I scuttled, I likely would have run across them again at some point, as they were obviously on the lookout to grief people.

If your solution to fixing a problem is to close a game, then there is a problem with the game.

While yoking other players to do the work is a common Ayn Randian "looter" tactic, the math doesnt make sense here.

A 4 player galleon can clear a fort waaay quicker than a solo inexperienced player watched over by "prison guards". (and with a full crew, enjoyable, compared to the stress of working solo)

If you see a ship lurking an island or two away from your skull fort, and they haven't closed yet, they plan to. just waiting for the skull cloud to dissipate. As soon as the fort key hits the lock, they "magically" appear in your 6.

it does seem though that the player who isnt down with the fine print (when you signed up to play, you know that means getting hassled all the time. you agreed to be the tackling dummy! No backsies!) has to be the one who adapts. a design that requires interrupting the "flow" just to carve out entertainment satisfaction will bleed players.

@khompewtur said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@ghostpaw said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

You somehow thought they were going to be buddy buddy with you after all you described, then you are somewhat shocked they roasted you.

How did you miss the entire part about how they (4 people) took my (1 person) ship at the dock, when I had just logged in, and killed me if I tried to take it back, for that group of 4 to drive MY ship to a fort and not let me touch my own wheel or anchor?

I never expected them to be buddy-buddy. They literally 4v1 hijacked me as soon as I logged into the game. I had not even started to stock my ship yet. Again, your reading comprehension is terrible, as I stated all of that in that post very clearly. I never even said I wanted to be buddy buddy, I said I was curious what their "plan" was. I had two methods of discourse, scuttle or leave the game. If I scuttled, I likely would have run across them again at some point, as they were obviously on the lookout to grief people.

If your solution to fixing a problem is to close a game, then there is a problem with the game.

While yoking other players to do the work is a common Ayn Randian "looter" tactic, the math doesnt make sense here.

A 4 player galleon can clear a fort waaay quicker than a solo inexperienced player watched over by "prison guards".

If you see a ship lurking an island or two away from your skull fort, and they haven't closed yet, they plan to. just waiting for the skull cloud to dissipate.

it does seem though that the player who isnt down with the fine print (when you signed up to play, you know that means getting hassled all the time. you agreed to be the tackling dummy!) has to be the one who adapts. a design that requires interrupting the "flow" just to carve out entertainment satisfaction will bleed players.

Do you not understand that griefing isn't done with the goal of getting a fort, or getting loot? Its done to bully, harass, or waste other people's time. Griefing is literally a fancy online word we came up with to describe bullying people in video games.

If a person wants to grief, they will waste their own time making sure they are wasting other people's time. They will wait around for that perfect person to bully, and then follow through with it. Therefore, a group of 4 bored pirate legends will wait around for a solo slooper to show up at a port just to mess with them. That is what griefing is. The possibility of getting loot is not a primary objective. It is secondary, or not even an objective at all. The primary objective of griefing is to laugh at and mock people while you waste their time.

@watcheyewendigo said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@khompewtur said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@ghostpaw said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

You somehow thought they were going to be buddy buddy with you after all you described, then you are somewhat shocked they roasted you.

How did you miss the entire part about how they (4 people) took my (1 person) ship at the dock, when I had just logged in, and killed me if I tried to take it back, for that group of 4 to drive MY ship to a fort and not let me touch my own wheel or anchor?

I never expected them to be buddy-buddy. They literally 4v1 hijacked me as soon as I logged into the game. I had not even started to stock my ship yet. Again, your reading comprehension is terrible, as I stated all of that in that post very clearly. I never even said I wanted to be buddy buddy, I said I was curious what their "plan" was. I had two methods of discourse, scuttle or leave the game. If I scuttled, I likely would have run across them again at some point, as they were obviously on the lookout to grief people.

If your solution to fixing a problem is to close a game, then there is a problem with the game.

While yoking other players to do the work is a common Ayn Randian "looter" tactic, the math doesnt make sense here.

A 4 player galleon can clear a fort waaay quicker than a solo inexperienced player watched over by "prison guards".

If you see a ship lurking an island or two away from your skull fort, and they haven't closed yet, they plan to. just waiting for the skull cloud to dissipate.

it does seem though that the player who isnt down with the fine print (when you signed up to play, you know that means getting hassled all the time. you agreed to be the tackling dummy!) has to be the one who adapts. a design that requires interrupting the "flow" just to carve out entertainment satisfaction will bleed players.

Do you not understand that griefing isn't done with the goal of getting a fort, or getting loot? Its done to bully, harass, or waste other people's time. Griefing is literally a fancy online word we came up with to describe bullying people in video games.

If a person wants to grief, they will waste their own time making sure they are wasting other people's time. They will wait around for that perfect person to bully, and then follow through with it. Therefore, a group of 4 bored pirate legends will wait around for a solo slooper to show up at a port just to mess with them. That is what griefing is. The possibility of getting loot is not a primary objective. It is secondary, or not even an objective at all. The primary objective of griefing is to laugh at and mock people while you waste their time.

Are you talking about schaudenfreude? Or just straight up sociopathy.

@khompewtur From Wikipedia:

"A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game (trolling), using aspects of the game in unintended ways."

straight from google:
scha·den·freu·de
/ˈSHädənˌfroidə/

noun
pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.
"a business that thrives on schadenfreude"

@khompewtur Basically, yes. They do it to laugh at the misfortune of the person that they are griefing. The thing is, they are also causing the misfortune. Its not, say, laughing at the person who gets a Kraken spawn while trying to chase you down.

@starquest Read the first post again, slowly this time. You could not be more wrong.

@starquest You consider people chasing you for 3 hours, coming back to keep chasing you when you sink them, normal PVP? Or do you assume I hate PVP because, when I have 3 hours to play a night, I don't want to spend all 3 hours doing only PVP and would like to dig up treasure or kill skeletons every now and again?

And ONLY PVPing with that one group of people for those 3 hours, at that, nonstop?

@starquest Actually, it seems you do not understand the fundamental difference between griefing and pvp... of which I call bull. I think you do understand and are trying to defend the behavior. If so, that means that you are actually part of the problem.