PvE: Seperate servers, characters, loot, and progression

  • SpazTheMax
    Marauder

    Hi everyone. I realize there is another thread currently active about PvE servers, but I want to make one specifically about this one possible solution that I think addresses all the concerns people have with PvE servers.

    I would propose PvE servers as an entirely separate game mode, with separate progression. Characters made, loot earned, progression achieved in PvE would never be able to transfer over to a PvPvE world. Seems simple enough, right?

    Now I know this is a topic that's been debated since the game came out, so I'd like to address some of the more common arguments against PvE servers.

    "It's a pirate game!/It's called Sea of THIEVES!"

    These are really shallow arguments and don't have really have a basis in gameplay, but here it is: PvPvE is the definitive Sea of Thieves experience. I won't argue against that. But not everyone wants exactly that experience, and Sea of Thieves has great potential to serve another audience. Hell, maybe the PvE mode could be called "Sea of Friends" just to clear things up.

    "You're dividing the community! It'll grow smaller!"

    There is already a division in the community. Loads of people hate PvP already and whine about it endlessly. PvE servers would not only give these people a way to play the game that they want and reduce online whining, but I believe they would also increase the amount of people playing the game. People who tried the game and left because they wanted a PvE experience would come back to the game. A new audience would be reached. Not only that, but even if people leave the PvPvE game to play PvE exclusively, your PvPvE game isn't going to feel it. There is only a maximum of 6 ships in a game at any given time. If Sea of Thieves was so unpopular that not even 6 crews wanted to play, Microsoft would have already shut down the servers.

    "All the people who just want to grind wouldn't play PvPvE!"

    You're almost correct. People who ONLY want to grind wouldn't play PvPvE. That's the point. If they ever wanted a chance at PvP or progression in a PvPvE server, they could simply grind on a PvPvE server. I'd bet most of the people who play the game now would still play on a PvPvE server.

    "People who want PvE just need to get good at PvP"

    People making this argument probably are the same people who would stay on the PvPvE servers, because they don't understand what the PvE players want. Getting good doesn't matter because we simply don't like PvP. Some people want a different experience from Sea of Thieves, one that would be easily provided by a PvE server. Not everyone enjoys scanning the horizon every 5 minutes while they're solo slooping. Some people stress out more easily than others and just want to relax without worrying about some blur on the horizon.

    "The experience of Sea of Thieves requires that mystery of friend or foe! The freedom in the game is what creates the stories people share."

    I agree that the PvPvE experience of Sea of Thieves is very unique and special. I wouldn't want to tarnish that. However, I don't think giving people an option to play a different experience that they can't currently get will diminish the existing experience people can find. I think PvPvE will always be the definitive Sea of Thieves experience, but if no one wanted PvE you wouldn't still be hearing about it almost a year after launch.

    "Pirate Legend will be meaningless now!"

    With the specific system I explained at the top, this wouldn't be the case. This would be a valid argument if someone could grind to PL on a PvE server, then switch to PvPvE later with their loot and progression. I don't want that. Pirate Legends on PvE servers wouldn't affect the achievements of the Pirate Legends on PvPvE.

    "The game would be boring if you could just grind without worry of losing your loot."

    This might have been the case at launch. However, with the combination of Skeleton Ships, more common Krakens, and Megalodons, that really isn't the case anymore. PvE servers would still have plenty of chances for players to lose their loot.

    "People who want a Sea of Friends shouldn't play Sea of Thieves"

    This would be a valid argument if a "Sea of Friends" type game already existed. I've looked, believe me. If you can show me a game with the same sailing mechanics, first person perspective, shared world, variety of quests and events on the seas, all together in a high-value production with excellent art design and great music, please show me. I'll be on my way. Currently, I haven't found such a game and the one closest to existing is Sea of Thieves without PvP.

    If there are any other arguments on why PvE servers should never exist, please share them. I would truly love if someone could actually convince me and other people who want PvE servers that they shouldn't exist, but it hasn't happened yet.

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  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    I don't like the idea of having the choice between PvP and PvE servers. As a mainly solo slooper I would have to play on the PvE server for these reasons:

    1. Everything would be faster there multiplied by the full server alliances
    2. Only the pvp premade groups would stay on Pvp servers making the game hell for solo players
    3. I hate stress - if you give me the safe no-stress option I will have to use it due to anxiety
    4. The safe world would demotivate me from using the open crews even more as the main advantage is better security
    5. The game would be less entertaining because the interactions would get less diverse
    6. I would feel like I do not deserve the rewards at all due to playing on the PvE server
    7. The devs would not be able to keep up with the updates to entertain me so I would have to find a different game and that would most likely mean I would stop playing altogether

    Giving players the choice is going to force many of them to play on the PvE servers.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    "It's a pirate game!/It's called Sea of THIEVES!"
    These are really shallow arguments and don't have really have a basis in gameplay...

    I'm not seeing this being shallow whatsoever. If I am playing Assassins Creed I should expect, you know, actual assassinations. If I am play Minecraft, I expect to mine and craft stuff. Nothing shallow about this statement. You bought a game that has a core aspect of theft. Theft is too be expected. The other core aspect is unknown encouters, and ya'll want to remove that too. Since now you would be in a server where no PvP happens, all encounters will be known (Friendly).

