Realism of Mechanics

  • Hopefully this is the best place to put this: it's more of a kind of question that has feedback-y ramifications depending on the answer — and I don't know if I'll get it here, but that's ok.

    The sailing in this game is so intuitive and suggestive of actual sailing that I'd play the game just to explore around the islands, but playing with my brother — who is much more of a real sailor — I wondered how far that realism goes. I wonder that because if certain mechanics weren't in the game, it would add an incredible amount of depth if they could be added. These really fall into two main points:

    Weight & Buoyancy — Most things in any ship won't add much to the ship's weight, but taking on water sure would! Ships tend to behave more sluggishly the more water is on board, and if a holed ship became more sluggish in the water as it filled then strategies could be significantly different. Likewise, I know the different ships have different accelerations, top speeds etc. but does that map across ship size?

    Holing vs. De-Rigging — Now this topic I am sure is a performance issue. But I bring it up anyway because targeting rigging and demasting a ship — well, there's nothing that speaks more to naval combat than that. You can kind of do it with the cursed cannonballs, but they wear off in short time. The prospect of demasting brings up a whole crazy set of contingent changes to gameplay including but not limited to clearing wreckage, coming up with a way to move if you're completely demasted, repairing said mast etc. etc. I totally get how practicalities that keep the game snappy and playable prevent this, but oh how sweet to hear that snapping sound and watch the sails drop! It would also allow for a new set of strategies against skeleton ships, and towing a hulk with a rowboat would seriously be fun in my mind!

    So there's the two main ones. My ultimate point is that the more real-world physics can be represented in game the more strategic possibilities there are. Like I said, I get that practicalities being what they are these are probably not possible, but I thought mention them all the same.

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  • @garbhchu said in Realism of Mechanics:

    Weight & Buoyancy — Most things in any ship won't add much to the ship's weight, but taking on water sure would! Ships tend to behave more sluggishly the more water is on board, and if a holed ship became more sluggish in the water as it filled then strategies could be significantly different.

    I have always thought that the addition of weight to a vessel such as :

    • treasure on board ( there's gold in those chests, it adds weight )
    • number of players on board

    Should effect the speed.

    This combined with any damage... should on a sliding scale vary the max speed available.

    A nice visual touch would be... if the vessel is ladened with treasure, it should rest lower in the water.

  • So I have thought similar with regards to being 'weighed down' by loot, but more so that you have a visible indication that another ship is laden ;)
    Also with the 'de-rigging' I think that the cursed cannon balls kind of take on the effect of chain or grape shot in that sense (they furl the sails/drop the anchor etc)

  • Good points both. Yeah, the cursed cannonballs serve similar purposes, @Dooby. It's just that they wear off rather than being repaired, and I love the repair facet of the game. Adding in real-world mechanics is definitely a rabbit-hole, and the game is excellent as-is. I mean, imagine if you had proper chain shot that wouldn't cause leaks in the hull but would damage rigging. Imagine if you could target the rudder which could only be repaired from the water. Imagine if you could get fouled in rigging lines — well, actually that kind of does happen.

    I was on a brig a couple days ago and we jammed up against a skeletal galleon. My shipmates were repairing the hull and trying to shoot from our deck, but I jumped to their ladder and fought several of the skeletons toe to toe before they freed the ship and I had to jump back ... but I digress.

    I don't know enough about coding to be able to guess how they manage the ship movement, but I've seen a few moments when the buoyancy seemed to go sideways. Last night my ship seemed to capsize for no reason before the comp snapped it back to rights. This makes me think that the bouyancy is not at all tied to weight but cleverly imitated in how the ships are related to the ocean. It's also why I think adding weighted effects would probably cause performance issues.

    Be that all as it may, I don't think treasure should add weight in any case. Seeing the images of ships loaded rail to rail with cargo — I'd hate to see that rendered impossible. Shipping water as a ship courts sinking is another matter, and it makes me wonder other related things.

    For example, I've noticed that lower holes gush water while higher holes only leak sporadically. Is that linked to the apparent waterline meaning ballast balls cause ships to take on water faster?

  • @garbhchu

    The waves and outside water level do indeed matter when a ship is sinking. That is why in a storm you can see a dry galleon's second deck holes leak water. This is why ships rammed onto an island will not leak water (allowing for glitches at outposts where ships will be unsinkable - unfair but not unrealistic). As a ship fills, depending on the amount of water it will sink. If you are used to seeing a ship out a open sea, the difference can be hard to see given the waves, but near an island it is quite easy to see. Try it on a galleon: Go into a single player session on a galleon (or other ship, but there it's easiest to see). Scuttle the ship, and watch as, with the rising of the water, the hull lowers down until both levels reach the deck (which is the reason for that effect of the waves washing over the deck as a ship sinks).

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