It's Like Rare Isn't Even Trying Anymore

  • After watching yet another Rare Weekly Stream where Joe Neate and company wander around aimlessly and laugh about things (like getting drunk and playing a handful of prerecorded songs) that have existed in the game since the alpha, I'm seriously starting to wonder if Rare even playtests their own game.

    Forsaken Shores may be my last straw with the title. Instead of introducing new ways to interact with others and fleshing out the sandbox, SoT has essentially become a tedious game of resource management and repetitive tasks that are impossible to avoid regardless of skill level.

    First of all, if Rare is serious about wanting players to explore islands they need to completely overhaul skeleton AI and spawning. I'm so tired of fighting off wave after wave of skeletons that endlessly kite towards your character and auto replenish health as you're going in for the final death swing. To make matters worse, Forsaken Shores has introduced a new mechanic (earthquakes) that hinder player movement but have no affect on skeletons. Almost every skeleton wave spawns a gunpowder skeleton, and this game has essentially become a game of kiting groups together, blowing up the gunpowder skeleton, or getting blown up by the gunpowder skeleton, or getting auto killed by a random group of skeletons with guns. I continue to be adamant that the fact that Rare decided to add eye of reach skeletons into this game proves that they have no idea what they're doing. The usual suspects on this forum will undoubtedly cry ("get good"), but unlike games where that may actually be true, so many of these events are simply unavoidable regardless of skill level. Even if you play ultra conservatively there's a good chance that some random mixture of events (eye of reach wave + gunpowder + earthquake + falling volcano rocks) will ruin your day. Especially if you're playing with anything short of a galleon.

    Oh and I want to emphasize how stupid the falling volcano rocks are. Unlike skull fort towers, you can literally do nothing except wait for them to stop. You can be off doing a voyage on an island only to be essentially auto killed by a falling rock which both auto targets your character and the ship. If you're slooping good luck getting back to your ship in time get those repairs in especially if one of the auto killing falling rocks sends you to the ship of the damned. If you respawn on your ship and it is sunk, hope you enjoy your new spawn on the western side of the map. I suppose you can always go do dishes or something while you slowly chart your course back to the forsaken shores.

    Nothing about this update is fun. Perhaps I'd enjoy exploring the new region, but the game literally gives me no freedom or time to do that. Every second I'm on an island, some timer is always counting down to the next annoyance that I have to deal with and contribute resources to. There is no exploring in SoT or appreciating the art, because everything in this game has become about doing the repetitive quest types as quickly as possible to avoid said annoyances.

    Oh and don't even get me started on the stupid new inventory management system. Perhaps it's marginally better now that you're able to "grab all", but it doesn't change the fact that it's significantly more cumbersome and honestly antithetical to design concepts around simplicity and non intrusive UI. Like the forum changes that were near universally criticized, Rare seems totally set on this "get used to it" attitude. Which is ironic because they constantly push this spin that they care and listen to the community.

    To top it all off, how is it that the mainline stories to every new piece of content is just a stupid fetch quest to read books or interact with x static NPC player. Rare I can guarantee that 90% of your players are not reading this lore and are simply looking up internet wikis to grind through these commendations as quickly as possible.

    This is all so disheartening because I fell in love with this game during the alpha and felt like this game offered something significantly different from other multiplayer titles. Now this game is what? Just a bunch of superusers who are largely addicted to grinding for grinding's sake, and a smattering folks with Game Pass who are just briefly testing out the title?

    Rare you're really losing me. I'm going to continue following this title, because I still believe in the conceptual promise of this franchise. But the direction that this game has headed in really since the alpha is really disappointing, and there may come a point very soon where I will simply abandon the title all together and hope that you decide to develop a proper followup that delivers on the conceptual promise of this franchise.

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  • ::slow clap::

    Bravo...nailed it!

  • @williamherschel Hello William :) It's been a while since we've spoken. You bring up some really good points. Some I agree with and other I do not, but that's just my opinion. As always, I'm right there with you when it comes to the AI behavior. And it is a little ridiculous that skeletons aren't affected by the earthquakes at all. However, they do get insta-killed by geysers which makes OOS relatively simple if you can avoid dying to the environment.

