putting the foot down on toxic behavior within SOT

  • From the day SOT first launched weve had a fair amount of toxic players swarm into the game because they believe since its a pirate game they can behave in any way they want without any kind of consequence for their actions.

    Obviously this is not true and players can be reported for toxic behavior if they are found to be doing it. I believe what rare can do to really drive the point home that we dont want toxic players in the community is that when the game spawns you in for the first time durring that play session yo uget a message reading:

    "By playing sea of theives you understand that toxic behavior will not be tolerated towards other pirates. Any player caught doing so may be in line for punishment by rare for code of conduct violations"

    Or something to that effect to really show that this inexcusable behavior really needs to stop. first joe covered it and now captain falcore has covered it as well. its a serious problem that needs a serious solution to fix. I cant even play one session without running into at least 1 toxic player and in some cases up to 6 at a time.

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  • This is why we need a privateer faction.

  • @xUrbanRanger1x
    What do you define as toxic behavior? This one of the things on this forum that gets debated alot here.

  • @xurbanranger1x

    There's a very similar discussion going on in this thread which you might wish to add to -

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/81704/words-of-wisdom-player-behaviour

  • This post and Rare need to be more clear about what is defined as toxic behavior. I think most people have a general understanding of what kind of things are wrong here, but I think there's some gray area when you consider one person who is being personally offensive using slurs, versus the player who's just making a bit of mild mannered commentary about a missed cutlass swing. (I don't do any of it, for the record) If it is going to be something players can report to Rare CS, or be penalized for there needs to be a clear list of "do nots" and what would be considered examples of unacceptable/bannable behavior.

    I think it goes without saying that being racist, sexist, homophobic, or just outright personally offensive through voice communication should definitely result in a ban. Stuff like this is horrid and unacceptable in any environment, and should never be encountered or tolerated in a video game.

    I personally don't speak to the opposing crew during a fight. In the heat of the moment, I'm not thinking about speaking to my opponent. All of my voice communication goes to my own crew for situation updates/strategizing/etc... But should a player who just pokes fun at his opponent's poorly aimed flintlock shot be penalized? I don't think so, because its more mild and only relates to something happening within the world of the game.

    I think it also goes without saying that sinking other players, stealing, outpost camping, sinking your freshly spawned ship is not toxic behavior, as this is legitimately just a part of the game.

    All that being said, I find it heartbreaking to hear when an experience in a game made someone's day worse instead of better. I'm glad Rare is passionate about making sure that doesn't happen.

  • @chronodusk I agree with that, just report and move on is what I say. Giving trolls a second thought is exactly what they are looking for.

  • The "toxic players" are probably less toxic then you think.
    I have met some pretty angry people but the majority of the "toxic" encounters you get are prob not that toxic... This video for example. Tell me and this other crew how toxic we are in this video please (:
    Edit: I'm just a solo sloop doing some pvp.
    "https://youtu.be/dDMVhgPGaAw"[link text]

  • @chronodusk said in putting the foot down on toxic behavior within SOT:

    This post and Rare need to be more clear about what is defined as toxic behavior.

    100% this..

    Leaving it open to interpretation or leaving it intentionally vague is a very very bad idea.

    Some will say, they do it so that they don't have to deal with the trolling lawyers but that's less bad than dealing with a situation that's interpreted differently by different people.

    There is a reason why the letter of the law is exacting instead of intentionally vague, because leaving it vague opens things up for a whole lot of abuse.

  • Hostis humani generis :)

  • Internet lingo i hate it.

    With that said i wish we could call out people for what they are., Toxic? I would say he is an A ... you know what.
    But i would say a "toxic" player is more like someone that kicks you when you are down.

  • The Pirate Code hangs next to the door in every single tavern and is kind of hard to miss. To add something like you're suggesting, while still maintaining immersion, I think it's best if they just add subsections to the PC to clarify certain things for those willing to read through it. That said, you have to remember - if someone is already intent on breaking the rules, then no posting of any kind will really matter.

  • @sailorkek

  • Give us your definition of a toxic player, I'm curious.

