PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    So this is a topic I see pop up a lot. "Give us PvE servers! Come'on Rare, its what the people want!" And every time I see it, all I can think of is how narrow and selfish the line of thinking from those who are requesting PvE servers. People who request PvE servers fail to see the bigger and better picture.

    I try not to be someone to post topics in response to feedback given by others, but this "No PvE servers" thing is my soapbox. I really believe it would do more harm than good. Let's take a look at the summary of Sea of Thieves that's available here on the website:

    Sea of Thieves is a new type of multiplayer game that delivers all you need to live the free-roaming pirate life. Whether adventuring as a group or sailing solo, you'll encounter other crews... but will they be friends or foes, and how will you respond?

    This statement is a clear illustration of what to expect in Sea of Thieves. This game is great and special because players of many different motivations play together in one shared world. It isn't interesting because bloodthirsty people go out and fight eachother. It isn't interesting because everyone got together in an alliance and played music together. It is interesting and special because all of these things happen in one shared world.

    Adding PvE servers for people who prefer to form alliances and avoid other crews would ruin what makes this game special. People who prefer that play style will put themselves in the PvE server every time. Why wouldn't they? Which means the regular PvEvP servers will be left only with people who have the common motivation of hostility and theft. People in the PvE servers will all have the common motivation of alliances and peace.

    Now instead of one big interesting world, you have two BORING and predictable worlds. Then Sea of Thieves as we know it is ruined. There are those of us who love stealing from other players, and then there are those who like to form alliances to succeed and rise up against the thieves. We need eachother! In order for Sea of Thieves to continue to be special, we need to be playing together and to continue making these stories from the contrasting motivations that we all have.

    Rare doesn't have to create PvE servers just because some consumers want it. They don't have to bend to your will. Creating The Arena does not mean they have to create PvE servers. You shouldn't just ask for things that cater more to your own chosen play style, because that may have detrimental effects on the game itself. Apart from that, you were well aware of what the game was before you bought it.

    Why is it that gamers today measure their fun based on rewards earned at the end of a session? Why is it that they must win the prize in order for something to be fun? I could have so much more fun losing 50k worth of treasure in an epic and interesting ship fight, than I would just peacefully digging up chests all night without ever seeing another player.

    Sea of Thieves thrives off of all of the different play styles existing in one shared world. Its what makes the game alive. Its what makes the stories worth telling. Allowing the playerbase just to assort itself into different servers based on play style preference completely goes against the Sea of Thieves concept.

    And no, I don't believe The Arena will cause the same issues I'm highlighting here. From what we know so far, The Arena only allows for progression in one trading company, and probably will not contain Tall Tales and other content that will most likely only be available in The Adventure mode. It will be high pressure and we'll all want a break from it after a bit of time playing in it.

    EDIT: Thanks everyone for being polite with one another so far. As the discussion continues, lets keep things intelligent, polite, and mature. Lets not have this be a breeding ground for bickering and conflict.

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  • Scarvolt253
    Master
    Insider

    Aye, well said!

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @chronodusk I'm sorry to say I can only upvote once...

  • x5h3ar3rx
    Master
    Insider

    @chronodusk Agreeeeed! Fantastic post! 🍻

  • SirTreeThaChief
    Marauder
    Insider

    AYE!! where is the fun of a voyage if you don't have that heart pounding adrenaline from stopping a slimey sea racoon stealing your precious booty

  • Ixxolos
    Lord
    Insider

    Compelled to concur with this, albeit on the assumption that wanting full PvP servers would also render the same unwanted feeling.

    That being said i can see the possibility of some sort of server options being given to players many many many moons from now.

    Like a way to select/deselect enhance/nerf certain aspects of the Arena and Adventure sessions.
    This i feel if added in any capacity would not be an addition to the game from Rare due to outcry from the player base but to assist with the communities varied playstyles/wants/needs/wishes purely for the sake of this titles longevity years from now.
    Change is the only constant.

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    The main issue is that griefers can always enjoy their play-style and get rewarded by fun or loot, while the friendly pirates can never enjoy their play-style and lose their enjoyment or loot to griefers who attack them.

    If you don't want PvE servers come up with the solution that would counterbalance friendly players being griefed and the griefers being rewarded for said griefing.

    Definition of "griefing" in my post, because I am sure it's needed: Pirates that steal, kill or sink other pirates that aren't interested in pvp interactions.

  • vorondil1394
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @chronodusk great post! Politely and convincingly presents what I agree is the correct way of seeing it.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @ixxolos said in PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves:

    Compelled to concur with this, albeit on the assumption that wanting full PvP servers would also render the same unwanted feeling.

