Foresaken shores has missed the mark.
For those of us at level the pirate legend level - we will finish these quests in 2 days and have zero reason to log back into this game until the next expansion... and most of us are losing interest.
PLEASE bring back SOME new faction or raise the level caps or SOMETHING that will keep us coming back. Unless you add new reputation to grind, the player base will dwindle....
You did some cool things but the staying power is 0.0.
Look what they did with the Huntress figurehead. It went from being a cool, rare item, not because it required tons of grinding, but because you had to be at the right place at the right time (meaning the mixer stream or the con). Now it is 0% special. 49k gold. You get the Forsaken Ashes ship livery literally just for showing up. There's nothing to reach for, nothing particularly special to have.
I would be happy to see things that weren't even grind-based, like the Huntress figurehead when it was given out for participating in the Mixer stream, or the Ebon flintlock.
@embalmer As far as I understand it, there will be more stuff in the coming weeks so we'll have to see what else gets added. I would recommend that you post your feedback for Forsaken Shores in the mega-thread because I'm fairly certain that's the only place on the forums that the devs look for feedback.
@Owl-Hisson I don't think the Huntress was ever available for attending a stream. Just an IRL event or for purchasing something from the store within a certain time window.
@embalmer I don't think raising the athena cap is a good idea as it is just a pointless grind. I do agree with you that the game lacks replay value as it has no real end-game. I think thats what this game truely lacks. It's needs and end-game that evenly blends the PvE content with PvP otherwise all content will have short lifespan.
I don't fight back, but I'm not gonna be offering any alliances either. You wanna kill me, yer gonna have to catch me.
You can have my ship if ya want (there's never much on there anyway), but I'm a slippery little weasel, so you'll have to put the leg work in to eventually kill me.
@blam320 I've been Pirate Legend for like, a month give or take, and very little grinding involved. I played with my friends a lot and had fun rather than grinding, and that's how long it took. Hardcore gamers are not the only bored PLs out there. It's not hard to see how every single update has had zero replayability. There's zero reasons to do do anything involving the mermaids, thrones, meg, etc., and the skelly ships are not worth the effort at all. Either the loot needs to be upgraded or the waves need to be cut back.
FS has no reason I would come back after finishing the bilge rat commendations. Yes the loot is worth more, but it isn't worth enough extra to warrant the extra time and effort. I sailed all around tonight on a duo sloop, never sank the boat but it was tedious to babysit it.
@owl-hisson said in I LOVE this game but......:
@blam320 I've been Pirate Legend for like, a month give or take, and very little grinding involved. I played with my friends a lot and had fun rather than grinding, and that's how long it took. Hardcore gamers are not the only bored PLs out there. It's not hard to see how every single update has had zero replayability. There's zero reasons to do do anything involving the mermaids, thrones, meg, etc., and the skelly ships are not worth the effort at all. Either the loot needs to be upgraded or the waves need to be cut back.
FS has no reason I would come back after finishing the bilge rat commendations. Yes the loot is worth more, but it isn't worth enough extra to warrant the extra time and effort. I sailed all around tonight on a duo sloop, never sank the boat but it was tedious to babysit it.
How long is your typical session, and how often do you play? Also, did you go on voyages? How many times did you decide to just pick a direction and go that way? Or did you cheat Fort Hop? Because those contribute to my definition of "grinding". It took you six months to achieve what Rare thought would take most people far longer.
What other games do you play? Because I really want to know what your definition of replay-ability is.
@blam320 I play a mix of solo sloop, duo sloop, and brig. Never have fort hopped, just done them when they were up on the server I was on. I tend to play one game at a time, so I've been pretty much only playing SoT on the weekends.
Rare knew that they had misjudged the time to PL months ago. They have had plenty of time to catch up on whatever they had planned at the beginning. It makes me strongly suspect that... they didn't have anything planned at all.
Either way, my point was about the regular, non PL updates. None of them have any continuing place in the game. We killed the Meg and now they roam the seas, but Merrick isn't around giving us Meg quests. The mermaids and thrones are just something you catch sight of once in a blue moon. They have no significance now. They were something to do for a week, and after that the game went back to exactly as much to do as before.
@blam320 Let me get something straight. Do you think by fort hopping it's easy mode or cheating your way to Pirate Legend ?
@owl-hisson said in I LOVE this game but......:
@blam320 I play a mix of solo sloop, duo sloop, and brig. Never have fort hopped, just done them when they were up on the server I was on. I tend to play one game at a time, so I've been pretty much only playing SoT on the weekends.
