Absolutely genius. Alliances get put in to try and bring crews together to go on adventures, take down skeleton ships, and have a blast at the game... But you allow people to just leave alliances and sink alliance member ships? Absolutely brilliant way to bring the community together. By dividing it and making new ways for griefers to ruin the game. Bold strategy.
So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...
We did this just last night! It was epic! The sloop chased one of our Brigs all the way to Daggerstooth to get revenge but we curled back West and ambushed it with our other Brigantine. Had their crew not been so greedy and actually asked about the split instead of trying to hoard most of it they'd have shared in the cash. Instead they got nothing for their disrespectful actions as it was "Us" who destroyed the ships while they gobbled up the loot! Great times and a fantastic "add" by RARE!
@bern-dimall said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
We did this just last night! It was epic! The sloop chased one of our Brigs all the way to Daggerstooth to get revenge but we curled back West and ambushed it with our other Brigantine. Had their crew not been so greedy and actually asked about the split instead of trying to hoard most of it they'd have shared in the cash. Instead they got nothing for their disrespectful actions as it was "Us" who destroyed the ships while they gobbled up the loot! Great times and a fantastic "add" by RARE!
and see, you're part of the problem. lol
Not really griefing , it's the same mechanics of the game, all that's been done is you share loot, quests and see each other on the world map and you get a nice little flag. In the announcement trailer released yesterday the voice over says something along the lines of "you can form an alliance ....no matter how temporary"as one guy kills another and runs off with a chest. Nothing has changed in the core of the game
@xxxxnoodlexxxx NEWSFLASH, there were unofficial alliances in this game before the Cursed Sails update was released; there were so many occasions of groups of galleons teaming up to take down a larger threat, i.e the Megalodon or another ship. The only difference between officially making an alliance with someone and unofficially teaming up with another ship is the fact that you get 50% of the gold when an allied ship turns in a chest. And look, it may sound cheesy but I'd like to remind you that this is Sea of Thieves, not Sea of Friends; from the get, go the developers were saying that the crew-bond is sacred but that mutiny and plunder would be through the interactions with other players.
There will ALWAYS be people who will break alliances.
There will ALWAYS be people who attempt to take all of the loot for themselves.
The fun in this game comes from the uneasy feeling you get when teaming with other players; they could be scheming in party chat behind my back OR they could be genuinly nice people who split everything straight down the middle. If I knew that every time I made an alliance with another player that they couldn't potentially kill me or break the alliance at a moments notice, then I wouldn't be having any fun in this game. For a game with so little content already, we shouldn't be trying to take away player interactions.It works in both your favor to be in the alliance the whole time with no backstabbing.
STORY
I just did 2 Athena missions yesterday via 2 different galleons. Even had a brig full of legend idiots we sunk who tried to get us to turn on the galleon we were allied with.
I threw an athena on their galleon they went on and did it. doing the skelly crews in between. 2 athenas done in the same time we could have done 1.Now lets shoot a hypothetical situation out there. if 1 crew would have left thinking oh they already cashed in their Athena we'll just leave to cash ours in. you literally don't get anymore loot just by leaving the alliance to cash in. you only get less loot when someone else cashes in for you. we turned our athenas in for 4600 gold. when they turned in we got 2k gold. its fair play and works in everyone interest to just be allies. however turn in your own missions (;
@xxxxnoodlexxxx exactly! I've already been betrayed twice since the release as some as*holes break the alliance last minute while we're gathering the loot and destroyed everything, an idea i had, was to make it so both ships would have to agree on breaking the alliance, so they could leave peacefully!
@poke-dude-200 that was not a smart idé (just because you brake they thieves in us all that way) betrayal needs to be in the game or we loose the thrill in it
What Rare is trying to do is giving you tools to let you experience new pirate adventures....Betrayal will and has always been a part of the Pirate Lore. From Blacksails towards the old " Treasure Island " movies, there was always a cullpritt who betrayed the " good "guys...Just sailing a calm Sea would be dull for some pirates so a little bit more bold and dastardly options have come towards our Sea now....Personally , i'm making myfirst steps into these alliances ...i was alienating from the player base since i have little time to play and rather play with crews i know and where i know my place but in all honesty ,these Alliances have something ...They can be really great sometimes and those times that everything seems a bit betrayal like , well , i just take that along, after all , we are all real people and we can and will sometimes act unpredictable...And THAT is just one of those beautiful things Rare was able to trigger in their game...
@xxxxnoodlexxxx said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
Absolutely genius. Alliances get put in to try and bring crews together to go on adventures, take down skeleton ships, and have a blast at the game... But you allow people to just leave alliances and sink alliance member ships? Absolutely brilliant way to bring the community together. By dividing it and making new ways for griefers to ruin the game. Bold strategy.