    Yeah you're correct, but I highly doubt The Arena will bring that unwanted feeling. I had my concerns at first, but after seeing the promo videos and hearing Joe talk about it at Inside Xbox a while back led me to believe that The Arena is being implemented in a way that ensures people will continue going back to the shared adventure world for the original Sea of Thieves experience.

  • Phelim McNab
    Marauder

    @archaell That isn't a proper definition of "griefing". You are basically saying it is griefing to play the game.

    The game is designed to allow for theft and PvP interactions. That's why the reward system is set up the way it is - rewards for physical loot aren't yours until you turn that loot in.

    Just as PvP players have to accept the PvE portion of the game, PvE players have to accept the PvP portion of the game. It is a shared PvPvE experience.

    Anyone who comes into the game seeking solely PvP encounters or PvE experiences has the wrong mindset about this game and will, undoubtedly, be disappointed.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @archaell said in PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves:

    The main issue is that griefers can always enjoy their play-style and get rewarded by fun or loot, while the friendly pirates can never enjoy their play-style and lose their enjoyment or loot to griefers who attack them.

    If you don't want PvE servers come up with the solution that would counterbalance friendly players being griefed and the griefers being rewarded for said griefing.

    Definition of "griefing" in my post, because I am sure it's needed: Pirates that steal, kill or sink other pirates that aren't interested in pvp interactions.

    But when you buy Sea of Thieves, you are essentially saying “I am interested to being exposed to PvP interactions” because the game is sold to you with that aspect being highlighted as a regular part of what you’ll experience.

    This means it isn’t griefing. If you don’t want PvP interactions, but you still want to play Sea of Thieves, you have to take the good with the bad and understand what you voluntarily got yourself into. The consumer can’t just buy the game and then ask and expect the developer to change fundamental aspects of the game.

    I hate for that to sound cruel because I really don’t mean it that way. But it makes sense - you bought in to the “friendly or hostile shared world” concept and now that’s what you have to work with. It just can’t be anything else.

  • FearTheBeardIG
    Master
    Insider

    @archaell so the whole point of Sea of Thieves is griefing for you? Really whats wrong with this kind thinking?

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    There's no point in arguing this anymore. Rare is going to do whatever they feel like they need to do, as they proved with the Crossplay Opt-Out. If there is enough demand for something, its likely going to happen and there are plenty of people screaming for a PvE mode.

  • CStrap
    Marauder

    I think the actual word 'griefer' gets thrown around lighly on here quite a bit. There certainly are griefers in the game, as will be with every online multiplayer game, but the vast majority of people that I've come across are either attack for loot or attacking because they enjoy the PvP. Of all the times in the year I've been playing the game, I can honestly say I only ran into a group of griefers a handful of times (getting harassing messages, getting purposely camped, etc.). Most PvP players are sincerely playing the game that matches their play style and don't mean to spoil anyone's fun.

    I'm a friendly pirate who's preferred playstyle is "We won't attack if you won't". Take it from me - the problem is not PvP players that want to attack. The problem is people not understand that it's simply part of the game. I almost like to look at other pirates as NPCs that you would normally find in a video game. While I don't necessarily go out looking to fight someone, the game would be boring if it was just "go to island - dig treasure - sail to outpost - sell - repeat." (That being said, it's nice to be able to do a quest without any sort of conflict every once in a while). The beautiful thing about Sea of Thieves is it gives you options on what you can do! Will you attack that ship? Will you form an alliance with that ship? Will you just sail by and see what happens? Will you go out of your away to avoid conflict because you have precious loot on your boat? It's these thing that keep the game fun and interesting. Sometimes, we lose - and that's okay. It's all part of the learning curve. It doesn't mean the game needs to change.

    The main argument I see for people is "There's just not another good pirate game out there". There are plenty of other treasure hunting games out there that you can play where you don't have to worry about someone attacking you and taking your loot. This is a game that the vast majority of players all agree that it is fine the way it is and doesn't need to change to fit the needs of players who got sank, got mad, and then bombarded Rare to change it.

    There are plenty of tips and tricks you can learn to defend your loot and yourself. If you refuse to learn all these tricks and/or refuse to improve on your overall gameplay - then this just isn't the game for you. Everyone, from a day 1 player to a PL10 is provided with the same and equal tools to succeed in SoT. It's not our fault and we don't want our game to change.

    EDIT: Everyone talking about the definition of griefing started popping up while I was typing this out, so this post is behind on that subject.

  • StarQuest
    Lord
    Insider
    Founder

    @archaell You bought the game and selected set sail. You essentially are saying your interested in pvp interactions as that's part of the game. Its pvp and pve, I do not want a strict pvp server or a strict pve server for adventure mode and that would dilute down the game as op so nicely put it. You would essentially ruin the game for people who enjoy both.