Rare knew that they had misjudged the time to PL months ago. They have had plenty of time to catch up on whatever they had planned at the beginning. It makes me strongly suspect that... they didn't have anything planned at all.
Either way, my point was about the regular, non PL updates. None of them have any continuing place in the game. We killed the Meg and now they roam the seas, but Merrick isn't around giving us Meg quests. The mermaids and thrones are just something you catch sight of once in a blue moon. They have no significance now. They were something to do for a week, and after that the game went back to exactly as much to do as before.
You didn’t answer several if my questions.
And as for your accusation of having nothing for post-Legend planned, you clearly haven’t been paying close enough attention. Well before the massive roadmap overhaul, Rare’s original plans for the 3 month update was going to be post-Legend content plus microtransactions. If anything, the players also misjudged the time it would take to reach Legend, and we misjudged how may people would disregard the adventure aspect of the game and solely work towards the title.
Rare will never make content for the 1%. It's all about attracting new players. PL content will be added little at a time most likely. I would love an entire update devoted to end game PL stuff, but it'll never happen. What will happen though is the core player base will become PL saturated. If Rare doesn't address that then this games future is bleak. But that'll take time. Another year at least.
@embalmer Hello Mr Embalmer.When i read your Topic then it feels like you only played this game in order to become Pirate Legend as fast as possible . The words Grind , and new Factions to Level up in, give me the feeling that you never had much fun in this game...It seems you only come back if you are able to add a new number of Level behind a Faction...
Have you never had fun while playing, never met new people that altered the story or situations you were in? Have you never experienced a SOT session or evening as like you and yer crew were making a story that will never repeat itself even if you would try hard?
Have you never listened to the words of Mr Chapman, to name one, who told us over and over again that in SOT ,you , the player makes the story.And that no game will be the same?
If i would play ,solely ,for levelling up, grinding my way and sink everything that carry a sail with the only purpose to rob and raise in Level then would never reach Level 25. Because that playstyle is indeed the most boring experience ever. And if you can reach Pirate Legend just by doing this , while never making new Friends, never laughing tears from your cheeks then i take my hat of my head and show respect for your endurance...No, Sir , with all my respect for you , SOT is much more than that way of playing and that's why i keep coming back to the game.
i play with "old" Friends and meet new Pirates on the Sea , both deliver ,every single evening, a total new story in wich i mostly lose some tears of joy...i never had the feel of Grinding because Pirate Legend doesn't interest me as a goal i desperately need to get...It will come when it's there...No , mate , this game is meant to be a sandbox game where every player plays a part in a story that has no writer ...Coincidense ,skill or the lack off that ,decides how a story unfolds...Stories can be dull because of the personalities sometimes but like mostly in my experience , many stories become even better because of those personalities of people with all kinds of background...
Try to play for once as a free man, my Friend, forget Levelling and write that word Grinding on a piece of Paper and burn it on your furnace...Play freely, give your eyes and ears the joy it so wants, it's there for you to grab ...Talk, and goof with people , try even some Roleplaying if you have the Talent and you will see how this game opens up like you open a box o the attic of wich you never knew the content of. But amazed you for it's suprizing content...
Stop limiting your vision, or fixation for Levelling and the Grind towards it , it will only bring you boredom...
And no , i won't leave this game , i will maybe one day the Last Pirate standing...Laying in wait, trying to ambush Mr Spencer should he one day decide to pull the plug out of the SOT Servers ...i will try to jump in his neck, pull his socks over his ears and try to convince him to keep SOT running for the joy of thousends of Pirates who do understand Mr Chapman's Vision...
I’m with ya. I’d be really interested to know what the trend is in terms of players not returning or if their overall playerbase is shrinking. I haven’t played in a few weeks myself. It’s not that this update or any of the other updates are outright bad, but the grind is over and the “goof around” mentality is something I can’t really get with anymore. Maybe there is something more substantial/game changing in the future?
@cooliocam They have said they will be adding things for post athena 10/legendary content, though no release date that I was aware of. Probably not a large enough amount of the player base is there yet, it was still less than 1% that had reached legend last time i checked though that was a bit ago(and hard to tell with slightly skewed numbers).
For many I'm sure it'd be a nightmare. But for me, it's the only way to play. I just don't like PvP. Never have.
I'm not good at it and don't want to invest the time to get good at it.
"Then why play a game that features PvP so prominently?" you might ask.
