Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!

@skulliah That is a very good reference to keep when discussing this, thanks. I am just worried that they did not see any impact that the EoR was having before the reload fix. Resulting in them having a completely different view on the gun balance than people who play and use the guns.

@crafek The EoR is in a good spot now. If they added a headshot mult then we could talk about a small body shot nerf. The only change it really needs is the reduced hipfire accuracy maybe. if they reduce the hip-fire accuracy on the EoR and pistol both(less so on the pistol) it would balance them out pretty well. The pistol needs the same change to it's reload that EoR got. The only gun in the game that has negative hipfire accuracy is the only one that shouldn't(the blunderbuss). Your changes listed don't address the problem in a healthy way, and lets be honest the only problem weapon is the cutlass.

@betsill what be wrong with the cutlass? I have been away awhile so something can come up while I’ve been gone.

@weststormborn It's the same it's always been. Broken. lol The slow from swinging and blocking is bugged and can be negated by doing them at the same time, combining blocking with lunge lets you jump and launch yourself across a ship, combine that with water(that doesn't have friction) and you become a human torpedo that can let you board ships from ridiculous distances(even from behind when you are chasing), hitting an enemy slows them to the point of almost being rooted, it reduces their jump height by more than half, AND reduces their accuracy by a very very large amount(to the point that it's almost impossible to hit the sword user), etc. It kills people not by being a good weapon, but by being a broken mess that makes the person hit almost completely helpless and without options.

I think people are overestimating the power of the EoR, especially hipfiring, its really not that accurate unless your hugging someone and then it really doesn't matter.

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

I think people are overestimating the power of the EoR, especially hipfiring, its really not that accurate unless your hugging someone and then it really doesn't matter.

Hmm maybe if a PC player is using it I don't think people are overestimating it. I've won a ton of fights hip firing the EoR. I've probably killed more by hip-firing than aiming to be honest and i don't use tape or anything else to help me aim. since there are not head shot mults it's not really possible to balance these guns. No headshot mult means that the unwieldiness of the EoR doesn't really matter. All you have to do is hit them anywhere.

@betsill said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

I think people are overestimating the power of the EoR, especially hipfiring, its really not that accurate unless your hugging someone and then it really doesn't matter.

Hmm maybe if a PC player is using it I don't think people are overestimating it. I've won a ton of fights hip firing the EoR. I've probably killed more by hip-firing than aiming to be honest and i don't use tape or anything else to help me aim. since there are not head shot mults it's not really possible to balance these guns. No headshot mult means that the unwieldiness of the EoR doesn't really matter. All you have to do is hit them anywhere.

So have I, I've won more fights aiming because the reliability is spotty and it tends to be easy to counter with a shotgun when you have to get close for reliability purposes.

@betsill ok physics wise, frictionless is incorrect. If it was frictionless I would maintain the same acceleration and actually be able to boost myself to every island with a sword lunge and only take a few minutes to get to the farthest distance between islands. Sword lunge water trick is accepted in game. Shooting the person usually stops their slashes giving a second to escape. Missing a sword lunge has dire consequences. You are literally rooted for 2 secs because you failed a sword lunge. More rooted than being slashed by the cutlass.

@weststormborn Yeah, I misspoke it's not friction-less. The sword was designed to lunge a short distance along the ground and be caught be the terrain at the end of the animation. Since it wasn't inherently coded with a deceleration your character will continue forward until something acts against it(most games never see this bug because the game devs should know better now days). Water has it's own deceleration physics for the purpose of cannon launches and such(which some needs work IMO). I have heard people say that Rare has accepted it as a mechanic, but they really shouldn't. The momentum bug is a sign of lazy/bad coding and shouldn't be accepted by any self respecting game designers. The momentum bug is also not the only problem though in regards to sword launching. The sword is bugged to ignore it's limitations(slow when using, and not able to jump) when a player blocks before using a sword attack. The sword root only happens when you don't hit anything. If you hit a player you will suffer no penalties(this is dumb in it's own right), but if you hit anything at all(rocks parts of the ship, etc.) you will only be unable to run. you can still do literally anything else, which includes sword hopping. It is almost always the case that you will hit something in a fight. Boats are very cramped and it's almost impossible not to hit something unless you are trying not too. This isn't fun either way. No one should be rooted. Not the user and not the person being attack, it is not fun to just sit there helpless. It's the most unfun melee combat i've seen in a game. It can be SO much better.

