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Sea of Griefers
How is this even a question? Seriously? We're actually making lists of what is and what isn't griefing? Sure, in some cases there's a bit of a gray area but even then it's handled the same ways.
Griefing has a pretty active definition that shouldn't be too hard to understand:
(Source Wikipedia) A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.
Since even throwing your team mates treasure overboard is a potentially intended action available in the game that isn't actually an example of griefing.
That's obnoxious, harassing, irritating, insipid, and more. But it can be prevented and there are tools we have to overcome it (with exceptions on sloops that lack an ability to brig and therefore rather falls into griefing by a shade).
Actual griefing comes in the form of things like, you guessed it: Spawn killing...
But notice I only use the phrase spawn killing. I'm not actually saying killing you once you spawn in and can act upon the attack. I am talking about how your model and it's ability to be interacted with and harmed appears on your ship for enemies to attack and kill before you've even finished loading in past the black screen. It's not even the one little second or so.. in some cases the black screen lasts a long time who knows why it's uneven in that regard but when you spawn in.... dead...
Yea that's griefing.
But even then that's only if the players are taking advantage of and aware that this is the case. Awareness of the effort is the key. Griefing doesn't entirely require breaks in the game as above, simply exploitation of the systems to provide unrecoverable advantage.
It's that unrecoverable or unable to be countered element that makes the distinction.
Other than that we're just talking about fair play and harassment. If harassment is inescapable... yea it starts to sail into the realm of griefing but if all it takes is effort to overcome and avoid thereafter? Nope.. still not griefing.
Getting chased for an hour with tons of loot? Sail by outposts or stop and fight. While sailing by sell what you can while not stopping the ship and mermaid back or die. If they catch you and you lose out? That's just luck or skill issues not griefing. Once all is said and done scuttle to escape the pursuant vessel or swap servers, the tools are there.
Digging up a chest and some smarty who was camping in sleep mode on the island somewhere suddenly appears like a wild Zubat to kill you can claim the treasure? Not griefing... Do they take time while your recovering from death to get on your ship and look at your map points and predict where you'll go next then repeat the measure? Not griefing. Do they do this all day until you rage quit and they've done nothing but steal your loot all day? Not griefing.
But if they chase you around or charge back into a fight for no effort and use the 'scuttle bug' to arrive at a closer island to recommit to the combat and do this constantly?
Yea, that's actually griefing, particularly if done to harass or annoy. If they sink you once and leave you alone after that it actually shifts OUT of being griefing and now is more of exploiting bugs issue instead.
Making any more sense now?
Seriously lists? Every situation has the potential for redefinition. The Spawn camp of today may not be the same as the spawn camp of tomorrow.
@bern-dimall said in Sea of Griefers:
I got beat down with a Target add the other day! Nobody is saying anything about the spousal abuse happening world wide to Sea of Thieve pirates!đ
Target Add?,, curiosity.....not sure if wanna know...
@rokusot said in Sea of Griefers:
Griefing is a great thing for this game, it is the way pirates get a certain feeling after they destroy everybody, thats what keeps me playing.
Gross. You keep that feeling...to yourself please.
The disagreement seems to stem from two different types of griefing - within the crew and with other crews. Naturally the two are very different.
Within the crew griefing is anything done that would make a reasonable crew wish to kick you from the crew. It is a social construct plain and simple. Throwing chests overboard or killing animals youâve gathered - yes you âcanâ do it, but it is
griefing.With other crews, it is anything done that has no potential of rewarding your own crew. Spawn killing has a place when fighting. Chasing for hours - would only happen if the chasee has something to lose that your crew gains from. Fort key, yeah chase for 2 hours and it isnât griefing, or camp the fort, no problem. Some solo sloop with only animals, well if you know thatâs all heâs got and youâre just chasing for the sake of a laugh, yeah I could see that being griefing (say you managed to board and saw he only had chickens for instance - virtually worthless to you).
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
@mountainriderak and @Kashaarafall There is griefing in Sea of Thieves and almost everyone agrees on that; the things that people are up in arms about however is the capacity of enemy crews to grief another player's ship. There are some people who consider grieifing to be stealing other players loot, others may think that spawn killing is griefing as well... but those who are logical in the community understand that the only griefing that exists is between players on the same crew.
What Griefing IS
- A member of your own crew is dropping the anchor randomly.
- Someone on your crew is dropping chests overboard while sailing.