Cause I love pirates. Specifically, I love the fantasy side of pirates that Rare has chosen to specialize in.
When I signed up for the alpha testing, I was unsure. Would I be able to enjoy the game even with the heavy PvP element? Luckily, I could. The relaxed nature of the game and low cost for death let me take the PvP in stride.
And actually, I've grown to kinda like the PvP as well, in my own way. Being chased by other players has led to some amazing interactions and unexpected adventures.
It definitely isn't for everyone, but we all play differently, right? Mine might be a little more extreme, but I wouldn't change it for the world.
@embalmer It really doesn't matter how much they add, hardcore players will burn through it in minutes or hours and be right back demanding "more." It's no-win for Rare. I think a lot of people expect this game to be an mmo. That's what I wanted/expected at first. Learning to just slow down and let the game drive itself was a hard switch to flip, but once I did I enjoyed it a ton more.
I feel like I understand what rare meant when they said the game "begins" at pirate legend. I'm not bored at all ...because I don't feel the need to grind missions anymore. I can just...be... It's really freeing to not worry about loot, to take chances I never would have before. And now that bilge rat stuff isn't timed either, it's even better!
I've been setting my own goals in SoT for months now. Losing the commendations I was grinding out was a real blow but I don't need the game to hand goals to me in the form of a rep grind. There are other goals.
Right now my goal is to video a row-boat enabled mega theft from another ship and put it on the interwebs.
I want to steal every last piece of loot without them ever knowing I was there. Wish me luck, the first few attempts have been failures, but as soon as I find myself another row boat I'm going back to training myself how to be a better Cat(fish) Burglar.
@KattTruewalker said it in another Thread.
they built in those ranking up level stuff for people who need stuff like this to be "worth" playing it.
People "work" torwards PL A10, they "grind" and do "boring, repetetive fetch quests" and barely seem to have fun doing it.
They need the incentive of a proper reward to "work" the game and feel like they put "effort" in it.
Rare has added an immense amount of playtime needed to get to PL and A10 and just toned down some commendations, becausse they were ridiculously grindy.
But the "workers" complain anyway. They will forever complain, because in general they dont have fun playing a or the game.
No, they are putting effort in it, work torwards titles and do things they don't like in general.
That's what you get if your childs are perfectly educated to fit into meritocracy.
But Rare's initial vision is a game to play for fun and some cosmetics on they way doing so.
The progress for cosmetics for sure also got me, i found myself "working" and "grinding" torwards the xxx Gold i need to buy this or the reputation level to buy this jacket or hat or hull and sails.
BUT....
I like the game in general and i enjoy playing it and most of the time i just play it and of course i'm happy if i earned some gold and rep, but honestly it's also fun to me if i loose my stuff, be it because i was dumb or be it because others plundered me.
Well thats part of the game, i also plundered others ^^
I won't say i dont care if i loose, but i take it easy because it's a game i play.
The initial idea of playing a game is not "working" or "putting effort in" or "grind boring, repeteive fetch quests".
The idea ist play for fun and the matter itself and get used to loose sometimes.
I play offline games with my daughter, i think i loose more often than i win. Do i have less fun? No. Do i need a "proper reward" for my "effort and work" playing a game with her? heck NO!
What i see is people complaing about games as if they were serious things in their life, as if that is very important and it need to be something meaningfull.
The absolutley No.1 meaning of playing games is having fun with others.
Nothing else. Phrases like work, effort and having no incentive to play, eh sorry work, just show very clearly where these "gamers" are coming from.
Imo - and please try to not take it offensive - they either havent ever learned to play for fun and the matter itself or they are just that much into meritocracy that they cannot see what playing a game is really about, because they were teached and told their whole life, if you get something effortlessly it's worth nothing.
If you haven't put effort in, you deserve nothing!
To be fair: there are things in life you need to work for, put effort in to get rewarded. Doing your job or learn and play an instrument and become a musician, be it for fun, as a hobby, semi prfessional or even a Pro for example.
But playing games is something that initially is beyound or below that sort of activity. It's senseless, playing games won't ever and need not give the activity iteself a meaining.
Playing games means you do something completeley "worthless".
Oh wait thats maybe not accurate.
You need and you want to play only for fun and do things beside working in your job, become a musician or whatever you want to become you have to train for. - to do things that just don't "count", because they are just fun and mean nothing.
I'm glad i can do things in my life that are only for fun and completely "senseless" regarding meritocracy. I would hang myself if playing games become a serious thing in life -really :P
Do you want everything in your life means something?