  • x5h3ar3rx
    Master
    Insider

    The words "griefers" and "toxic" are getting thrown around waaaaaay out of context

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @d3adst1ck said in PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves:

    There's no point in arguing this anymore. Rare is going to do whatever they feel like they need to do, as they proved with the Crossplay Opt-Out. If there is enough demand for something, its likely going to happen and there are plenty of people screaming for a PvE mode.

    If they feel like they can do it in a way that ensures that the majority player base will still get the experience they know and love, then they can have at it. Otherwise it would be a foolish cop out for them to allow their game to suffer from the implementation of PvE servers just because people chose to cry out rather than adapt. I doubt they'll do it though.

    If I remember correctly, a while back they said "No safe zones or PvE servers, no matter how much Reddit wants them."

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @chronodusk They've said a lot of things and then backtracked on them later. I wouldn't be surprised if this is also one of them.

  • vorondil1394
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @d3adst1ck yep. I agree. But if they follow the majority, then that's just more reason to make it clear that those calling for PvE servers are not in the majority -- by teaching them to see the PvPvE vision and by telling Rare that there are many of us out there that don't like the idea. Hence this thread, I assume :)

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    Unless the issue I mentioned gets fixed the pve servers are eventually inevitable. Like it or not.

    I provided the context of the word "grief" in my post to avoid people crying about it. The best word would be "piracy" but in this game all the players are pirates, even those who are peaceful sailors, so another word is needed to describe players that steal fun and loot from others and griefing is quite close to it even if you dislike it.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @vorondil1 said in PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves:

    @d3adst1ck yep. I agree. But if they follow the majority, then that's just more reason to make it clear that those calling for PvE servers are not in the majority -- by teaching them to see the PvPvE vision and by telling Rare that there are many of us out there that don't like the idea. Hence this thread, I assume :)

    Yup. It happens all too often that the people who are happy with the way things are remain quiet. Then the loud minority are the only ones who are heard, making them to appear to be the majority when they're really far from it.

    That's why people who like things the way they are must make that known from time to time. That feedback is very important.

  • CStrap
    Marauder

    @archaell said in PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves:

    Definition of "griefing" in my post, because I am sure it's needed: Pirates that steal, kill or sink other pirates that aren't interested in pvp interactions.

    That’s not a good enough definition for griefing. That’s legitimately someone playing the game as it’s intended. Griefing is more like “I know you need to go to this island so I’m gonna sit here and make sure you can’t finish it”, or “I’m gonna camp your boat WITHOUT sinking it to make sure you just never get to spawn and i’m gonna do it till you quit the game”. You can’t get call griefing on someone for starting combat with you just cause you don’t want it. It’s an essential part of the game -defend!

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @archaell said in PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves:

    Unless the issue I mentioned gets fixed the pve servers are eventually inevitable. Like it or not.

    I provided the context of the word "grief" in my post to avoid people crying about it. The best word would be "piracy" but in this game all the players are pirates, even those who are peaceful sailors, so another word is needed to describe players that steal fun and loot from others and griefing is quite close to it even if you dislike it.

    People looking for PvE only servers are crying out against an aspect of the game that they knew would be a major part of it all along. Saying they're not interested in PvP interactions is not an excuse because there again, you're essentially saying "I'm okay with that" when you buy Sea of Thieves. That's their own problem and not Rare's.

    As I said, no matter what your motivations are or how different they are from someone else's, Sea of Thieves needs us all to be playing together in a shared world to be what it is.

    I hate to sound so blunt or harsh, and I really don't mean anything negative by it. I hope you enjoy yourself on the seas, friend.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @archaell said in PvE Servers Would Hurt Sea of Thieves:

    The main issue is that griefers can always enjoy their play-style and get rewarded by fun or loot, while the friendly pirates can never enjoy their play-style and lose their enjoyment or loot to griefers who attack them.

    If you don't want PvE servers come up with the solution that would counterbalance friendly players being griefed and the griefers being rewarded for said griefing.

    Definition of "griefing" in my post, because I am sure it's needed: Pirates that steal, kill or sink other pirates that aren't interested in pvp interactions.

    Griefing is not what you are stating. It is a bad idea to call a designed and promoted part of the game as griefing, as it diminishes any point you make and diminishes the value of the word when it actually happens.

    The tools to play the game in a pve sense are already there:

    1. Pirates do not appear out of thin air, pay attention to our surroundings.
    2. Sail away from others.
    3. Scuttle when caught.
    4. Sell often so you don't lose much.

    It does require you to be a good sailor and be alert, but being a PvE player doesn't mean you don't need to learn to perfect your style.

    Many people out there manage to sail around do PvE and lose rarely any treasure by responding properly to the threats out on the sea.