- A person on your crew is blowing up gunpowder kegs below deck.
- Your animals are getting killed because a player on your crew is killing them intentionally.
What Griefing ISN'T
- Getting hunted by the same ship for hours.
- Getting killed by an enemy crew as soon as you spawn in on your ship (spawn killing).
- Getting your chests stolen by another crew.
- Someone rocking up to the skull fort on the last wave and stealing the key from your crew.
Now you may call this rant uneccessary but you've written so little in your threads that it's impossible to distinguish what you consider griefing. But @MountainRiderAK, referring to your original statement, there have been no posts on this forum out-right denying the existence of griefing, just clarification for the definition.
Nailed it. This is exactly the differences between the two.
Even though certain things may feel like you have been griefed such as spawn camping there are very few solutions to this and it is part of "finishing the job" when it comes to sinking another ship.
If they were to add a 3 second "unkillable spawn immunity" it might actually ruin the game. They could add more spawn locations on sloops but the boat is very small not sure what they could really do there and I will never be in favor of spawn immunity on respawns. They are on your boat and its going to be an uphill battle for you upon respawning.
It may cause you alot of grief to be spawn camped but it isn't griefing.
@haydnsym45 said in Sea of Griefers:
Within the crew griefing is anything done that would make a reasonable crew wish to kick you from the crew. It is a social construct plain and simple. Throwing chests overboard or killing animals youâve gathered - yes you âcanâ do it, but it is
griefing.I agree in the remark that it's designed to harass any annoy without any obvious means to protect oneself from that. Much like how playing old hard rap on the chats constantly in party despite complaints is griefing - particularly when there is no recourse.
With other crews, it is anything done that has no potential of rewarding your own crew.
That's part of it in some cases but not all. This isn't a purely factual statement. It's not wrong but it's not entirely right either in my view. I mean taking 3 steps towards another player doesn't reward anyone... is that griefing? This is a bit too literal a definition for what is an unspecifically defined polymorphic term.
Spawn killing has a place when fighting.
Sure it does! It is a valid tactic. With one exception in my example above I may not have been directly clear. If the enemy team is taking advantage of their targets inability to load in and live through it and is using it to harass the team versus simply PvP'ing and watching for players to load in and killing them asap... then it's not simply a valid tactic. I mean in CoD for example knowing where a player will spawn is a measured tactical action - but say in WoW that's not a tactic that's chasing someone around for no reason and preventing them from playing the game with no gain other than to annoy.
Chasing for hours - would only happen if the chasee has something to lose that your crew gains from. Fort key, yeah chase for 2 hours and it isnât griefing, or camp the fort, no problem. Some solo sloop with only animals, well if you know thatâs all heâs got and youâre just chasing for the sake of a laugh, yeah I could see that being griefing (say you managed to board and saw he only had chickens for instance - virtually worthless to you).
Yea chasing wouldn't fall into the category of griefing. Even if there was no benefit other than simply giving chase for the sake of chase. But... if the players were sailing around chasing piping obnoxious music or words and never sinking the enemy by choice... nor coming in range.. simply being there to annoy.. yea that's griefing.
The common theme here? An effort to merely harass or annoy which is potentially endless and inescapable.. that's griefing.
@blooddoll22 - Iâve got no specific beef with anything youâve said - the spawn kill thing, when youâre trying to get the guy to scuttle, not griefing.
The âthree stepsâ is an absurd situation - a reasonable person wouldnât see it as griefing. The other situations you mentioned more clearly have no gain on the side taking the actions and thus qualify as griefing as far as Iâm concerned.
@haydnsym45 yea man, guess I'm sounding a bit hostile today... another thread kinda set me off :P
I always have a patronizing tone as well that never helps.
Your right it's an absurd example. I actually committed to that on purpose if only to showcase perspectives and how for many what is called griefing ... isn't. I mean I've chased players down for long periods of time despite their desires to avoid me. I hadn't even tried sinking them.. just screwing off and having fun without asking in advance and likely at their cost.
Not griefing.
I'll continue though, to stand in my position that griefing is essentially creating unavoidable position of harassment which is undefeatable thank to purposeful exploitation of game mechanics.
@bern-dimall said in Sea of Griefers:
@dragonsire2016 A rolled up department store advertisement.đ
lol I get that part...I meant more why that particular one, or what did you do to earn the wraith lol
@personalc0ffee said in Sea of Griefers:
@spunkus-skunkus I said no such things.