Do you want everything in your life needs work to do?
Work you in general don't like, but do it, because it's neccessary like rinse of the plate, clean the bathroom and iron shirts?
No, i guess not.
edit: Oh and i forgot to say this:
How many hours you "worked" for PL A10???
I think very much.
Thing is things need to stay mediocre to please as much players as possible.
So some hardcore will do it in no time, while others won't get to it ever and in between there are players perfectly chllenged.
No one's guilt but your own if you make a job of it.
@r3b3lspy sagte in I LOVE this game but......:
@stundorn Skinner's box
And then be proud of being the fastest in a treadmill :-D
When games created the way to keep players in an endless treadmill and it's the only part of the game they play because of, they rant that it's a tedious and repetetive treadmill.
But what they do is exactly asking for it instead to play for fun and the matter itself.
Ridiculous and somewhat sad that so many people dont know how to "play" anymore.
They could delete all progress and reward i would play either, because i like it the way it is and because i dont exxagerate about playing games it doesnt get boring or repetetive to me.
They exactly describe what they ate doing, WORK instead to play.
Not a suprise it isnt fun to them.
Many of you are missing my point.
I didn't "grind" to Pirate Legend. This game has been out since March 20th, 2018. That's over 6 months of solid game time. If you aren't PL by now, then you don't play this game very much. I have friends that play this game casually and have been PL for quite some time now.
My point was this:
How hard would it be to add some new type of reputation to the game?
Forsaken Shores was the prime opportunity. Instead of getting Dubloons for 10 easy quests (and finding a few skeletons), they should have made all FS content a new faction to raise.
Also - getting the new equipment, items, etc is so easy to get that it doesn't really feel like any sort of accomplishment. Anyone and everyone can get the new content without breaking a sweat.
I will never return to this new content for reasons already posted. It's a huge hassle to quest in this area and not at all worth the extra gold for doing so. Months of hard work by Rare and only a couple short days of game play content to show for it.
What a HUGE missed opportunity by Rare.
The title of this post is still true. I love this game as I've had hours and hours of fun playing it and I'm sure I'll still log in from time to time however - it would be very very easy for Rare to get the PL's back into this game by adding a few new reps to earn.
@blam320 The games 6 months old. If you aren't a legend by now what the hell have you been doing? My friend who plays 1-2 times every 2 weeks is a legend already. You're talking down to people because you like to waste your time doing nothing. Sorry I'd rather not sail north for 3 hours to see what I find considering this games an entirely empty sandbox. It's Rare's fault for saying "pirate legend is where the game starts" then forgetting to even make content for the base game let alone the end game. I've been legend for 3-4 months give or take and before I got the title I spent 80% of my time going out of my way to pvp and hardly focusing on turning in loot. Simply putting in time having fun with the game makes it near impossible to not be a legend by now. Now I hardly play because there's absolutely nothing to do that I haven't done 6,000 times. Finished all the FS commendations after 2 logins. The game was worth taking the time to explore like the first 3 times you login because after that you've already done everything it has to offer. Just because you're cool with the bare minimum doesn't mean we have to be.
I agree with you completely, having done a bit of thinking and reading about it as well, I think Sea of Thieves is confusing a lot of players.
If you go back and think why do games have levels or progression, it's because there is content and new 'things' locked behind that progression - you do the grind, you get the reward, you get that feeling of mastery and progression, when in fact all you've done is spend a long time mostly doing fairly mundane repetitive things to get there - I know, I've done them and Runescape has one of the grindiest most complex levelling systems out there, although there are a few others. Developers do this because it keeps players playing longer, every level/skill point/commendation we earn sets off a burst of dopamine in our brains = positive emotions = feeling of achievement.
So what happens when you get to max level? What do these game designers have to do once those seemingly unattainable things have been attained by the majority? Mostly they tend to move the goalposts, add a few dozen extra levels before you've beaten the game, offer you loot crates, premier membership and other ways to pay or short cut your way through the deliberately designed barriers to new content. We've seen it in Sea of Thieves even - those little techniques for maximising rep, but what for?
How refreshing then, and confusing for some, to come across a game where none of this (except the Legends tavern perhaps and Athenas) is happening, where the content is available to all, all of the time. Where your accomplishment is to increase your own skill set for sailing, fighting, locating treasure chests or not to bother doing that at all.
Where you are able to just play however you like with whomever you like, for as long or as little as you like and everyone, even after months of absence, be on a level playing field.
