Death Penalty

  • spyderhat
    Marauder

    Here’s an interesting idea for making pvp worth something and actually having real death consequences. Imagine that if you get killed by a player you lose every equipment you had on you. Whatever you were wearing and whatever weapons you had equipped are gone for good. And are available for pickup by other players. Eventually it would de spawn but just imagine how cool that would be! The winner would always have some loot to look forward to in the form of cosmetics and the loser would always dread dying and have to buy new gear. Suddenly everything matters!

    If you run out of money you would have no weapons and would have to scour the world for quests or items to sell or whatever. Make everything cost money - new ship costs money- if you have no more money you need to join a new crew and earn some. No free lunch. I love this idea! If you want to show off hats or jackets or whatever just know that if you get killed you drop it all and it becomes available for others to pick up. If no one picks it up it just sinks and disappears. This way cosmetics would have an awesome value in my opinion. I don’t know all the specifics like what happens to sails and liveries and what not but generally to make everything perishable and have to be re purchased sounds amazing to me. Extends the game loop by a whole hell of a lot. What do you guys think?

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  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @spyderhat there is a thread here already if you wanted to chip in https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/74534/what-is-the-point-of-the-game-if-there-is-no-death-penalty

  • LucianSanchez82
    Legend
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @spyderhat More depth to combat/dying is something a lot of folks around here would like. Though I feel you're idea goes a little too extreme for what Rare aim to achieve with the game - that everyone has the same tools at their disposal, always.

    The risk/reward of this game comes from finding loot out in the world, then having to return it to an outpost. If you manage that, you're golden. Which personally I think is risk enough for this style of game.

    If I had to keep rebuying my favourite outfit each time I died (more often than I'd like to admit) then I'd simply stop buying any outfits because I wouldn't want to risk losing them again and again.

  • Uzmi007
    Ship Mate

    Firstly its been months I played this empty (another grindy) game, but I do visit forums often in hopes of getting some good news lol and as much as I loved pvp in this game for whatever hours I played it, I don't think it's a good idea to drop loot and a money system. Sadly this isn't a pvp focused game, there are a lot of players who love pve. And you posting an idea to convert this game into Facepunch's rust is ridiculous. Try rust vanilla my friend.

  • spyderhat
    Marauder

    @luciansanchez82 my experience so far has been that this world does not have enough risk. I’ve spent days upon days sailing alone and collecting loot and turning it in without fanfare. If I see a ship I can easily run and avoid. The only real threat is each sailor’s own carelessness. I think finding and turning in loot cannot be this games only draw. It has to evolve. Or at least I want it to evolve lol losing your gear is only cosmetic. It doesn’t change the balance. It only changes/enhances gameplay. If you lose your gear you join another crew who can give you gear for example or give you money for a new ship. So many possibilities and will make the game way more social. I think I’m my 6 months playing I can remember most of my pvp deaths - meaning it’s not a common occurrence. For those who always dive into battles maybe it’s common but many of us avoid combat and therefore would not be overwhelmed by this new state of affairs. I for one would welcome it with open arms.

  • spyderhat
    Marauder

    @uzmi007 I agree it’s not pvp focused. Not saying it is. If you don’t want Ivo you can usually avoid it. If you can’t, then there’s a little extra sting to losing. I want that sting personally. I want to be afraid of other ships even when I don’t have loot aboard. That’s the issue here - the battles that occur with nothing at stake. One ship sinks another - loser respawns and continues the loop. Where’s the real loss? Where’s the real win? Where the risk and sequences. That’s what I’d love to see personally.

  • spyderhat
    Marauder

    @triheadedmonkey yes I was reading that and wanted to start a new topic more specific to losing your equipped gear. Not just respawn mechanics or a death tax. I felt a comment on that thread would get lost. =)

  • Sargent Sully
    Captain
    Insider

    Personally I think that is a bad idea. It would lead to many controversies involving Pre-order items, event items, etc. On top of that, it would cause more trouble than good.

    The only way I could see something along those lines being added would be in the form of the resources one is holding, so killing a player would instead allow you to grab any cannonballs/bananas/wood they have on them.