But consider this example. You chase a ship for hours, that you know has nothing to be gained, there is no treasure and no fight to be had but you manage to catch and then board this ship, and patch the holes so it does not sink. Then you proceed to kill that crew over while trash talking, mocking them, etc and over again, until they either leave the game or scuttle.
There is nothing to be gained in this scenario, you've already taken the supplies or they burned through them after a few rounds of boarding and sending them to the Ferry. The pirates in question would be doing this simply to ruin this person's experience for their own fun.
It's how they are getting their jollies and it is abhorrent and despicable behavior that does not belong in the sea.
That is an example of griefing outside of one's crew.
There's no excuse for that behavior, don't care how bored they are and I've seen it happen.
I guess I just look at it from the other side. If I have nothing on my boat, am being chased, and do not wish to have the thrill of trying to get away... why don't I just scuttle and move on? If you don't scuttle and have nothing on your boat then you wanted the engagement to continue because otherwise, you would just... scuttle. In this situation, the player being chased and killed has no one to blame but themselves, they chose to continue the fight beyond their means to do so or their enjoyment in it.
TLDR; if you do not scuttle your ship other players will think you want to fight and/or have something of value.
@strinder - ânothingâ is a relative term. Absolutely nothing, sure scuttle. A ship full of animals trying to sell at that one outpost... thatâs a tough scuttle given the time invested. And still ânothingâ to the person chasing you since they sell so low without the mission.
@haydnsym45 I would admit that you have a tough decision to make in that situation. But what are video games if not a series of interesting decisions?
Personally, I wouldn't engage an opponent if I had a ship full of animals but do drive-bys on outposts and sell the most expensive that way before turning to engage. But even if I did not have the opportunity to do so and they attacked knowing my cargo I wouldn't consider it griefing.
After all one could take the crates and then go get a quest that will (if lucky) match what you have and turn them in for huge profit that way. It is a little more work for the attackers but they could possibly work it into their patrol so it's not that far out of their way as they went about their other business.
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
@mountainriderak and @Kashaarafall There is griefing in Sea of Thieves and almost everyone agrees on that; the things that people are up in arms about however is the capacity of enemy crews to grief another player's ship. There are some people who consider grieifing to be stealing other players loot, others may think that spawn killing is griefing as well... but those who are logical in the community understand that the only griefing that exists is between players on the same crew.
What Griefing IS
- A member of your own crew is dropping the anchor randomly.
- Someone on your crew is dropping chests overboard while sailing.
- A person on your crew is blowing up gunpowder kegs below deck.
- Your animals are getting killed because a player on your crew is killing them intentionally.
What Griefing ISN'T
- Getting hunted by the same ship for hours.
- Getting killed by an enemy crew as soon as you spawn in on your ship (spawn killing).
- Getting your chests stolen by another crew.
- Someone rocking up to the skull fort on the last wave and stealing the key from your crew.
Now you may call this rant uneccessary but you've written so little in your threads that it's impossible to distinguish what you consider griefing. But @MountainRiderAK, referring to your original statement, there have been no posts on this forum out-right denying the existence of griefing, just clarification for the definition.
This entire post should be made something EVERY new player to the game MUST read.
@a-cranky-eskimo said in Sea of Griefers:
next time I see a ship Iâll kill them once and then wait another hour to see the next one... or I could have some fun playing the game and getting into some small arms combat. If anyone really thinks the main goal for most people when they pvp in this way is to have fun specifically at the other persons expense, its mechanically true, because that is literally what the game is, But it isnât the persons conscious goal. I hear more toxicity from angry losing crews who think they are entitled to friendship in a game called sea of thieves, than I see anything toxic from people who spawn camp or board ships just to fight in small arms combat.
Killing people and stealing while laughing about it in real life is abhorrent behavior, in a video game with a large focus on pvp and theft though? Itâs called playing the game, and you donât need stats or a screen that says âyou won!â (Or lost) for pvp to be more fun than standing around doing âworkâ to sail and play pirate dress up/errand boy simulator...
I have patched enemy ships to continue to kill them and camp their crows nest, for fun alone, you can call me a Griefer, I call it the most fun this game offers besides a real ship encounter where both sides are aggressive.
