Alliances are actually killing this game

  • Zaannox
    Castaway

    As of right now there is currently no downside to being in an Alliance. The only one I can come up with is that you can't (or should not) sink the ships that you form an Alliance with. And to some people THAT'S AN UPSIDE! Want free gold and rep? Join an Alliance! Want to get to Athena Level 10 in 2 weeks? Join an Alliance!

    There needs to be a downside, I swear whoever developed Alliances has no idea how to balance or develop a game.

    Easy quick hotfix you can implement in a day, easily. Instead of making it so the "Mother" ship gets 100% and then everyone else gets 50%, split it between all the ships in the Alliances. So the more ships there are, the less gold/rep you get. Easy, fair, AND BALANCED!

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  • D Jaguar
    Captain
    Insider

    @zaannox i wouldn't say it is killing the game, but it has made it more peaceful. The peacefulness has taken away from what the game used to be. I would agree that it does not feel that the game improved because of it.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    They already made a change - when you turn in loot while in an alliance, you only get 75% of the total value (not 100%) and if someone else in the alliance turns it in, you only get 50%.

  • Zaannox
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek So that means that if you're in an alliance with just one ship you are still getting, 25% extra loot
    75% + their 50% = 125%
    Extra 25% gold and rep for doing nothing but pressing a button.
    Now lets say there are 6 ships in an Alliance. Which there are discords servers of 6 ship Alliances all running Athena's. That means that you would be earning Athena's Rep:
    75% + (5)50% =
    75% + 250% = 325%
    You would be earning Athena's Rep 2.25x faster than if you weren't in an Alliance. And even if you only have 1 ship in the Alliance that's still 0.25x faster.
    Make of it what you will. I think it needs to be split evenly.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @zaannox I'm actually in agreement with you in terms of the even split - it was something that I suggested early on. However, I think the devs wanted to give players an incentive to join an alliance, so that the new feature gained traction, and it has. Also, you're forgetting just how hard it is to get every single ship on a server to join into a single alliance - there's still a lot of players out there who wouldn't be interested in doing that. While server takeovers are possible, they aren't that common, and as such, it's something that I don't think really warrants concern. Besides, if everyone's on board, why would it be an issue?

  • Zaannox
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek There shouldn't be an added intensive for joining an Alliance other than, "Look we have one less enemy!"
    I also disagree about the "it's hard to get all 6 ships in one server in an Alliance" part. It's not hard when you tell them, hey do you want free Athena Rep?

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @zaannox Not everyone wants to do an extended athena voyage due to time constraints - I know I often don't. Also, alliances never guarantee "one less enemy" - they are a fickle thing...

  • Zaannox
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek You're right but very few people say no to free stuff. I do because I'm an a****e and I like to ruin people's fun :) But even I have joined Alliances with 3+ ships on it because there's no reason not to. Free gold at that point.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @zaannox It's kind of funny - a lot of people complained about how long and tedious the grind to legend was, and now that the devs have taken steps towards easing that burden, people are still complaining about the exact opposite now. Some people are never satisfied - I find it kind of sad.

    Mad world...

  • Zaannox
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek I have always been against making the grind easier because that's just a slap to the face to all the people who did that grind before they started letting you skip steps. Especially since Rare hasn't given any title or even a commendation to those Legends to grinded for 400+ hours when nowadays you can get to Legend in a few weeks.

    Too focused on making it easier to get people to Legend while also not giving any content to current Legends. Basically telling every Legend that did it the hard way to sit down and wait for everyone else.

  • Sgt Paloogoo
    Commander
    Insider

    The reason why Rare didn't make a sizable draw back to Alliances is because no one would form Alliances if there were draw backs.

    And I haven't noticed the seas get much friendlier btw.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @zaannox You have to remember that it's in Rare's best interest to get more players involved, so that they can continue to support the game. Making the grind easier is 1 way of doing just that. Also, IMO your argument about what's fair kind of falls flat (no offense) because your reward is having played the game first, and for longer, than others. You are an experienced pro compared to new players and can likely use the skill and experience you've gained to wipe the floor with newer players. Besides, if you've already completed it, relish in that fact alone; if it was harder, be even prouder; if you haven't completed it, then hey - it's easier! It's a win, win, win.

    I'm sorry that you don't see it that way.

  • Zaannox
    Castaway

    @galactic-geek I don't see it that way because being a "Legend" actually meant something when I first achieved it. But now? Hell, everyone's a Legend! And I still have NOTHING to do! I'm out here sinking ships because there's literally nothing else for me to do.

    Hoping that Forsaken Shores finally gives a new faction
    .