  • stonewall93
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    Yeah as much as I'd to lose my ferryman outfit that I got for buying the SoT controller, I'd rather not. and considering how expensive clothes are this would be chaos and would discourage people from even buying cosmetics, making a sizeable aspect of the game worthless

  • entspeak
    Captain
    Insider

    @spyderhat When Rare was researching the tone of this game, they looked at Rust and DayZ and they intentionally developed a less grueling system. I think it works. They did want a death tax - pay the Ferryman, but players rejected the idea pretty forcefully. So, I highly doubt they would implement something like what you suggest.

  • spyderhat
    Marauder

    @bran-the-ent i definitely recall that. I personally don’t like pay the ferryman b/c I think that’s too trivial. What I’m looking for is for much more skin in the game so to speak. I enjoy state of decay perma death and recently I’ve been playing Ghost Recon wildlands with Ghost mode - where you lose all progress if you die. It’s just a while new experience. I definitely understand that it might be too much for some. I never was too crazy about cosmetics in this game which is why I would be ok with having them become things that can be lost. I guess I’m looking for something more than just some casual sailing around collecting loot in a colorful world lol I’ve enjoyed that for 6 months now I’d love to experience more. Love this game and want to see it grow and evolve.

  • QuietRobot
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    Think how frustrating it is right now to die for free ... do not imagine what it can be if you are penalized.

  • entspeak
    Captain
    Insider

    @spyderhat As I said, they looked at games that do as you suggest and rejected the notion of perma death. I play DayZ - one of the games they researched for this one, and also enjoy the challenge of perma death, but they just don't want that for this game. The idea is that physical rewards could be stolen and that was the extent of the loss - which people still complain about. Now, they've done a bit of an end around that with doobloons which can't be stolen - perhaps as one of the concessions for casual players. But, at the end of the day, you will never see perma death in this game. Just not gonna happen.

    Given the exclusivity of some cosmetic items, you'd have a revolt if they made it such that they could be stolen.

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @spyderhat Do minecraft, this is what you want. Not my taste of pirate life in SoT.

  • cG I SiMpLe

    Please do not add any penalty for death please. We already have an unfair PC vs XB and to further complicate that matter is exploding skeletons and overactive volcanoes to contend with. A death penalty is a bad idea. I just wanted my $0.02 heard on this matter.

  • Rayzback
    Insider

    To ride the Ferry of the dammed, I think you should pay a toll. Nothing big, but a little gold. Maybe a fee structure based on overall rank?

    I would like to see that fee increase the longer you stay there to stop the camping problem we have on the ferry. Every 5 minutes or so, it increases

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @rayzback should be the other way. The quicker you want to leave, the higher the toll you have to pay. The longer you wait, the cheaper it is.

  • Sargent Sully
    Captain
    Insider

    @rayzback You already pay in your time aboard the ferry. Plus the last time a "death toll" was suggested it was shot down.

    Also what is wrong with people sitting on the Ferry? I've had plenty of parties and crew meet ups there.

  • ClosingHare208
    Marauder
    Insider

    @spyderhat no this is fortnight but with pirates then and I won't want to play the game then

  • Rayzback
    Insider

    @sargent-sully

    Some Legends (and others)? throw down an Athena.... then camp on the Ferry with their character on permanent spin (rubber band around the sticks) and just collect on others hard work. No way to get rid of them. No way they time out.

  • Sargent Sully
    Captain
    Insider

    @rayzback Okay, now that I didn't know about. Actually I did once see a guy just randomly jumping on the Ferry. That explains that.

  • Madame C
    Marauder
    Insider

    It's an interesting concept but I think it would burn out quickly. Those that are no good at pvp would be resistant to this because they would always lose their gear and may be less inclined to play the game after a while. Those that are good at pvp will quickly obtain a full inventory of all items and would eventually end up just as bored as they are now. Even if they have the ability to sell those dropped items for gold at outposts, I don't think it will make a difference because PL10's don't care about money when there's nothing left to buy.

    I've given some thought to how a 'Notoriety' reputation would work, where a kill (or sunken ship) would translate into rep to level up their notoriety, and rep would be subtracted if you are killed (or have your own ship sunk). A high rep would grant the pirate access to a set of gear that's dedicated for notoriety, and others would see that you are a dangerous pirate if you wear this set. It would make the pvp'ers happy, and could be something to work on in between content releases. But ultimately, I think this would essentially serve as a K/D ratio which often breeds undesirables/griefers/and overall toxic behaviour as it does in many shooters (this is why we can't have nice things).