I know Iâm not a bad person irl for doing this, and I also know that Iâm not that important that if someone did this to me that I should tell them that I had a bad time so that makes them a bad person and their behavior needs to stop... Thatâs laughable... If you are sunk and your loot stolen and donât want to engage further there is literally no reason not to switch servers besides being stubborn and spiteful about the loss. In which case just scuttle instead of leave, stock up on some cannonballs, and sink them! If you canât do that donât point your finger and cry âgriefer you terrible bad people how could you :0â say âwhat led to that conclusion that I can fixâ
By its loosest definition half of pvp encounters end up with someone being âgriefedâ, does this mean that the person who had fun With it is evil or something? No it means they came to the table with the right attitude about playing video games in the first place, and knew what type of game they we ooo re getting into.
How people act in a video game says a lot about their true selves âbehind the masksâ they wear in public every day.
A person that finds fun in the suffering of others, either IRL or in-game, is not a good person at heart.
@itsporkchopfu not when they are role playing a pirate, the thing is realizing that none of it is real. Have you ever stolen anything in this game?(I would assume it was fun or you wouldnât be playing the game) If so you have caused the other crew suffering, you must just be an awful person! See the problem here? And my point was more that this is just the nature of the game, the person causing the suffering rarely is doing so for sufferings sake.
And nothing that happens to you in a video game is anything close to real suffering, in real life, you know where real morals come into play?
To equate someoneâs video game behavior or in game moral compasss to their real behavior and moral compass is just ridiculous and unnecessary. Unless you are worried about the skeletons perspective. Thatâs real life to them guys. Lol..
At the best Iâll give you is that someone does have real life problems, but that might be them getting bullied themselves, or they just have anger issues for whatever personal reasons, it dosnt excuse toxic chat or anything like that, but if these people want to be aggressive in a game I donât see why not if thatâs how the game is designed to be. You can still have anger issues and be good at heart, is my point. Who is anyone to judge others especially through an online game, just based on behavior. Iâm sure there are some people who are really great people in real life who when playing this game embrace the pirates life and go for kills, etc.
Things are rarely so black and white as some people describe the pvp in this or any game.
Greifing seems to be a very blurred line which many bend and make excuses for their particular game play style.
@blooddoll22 said
Yea chasing wouldn't fall into the category of griefing. Even if there was no benefit other than simply giving chase for the sake of chase. But... if the players were sailing around chasing piping obnoxious music or words and never sinking the enemy by choice... nor coming in range.. simply being there to annoy.. yea that's griefing.
The common theme here? An effort to merely harass or annoy which is potentially endless and inescapable.. that's griefing.
Um... we (you) kind of did exactly that the other night. Chasing down that galleon who obviously didn't want to fight or join our golden chicken worshiping silliness, whilst you played religious hymns in-game chat.
I'm sorry to pull you up on it mate, we've sailed together for most of my game career and I do appreciate your friendship. But you have to admit, that was by your own definition, griefing.
I can understand that you had pent up stress and anxiety on the day but you brought that to the game and unsuspected players.@blooddoll22 said
I mean I've chased players down for long periods of time despite their desires to avoid me. I hadn't even tried sinking them.. just screwing off and having fun without asking in advance and likely at their cost.
Not griefing.
Once again, I'm sorry but how is it any different to your previous definition of griefing? Is it the "piping obnoxious music or words" that makes the difference?
I'll continue though, to stand in my position that griefing is essentially creating unavoidable position of harassment which is undefeatable thank to purposeful exploitation of game mechanics.
So then chasing another ship for hours is griefing. It's only avoidable if the chasee manages to out sail the chaser or if they scuttle or leave the game.
Forcing someone to do that must be considered as harassment / griefing.
If anyone continuously prevents you from reaching a given island, then that's harassment. Which again falls under your own definition of griefing.
I think it all boils down to our own idea of what griefing is and how much we can excuse our own actions of harassment by simply saying "I'm just giving them a hard time. lol". However if someone was just goofing off, giving us a hard time then that is harassment. :/
Haven't we all wanted to just be left in peace at times?I think that if you force somebody to play the game any different to how they want has to be considered as griefing.
"Be the pirate you want to be" also goes for those who simply want to be left alone to do the quests.There is no denying that 100% of the game was built with PvE in mind. Absolutely nothing in this game suggests that it is strictly for PvP purposes.
Sure vessels and weapons can be used for PvP but they are primarily all in game for PvE.
Seeing another ship on the horizon adds to the thrill of the game as does the occasional PvP encounters and the risk of losing it all. But many have the mindset that the game is a PvP game which it is not.