    I certainly think that the volcano (and tremor) timers need to be increased significantly. All I had really hoped to do in today's session was to explore the new islands to get a feel for the new parts of the world and for the big islands this was quite tedious because it took several volcano rotations to go through the whole thing. And I still ended up missing stuff. The range of the volcanic rocks could probably be reduced a little as well. At the very least they could make it so that only smaller rocks reach that far out and there are less of them so it's not likely you will get hit the farther you are away. Just my quick brainstorms.

    The UI does feel clunky but I don't really care to discuss that because it wasn't part of the Forsaken Shores content update.

    I haven't even gotten to the quest for this event yet. I talked to Duke but he didn't say anything and I haven't seen any commendations for it. The last two certainly seemed to be fetch quests. I enjoyed the lore of the Cursed Sails but the quests were kind of boring. I would much rather have to go somewhere and slay a boss, escort a merchant vessel and protect it from skeleton ships, etc, etc.

    Hope you don't give up on the game!

  • @williamherschel I agree with most of what you're saying, but my biggest point of emphasis in regard to the new update is the frustration caused by erupting volcano rocks. If you explore this new region for more than 15 minutes, it quickly becomes apparent that the rocks spewing from the volcanoes are not an environmental hazard but instead hot cannonballs targeting your ship!

    Your comparison to skeleton towers at the forts is a good one: if you want to stop their attacks, you can either kill the skeletons firing the cannons or break line of sight with them. With the volcanoes, there's no way to stop their attacks by counter-attacking, and you can't easily break line of sight to wait them out because they're effectively firing mortar shots into the air! In a galleon, many of those hits will be to your mid-deck, which is less of a crisis, but it's virtually impossible to approach the islands in a sloop or brigantine without someone constantly repairing the ship for minutes at a time. It's a huge drain on resources and quite frankly isn't a lot of fun. I don't understand what they were thinking with this mechanic.

  • @xcalypt0x

    I don't want to give up on this game, but I refuse to play it until significant improvements are made. @RonFromBurbank and I have hundreds of hours of experience, and there is nothing that either of us could have done differently tonight to counter the environmental and skeleton related nonsense that we experienced tonight.

    Quite honestly we were both (on some level) looking forward to exploring the new region, only to quickly discover that this new region essentially actively encourages players to spend as little time exploring as possible.

    Again, this would be different if any of this stuff was counter-able, instead it's just the same old cheap nonsense in the base level game except stacked even more so that you can literally encounter situations where everything that could go wrong both with AI and environmental mechanics and the game just insta-kills you. Because "(mod edited)" for even trying to explore this region using anything short of a galleon. And quite honestly the only reason galleons are at an advantage is because this game's AI is so poor that it doesn't "understand" water line shots, therefore the majority of environmental and AI damage is just mid-deck, which again has nothing to do with skill.

  • Maybe this will give you a laugh, even though it may be sad at the same time because we all had the same enthusiasm or more as the main character in the video, for this game for so long.

    click at your own risk if you love this game

    Sometimes i wonder if we didnt offer so many more complex and downright good ideas than we see ingame during our time on this forum where this game would be.... it sadly feels like they are avoided out of spite or jealousy that they cant accomplish thinking of or designing any of them themselves, not that i could do the latter either, and the truth is probably just bad company policy and lax deadlines, such as how they split a small studio into smaller teams, all seem to have isolated offices and spend more time on PR and marketing than actually designing anything.

    But apparently adding a bunch of empty islands with nothing new (except the rowboat that was suggested before the alpha and should have been made by launch, just like advancements for mermaids and the ferry, which were “first iterations” that never changed) into a game that already had a bunch of empty islands with no variety of gameplay is enough according to half of this forum, and if you say things like “whats the point of having new islands when there are no new enemies or harvestables or activity of any kind” (except like you said running around in circles and giggling like an idiot when a geyser hits you or the ground shakes) people will respond with posts like “the islands are the danger what dont you get?” And be dead serious about ignoring the main point of your post and defending a blank canvas as if it were a picasso.

    This whole thing has become an exercise in futility for anybody who had any sort of hopes for this game based on the “vision” we were told was being created and that we were told we could have a hand in.