  • @xurbanranger1x as other people said what is your definition of being toxic? With that being said, i think everyone can be without releasing it. I know myself do it sometimes. but it depends on your definition on toxic. I don't think people should be penalized for taunting people if they keep missing shots or if they get aboard their ship and taunt them then. As long as no ones feelings are being hurt just ignore it. If they are yelling, or texting profanities thats another thing. however i have noticed Rare's profanity filter is....highly protective. Case in point you can not type lmbo in text chat without it being typed out. So as long as its not personally hurting you, your friends, shipmates etc. Or shouting curse words or calling you, friends etc names then it really depends on your definition on what a toxic player is.
    Edit realised that by putting the - its "technically" bypassing the the filter. so lmbo it is. Its not a bad word at all.

  • I have the advantage of being deaf, I can't hear it thankfully!

  • @chronodusk said in putting the foot down on toxic behavior within SOT:

    This post and Rare need to be more clear about what is defined as toxic behavior. I think most people have a general understanding of what kind of things are wrong here, but I think there's some gray area when you consider one person who is being personally offensive using slurs, versus the player who's just making a bit of mild mannered commentary about a missed cutlass swing. (I don't do any of it, for the record) If it is going to be something players can report to Rare CS, or be penalized for there needs to be a clear list of "do nots" and what would be considered examples of unacceptable/bannable behavior.

    I think it goes without saying that being racist, sexist, homophobic, or just outright personally offensive through voice communication should definitely result in a ban. Stuff like this is horrid and unacceptable in any environment, and should never be encountered or tolerated in a video game.

    I personally don't speak to the opposing crew during a fight. In the heat of the moment, I'm not thinking about speaking to my opponent. All of my voice communication goes to my own crew for situation updates/strategizing/etc... But should a player who just pokes fun at his opponent's poorly aimed flintlock shot be penalized? I don't think so, because its more mild and only relates to something happening within the world of the game.

    I think it also goes without saying that sinking other players, stealing, outpost camping, sinking your freshly spawned ship is not toxic behavior, as this is legitimately just a part of the game.

    All that being said, I find it heartbreaking to hear when an experience in a game made someone's day worse instead of better. I'm glad Rare is passionate about making sure that doesn't happen.

    To add to this, the best defense is to troll the trolls and grief the greifer's but without saying a word to them other than the likes of: we sank your battleship or I warned ya etc; since they usually want to get a rile out of you.

    I do this in both general and fleet sessions as when I am not focusing on the commendations I have a need to get done as it lets me lock those people down whilst keeping my pvp skills up and keeping them away from the other ships in the sessions (I used to do this in other games as well where it was warranted and is a good way to release the stress).

    Now all that said I have not encountered as many as there were when that one phase started and ended, but if and when I do it's just a battle of attrition until they get bored or rage out.

  • I love talking smack when I get a kill or sink a boat. But I do it with my crewmates and not over a hot mic. I've been playing multiplayer video games from day 1 (quakeworld!!!) and smack talking is just part of the experience. Yea, if someone starts espousing racial epithets, that's not cool. But I don't think someone calling me trash is reason enough for me to make a YouTube diatribe or report it as a hate crime. I just say "ok, buddy". People are starting to put the toxicity label on juvenile braggadocio. If the PC police take over multiplayer video games, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy it as much. Idiots make the world a more colorful place.

  • Have you perhaps considered that the toxic behavior is part of the emotion wheel that creates feelings and interesting stories? - That would be hilariously evil lol.

    Personally I don't mind toxic behavior in online games that much. All the players have the same tools available so they are equal without any form of discrimination. There are options to not play with players that you don't want to play with such as changing servers, there are is also the option to mute others if you dislike their lanague and can't stand up for yourself using your words. The best thing about the toxic players is that they make you feel better about yourself that you aren't like them. Also don't forget that most of the time people getting their loot stolen are the ones who get angry and start being really toxic - which in my opinion is understandable.

  • Once upon a time there were single player games. That was the solution.

    You could find annoying people at the arcade, truth is, and nowadays they set sails to online gaming. That as always been an issue everyone of us had to solve by himself. Rules mean nothing to trolls, they enjoy in breaking them and tend to get stuck to bother people on the opposite.

    So said, i would define "toxic" behaviour has a "common sense X value of actions" metrics: no point in search&destroy in this game, maybe you mistook SoT with LoL, or so.

    But there is always people who express their need of being part of community in an aggressive or bothering way, this happens in real life as in games. Best course of action is stay cool, ignore them. Don't like reporting, i'm more cruel and i know best way to punish toxic players is letting them feel alone and powerless in the open sea..