It's a PvE game with elements of PvP capabilities or, in short, a PvPvE game.Parked at an active fort says that you are open to a battle, parked at an island to do quests says the polar opposite.
To attack a parked vessel, you've interrupted their desire to play the way they want.
The only reason someone shoots at an unmanned (or parked) vessel at an island is to get their personal jollies off.
Whilst still within the realm of the game, to some degree that has to be considered as griefing.It just depends on the individual as to how they view it and where they draw the line.
@manifest7 said in Sea of Griefers:
@spunkus-skunkus
Please explain to me how this is a PVP game....where are these stats for PVP? In comparison, how do these PVP stats hold up to PVE stats? My point is this is a PVE game with PVP elements in it. Spawn killing for some supplies is a nul argument, they're pretty much at every island.Well I could argue that this is a PvP game with PvE elements in it couldn't I? After all, sure you're digging up treasure and earning gold, but the aim of this game is to become the best pirate on the Sea of Thieves and I don't think you're going to be respected if all you do is kill skeletons and complain when people sink you. And spawn killing people to raid their supplies is definitely not a "nul argument" especially seeing as it takes much less effort to take someone else's supplies then finding some on your own. Sure, resources are on every island, but do I really want to spend twenty minutes going to random barrels hoping that at least one of them has some cannonballs in it? No, no I don't - which is why I'd rather kill people until my crew has got all the resources they need.
And hey, no one's stopping them from scuttling; if they really don't want to get spawn killed then they'll cut their losses and spawn somewhere else... Or jump on another server - whatever floats their boat.
@aarghmaargho said in Sea of Griefers:
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
Griefing is doing something for absolutely no gain, but I can assure you that everyone who spawn kills other pirates has their own reason for doing so; and if their reason is simply to have some fun, then so what!
That is a lie, there are plenty of people who just keep spawnkilling when there are no loot and resources, just for the lols of killing others. And those people are griefing. That's what @PersonalC0ffee was talking about, which is quite clear in his posts.
The moment where you've taken everything possible, yet still keep spawnkilling instead of sinking the ship or leave. And that is griefing.
Just because the other crew can avoid the behaviour doesn't give the griefers an excuse for their behaviour.Griefing is doing something for no gain right? Well what if I told you that everyone who spawn kills isn't wasting their time because they're actually getting better at PvP. Sure, the Athena skeletons put up a good fight, but if someone's going to willingly spawn back on a ship full of enemies ten times, then I'll use them as target practice until they lower their ego and scuttle their ship. And who says I'm to blame for killing a someone over and over? They've made the conscious decision to go through those ferry doors without scuttling their ship simply because they think they can kill me; so if they're gonna say they're going to play the victim card and say that they got griefed, please recognise that the only person allowing this behaviour is them.
@dragonsire2016 said in Sea of Griefers:
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
@personalc0ffee Elaborate; as far as I'm concerned, players are given every opportunity to prevent themselves from being griefed.
Preventing themselves from being griefed....does not cancel out the act of griefing that was causing it lol.
I'm guessing that most people who argue what griefing is and isn't, aren't going to change their opinions; so instead of me telling you that getting spawn killed isn't griefing, I'm going to tell you to quit complaining because you're the only person enabling that behaviour. Sure, sure, if someone is killing you over and over again whilst calling you names then most people would agree that they're a bad person; but if you go on the forums to complain about it, then you're proving nothing more than your own idiocracy because you've made the conscious decision to not scuttle your ship and keep them unmuted.
@blatantwalk4260 said in Sea of Griefers:
@spunkus-skunkus so let me throw a hypothetical if I board your ship and take your Legend chest as an enemy Player and texture glitch it behind the bar so you cant pick it up would that be griefing or no.
@blatantwalk4260 Definitely not; no one owns anything until you've cashed it in so technically if the chest was in your possession then you could do whatever you like with. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that I'd prefer no one to get the Legend Chest, than for you to get something that you didn't earn. TBH If I saw someone do this in-game I'd assume that they'd have a very low IQ, seeing as the Pirate Legend vendor is literally RIGHT NEXT TO THE BAR.
But in conclusion - If you steal my chest then fair play to you; nothing that you do with that chest would warrant it as griefing and if you choose to texture glitch it behind the bar than it's my fault for letting you.