    I so badly want to love this game and want it to be something i look forward to every update and have a great time, and im still grateful to have made friends like you and many others, but that is all thats getting most of us back into the game at this point.

  • Well said..
    I hadnt played in weeks. Forsaken shores got me excited to fire it up again.. And i came back to exactly what you described...
    Did any of the pioneers say anything about the falling rocks? The skeletons were always a joke but more so after the exploding barrels that never got nerfed despite them saying they did...etc etc basically everything you said.
    Soon as anthem or cyberpunk or doom eternal or red dead redemption or something else drops i dont know if ill be coming back anytime soon.

  • @williamherschel the barrel update would likely have been something that would have been widely accepted and praised had they actually designed fully to the point of it feeling good to use instead of forcing it into the game unfinished because of the inclusion of arguably the worst addition to the game, cursed cannonballs, which could have been done in a much fairer way than randomly finding them and half of them are terrible stunlock nonsense that just plain isnt fun.

    That said things like the helm ball or ballast ball or the sail ones or even the limp grog and venom arent as bad as i first imagined.

    Edit: to not sound so negative, seaposts and more npc on islands for cargo runs are good ideas, cargo runs as they are designed im not so sure, we are still light years away from any real sort of economy or trading scenarios.

    Again i want to love this game but the reality is that the negatives outweigh the positives by a large amount and pretty much have since launch.. or if im honest even before that but atleast then we had hope that some part of the original vision would be captured, im not as hopeful at this point..

  • @a-cranky-eskimo

    The game needs serious UI/UX improvements. The latest design trend in multiplayer UI is the "free cursor", which perhaps wouldn't help the current barrel situation, but would certainly be a better way of managing and grouping cosmetics. The tedium of managing spreadsheet menus and endless tabs is something that feels seriously outdated, and is one of the many reasons why SoT continues to feel like a budget title and not a Microsoft first party exclusive.

    I maintain that they are simply trying to do too much with barrels. It's just so janky from a design perspective that identical-looking barrels could have any number of different consumable item types (or none at all "empty").

    The game should stick with the original simple format of grabbing using a single button, but figure out more ways to organically integrate these items into visually distinct containers within the world. There is literally no reason why this game needs a complex UI/UX to manage a system that was conceptually supposed to be simplistic, intuitive, and easy to learn.

  • @williamherschel yeah it dosnt make any sense at all that we have specific barrels on our ship for things when in the world that isnt the case, beyond the fact that scavenging for items in random barrels that are just sitting around everywhere isnt well thought out, and we also have random barrels on our ships that literally just get in the way and arent used.

    Even just giving players a certain amount of gold per day if they are below a certain threshold and allowing resources to be purchased up to a point and removing this pointless part of the gameplay loop would make more sense, or earning resources through a variety of quest types, or having crafting of resources like planks and cannonballs be a thing, almost anything would be better than the way the game works now..

  • My favorite part so far is that the "story" wants you to find out what happened to the first crew to find the Forsaken Shores, so you have to hunt for skeletons on some islands... and then the geysers are erupting all over so you can't see anything.

    I found one at least, and figure that there were other ones on two of the other big islands I was near but the volcanoes kept going off so I'd sit and wait them out. Then I approach the island and start getting hit with a cannon skeleton. I shot him 3 times with the EoR but I assume that the server was not registering my hits so I had to pull away and repair and then the volcano starts up again. Moved on to the next small islands to collect the doubloon commendations for those instead.

    I agree on the UI problems. In a lot of cases, the UI doesn't respond to my key presses, or lags behind. The menus are all disjointed, and can have keys active on 3 separate sections of your keyboard - ESC to exit, Q/E to move one tab, Page Up/Down to move another tab. The mouse or arrow keys to move selection, however if your mouse happens to be over the wrong item when you open the barrel and hit F you'll run into problems.

    Another issue is that the key action to pick up items is also the same one that will trigger the barrel UI even though one is a hold and the other is a press. This is most noticeable when swimming through a wreck and trying to grab a banana or plank, and your character stops to look into the barrel.

  • @personalc0ffee

    Thanks for the PR spin. Always appreciated. Glad you're having fun with the title!