  • As i believe you cannot rule it as you cannot rule people and make them having feel with you or what violates you i'm taking over and take care for myself.
    Thing is, other players often dont share my point of view about playing games and take it all too serious.
    The way they approach fighting others is not for everybodys fun and a friend match when all (should) have a smile on their face even if they are loosing.
    Less people care for the next to them.
    That's very much true for reallife and extra true for the internet and gamers.
    As long as they share the same opinion all is fine, if not - war!
    Flame war, forum war, game war...

    Play all as you like, if i dont have fun and too many toxic players are around and i cannot handle it i'll just logg off.

    If some say i'm overreacting or too thin-skinned to deal with it and face the reality i tell you this:
    I am not thin skinned and i know what's up about reality and internet slang and behavior, i just disagree and contradict to the way they say "get used to it".
    I dont need to get used to it and i will allways say what i think and what i feel and make my position.
    That's not allways easy and often not very comfortable and i may upset others with my pov like they sometimes let me shake head and facepalm, but i've learned to take care for myself and i will fight toxicity until my last breath if i encounter it.

    Say what you want, behave like you want, i do the same!

    Those who say "it is like it is, adapt or die" or who slightly defend derogative speach and are unable to see that we play a game together and should be very sensitive, friendly and cautious for each other, even if we attack and fight them, to those who dont accept to that i cannot make them thinking the other way, they are hard and unforgiving maybe and just wont accept it, because their credo for life is work hard, fight or die and not take it easy, cooperate, find compromise and get together.
    And i mean that with heavy pvp in mind with fighting hard and unforgiving, but a
    g.. d.... smile on your face.

    And if you approach it like this and the one attacked by you becomes toxic and salty over the top you may ask for a friendly approach and as the stronger one you may consider to make it not that worse for the other.
    I know sometimes people cant handle they have lost. That's their own fault the game is 50/50 PvE and PvP, but the stronger player is always responsible for the weaker and it is not about to let them cry and ruin their day, it is not about to own them and make you feel superior, because that is passive agression, toxicity!
    It makes you look very weak imho.
    It makes you look like you are compensating and be someone who abuse power.
    It is about playing a game together with strangers and having fun, approach all and everything with a smile on your face.
    If not, you are not longer playing a game or completely miss the sense of playing games. Think about it!

    How do you encounter strangers in real life?
    Carefully or overrunning?
    How do you argue with strangers in real life face to face debating a serious topic?
    Respectfully and catious or self handed and opinionated?

    I ask too much?
    I dont think so, but in fact if we see the reality this is way too much i ask for.

    Do all what you like i'll try to handle it and hopefully you are able to handle me.

    Some people just want to see the world burn.
    I have the barbecue, let's have a party and some fun in the end.

    Last but not least who can say and judge if my feelings are hurt, if my limits were exceeded?
    Only me!

    And this in mind i have to take care for others and encounter them and learn their personal limits and respect them.
    No matter in what situation, but especially while playing a game together.
    Yes the game is also about pvp.
    If you arent accepting pvp then dont play the game, but you need not accept toxic pvp what is about harassing and derogative language.
    In no way you should accept that!
    If they sink you and rob you, but stay polite, maybe even show mercy and make fun with you about it, you should be able to take it easy and laugh with them together.
    If you cannot laugh about a lost, while the attacker is making fun and in no way toxic, something is wrong with you approach playing games.
    If they are bullying and insulting you you should report them for beeing rude and disrespectfull.

    And it's only you who can say where the limits were exceeded, nobody else!
    Therefore you the attacker need to be sensitive. Yes, PvP! but care for the others feelings!
    Because it's a game you want to play together versus each other. If there is no one left, you cannot play it any longer.

    Have fun playing!

  • I get why it is a problem, and ofc Rare should do something about it when they are being racist, sexist or something like that.
    Calling someone a noob or something like that is just part of a game where players play against each other tbh. If you are playing a online game, you gotta have some kind of thick skin, there will always be people saying something you dont like to hear, and the sooner you just ignore it the better.
    And no one is forcing you to listen to it, you can always mute the ingame chat.

  • @betsill dark souls?

  • Think I suggested something similar to this waaay earlier in the month when I began to get active in the forums. I was sick of dying and was hoping for some sort of revenge. Just a little something to make the grievers THINK before they just up and killed a random pirate, especially for no particular reason. It's very discouraging, especially for pirates who are new to the seas

  • As much as it annoys me with spawn killers, I just jump server in the end and that’s that. To me toxic players are those who ridicule you based on your gender/race/ age etc... very rarely have I been insulted. When I have been, it’s hurtful, I’m all for the banter and the laughs but when it gets personal I feel that’s where they draw the line.