So we have these divisions between different groups of gamers, those who enjoy the journey via discrete achievements provided by developers, those who actually, just want to play and have fun in a pirate themed world and those who enjoy a mixture of both.
It doesn't make any of those groups wrong in what they're saying, but it does require us to really understand what Sea of Thieves is, as a game.
I've made Legend a while back and Forsaken Shores was an awesome addition. I think players are just too used to playing a game with the singular objective of getting all unlockables and achievements as quickly as possible. A lot of Legend pirates I run into feel bored and disgusted at "No additional content," but I feel, in my opinion, that just allows you to concentrate on other things. Go after other players, do the raids, or make your own adventures. People get to caught up in the stats and numbers. Just take a break if you feel bored.
@blg-strong-dad said in I LOVE this game but......:
@blam320 The games 6 months old. If you aren't a legend by now what the hell have you been doing?
Maybe not grinding, fort hopping, spending eight hours a day doing everything possible to get to the end of a game that has no end. Maybe having fun with friends, exploring the game and finding things to do that have no reward other than the experience of being there.
@stone0898 Maybe you should learn to read. I clearly said I WAS having fun with the game and not focusing on grinding a title out. I definitely played the game A LOT when it was new. I had much more free time over the summer than I do now. However by no means at all did I grind for the title. I got it because it's not hard to do at all if you simply put the time in. But go ahead, say more of what the last guy said. Your opinion is enlightening.
@katttruewalker
Cannot agree more. Well i'm relatively an oldtimer in gaming, 42y young :-)
I wouldn't call me a gamer although my first game was Scooby Doo on an Amstrad cpc464 and I continued playing games from time to time until today.
I also got lost in endless progression, but one day I said no, stop never do it again! And I didn't exxagerate, I never was able to play longer than 5 hours in a row, I need to go out and take a break an breath fresh air :-)
I allways liked sandboxes , but i hated progression systems and what you described about keeping content behind a wall of grind.
To me these gamemechanics are just artificially timesink.
I understand progress and achievements very well,to some degree I am unfortunately completely against it and I dislike meritocracy for several reasons, but that's too much to explain and too off topic, but i can say that for real life this is sometimes a problem for me, as i can't do repetitive dull or just unethical work only to get rewarded properly. I got many offers to do projects or work like a salesman I would earn double or triple I do actually, but there's no meaning to me doing this, or even more bad the meaning is highly doubtful to me and doesn't fit my moral principles.
I'm so glad that rare has done it the way they did.
Somehow they saved online gaming to me, because of their approach to only have a horizontal and cosmetic related progression.
I also play to get this or that, but it's absolutely seconded to get a new hat or title, i anyway won't change the brave vanguard title or wear PL or Athena stuff.
I for sure will change my outfit from time to time, i just buyed a complete crab set, but don't wear it :-D
But the main thing is no +1 stuff, nothing what makes players with a unusual amount for freetime better than you, no artifical boarders to hide content for new players.
Levels and verical progression does only one thing: it separates players, because it limits access to several content and creates a power gap.
A gap that's already and by natural existent, because of people play much more than others. These are allways more skilled, because of practice and know mostly more about the game. So I never understood why someone playing more and gets better anyway because of practice need a +1 weapon.
If we talk about offline SP RPG for example it's an absolutely other discussion, but we are talking about an online game, where interaction of players is the keyfeature, be it competitive or cooperative there is absolutely nothing what justifies separation of players. Or make one stronger ,just because of time spent playing. Even cooperation suffers. One isnt challenged anymore or the lower levels are useless and just pulled to get to highlevel.
That's truly bad gamedesign.
A friend once argued that the casual and less skilled players profit from having the progamers limited somehow.
But to be honest I never saw this working and either ask myself how that's gonna work?!
The progamer in the end is and stays the more practiced player. And dont get me wrong, that's totally ok.
But why do i need to grind repetitive tasks forever until I can learn to fight them and get practiced against them?
Levels and vertical progression shouldnt exist in online games, they just segegrate players and create a questionable gap, at least in competitive games or games with competitive content, but also for cooperation it's often just bad. Can't play together friend leveled ahead ,can't go there, can't accept quest, can't contribute, I'm to weak and just here to get xp for free, aren't challenged anymore just here to push the lowbies ...
BS ! Sorry :)
@blg-strong-dad @Stone0898
Just for the record, I'm not a Legend yet either. Yes I do play regularly, yes I have a fantastic time most sessions and no, I don't care that I'm not Legend yet lol