    No Herschel they do not. They are busy developing them. Most developers do not play their own games. The fact you are even questioning this, is baffling. If a developer is too busy playing their game, that means they aren't developing it. That is what they have QA and play testers for.

    Why is it that you feel the need to pick apart every little criticism that anyone has? Like it'd be one thing if you offered counter arguments, but you literally just defend everything in this game as if there is nothing wrong with this title. Do I think developers are playing the game non stop? No, certainly not. But to suggest that developers never play their own game is completely asinine. It took @RonFromBurbank and myself like an hour of playtime to discover how horrendously bad the new section of the game world is, and as he stated above, the biggest issue currently is the volcano projectiles.

    You have had it explained to you multiple upon multiple, upon multiple times that this is not possible due to technical limitations. And that complicated AI like you keep asking for, will further hurt performance of the game and is not easy to implement.

    You have no idea what you're talking about. One person in a thread many months ago who doesn't work at Rare and claimed to have game development experience told you that AI improvements are potentially hampered by technical limitations. You latched onto that post and took it as proof that the AI in this game is what it is and will never improve. This is by no means, a given. I've also said all along that Rare needs to dedicate more resources to performance improvements and base level mechanical improvements instead of adding more arbitrary content.

    You are REQUIRED to park the boat out away from the island and use the row boat to get to the island.

    You are either living in a fantasy of your own making about how this mechanic works, or you haven't spent any significant amount of time playing this update.

    UI was built with scale in mind, Herschel. Not resource barrel hopping. Those days are beyond us. You can not have simple and minimalist UI design with depth of gameplay and scale, they are two opposites. To have one you must trade off the other.

    This is just gobbledygook and you know it. Your deep/complex gameplay excuse is, just duct tape game design to accommodate this new consumable in the easiest possible way rather than developing new containers or mechanics that contribute to the overall game flow. Burying players in menus is so clearly antithetical to how this game was pitched on a conceptual level.

  • @personalc0ffee Based on your response here and some of the previous conversations you referenced, it seems to me you have a solid grasp of how these issues are (apparently) unable to be addressed from a technical perspective but have yet to understand why people like @WilliamHerschel constantly bring them up in the first place. Your rebuttals for the issues enumerated here reads more like someone dismissing a fantastic, unachievable wish list rather than an outline of frustrations about the overall design direction. When you compare the type of gameplay experience offered by SoT to other open world persistent-ish titles, expecting more interesting PvE conflicts than enemies spawning on top of you every 60 seconds or environmental factors that influence AI behavior at an extremely basic level doesn't seem that unreasonable.

    I'm also a little frustrated, as a spectator, that you seem to read these criticisms too literally and ultimately miss the overall point. When @WilliamHerschel says, "Does Rare even play their own game?" he's not asking if Joe, Shelley and everyone else clock out at 5 o'clock and stay up until 1 a.m. playing the game. The obvious intent of his statement is that, from the player's perspective, overall game design seems muddled, QA isn't providing any significant value outside of bug/stability testing and Pioneer feedback is essentially being ignored.

    I (or someone else) can go into more detail on other issues if you like, but one example that you chose to defend is the volcano eruptions and rowboats. Do you mean to tell me that Rare had a meeting where they decided players should find a randomly spawned rowboat, attach it to their ship, sail towards an island but stop at a range where its details are barely popping in, deploy the rowboat to shore with all (or most) of a crew, survive the hazards of the island (which, again, the skeletons who spawn within aggro range every 60 seconds, often with an explosive barrel, are not affected by*), load the loot onto the rowboat, and then spend 60-90 seconds rowing it back to their ship? Which is parked out of even cannon range if they die on the island where they left their rowboat? All of this, of course, completely irrespective of other players interfering in the experience?

    Or is it that you've taken it upon yourself to bridge the gaps in all this logic to defend something that was never fully thought-out in the first place? I think the latter is much more likely. I think Rare is an awesome studio with really cool, talented developers, all of whom are under tremendous pressure, but I don't think they need to be shielded from this kind of feedback. We write these lengthy diatribes because we care about the game, not because we don't have anything better to do.