@mountainriderak said in Sea of Griefers:
I am reading some of the posts here. Apparently, there's no such thing as griefing, because that's just playing the game the way it was intended. Nice.
Griefing was a term used to first describe when someone did something against the games intended mechanic to halts progression of a game. Its all about context and whether or not the game has safe guards in place for such events. Its not the intent of the player, its the context of the situation.
Griefing - Spawn camping a low level zone for noobs and killing them, keeping them from doing quests. You found a spot where the guards can't hurt you so you can keep spawn camping players who have no other options to stop you.
Not Griefing - Spawn camping a low level zone for noobs and killing them, keeping them from doing quests. The Guards come out and kill you, you take your time to travel back to said spot and do it again, but the guards again come out to kill you.
The reason why context is so important is because it really matters. We had a word for people whose sole purpose was to aggravate another person or to cause chaos just to watch the world burn. Those are Trolls.
I disagree incredibly with people suggesting spawn camping in this game is greifing or even having players chase you over and over and over just to harass you. Its not griefing. Its being a jerk or even Troll, but not Greifing.
"But he repairs my boat and just keeps killing me." Again context is important, the situation is important. What is forcing you to respawn? What is forcing you to go back to your ship that you know you already lost? It might be above sea level but you know that if you go out there they will kill you and you can't beat them. Meaning, you lost. You can scuttle and leave that whole situation.
The biggest reason why I disagree with coffee and the other guy so much about this because at this point its a choice that you are making. You can't be spawn camped since the only person who actually controls whether you are camped or not is you. You scuttle and leave, or you respawn and die.
Its like a vegan going to a restaurant, telling the waiter they are vegan then ordering a steak burger. The waiter tries to explain that the steak burger has meat in it, but the vegan demands they serve what they ordered, and then they get the burger and get horribly angry trying to blame the restaurant.
You have control over you being spawn camped. When you realize your ship is lost, you can scuttle or respawn and fight. Them not sinking your ship has nothing to do with anything, because they boarded your ship and you lost. They can do whatever they want with it for as long they want until you scuttle it.
Its choice.
"NO hes sole purpose is to ruin my experience, he gains nothing." That is trolling and he gains something, your tears. Why thats so hard for everyone to understand is beyond me. Everyone keeps saying, "They get nothing, they get nothing." They get your reaction. By you respawning, you are giving them more and more chances to p**s you off and get under your skin. Thats all they want.
"But they are keeping me from playing my game the way I want." Well why does what you want override their want? Why is what you want more important than another players?
The reason why actions done by crew mates is Greifing is that it halts progression and the safe guard for it can be circumvented if they have friends , or if someone is AFK and you can't get the vote, or someone just won't vote, or the hardest one to deal with when they do it behind your back and you never notice. Its a safe guard but not an full proof one.
"Well that's the same with scuttling." No its not. Scuttling removes you from said location to a different location and puts you in a position where you can try again. This is a choice you have complete utter control over.
You are meant to go against other players, not teammates.
Intent and emotions play no roll in Greifing. Its context.
@spunkus-skunkus said in Sea of Griefers:
@blatantwalk4260 said in Sea of Griefers:
@spunkus-skunkus so let me throw a hypothetical if I board your ship and take your Legend chest as an enemy Player and texture glitch it behind the bar so you cant pick it up would that be griefing or no.
@blatantwalk4260 Definitely not; no one owns anything until you've cashed it in so technically if the chest was in your possession then you could do whatever you like with. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that I'd prefer no one to get the Legend Chest, than for you to get something that you didn't earn. TBH If I saw someone do this in-game I'd assume that they'd have a very low IQ, seeing as the Pirate Legend vendor is literally RIGHT NEXT TO THE BAR.
But in conclusion - If you steal my chest then fair play to you; nothing that you do with that chest would warrant it as griefing and if you choose to texture glitch it behind the bar than it's my fault for letting you.
This right here is another great example of someone using logic. Just because someone glitching the chest is a "i want to watch the world burn" move doesn't mean its greifing. Just means hes an idiot who could have cashed in but did not.
@personalc0ffee Griefing is the act of preventing a player from actively playing the game.
The most obvious example of griefing is in World of Warcraft where you don't really have a choice to spawn somewhere else. A Griefer will kill you at a quest location and camp your corpse.
He won't get anything out of it since he's overleveled and will one shot you. No thrill of combat nothing.