@betsill said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@crafek The EoR is in a good spot now. [...]

Hell, no. The good spot being is that they fixed the reloading, I can accept that. But I cannot accept how EoR devalues other guns for being the way it currently is. EoR is more literally in a good spot, but compared to the other guns, it is in a spot too good.
The real fundamental here is the identity as a gun that the EoR possesses, and it now replaces the pistol and somewhat the blunderbuss.

To force, or influence players to use EoR the way it is meant would give it that identity. And is why a wild hip fire accuracy is suggested, to force players to scope in and tunnel vision a bit. Which, for its reward, can make itself different from the pistol.

And that is the thing, how the sniper is now getting me to use it more than the other guns in most cases is what puts the EoR in a spot too good. And its not a preference that I say that, I prefer the pistol, but im now actively handicapping myself for that which should be unintended when looking at these guns as selections.

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

I think people are overestimating the power of the EoR, especially hipfiring, its really not that accurate unless your hugging someone and then it really doesn't matter.

The accuracy of the gun is nearly perfect (if not perfect) so that is a silly statement. The only variable is the accuracy of the user. A perfect player could hit every single shot and not miss a single shot due to gun accuracy.

@crafek If you pref the pistol then just use the pistol AND the EoR... Problem solved! I agree about hipfire accuracy.

And that is the thing, how the sniper is now getting me to use it more than the other guns in most cases is what puts the EoR in a spot too good.

Let me guess you use the cutlass as one of your weapons no matter what?

@kzoo-kid

The accuracy of the gun is nearly perfect (if not perfect) so that is a silly statement.

It actually isn't anymore. Idk when it was changed, but it no longer shoots where you are aiming when hip firing. The way they did it is hilariously bad though.
The pistol and the EoR have the exact same deviation. when I say "exact", I mean it. There are 4 potential places that the bullet can land, and it goes in order. The fifth shot lands where the first shot did.

@kzoo-kid said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

I think people are overestimating the power of the EoR, especially hipfiring, its really not that accurate unless your hugging someone and then it really doesn't matter.

The accuracy of the gun is nearly perfect (if not perfect) so that is a silly statement. The only variable is the accuracy of the user. A perfect player could hit every single shot and not miss a single shot due to gun accuracy.

Its not though, you can easily miss people 3-4 paces away that are directly in front of you, even dead center there you might as well be tossing a coin. Unless your aiming... its not that accurate at range.

To balance the weapons, hip-firing the EoR should be nerfed to make it less effective. The flintlock should (obviously) reload faster than the EoR. I also believe the flintlock should let you carry 7 rounds instead of 5. These steps would better balance the weapons.

The EoR and blunderbuss should be specialty weapons that fill particular niches, while the flintlock should be the standard "go-to" weapon for most pirates in most situations. As it stands, more and more pirates are just carrying the EoR everywhere. Why wouldn't they? There's even less incentive to carry a flintlock now, and that strikes me as wrong. I'd love to see some rebalancing.

@betsill said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@kzoo-kid

The accuracy of the gun is nearly perfect (if not perfect) so that is a silly statement.

It actually isn't anymore. Idk when it was changed, but it no longer shoots where you are aiming when hip firing. The way they did it is hilariously bad though.
The pistol and the EoR have the exact same deviation. when I say "exact", I mean it. There are 4 potential places that the bullet can land, and it goes in order. The fifth shot lands where the first shot did.

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@kzoo-kid said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

I think people are overestimating the power of the EoR, especially hipfiring, its really not that accurate unless your hugging someone and then it really doesn't matter.

The accuracy of the gun is nearly perfect (if not perfect) so that is a silly statement. The only variable is the accuracy of the user. A perfect player could hit every single shot and not miss a single shot due to gun accuracy.

Its not though, you can easily miss people 3-4 paces away that are directly in front of you, even dead center there you might as well be tossing a coin. Unless your aiming... its not that accurate at range.