    Ultimately, my perception here (and in other threads) is that your attitude essentially comes down to "these things will never improve, so take it or leave it." And even though you engage like you're aruging with what @WilliamHerschel is saying, I don't think that's at odds with his point. The only difference seems to be that only one of you has nearly exhausted their patience.

    *Edit: to be clear, I am talking about the fact that earthquakes prevent you from running but do not prevent skeletons from chasing you at full speed.

  • @ronfromburbank

    I (or someone else) can go into more detail on other issues if you like, but one example that you chose to defend is the volcano eruptions and rowboats. Do you mean to tell me that Rare had a meeting where they decided players should find a randomly spawned rowboat, attach it to their ship, sail towards an island but stop at a range where its details are barely popping in, deploy the rowboat to shore with all (or most) of a crew, survive the hazards of the island (which, again, the skeletons who spawn within aggro range every 60 seconds, often with an explosive barrel, are not affected by), load the loot onto the rowboat, and then spend 60-90 seconds rowing it back to their ship? Which is parked out of even cannon range if their die on the island where they left their rowboat? All of this, of course, completely irrespective of other players interfering in the experience?

    Thank you for your eloquence here, it's 1:14AM and I have to be at work at 8AM so I have no idea why I am still posting in this damn thread. I encourage everyone to simply ignore my previous post, and read yours instead.

  • @williamherschel Many thanks to you and Ron for this thread.

  • @personalc0ffee said in It's Like Rare Isn't Even Trying Anymore:

    @williamherschel said in It's Like Rare Isn't Even Trying Anymore:

    After watching yet another Rare Weekly Stream where Joe Neate and company wander around aimlessly and laugh about things (like getting drunk and playing a handful of prerecorded songs) that have existed in the game since the alpha, I'm seriously starting to wonder if Rare even play tests their own game.

    No Herschel they do not. They are busy developing them. Most developers do not play their own games. The fact you are even questioning this, is baffling. If a developer is too busy playing their game, that means they aren't developing it. That is what they have QA and play testers for.

    Some next level reasoning right here. So this game is like one of those “really artistic” paintings of smudges and splatters and rare didnt even bother to look, signed it, sold it, and we poor negative nancies just dont get it? I see...

    First of all, if Rare is serious about wanting players to explore islands they need to completely overhaul skeleton AI and spawning. I'm so tired of fighting off wave after wave of skeletons that endlessly kite towards your character and auto replenish health as you're going in for the final death swing.

    You have had it explained to you multiple upon multiple, upon multiple times that this is not possible due to technical limitations. And that complicated AI like you keep asking for, will further hurt performance of the game and is not easy to implement.

    Who are you joe neate?? Nobody that mattered has ever told us this “multiple times”, and if its true they should have.

    Oh and I want to emphasize how stupid the falling volcano rocks are. Unlike skull fort towers, you can literally do nothing except wait for them to stop. You can be off doing a voyage on an island only to be essentially auto killed by a falling rock which both auto targets your character and the ship. If you're slooping good luck getting back to your ship in time get those repairs in especially if one of the auto killing falling rocks sends you to the ship of the damned. If you respawn on your ship and it is sunk, hope you enjoy your new spawn on the western side of the map. I suppose you can always go do dishes or something while you slowly chart your course back to the forsaken shores.

    You are REQUIRED to park the boat out away from the island and use the row boat to get to the island.

    Yes and based on the pvp design this is just plain a stupid idea.

    I fixed the rest of your post for you, you dont have to thank me i know you appreciate it.

    Oh and don't even get me started on the stupid new inventory management system. Perhaps it's marginally better now that you're able to "grab all", but it doesn't change the fact that it's significantly more cumbersome and honestly antithetical to design concepts around simplicity and non intrusive UI.

    UI was built with scale in mind, Yet there arent any reasons besides rushing to add cursed cannonballs, to scale at this stage. You can have simple and minimalist UI design with depth of gameplay and scale, To have both is accomplished through creative problem solving.

    Simple=Easy to understand meaning
    Complication=Many variables without meaning
    true depth=any number of variables with continued value
    The more true depth something has, means that even if something is simplistic in nature, it has meaning and continued value, and can have many variables while remaining simple in design, such as simple controls and visually distinct containers rather than clunky UI.