  • jonavuka
    Marauder

    Add an incentive to sinking other ships and there you go... Other than I can steal their treasure that is, idk what exactly they should add but this would definitely balance things out

  • Drewdigon
    Captain
    Insider

    @zaannox Yeah I don’t know if you have really noticed, but most people don’t understand how Alliances’ work. A lot of them think it works like the way you want it to work, which is a reason a lot of people don’t join Alliances. I wouldn’t say they are ruining the game by any means, in fact if we went with your method they would be virtually pointless since no one wants to split the loot they have.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @zaannox said in Alliances are actually killing this game:

    @galactic-geek I don't see it that way because being a "Legend" actually meant something when I first achieved it. But now? Hell, everyone's a Legend! And I still have NOTHING to do! I'm out here sinking ships because there's literally nothing else for me to do.

    Hoping that Forsaken Shores finally gives a new faction
    .

    Rare said that getting to Legend was only the beginning - with that I remain hopeful. That said, to my knowledge, there have been no new factions that have been announced.

  • Mith Bosevem
    Marauder

    WHY does there need to be a downside??? Its bad enough that your allies can turn on you at any time or just use you. The idea is to make it fun to play together. What is so bad about everyone playing the same game together? L**O

  • Mith Bosevem
    Marauder

    @exeternautical Thank you I wanted to say that but I couldnt phrase it in a nice way. I mean cmon why would you be in an alliance if you only got 50% of YOUR OWN LOOT.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @Zaannox I feel for you. But I tell you a secret.
    Early PL only proof one thing for me.
    You want it to mean something, but are too serious about it.
    You worked and maybe exploited gamemechanics ( only gold chickens, tapped chests?) instead of played the game, because you are to serious about it.
    You play a questionable amount of time everyday what makes you suspicious in my eyes. But I know dedicated is the new addicted.
    Oh and someone who want to be an a... should get used to be treated like on :-)

    @Galactic-Geek is it only 75% for your own loot?
    That would disencourage players to form alliances with new low-level players.
    Official link or something?
    Some turn in less valuable booty or just turn in nothing while you do.
    100/ 50 is a good deal imo.

    Alliances are an option!
    Options are allways good, nobody is forced.
    Cooperation is allways smarter and better than competition.
    There are smart pirates and there are dumb pirates.
    The smart work together, the dumb have a too big ego and just want to see blood.
    If you can i recommend to cooperate, but nevertheless allways keep an eye on them.
    We never get rid of aggressive players on the seas.
    And it's a good thing, because yin and yang and such.
    Keeps game thrilling and every win and turned in loot something special, because it's never obvious.

    And if you go for shootin' and lootin' because it's fun, you mustn't complain for more enemies and bigger challenge, if you are a real Piratelegend.

    At least, the amount of playtime necessary to become PL is balanced by the measure of majority and not those who smoke content up like nothing.
    Because one is "dedicated" to gaming or SoT it's not that Rare is dedicated to only please a few player or especially you.
    The masses dictate what's mediocre and the best for the most and not only few. So commendations, prices and more are adjusted.
    And it was clear from day one there will be expansions what make it easier to level. I can see a shitstorm about Cargo Runs make it easier to get to 50 Merchs facepalm.
    This is a game not meritocracy, although many of you cannot separate this.

  • they sank
    Ship Mate

    @zaannox I wholeheartedly agree with you. It wouldn’t be such a huge kick in the kiwis to early PL and early Athena 10 achievers if Rare would’ve at least released content that appealed to the accomplished player. If alliances didn’t exist and the athena cap was 20, it would at least give advanced players something to do while not letting the achievement be exploited through joining alliances. I feel like I’m in a bad marriage at this point, like i fell in love with the wrong game but the kids are too young and I’m committed at this point to achieving the small remainder of commendations. I go to the forums for marriage therapy but the wife wants to appeal to the new players and she’s in control of the finances. Is Rare being pressured from Microsoft’s marketing department? Yes. Is Rare being pressured from Microsoft’s marketing department to kill the long-term appeal of the game so that players move on and purchase other watered-down mediocre games in an unending loop of spend, spend, spend? Well, we all know the evil nature of marketing. I loved this game from the start because of it’s unique pvp system where one must prioritize managing their boat during pvp scenarios, it really makes a natural build toward epic moments, i.e. yay, their boat sank or shucks, our boat sank. My hope is that maybe Steam or another developer releases a pirate/boating themed game that appeals to adults and long-term reward systems with minimal bug issues and no massive corporate incentives nipping at the heels of a developers integrity. I also just ate a delicious meatball sandwich.