Sinking ships is not griefing.
Pretty much what @clumsy-george here said, let's compare a SoT play through to a Pirate Movie. Good optimistic guy joins a crew, crew is the same as him, then they join an alliance with another crew. But what's this? The other crew is not so much the same as them and are probably greedy evil people ready to backstab them. Everything goes well, they get the loot and all is in celebration! But then the evil crew strikes and takes the booty, leaving the good guy and his crew in ruins. But here's the thing that separates SoT and a pirate movie, being good isn't good for you. In the movie the good guys would probably find a way to overcome the bad guys and win in the end. But in SoT, you could do the same cept… You have to be skilled as well. Skilled enough to kill the other pirate and keep your ship afloat. Just because you think you're the good guy, offering and accepting alliances, doesn't mean you're safe. In the movie the good guys are skilled as well, but if they weren't and they succeeded anyway, just because they're the 'good guys', is just bad writing. So before you decide to feel safe with strangers in SoT, try to have the skills to defend yourself from them and probably think about not complaining about it in the forums; rethink your decision to blame Rare for enabling 'griefers' when there is none in this case.
@spunkus-skunkus said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
@xxxxnoodlexxxx NEWSFLASH, there were unofficial alliances in this game before the Cursed Sails update was released; there were so many occasions of groups of galleons teaming up to take down a larger threat, i.e the Megalodon or another ship. The only difference between officially making an alliance with someone and unofficially teaming up with another ship is the fact that you get 50% of the gold when an allied ship turns in a chest. And look, it may sound cheesy but I'd like to remind you that this is Sea of Thieves, not Sea of Friends; from the get, go the developers were saying that the crew-bond is sacred but that mutiny and plunder would be through the interactions with other players.
There will ALWAYS be people who will break alliances.
There will ALWAYS be people who attempt to take all of the loot for themselves.
The fun in this game comes from the uneasy feeling you get when teaming with other players; they could be scheming in party chat behind my back OR they could be genuinly nice people who split everything straight down the middle. If I knew that every time I made an alliance with another player that they couldn't potentially kill me or break the alliance at a moments notice, then I wouldn't be having any fun in this game. For a game with so little content already, we shouldn't be trying to take away player interactions.This probably sums everything up really well.
I know we've been betrayed a couple of times and took our revenge on the ship that did so, at the end of a Cursed sails battle. These possibilities just serve to extend the range of experiences we have on the seas. If you couldn't betray an alliance, it'd be a fairly stale and predictable option?
Not had this issue yet, thankfully. All the alliances we've joined have been very cool and co-operative.
While breaking an alliance after the battle and attacking the others is a bit bad form, it's a pirate game and it even gets mentioned in the trailer for Cursed Sails so I wouldn't be surprised if a crew did it. It's certainly not griefing.
Personally, I couldn't care less about the loot though, as long as we get the commendations.
@trickrtreat01 said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
@xxxxnoodlexxxx said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
Absolutely genius. Alliances get put in to try and bring crews together to go on adventures, take down skeleton ships, and have a blast at the game... But you allow people to just leave alliances and sink alliance member ships? Absolutely brilliant way to bring the community together. By dividing it and making new ways for griefers to ruin the game. Bold strategy.
Sinking ships is not griefing.
I agree that sinking ships in general isn't, i think some confuse pvp with griefing howeve I think if you join someomes alliance and try to sink them during the skelly fights that does fall under griefing. We had someome join our alliance in middle of the last waves of skelly battles last night and all they did was continuously ram our ship on purpose. Got to the point where we had to attack them as well.
Just the other day my buddy decided to ally with a galleon sailing upon us when we were turning in chickens over at Ancient Spire. They were surprised by the EXP from the golden chicken sales, but that aside I knew they were bad news. I should've also warned my friend of the bad feeling I had about them, but I fled the server instead, some friend I am : (
He messages me about 5 minutes later revealing that they did exactly as I had expected, raided our ship for supplies and blasted holes in the sloop. Should've warned him, but I was a coward.
@realstyli said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
Not had this issue yet, thankfully. All the alliances we've joined have been very cool and co-operative.
While breaking an alliance after the battle and attacking the others is a bit bad form, it's a pirate game and it even gets mentioned in the trailer for Cursed Sails so I wouldn't be surprised if a crew did it. It's certainly not griefing.
Personally, I couldn't care less about the loot though, as long as we get the commendations.
Not sure if the infamous "its a pirate game " works in this situation. Real pirates who formed an alliance wouldn't turn on eachother and try to sink an allied ship during battle . Pirates often times did team up with one another to take on naval vessels.