    Rare needs to take classes in software development and programming. They need to understand the processes behind the things they create so they can understand why it truly sucks in its current state and why the games biggest fans and their greatest free assets and think tank, criticize so harshly.

    They will very quickly see you can just slap things together if they work efficiently as a studio, and fixing control scheme imbalance is as simple as a toggle.

  • @WilliamHerschel Please refrain from discussion of Pioneer testing outside of the Pioneer forum, as it is a violation of the NDA you signed when you joined the program. This would include discussion of anything that was said during testing, the substance of those tests, and the content present in the Pioneer forums. Your post has been removed accordingly.

  • @lady-aijou

    Totally fair. I thought I was walking the line without crossing it, but I appreciate the reminder and will be more aware of that going forward.

  • I'm going to quote (paraphrase really) Mike here so read this in a Birmingham accent: "The new region is going to be dangerous, so you'll need to really plan to go there, stock up your ship etc"

    Seems to me that's what they achieved. The volcanoes are frustrating? Yeah I agree. They're supposed to be. The skeletons not being slowed down appears unfair, possibly an oversight? I'm sure they'll adjust it if they keep getting feedback like this about it.

    I'm fine with the barrel UI, doesn't trigger me the way it does a lot of you guys. I see your point about it being more convoluted than the original system but it still works and it does have some added utility if less intuitive usability. The thing I do like about the new UI is that it adds per-session power progression. A ship that's been on a server for hours might have 300 planks on board, making them much more challenging to sink, I love a challenge, for me this adds more than I lost in the barrels being a little more complex to use, but I get that's personal preference.

    I dunno, I've been on a break, @WilliamHerschel you sound a lot less enthusiastic about the game since I was last around these parts. That's a shame and it highlights your concerns I guess. Have you considered a lengthy break combined with a mild addiction to another game? It did wonders for me in terms of enjoying SoT again (almost felt like a new game after a month and a half off of all media, forums and the game itself)

  • A reminder to all, please avoid engaging in personal arguments, and derailing the topic of the thread. It is fine to debate the content of the post, and the viewpoints therein, but disrespecting any of your fellow pirates personally is against the pirate code, and our forum rules.

  • @williamherschel @RonFromBurbank you speak my mind, sister.

  • @boxcar-squidy and miss out on the commendations and exclusive cosmetics??! But who would take our criticisms seriously then? Oh wait.... at this point we are all basically just repeating ourselves over and over only for it to be drowned in a cacophony of ignorant praise, and occasional aggressive denial.

    I dont want to live on this planet anymore.

  • @personalc0ffee

    Simple=Not complicated
    Complication=Depth

    The more depth something has, the more complicated it is to create or work with it.

    Hell no, not necessarily! Not when it comes to the UI anyway.
    I don't think we'd need the inventory tab at all.
    barrels
    Have barrels contain just one single type of item, as it used to be. Make them perhaps more distinct. Make it very clear when they are empty, like an open lid
    (now we still have to walk up to them in order to find out they are empty, and the empty message is a UI thing. If it is the barrel itself showing it, that would again decrease UI complexity without decreasing depth).
    Also have this work for ALL barrels (apart from the broken ones), so also the barrels on board
    (more depth, less complexity. You can designate barrels as you like. Store wood in more locations. Have resources spread across all decks on a galleon etc.).
    If you want to store something in the barrel, you can hold that item in your hand and perhaps right-click (I play on PC) as you would to give it to someone. The game can then store the item in the barrel and untill you empty it, that is now the only thing you can store in that barrel. Keep that button pressed to store more.

    Cursed Cannonballs
    Keep them if you like. They add depth for sure. But you don't need to be able to access all of them at all times.
    Have cannonball crates next to the cannons. Make each pirate able to hold only one type of cannonball. Use the cannonball crates in the same way as the barrels. You can only ever store one type at the time in them. This decreases depth in that you will undoubtedly have fewer types of CC to fight with, unless you take your time restocking. But it increases depth in that you have to decide which cannonballs to load in your cannon. You can load a helmball so you can take normal cannonballs in your inventory, but the opponent will see that you have a CC loaded and may attack from the other side. You cannot as easily juggle between cannonballs anymore and have to make deliberate choices.

    inventory wheel
    I find this quite cumbersome, but far less so than the inventory tab. As PC player, you can have hotkeys but I don't use those much. Perhaps there would be an alternative to this, but I'm not sure yet.