  • SpazTheMax
    Marauder

    @archaell said in PvE: Seperate servers, characters, loot, and progression:

    I don't like the idea of having the choice between PvP and PvE servers. As a mainly solo slooper I would have to play on the PvE server for these reasons:

    1. Everything would be faster there multiplied by the full server alliances
    2. Only the pvp premade groups would stay on Pvp servers making the game hell for solo players
    3. I hate stress - if you give me the safe no-stress option I will have to use it due to anxiety
    4. The safe world would demotivate me from using the open crews even more as the main advantage is better security
    5. The game would be less entertaining because the interactions would get less diverse
    6. I would feel like I do not deserve the rewards at all due to playing on the PvE server
    7. The devs would not be able to keep up with the updates to entertain me so I would have to find a different game and that would most likely mean I would stop playing altogether

    Giving players the choice is going to force many of them to play on the PvE servers.

    1. Everything would be faster, but that's why I believe PvE progression should be separate from PvPvE.

    2. This is a possibility, but if everyone only PvP'd on PvPvE servers then there would be no loot to get. The game is designed to be pretty sparsely populated, so Im not quite willing to take this possibility of solo hell as fact without some kind of testing.

    3. It's true, PvE would accomodate solo play more effectively than open crews. But I believe that is a feature, not a flaw.

    4. This applies only if you enjoy the possibility of hostile interactions. Many do not.

    Points 3, 6, and 7 seem to be contradictory. You would feel forced to play PvE, even though PvPvE is the mode that provides you with a sense of accomplishment? Without PvP there wouldnt be enough content to keep you interested, but you would be compelled to avoid it due to anxiety?

    I empathize with your point of anxiety. Frankly Im impressed that you would play this game if you had that problem. It's the same one that makes me want PvE servers so badly.

    But if you desire the PvPvE experience, shouldn't you be able to get yourself to make that choice for yourself rather than limit the choices of everyone else?

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    I'm insecure. Have I already indicated my rejection in this PvE call? That seems important. So far, every PvE post has found more rejections than endorsements. Quite rightly, the reasons, including mine, can be found in the forum search. Otherwise I must repeat myself all the time.

    So, perhaps once too much, but for safety's sake: No to PvE. You bought PvEvP, deal with it.

  • SpazTheMax
    Marauder

    @goedecke-michel

    Thing is, I didnt buy the game. It was a gift, and I see potential for a type of experience that doesn't yet exist.

    And in general, PvE faces rejection because the only people who are here to support it are those who play the game even though they have to put up with aspects they don't like. Most people who want PvE are absent because they are not playing the game anymore.

    I don't understand the vitriloic response to the concept of free choice, and your suggestion for me and others to comb the forums for your relevant arguments is not forthcoming or convincing.

  • SpazTheMax
    Marauder

    @nabberwar

    I agree that thieves and stealing is a key part of the definitive Sea of Thieves experience. But no game on the market comes anywhere close to providing the experience that Sea of Thieves could in a PvE environment.

    As I stated in the OP, if there was an alternative, I wouldnt be here.

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    @SpazTheMax

    There is the sense of accomplishment and there is the sense of frustration when you choose more painful option to do the things. I don't think many people like to do things the hard way when they can get the same rewards for the less effort option.

    Similar for the crews. There is the advantage in numbers but people are generally annoying and it's exhausting to deal with them. When you cut off the risks of pvp the "reward" of being in the bigger crews gets decreased which makes it less likely for players like me to participate in them.

    When everyone has to do the difficult option it's better than when you have the choice, because choosing the more difficult one feels like self-torture.

  • Straptt

    @spazthemax No

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    The biggest reason that PvE servers are the least likely to happen is due to the number of core gameplay components that would need to be modified in order to stamp out any possibility of griefing.

    Even if you can't shoot or stab another pirate, you can still do any number of the following things:

    1. Take their treasure.
    2. Take supplies out of their ship
    3. Control their ship, including ramming it into rocks to sink it
    4. Ram your ship into their ship
    5. Use exploding barrels
    6. Train skeletons or other mobs on top of them
    7. Follow them around and pick up loot before they can
    8. Physically block them in enclosed spaces

    This touches on nearly every aspect of how you can currently interact with the world, so they would need to change all of this to prevent people from going into PvE servers and messing with players in what is currently a totally legal way but is made worse when you no longer have the ability to kill that player. They would need to spend a large amount of development time doing this, or likely deal with a larger number of player reports from these servers.

    Any new features added to the game would need to undergo the same treatment, and it is possible that some features may not even be compatible with a PvE mode and will be excluded completely.

    I'd rather they not waste time on this and continue developing new content for the game.

  • SpazTheMax
    Marauder

    @d3adst1ck

    I really appreciate your response. It's really refreshing after the torrents of aggressive opinions that came before. There are some logical points in there that I hadn't previously considered.

    Of course being who I am Im still going to wish for a PvE mode, or a different game entirely to scratch that itch. But you have at least helped me understand that it would be a considerable undertaking to make it happen, and honestly that puts me at better ease with accepting the game as it is. I hope others might feel the same.

    Thanks again.

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @spazthemax disse em PvE: Seperate servers, characters, loot, and progression:

    I would propose PvE servers as an entirely separate game mode, with separate progression. Characters made, loot earned, progression achieved in PvE would never be able to transfer over to a PvPvE world. Seems simple enough, right?

    I do not think the idea is a bad idea, but I do not think it would work. It's a pirate game, it does not make sense to remove the pirates.

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