Since you have two options in WoW (raise at corpse or at the spirit healer) a griefer could actively just spawn camp you untill you log off. If you log on again you'll be at the same location with the same griefer.THAT is griefing.
Sea of Thieves however has several options to prevent this. Is someone on your ship? Well just scuttle respawn and move on. Is someone hounding you across the seas, well just log off and log on again and voila, there's another server.
The fact that there are a lot of players calling griefing because they've been killed in honest PvP combat makes calling griefing even worse.
Sure you say you have nothing and are chased around for nothing but how does anyone know? There's no way of actively seeing anything and most people we chase don't even use te speaking trumpet to interact with us. For you it might seem we're just killing you for sport but what you're (obviously) not seeing is that we're rolling up a galleon (that has a really slow turning speed I might add) to sink your dinky little sloop and sinking takes time too.
I get it you've had a bad time. The only one you're harming by crying about griefing is yourself, just move on and have fun!
@Spunkus-Skunkus @Xultanis-Dragon
Just love how both of you admit that it's griefing but because people can scuttle, the behaviour is fine.
Just because people can prevent being griefed, doesn't take away the act of griefing.
Maybe it's also worth remembering why thate note in the ferry got added. Because people we're getting spawned camped, which was acknowledged as grieifing and hence why that option to scuttle in the ferry was added.
@hynieth
Please keep in mind that @PersonalC0ffee and I are not talking about honest PvP, we're talking about the situation where one person/crew is endlessly spawnkilling someone. No personal gain; no loot, no resources, nothing.@aarghmaargho I understand that, but I'm just trying to say that
- There's a way out. It's not as bad as actual griefing is (I think anyone who's been on a PVP WoW server can agree with me on that).
- The "Victim" doesn't know what's going on while he's being killed. He doesnt know it's to no gain. Maybe I've chased him for a long while shouting at him to stop etc. For him to have nothing, then I want to sink him. Respawning seems to take forever when you're in a hurry or in a tight situation. It might seem like a long time before a ship gets back to a sloop and in firing range.
- So many people speak foul on just one instance of griefing while It's so easy to just move along and have fun. That's what games are for. I just want everyone to have fun. And if you're not having fun (duh) being endlessly killed. Then scuttle and start fresh. Resume playing in stead of tormenting yourself with that endless loop.
I'd like to point out that victim blaming is not an excuse for griefing. Just because the victims of griefing have some options to escape doesn't make griefing somehow acceptable.
Take a real world scenario of someone being mugged and losing all his wages. Well he could have gone to the bank earlier and deposited all his cash and then he wouldn't have lost anything. Or he could have chosen not to walk down that alleyway and gone around the block instead. Does this make it OK for the mugger to mug him?
Saying you can scuttle your ship to escape griefers is akin to saying it's OK to mug someone because they could have chosen not to carry so much money.
It's not OK to grief someone just because they have options to try and escape. The fact that those options have to be put in show that griefing is a problem and something that is unwanted.
The key to all this is defining griefing adequately though.
Normal PvP is not griefing, nor is stealing all of someone's loot, but constantly hounding a ship over and over (imo) is griefing. Camping a ship to force a scuttle is griefing. If the only option someone has to escape is to utilise anti-griefing then you are probably griefing.
- Just because somebody can escape the griefing behaviour, doesn't take away the act of griefing.
- You're talking here about honest PvP, not endlessly spawnkilling without reasons.
- Again you go in on how people can avoid the behaviour, that still doesn't justify the other for doing so.
Read what @QuixoticRocket said, he perfectly explains it.
@aarghmaargho said in Sea of Griefers:
@Spunkus-Skunkus @Xultanis-Dragon
Maybe it's also worth remembering why thate note in the ferry got added. Because people we're getting spawned camped, which was acknowledged as grieifing and hence why that option to scuttle in the ferry was added.
Yet here you are still complaining; if the option is there for someone to prevent themself from being killed then it's NOT griefing. Griefing is inhibiting someone from playing the game for no personal gain and spawn killing and witch hunting is neither. The option is there for you to scuttle, the option is there for you to join another server, and the option is there for you to mute other crews. If you're refusing to do any of these things than when you get killed, you're not being griefed, you're just being... KILLED. Now of course I'm not going to sit here and say that someone who yells out racial slurs is a respectable being, but I will say that if you truly don't want to hear what they have to say, then you'll just mute them - and you won't go on the forums and say how your experience was griefed.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; the only griefing in this game is between a player and their own crew.
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