    Button presses
    Okay, so this adds somewhat to complexity (at least for players) but not in the slightest to depth. I'm annoyed by the different button presses you need. In order to acces a barrel, you tap F. In order to pick up anything, you hold F. In order to interact with a thing like a cannon or ladder, you tap F. So far so good.
    But in order to get out of an inventory menu, you have to tap Esc. If you want to leave a cannon, you tap F. And only for merchants you need the R button (okay, and to feed pigs).

    If there is no inventory menu at barrels anymore, the problem of having to quickly find the Esc button when you're suddenly shot at will be gone. In shops, that is usually less of a problem.
    The R for merchants is there because handing in an item already uses the F button. Why not give an object to a merchant in the same way as you would give it to another player? Then talking to said merchant can be under the F key.
    Same for pigs. Why not feed them by handing them a banana?
    You already have the animation and everything. Would that change depth? No, not realy. Perhaps it would be more intuitive. Would it decrease complexity? Yes!

    If all similar actions are done by a similar button press, like giving someone something with the right mouse-button, then that will decrease the complexity of the UI/UX.

    Conclusion
    Losing the inventory tab would not decrease depth, but would decrease complexity.
    The barrels don't need to be the way they are in order to have a lot of depth.
    The button layout is currently more complex than it needs to be.

    Bonus
    This video is all about depth vs complexity (though more in a broad sense, and not aimed at UI) and was the inspiration for this rant.

    Catch you on the seas!

  • What The Forsaken Shores is missing is some sort of endgame.

    With The Hungering Deep we were introduced to a new threat on the seas. As massive shark that could only (read: easier) be killed when crews bond together. It gave more meaning to the game by opening up opportunities to team up with other crews. It lacked reason to go through the battle again, though.

    Than the Cursed Sails sailed into the world. Yet another A.I. threat, but this time it was different. The alliance system gave us new ways to betray or to be betrayed. Which in my opinion was tons of fun as it contributes to the thrill and excitement this game can give the player. Cooperation was needed to defeat the waves of ships and the reward was plentiful. It gave a reason to come back for more.

    And now we have The Forsaken Shores. We have 15 new islands to explore. Don't get me wrong, the volcanic landscape is simply amazing. The fact is that this new update lacks some sort of campaign is probably most disappointing. It just doing the same thing over and over again, but this time with volcanos.

    The best experience I had with The Forsaken Shores was finding a rowboat, finish up an active fort with my mates and load that sweet loot onto the rowboat. An addition that could've been released with a regular update.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the fact the developers expanded the map without any performance issues they mention earlier. The landscape looks amazing and the volcanoes are beautiful. But other than that, what is the difference with the main map? It feels to me the could have filled the islands in the main map with more things to do. Heck, maybe finish those inactive forts first? Why go through all the trouble and spending so much time on creating a new piece of map, if what they have still feels unfinished. Why delay the cargo runs if they just could've released them in the main world.

    The Forsaken Shores is just hard mode aimed for the non-legend. Maybe it just lacks a reward waiting to be explored, beyond to the horizon, in a far away land...

  • @lt-swag-johnson to be fair we dont know what they have planned for when they introduce cargo runs and then “week 4’s commendations” or whatever they said in the patch notes.

    But i agree rather than going on an epic voyage today was a travel checklist with a few hidden skeletons. There was no reason to be there other than that list, to make us feel any thrill when trying to avoid eruptions etc.

    The thing this game lacks across the board is incentive, meaning for players actions, and repercussions and rewards that are affecting gameplay. We just horde gold that we get from fetch quests to then buy meaningless cosmetics. These are supposed to play into the social aspect to give them meaning but then we see all sets are priced the same for each item and that goes out the window...

    where are the extended respawn timers for pirates who attack merchant players and are killed but not sunk, bounties for sinking said ship that increase based on how many players they killed or ships they sunk or loot they stole, activities that allow players to create their own voyages through decision making rather than a-b fetch quests. Ai monsters that arent floating blobs that i can stop in their tracks by jumping into the water with or ones that actually have bodies or ai ships that dont move like they are on rollercoaster track...