Im on same page as you though with the loot. I could careless about it. I find it sinks too fast anyways. I just want the commendation.
I feel this is another perspective issue. Everyone is right based on how they are looking at alliances.
I like that the ability to betray exists on the grounds that the threat/caution remains in the world but I more see the problem being that they should have just let us continue to make unofficial alliances without a mechanic. As far as grouping up for events I still find myself having to server hop which is a major turn off to participating for me. With the ability to group up not seeming to increase in my experience it just seems like they added a bait system for pvp. Perhaps not a bad thing but it increases the caution/distrust versus bringing me 'together' with anybody.
Throw in the unlucky potential to be 'join or die' recruited and it's damned if you do damned if you don't in some cases.
Ultimately with the server system as well as the freedoms we have this game will and shall always be under an "Experiences May Vary" disclaimer.
Yeah, sadly karma is real and we just had a "bad alliance" tonight.
They (in a Galleon) tried to sink our Brigantine after the battle. We managed to get two skeleton chests, silks and the skeleton captain's skull though, and we sailed off to a far away outpost knowing they wouldn't catch us or risk breaking the alliance themselves. We then broke the alliance just before handing in our loot (but after they'd already cashed the rest).
Hate doing it but what goes around, comes around, and if they didn't try to sink our ship we wouldn't have stabbed them in the back.
"Hurr durr this is sea of thieves not sea of friends"
"tHaT's WhAt DuH rEaL pIrAtEs DiD"
Pirates didn't have to keep a community thriving and happy so Microsoft didn't cut its losses and pull the plug on reality.
Pirates also didn't act like what many of you are claiming they did. Black sails, treasure island, PotC are all romanticized pirates. Quit thinking fiction is historically accurate.
Don't you understand this is the exact intentions of Rare a literally the point of the game? They've said it themselves. They'll never intentionally introduce a mechanic that does not still give room for scummy piracy.
And those saying it's better for both to stay in that alliance than not, that's not entirely true.. You still have to split the loot, and which means what loot you give them you are only getting 50% of so that means if you betray the alliance and take their share then guess what? You get 100% of the loot.
So in the end a betrayal is still beneficial unless you just plan on allying up and grinding out voyages all day, which does has it's benefits. But when it comes to things like skeleton ships and fortresses, it will almost always be better (albiet a LOT more risky) to try to take all the loot yourself.
@xrekkoffx said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
They need to make more incentive to stay in the alliance, like if everyone stays you all get like 10% more EXP and gold. And it should be each crew gets 100% payout. Make alliances good and people will not break them.
So you tell yourself..
I'm more than positive even if alliance paid out 100% to both parties (as dumb and broken as that would be) because betrayal is a big point in this game, you'd still see people breaking alliance and cashing in, and something tells me we'd see half of you complaining even harder about it.
Alliances were never intended to be the be all end all to hostile engagement. Sorry not sorry that alliances didn't turn the game into pure PvE friendly town.
And sorry OP.. not treating the alliance system as absolute law is hardly griefing. It's no different than making a word of mouth alliance pre-alliance mechanic and betraying the ship that helped you at the skullfort. Only difference now is people are upset because they get betrayed and denied what they consider to be atleast a guaranteed 50% payout.
@jimmy-voorhees said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
"Hurr durr this is sea of thieves not sea of friends"
"tHaT's WhAt DuH rEaL pIrAtEs DiD"
Pirates didn't have to keep a community thriving and happy so Microsoft didn't cut its losses and pull the plug on reality.
Pirates also didn't act like what many of you are claiming they did. Black sails, treasure island, PotC are all romanticized pirates. Quit thinking fiction is historically accurate.
Right? Many pirates were actually previously normal law bidding citizens who simply turned to piracy to get away from the low pay and harsh conditions of the navy at the time.
I think a lot of people use the "its a pirate game" to justify scummy gaming behavior such as "hur dur dur I just sunk your sloop with my four man crew while it was docked at an island I didnt need to go because its a pirate game git gud docked sloop hur hur argh". Now that is pretty much the behavior of a modern day couch pirate not a historical real pirate.
@combatxkitty said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
@jimmy-voorhees said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
"Hurr durr this is sea of thieves not sea of friends"
"tHaT's WhAt DuH rEaL pIrAtEs DiD"
Pirates didn't have to keep a community thriving and happy so Microsoft didn't cut its losses and pull the plug on reality.
Pirates also didn't act like what many of you are claiming they did. Black sails, treasure island, PotC are all romanticized pirates. Quit thinking fiction is historically accurate.
Right? Many pirates were actually previously normal law bidding citizens who simply turned to piracy to get away from the low pay and harsh conditions of the navy at the time.