  • m1sterpunch
    Master
    Insider

    This isn't Sea of Dark Souls

    I like the idea of dropping supplies maybe since you can already find bananas and planks on the ground. Or even dropping one of your messages in a bottle by chance so a new bottle appears next to your "body".

    But as for dropping cosmetics from a PvP kill? Hard no.

  • Bosun Rotrr
    Master

    @spyderhat yeah, I think there needs to be some kind of stakes and consequences for dying as well. Rare, and the fans, seem averse to having players lose anything at all.

    I think the rewards of gold, dubloons, commendations and reputation would have worth, value, and mean something if they could actually be lost.

    But for some reason everyone in SoT has to win, all the time, even if they lose in the short term. But, that's what the fans want apparently.

  • RooGirl

    For me... This would definitely drive me away. I enjoy some of the social aspects of the game, but frequently also like the calm-yet-challenging solo play. If the game were to force me into that situation rather than let it be my choice, I'll end up playing something else... Path of least resistance :-/

  • Shartwork
    Marauder
    Insider

    @spyderhat A death penalty was talked about by Rare months ago. It however was simply losing some gold upon death. This idea was quickly shot down by the community so it never moved forward. I think your idea is a bit too extreme, but there could be a middle ground that would be good for the game. I do think it's kind of stupid how we can just throw ourselves at other players because if we sink who even cares? Just respawn and come back. I wouldn't like the idea of risking your cosmetics, but I'm not opposed to losing more than just the stuff you have on your ship. I'd say a gold tax would be fair, maybe make it only apply if you die in PvP. I don't know, this isn't an easy idea to fully develop which is why I'm assumed it has not been readdressed.

  • Da German420
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    i mean i like that idea,but sot isnt a survival game ;).i would be cool with just a bounty system

  • spyderhat
    Marauder

    @blg-strong-dad thanks for the reply! I don’t like a good tax, that’s just too sterile imo. And if people are rich who cares even if the 1k or 10k. I like a more organic penalty you know? That’s what I was feeling. Also, my entire point was to make the game more meaningful and that can only happen when there’s real loss at stake. And being that pvp is actually not all that common this idea is not all that extreme. As long as the devs can distinguish between the different causes of death. Only when you’re killed by a player will you be lootable lol Anyway I love the idea, I’d love to be all in and sail in truly dangerous seas. Currently most if not all of the threats are just a nuisance. I usually turn in loot on a regular basis so for me death means absolutely nothing 99% of the time. I’d like it to always mean A LOT. And again, if you prep for battle you can change to cheap clothing if you do t wanna risk. Or you can brave it, up to the player. Thanks for the feedback everyone I’m enjoying the discussion and all your ideas. Keep them coming.

  • DUCK its DUCKY
    Marauder

    Hey,
    I like where your thinking, but not the specifics.
    I think the seas are honestly already docile. If this death penalty was to come into effect, I would want to see it along the lines of greater motivation to PVP, aside from it being the most fun thing to do in the game (opinion).
    Keep churning out ideas!

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @spyderhat nope nope and nope, this would basicly mean you could never put on limited time cosmetics because of the risk of never being able to get them again

    Could pvp use some more incentive... maybe but i personally dont think so, the incentive is the possible loot they have on board, maybe some commendations would work but that would be it.

    I am not afraid of losing gold as its really easy to get ever since i became PL however losing my ashen, bonecrusher, wailing barnacle or hungering deep cosmetics is a big no no

  • spyderhat
    Marauder

    @callmebackdraft easy fix - don’t die pvp-ing lol jk good point - if it’s timed exclusive cosmetics not sure how they’ll fix that. Maybe just always have it available in your personal tailor shop so you can always buy them. Or just hope you kill someone who’s also wearing that outfit. I just hope they do something to spice up pvp death and make it worth avoiding.

  • Boldgame
    Captain
    Founder

    How much I would like to like your idea.
    But I have seen this in darkfall. There I never went out the save zones wearing my best gear. Only the easy to get gear. And with me a lot of others to, so everybody looked the same. Medio or less geared. Medio or less fun after some time....

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