  • I am afraid I couldn't agree more, @a-cranky-eskimo

    I tried to keep my expectations for this expansion low, but I am still disappointed. I don't know how to defend this DLC apart from the fact that it is free.

    I don't believe the cargo runs are going to chance my opinion about this expansion. What are we supposed to do within the next two weeks?

  • @lt-swag-johnson apparently make friends in a pirate game to then fake drink and fake play music with while you stand around and giggle, and i guess the view.

    Atleast they actually have that last one going for them.. everything else i said sounds like something an 8 year old might enjoy. If they are immature for 8.

    Edit: oh, or go around and pvp regardless of enemy ships loot because that is the only thing left that is any fun. But they did everything they could to allow the fleets of cowardly pirates, who apparently flock to an open world pvp game to then avoid it, every opportunity to run away and turn things in on every other island, because every other island is an outpost that accepts all forma of loot, dont want to fight? Jump off and turn a chest in and take a mermaid! Cant handle losing? Sink your own ship from the menu! Create your own epic story of running away and making sure neither party has any fun! The gold dosnt matter anyways! You either cause grief by attack or cause grief by running away! Sea of Griefs for game of the year!

  • I think that is a tad bit on the negative side, @a-cranky-eskimo

    The best thing about the game is playing it with friends and/or finding new ones along the way.

    My point of view is that the best thing is still here, sailing together, but nothing notable (besides the rowboat) was added to improve that experience even more.

  • @lt-swag-johnson oh i know im being dramatic lol... have made a lot of friends due to this game and if it otherwise completely fails atleast they had that going. i just meant they want everyone to make friends with other crews, which can sometimes be fun in all honesty, but shouldnt be encouraged so much, it should be a real risk that you dont trust until you know the person. But yeah the rowboat and cargo runs are both things that should already have been in game a long time ago imo, and i would prefer a real form of cargo runs and trade routes that can change etc and only have certain locations that can do certain things or accept certain items, rather than all outposts being universal.

  • Devs won't read this, they only read reddit. ;)

  • @a-cranky-eskimo
    That's alright, mate, I hear you.

    I am making a list of easy additions that could have made the expansion feel more than it is now:

    • More outfits I am talking outfits like Grand Admiral, Ruffian Sea Dog etc. Bring in at least 8 new outfits.
    • New instrument everybody has been asking for a new instrument. Where is the banjo? Something as simple as this could make me smile. The excuse is "we don't have enough room on the equipment wheel".
    • New shanty The Hungering Deep did it, why can't we have one or two new shanties?
    • Cannon cosmetics We all know it is a lot of work to design an implement all the cosmetics for all the ship liveries, but come on. This was already (accidently) teased with the Cursed Sails.

    @mc-rossco
    I don't even care about that, mate. I just want to get this off my chest. And I am still looking for reasons to love this new expansion, because in my current state I can't.

  • @williamherschel I'm totally with you on most of your points. The whole intention of the update at this point seems to be exploration and discovery. But they've tried to make that task as annoying as possible. Erupting islands just makes you not want to explore. It's just not worth the hassle. So you end up going elsewhere or sitting on your ship waiting it out, which isn't really playing the game.

    As for the "leave you ship out of range" argument. It doesn't really stack up for me, I'm a solo player so my sloops isn't likely to be there when I get back. If you've got a crew then someone needs to stay with the ship so they'll be bored stiff, not exploring the island, not experiencing the new content. The couple of times I did row ashore my rowboat was destroyed by either gunpowder skellies (who seem to spawn in their thousands) by geysers or some other magic.

  • @lt-swag-johnson they could have had wild boars and larger snakes and larger predatory birds as dangerous reskins for the animal types that would still use the same cages, they could have reskinned a couple items like skulls and made the kraken and meg drop teetb that had to be collected to progressively be able to buy those 2 sets. There are a lot of things that you would think arent that hard to accomplish that they dont seem to even think about.

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