My apologies then, I stand corrected. I haven't played in a while admittedly, but that's interesting. I think something like that needed to happen for balance but that's just my opinion. I used EoR and sword primarily.

@kzoo-kid Totally understandable that you didn't know(I didn't either!) because it used to be perfectly accurate. Rare sucks at patch notes, so I have no idea when they snuck this change in.

I completely disagree

@kzoo-kid said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@betsill said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@kzoo-kid

The accuracy of the gun is nearly perfect (if not perfect) so that is a silly statement.

It actually isn't anymore. Idk when it was changed, but it no longer shoots where you are aiming when hip firing. The way they did it is hilariously bad though.
The pistol and the EoR have the exact same deviation. when I say "exact", I mean it. There are 4 potential places that the bullet can land, and it goes in order. The fifth shot lands where the first shot did.

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@kzoo-kid said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

I think people are overestimating the power of the EoR, especially hipfiring, its really not that accurate unless your hugging someone and then it really doesn't matter.

The accuracy of the gun is nearly perfect (if not perfect) so that is a silly statement. The only variable is the accuracy of the user. A perfect player could hit every single shot and not miss a single shot due to gun accuracy.

Its not though, you can easily miss people 3-4 paces away that are directly in front of you, even dead center there you might as well be tossing a coin. Unless your aiming... its not that accurate at range.

My apologies then, I stand corrected. I haven't played in a while admittedly, but that's interesting. I think something like that needed to happen for balance but that's just my opinion. I used EoR and sword primarily.

It's always been like this, people will use it like a shotgun and get close and that does work but it requires 1 shot + sword swing while a shotgun can do it all in 1 shot. I was losing a lot of fights either because I was off center slightly and missed, or I had to get too close and was met with a shotgun. If you aim quickly its always pointing right where you were pointing so you can aim/shoot switch to your side arm and finish them off. Aiming is significantly more reliable.. especially against better opponents.

If there was a balance that could put in, maybe for .2 additional seconds to aim, maybe the sights have to settle or something, and maybe slighly less accuracy hipfiring will reduce the usefulness in cqc just a tad. Or less accuracy overall when moving with the sniper. It is a bit strong.

Or buf the shotgun.. the shotgun is no longer good enough compared to the EoR because your guaranteed 90% damage 2-3 paces away vs a fairly variable rate with shotgun.

But yah if your playing bad players you can dance around them. The "advantage" doesn't nearly as much as their inability to stop you.

this might get locked guys abide to the forum rules

@savagetwinky

If there was a balance that could put in, maybe for .2 additional seconds to aim, maybe the sights have to settle or something, and maybe slighly less accuracy hipfiring will reduce the usefulness in cqc just a tad. Or less accuracy overall when moving with the sniper. It is a bit strong.

There already is an aim delay for both the EoR and pistol(shotgun too i think, but i didn't check). There is also a slight accuracy reduction for EoR and pistol as well. err it's not really an accuracy reduction as it is a shot pattern around where your aim. You can still theoretically be 100% accurate if you know the shot patter(it's the exact same for both pistol and EoR). The patter lasts over 50 rounds though(i stopped counting), but it resets when you get a fresh gun.

Or buf the shotgun.. the shotgun is no longer good enough compared to the EoR because your guaranteed 90% damage 2-3 paces away vs a fairly variable rate with shotgun.

This^ I thought it was pretty ridiculous they nerfed the blunderbuss. Especially that they nerfed the dmg instead of something like the reload(I'm sure they didn't do this because it would take actual work to increase the reload animation lol). The shotgun was good in a game where most combat is super close quarters on a ship?

Now the shotgun is so unreliable. You have to stick it right in someones face to kill them. If you don't, they hit you with a sword and kill you with Rares horrible weapon design lol Of course people are gonna use the EoR compared to that.

@genuine-heather said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

To balance the weapons, hip-firing the EoR should be nerfed to make it less effective. The flintlock should (obviously) reload faster than the EoR. I also believe the flintlock should let you carry 7 rounds instead of 5. These steps would better balance the weapons.