  • CStrap
    Marauder

    @archaell also, something I don’t understand - how are people supposed to know you don’t have anything worth value BEFORE you attack them? And when they do attack you, get on your boat, see you don’t have anything - what are they supposed to do? “Hey, these guys don’t have anything. Stop all combat and sail away”. Sorry, but that’s just not how the game is. I guarantee you wouldn’t even do that

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @chronodusk

    To be honest, Rare can make a PvE mode. The thing is that this mode needs to be like the Arena mode for PvP. Provide a brand new experience, with new rewards and faction.

    I agree with you that the PvE mode as many suggest that just is Adventure mode without PvP is a bad idea.

    The game should strive to provide us with unique experiences based on the mode we select, not the same ones with elements removed.

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    PvE players don't like being griefed, they stop playing, when enough of them stop playing Rare is going to create PvE servers, because it's solution that works in other games. The griefers will be playing only with players willing to be griefed and pve players with pve players. That's the most likely scenario.

    In real life the pirates were named, shamed and executed for their actions. In the SoT griefers have free reign, because there are no consequences. On top of that friendly pirates get punished for being friendly. That's the problem with game's design that has to be attended.

  • TruthfulList56
    Insider

    @chronodusk Do you feel an offline version of the current game would have the same impact? I imagine it having completely separate progression and strictly solo play. I have bad internet, so I would love to see an offline mode added.

    I partially agree that a PvE server would be bad for the game. If it had separate progression and you started from scratch, I think a lot of people would remain in the regular servers. I would really only play it when I only had a short amount of time to play, otherwise I'd be in regular servers. Still, I agree it might not be the best route for the game.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @archaell

    So when I'm in a galleon at a skull fort and an alliance of two or three sloops comes and sinks me so that they may cooperate with one another and earn the spoils of the skull fort. Is that friendly players being punished? I don't think so.

    When fully allianced servers are all sailing around making their own money, plus 50% of everyone else's loot. Can we say friendly players are being punished? No.

    There are plenty of examples of friendly behavior being more profitable for players. The alliance system was a perfect way to give friendly play its advantages.

    People who would rather not engage have the option to sail away. They simply need to be good enough at the game to know how and when to make their decisions. The argument that the current system is flawed or unfair to friendly players simply doesn't hold any water.
    The game is not unfair to those who are friendly.

  • Arend Haller
    Legend
    Insider

    Absolutely agree mate!

    Also, I think there is a lil' thing that great majority of those who are calling for PvE servers seem to miss.
    Namely: How would adding PvE servers would stop griefers from trolling them???
    I mean if some madness would overtake devs' minds and they would, dunno, disable weapon and cannon usage or something like that, there are a lot of ways to ruin thier day without PvP. All one must do is hop on random crews and put a bomb-barrel on thier ship and light it up, take thier helm and steer into rocks or away from the island they have thier mission on, constantly threw thier riches overboard, puke at them and prevent from steering the ship, drop the anchor all times, manipulate the sails to obscure thier vision, provoke sea monsters and skelly ships. The list GOES ON.

    So Tell me would adding PvE only servers would actually change anything and prevent that activities from happenning? Couse I think the so called "grieving" pro-PvE'ers are talking about would not stop, but only took much vicious form.

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    @chronodusk

    1. Yes.
    2. No because that's not unwanted pvp situation.
    3. Friendly interactions may be profitable on alliance servers (unless summit joins in) but the griefing is rewarding always, because the victim always loses time or resources or loot.
    4. Friendly pirates don't have option to ignore the unfriendly players - they are forced to interact with them and they are punished for not sinking every ship they see, because that's the most rewarding option right now.

    Btw. I don't like the idea of PvE servers. I am just explaining why we are gonna get them, unless the situation gets better for the pve players - we are already gonna get the xbox servers for this reason, because it's assumed that xbox players are friendlier than pc players.

  • Joshahwee

    @archaell it’s a pirate game.. stealing, killing and sinking other pirates is the point of being a pirate! Sea of “THIEVES” not sea of friends.

  • x5h3ar3rx
    Master
    Insider

    I think xbox party chat is to blame for no communication between pirates.. they need a push to talk for sure.. they are unable to hear other crews

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    @joshahwee It's mainly a social game in which the players are supposed to have good time. The pirate part is secondary theme. Unhappy players can lead to radical changes - like the PvE servers. Unless you want that to happen it would be good idea to come up with features that would make the game less frustrating for pve players.

  • Joshahwee

    @archaell being a pirate is not secondary it’s the main point of the game! Stop crying because you got your stuff stolen and get better at the game to keep it from happening again.. THIEVES is literally in the title. Stealing and fighting is literally one of the main aspects of the game. If you want PVE go play Minecraft. Because RARE already knows that a PVE only mode or any kind of safe zone would destroy the game.

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