  • Jacknife Wilson
    Marauder
    Insider

    I definitely see the cause for the perspective on this topic. But, personally, I actually disagree on two major points:

    First, who cares how fast the next guy gets this or that done. There literally is no effect on other players who well or how badly the next guy is doing. It might alter the players game play style to pursue more PvP or something but honestly it's rather wholly ignorable to be sure.

    Secondly, I can only speak for myself here... but I haven't allied since the alliance was needed for bilge rats. Same with every add to the game. I make use of it while it's notable... beyond that I go back to default play asap. Why hunt Meg? I don't. Why fly the Reapers Mark? I don't. Why do the cursed sails events? I might but usually I'm busy on an Athenas so I won't.... and so on.

    The truth on paper is certain. If everyone on a server allied everyone would win.

    Yet, I never do.

    Heck we had some guy flying an alliance flag park his sloop right next to my brig while I was involved in a skull fort... so we fired on the guy. He got bent out of shape because we fired, and before we chose to stop firing he started screaming insults and got all mad as if we owed him an alliance just because he flew the alliance flag.

    Hey, I'm sorry... If I want an alliance I'll seek one out, but I don't usually want one. If approached properly and with the right tone I might join an alliance. Depends on if I feel I can trust you, most of the time, I don't.

    So no. I could care if every player got bumped to PL and maxed Athena's tomorrow... I couldn't care less if everyone were given 342billion coins tomorrow. All except me! I play the game for something to do with friends, and how I play is entirely up to me. I don't need some most logical approach algorithm, or false sense of accomplishment setting me apart from other gamers.

    Not in SoT.

    I am not actually advocating for additions of EZ modes, I enjoy a bit of a challenge, but I still have to say... who cares? Whatever is going on in the lives of the players across the seas from me, literally makes no difference to me in the least, I play how I want... not how I'm told. I don't even make the best choices when I play and purposefully find myself doing things that slow me down such as avoiding tap n go speed runs, avoiding merchant cheese, avoiding alliances unless needed or specifically asked by someone I feel I actually want to associate with, and so on.

    So I don't see why any of this matters. None of it has affected me in the least. I've been in perhaps ONE alliance that actually paid off and ran multiple Athenas, maybe 2... that's how few.. I can't actually recall...

    So I fail to see the issue. Might make me a tool, but I really don't see why it matters?

  • Dekeita
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @stundorn @Galactic-Geek

    It's still 100/50

  • Ruigtand NL
    Master
    Insider

    Only play merchant. My goldhoarder is now 47 from allies and order of souls is 42.. ally should not up my reputation but only bring gold.. but why care since i play merchant i have no use for gold or souls reputation.

  • MrBobRoss87
    Marauder

    I havent read anybody elses posts out of laziness but im sure they all make good points for and against alliances and in agreement and disagreement with your comment. My view is that it almost functions as a glitch. How can one crew get 50% when the other gets 100%. Thats 150%. It makes no sense. I like your idea of bigger the alliance smaller the pot. I think this is fair. If you paint someones house you price for the job, not the amount of painters doing it. I do enjoy alliances though. Its the uncertainty of knowing if someone will double cross you. I think maybe it should work on a scale. The longer you are in an alliance the more the scale tips in favour of the other crew when you cash in. All your loot is worth 100%. But in an alliance every say 5 minutes it devalues by a few % until its evens at 50/50. Either you'll stay with each other for a long time to collect as much loot between you to cash in after a good long voyage and get a respectable amount or turn on each other when you see the scale tipping in the other crews favour. Im aware there is always the option to leave an alliance but then in these circumstances you "Go Rogue" and still appear on your former allies map for 5 minutes.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @dekeita said in Alliances are actually killing this game:

    @stundorn @Galactic-Geek

    It's still 100/50

    If that's the case, when is it going to be changed, if ever? Did they decide not to do it? When they mentioned it, they did say that it was to test it out and that it might get changed back...

  • Luci6396
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @zaannox alliances saved the game for me. before there was no reason to sail with anyone as you couldnt really share treasure or quests. there was no reason to do a fort together. no reason to do anything cooperative.

    i like how it is, BUT i agree its not exactly balanced. I would say making it an 80% turn in crew / 50% allies would be more fair and more enticing for people to screw each other over at the end. I also wouldnt mind a limit on how many can be in an alliance. Like 3 ship limit. That would keep whole servers from allying up for easy money/rep and it would make interesting battles where you have 3 v 3 or 2 v 2 v 2 or 2 v 1 v 2 v 1 lol who knows. i just really like the idea of running into rival alliances and having all out wars on each other. i mean they probably got a lot of treasure together so why not haha. and thats more likely if there is a limit to how many can join. otherwise they may as well make one huge alliance

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