  • @xurbanranger1x

    Another reference point besides the Pirate Code is also the Xbox Live Code of Conduct..

    Don't harm or harass. E.g
    Scream at, intimidate or bully others.

    https://www.xbox.com/en-gb/legal/codeofconduct


    If you go further and have a read of the Harassment bit found in the Enforcement section it gives further examples:

    What are some examples of harassment?
    Harassment encompasses a number of situations, including, but not limited to:

    • Verbal abuse, profanity, stalking, or griefing directed at other players

    • Trolling

  • @sailorkek He's an NPC in dark souls that gives you the indictment which lets you add players(that invade and kill you) to the book of the guilty. The book of the guilty is a list of "sinners" that are targets for the Wraiths of the Darkmoon to invade and hunt down.

  • @betsill are you calling me An NPC!?
    joke

  • @chronodusk Spawn-killing is lame. It's gaming the game, so to speak. You couldn't do it in real life, so why should it be so easy in the game?

  • @vderickv No context. Galleon was clearly more toxic by asking if you can not buy some expletive.

    Also you had a crew member I am unsure if you were aware of.

  • @kevininnyc I'm not sure I understand your point. My point was just to emphasize that spawn-killing, sinking ships, etc. are not examples of toxic behavior despite what some people would want to have you believe. Toxic behavior occurs during voice communication.

    That said, I'm not the type of person who likes to spawn kill for a few giggles. That isn't what I'm about, but If I want the supplies off of someone's ship, that may mean that me or my mates need to spawnkill you until we've successfully transported all the supplies from your ship to ours.

  • @chronodusk
    I would even add, that's how to properly put down a ship. Why would anyone willingly let a player crew repair and bail their ship uncontested? Any crew worth its salt will not sink from cannon-fire alone.

  • @nabberwar said in putting the foot down on toxic behavior within SOT:

    Any crew worth its salt will not sink from cannon-fire alone.

    You'd be surprised what a few well placed CCBs could do. Even the best of crews can't withstand those, if hit by an equally competent crew.

  • these constant whine about " toxic blah blah blah " i have seen some of the most hypocritical peoples calling others " toxic " because they lost a fight , i have seen the most trash talking peoples then say they will report X and Y after they start things by trash talking themself and say the most ridiculous things ...

    I even have a video on youtube i uploaded recently to show one of many exemple of " trash talking" folks who are hypocrits and call other toxic ...

    I dont mind trash talk , i do not care about it and your sensitivity should be kept to yourself ...

    Do you call " westler " and Westling in the WWE " Toxic because they trash talk one another ? Its a show and SOT is a game ... peoples dont go in your living room to injuriate you personally , its a game take it as one ...

    If peoples anoy you its that simple , you go on their Xbox profile and mute them ... you do not need to go on a vendetta agains them because they said things you see yourself as bad or whatever the case maybe ...

    I cannot understand this new trend that is almost like a " cult mindset " of eternally offended peoplles who want to see " peoples pay " for having said X and Y offensive or missplaced things ... i dont get the satisfaction you get out of it ... ignoring it or laughing at it is the best and only real options ... these crusade or vendetta trying to get peoplels punish or even fired from their jobs as to stop .. this trend as to stop it as blow out of proportion ...

    The only real and meaningfull , behavior that cannot be accepted is Cheating , Exploiting , and real life threats ... beside that its all benign and meaningless things that i ignore

  • @galactic-geek
    Sure, in a hypothetical scenario. However, that won't translate to reality in a reliable way. Not only do you need perfect aim with your CC, but it assumes alot on the other crew. As well as assumes that the other ship is positioned so poorly that they couldn't even counter attack with their own cannon-fire. Also assumes that they don't keep full supplies on them in the case of a barrel ball. In addition it assumes you have a myriad of duplicates of particular randomly found Curse Cannon-balls. As well as assumes the other team isn't boarding you in the process. A lot of things need to go right.

    However, if we are talking hypothetical, then sure, anyone can sink with a well placed CCB barrage.

  • @nabberwar said in putting the foot down on toxic behavior within SOT:

    However, if we are talking hypothetical, then sure, anyone can sink with a well placed CCB barrage.

    If you're using them in a barrage, then you're already doing it wrong and are wasting CCBs...

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