I think a lot of people use the "its a pirate game" to justify scummy gaming behavior such as "hur dur dur I just sunk your sloop with my four man crew while it was docked at an island I didnt need to go because its a pirate game git gud docked sloop hur hur argh". Now that is pretty much the behavior of a modern day couch pirate not a historical real pirate.
I didn't realize we were playing a game on the History Channel.
"Hur durr dur"
The fact that people still get like this over being sunk with the counter argument "pirates actually weren't that crazy" is hilarious. You're playing a game. Life/death mean as little as having your empty sloop sunk. Everyone by now should be used to this "be ready for anything" environment.
These complaints are just as "hur durr" as the "issue" you complain about, and seeing people get all "hurr hurr durr dur" when describing why they got sunk says more about their own temperament than anything else.
@tre-oni lol I know we arnt however some people who say "this is a pirate game" seem to assert that pirates actually behaved like this to justify scummy behavior and that to me is hilarious since in reality they didnt. Now the point of my post was to merely point that out so no need to be triggered by that.
Once the campaign is done, player use of the alliance system will evolve, I think. With the insertion of loot into the event (this wasn't in others), there is an incentive to break the alliance and grab all the loot to ensure you get full value for everything. This feels counter to what the devs claim to want to do with community events, but... there ya go.
We did a battle and ended up with none of the loot on our ship, I swam to the Brig that had it and stole one just to make sure we got 100% of something. It certainly created some chaos and tension.
In another instance, we had an alliance with 4 ships and after the battle was done and we shared the loot (we had all of it with us), the alliance wanted to do the next region's battle, but had hours to kill. The Legends on our ship dropped Athena voyages on each ship so that we could all cash in on 4 Athena voyages while we waited.
@combatxkitty said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
@tre-oni lol I know we arnt however some people who say "this is a pirate game" seem to assert that pirates actually behaved like this to justify scummy behavior and that to me is hilarious since in reality they didnt. Now the point of my post was to merely point that out so no need to be triggered by that.
And the people who counter state the proper pirate history tend to assert that because its a pirate game and going by proper pirate history that all pirates in turn should then be wise, life-preserving, businessmen who wouldn't dare risk their ship or life chasing another ship, or sinking and killing, because irl being tried for murder sucks.
Both arguments are flimsy, but the "its a pirate game" stands up much better with the pirate fantasy the game is built around, than "pirates didnt act this way irl"
@bran-the-ent Seems like the ship who does the most work in the battle gets the least treasure. We were in an alliance and were the only ones who didnt sink and we did the lion share of the skelly ship sinking while the other ship just dove for the sinking treasure. Once we got to an outpost they gave us a couple items lol. It was late and we wernt going to get into a war over it, I mean we just really wanted the commendations but man some gamers are stingy with their virtual loot. Atleast they didnt try breaking the alliance though. I mean I dont mind the suspense of being able to break an alliance, that doesn't bother me, only thing that annoys me are people who are in your alliance who try to sink you during the skelly fights.
@xrekkoffx said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
They need to make more incentive to stay in the alliance, like if everyone stays you all get like 10% more EXP and gold. And it should be each crew gets 100% payout. Make alliances good and people will not break them.
This would make alliances op. I personally think they are already too generous with the payout instead of making it an even split.
@combatxkitty You always want to position yourself to be near the Named Captain's ship when she sinks - this makes it easier to ensure you at least get some of the loot on your ship.
With the last instance I mentioned where I stole a piece. They didn't break the alliance either - we were sure they would, but they didn't. They wanted their piece of that chest. We did end up in a battle after turning in the chest, though... and we sank them. It was an extremely brittle alliance throughout the battle.
@tre-oni said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
@combatxkitty said in So you designed a way to make friends by making a new way to grief...:
@tre-oni lol I know we arnt however some people who say "this is a pirate game" seem to assert that pirates actually behaved like this to justify scummy behavior and that to me is hilarious since in reality they didnt. Now the point of my post was to merely point that out so no need to be triggered by that.
And the people who counter state the proper pirate history tend to assert that because its a pirate game and going by proper pirate history that all pirates in turn should then be wise, life-preserving, businessmen who wouldn't dare risk their ship or life chasing another ship, or sinking and killing, because irl being tried for murder sucks.
Both arguments are flimsy, but the "its a pirate game" stands up much better with the pirate fantasy the game is built around, than "pirates didnt act this way irl"
Neither stand up. I dont think people should have to behave how real pirates did in this game at all because you are right this is a cartoony fantasy pirate world where we get shot out of cannons and talk to zombie parrots. With that said im just a pirate history nerd girl who thinks its silly when people use the "pirate game" cop out to excuse certain behavior, its like just own it.
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