The EoR and blunderbuss should be specialty weapons that fill particular niches, while the flintlock should be the standard "go-to" weapon for most pirates in most situations. As it stands, more and more pirates are just carrying the EoR everywhere. Why wouldn't they? There's even less incentive to carry a flintlock now, and that strikes me as wrong. I'd love to see some rebalancing.

Why do you think the flintlock should be the standard? It should be a preference thing more than anything else in my opinion.

There bunch of people that use the flintlock, the only weapon I believe is under represented currently is the blunderbuss.

@betsill Alot of games do that actually I recall in CS if you knew the spray pattern you could compensate and have a rediculously small grouping with the AK.

@cotu42 Blunder is very under represented mostly because its suicide to use it in any PVE due to at least one barrel skele per random spawn.

@cotu42 said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

Why do you think the flintlock should be the standard?

Haven't you ever seen a pirate movie? Pirates armed with cutlasses and flintlocks are the standards tropes found in all pirate lore, both fictional and historical. If you want a more practical reason, it's simple. The flintlock is relatively easy to carry, quick on the draw and easier to reload than a musket or blunderbuss.

The Eye of Reach is the fictional equivalent of the musket, which is a ranged weapon. It's not intended to be a close-quarters weapon. The blunderbuss is the opposite, ideally suited for close-range combat but wildly inaccurate at greater distance.

The blunderbuss seems about right. I think the flintlock should reload a hair faster and carry 7 rounds instead of 5. The Eye of Reach should be far less effective at close range. These are fairly minor tweaks that I believe would help balance the three weapons and put the flintlock back in its rightful place, tucked in the belts of pirates everywhere. :)

It should be a preference thing more than anything else in my opinion.

I absolutely agree, I just think they need some tweaking to make the flintlock more attractive. We have three weapons for a reason. I believe the intention isn't to always use one weapon, but to select the best weapon to fit the situation. Opinions will vary, of course, and personal preference rules. If a pirate wants to always use the same weapon, they have that choice.

@genuine-heather I think when we fire underwater we pretty much negate any comparison to other guns but that just might be me.

I don't know that the answer is upgrading the flintlock simply because it seems to already be the go to for some pirates say far more then the blunderbuss, which I never see another pirate carry ever anymore. Especially for something that can be fired at far greater distances then it should be effective at, and still be relatively well aimed. I think if we're going for the type of balance your talking about which I agree should be how its done (blunder for close, pistol as the all around and EoR when you really need that distance. But I think the blunderbuss needs some love a little more than the pistol.

@muzackmann said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@genuine-heather I think when we fire underwater we pretty much negate any comparison to other guns but that just might be me.

I don't know that the answer is upgrading the flintlock simply because it seems to already be the go to for some pirates say far more then the blunderbuss, which I never see another pirate carry ever anymore. Especially for something that can be fired at far greater distances then it should be effective at, and still be relatively well aimed. I think if we're going for the type of balance your talking about which I agree should be how its done (blunder for close, pistol as the all around and EoR when you really need that distance. But I think the blunderbuss needs some love a little more than the pistol.

the problem with the blunderbuss is keg skeletons have made it completely useless in PvE and flint/EoR are far more reliable damage.

@savagetwinky said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@muzackmann said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@genuine-heather I think when we fire underwater we pretty much negate any comparison to other guns but that just might be me.

I don't know that the answer is upgrading the flintlock simply because it seems to already be the go to for some pirates say far more then the blunderbuss, which I never see another pirate carry ever anymore. Especially for something that can be fired at far greater distances then it should be effective at, and still be relatively well aimed. I think if we're going for the type of balance your talking about which I agree should be how its done (blunder for close, pistol as the all around and EoR when you really need that distance. But I think the blunderbuss needs some love a little more than the pistol.

the problem with the blunderbuss is keg skeletons have made it completely useless in PvE and flint/EoR are far more reliable damage.

That’s true, but the blunderbuss’s niche is close quarter PvP combat, especially on ships. It’s hard to look at one-shot kills and say it’s underpowered. In my opinion the blunderbuss is functioning just as it should. I’m not sure what there is to improve.