this is not to say a galleon shouldn't be faster then a sloop ,even if personally i don't agree i can see the problem. if the sloop is faster then every time a galleon gets too close all a sloop has to do is run making for a 0 fun pvp game play. but here's the problem the galleon has 4 players (if you 3 man it that's not my problem) 4 times the fire power "8 cannons to the sloops 2" , a hole deck and a captains quarters that if you take a cannon shot does virtually nothing and a lot more goodies we wont get into. now this is all fine to me its a tank with sales it should be a giant boat with lots of guns. for those who are going to counter with a good sloop team can sink a gallie , yes a great sloop team can out play an ok galleon team , but if both teams have equally skilled team mates the galleon is going to come out on top 19/20 times. how it should be 2v4. here comes the kicker the galleon has the advantage why can it just run away if things go south. it is very frustrating for a sloop player if a galleon comes in for a fight the sloop starts to win the engagement and then the 4 man behemoth turns with the wind and zoom out of danger. a galleon should not be able to turn and run with its tale between its legs. the speeds are fine , but i think the galleon should make a slip stream behind it so that if a sloop positions its self in it they can catch the galleon . what do you all think.
galleons shouldn't be able to run from a sloop
@ant-heuser-kush
i may have explained it poorly i don't want the sloop the be faster in the wind. i want the galleon the have a slip stream so the galleon cant just run a way from a sloop . a slip stream is a racing term where the lead car creates a pocket of for laments terms smooth air that allows the following car to generate more speed . so the galleon as it crashes through the waves makes the waters behind it calmer not for ever but a short distance. allowing the sloop if close enough keep up with the galleon@schwammlgott I fail to see the point.
The Galleon is the stronger ship.
Nobody questions that.
If you want to take on a Galleon on a Sloop, you know what you're in for.
The game isn't Rock, Paper, Scissors.
It's Rock, Hydraulic Press (given equally skilled players of course).Think about it like boxing.
If you are featherweight you don't get in a fight with a heavyweight unless you know what you're in for.
Adjusting the rules (think heavyweights may only use one arm, because they already pack a harder punch) makes little sense to me.@lefaux2
"If you are featherweight you don't get in a fight with a heavyweight"revers that line. a heavyweight fighter shouldn't be able to start a fight with a featherweight and then if the heavyweight starts losing just run out of the ring.
@ant-heuser-kush said in galleons shouldn't be able to run from a sloop:
@schwammlgott How? Look what the OP said.
it is very frustrating for a sloop player if a galleon comes in for a fight the sloop starts to win the engagement and then the 4 man behemoth turns with the wind and zoom out of danger.
See that last line? Faces the wind and then zooms out of danger. If the galleon crew went against the wind, they would be at a disadvantage because the sloop would be faster. It's only smart to face the wind and zoom out with full wind in your sails to get away. If the roles were reversed, a sloop crew would have to g against the wind to get away. It's a balance.
He didn't say turn facing the wind, he said turn WITH the wind, meaning in the same direction the wind is going, which puts the wind at their back.
Galleons are the easy mode. Sloops are normal mode. Solo Sloop is hard mode.
I had the scenario once where a Galleon ran just from myself. Or maybe they thought its not worth the trouble.
Cause I was too good for them to end things easily.But oh well we cannot stop people from embarassing themself by running from physically inferior enemys. ;)
@ant-heuser-kush
i can see what you are saying but i don't agree. you are playing the galleon for the extra fire power and 2 more men that's the balance. the speed of a galleon should only be to prevent sloops from just running away every time they see three sails. i honestly think the sloop and gallie should be the same speed in the wind, but once in a fight you shouldn't have more players more fire power and the ability to just run if thing don't go your way.@holk594 but both ships can run if they don't feel like fighting.
Can you try to explain the real problem at hand?
Right now to me it sounds like "As a sloop want to be able to go equally fast or faster than a Galleon".
Since both ships have the same evasive tools I don't see an imbalance here.@lefaux2 sure no problem. let me start with i don't think the larger stronger ship should be able to run from the smaller weaker ship. they should have to use their advantage of having more guns and more players to sink it. now i am not saying the sloop should be faster , and i don't even like the hole turn facing the wind to out run a galleon, if any thing the sloop should have to use its advantage of maneuverability to avoid the galleon. the galleon it self should be faster then the sloop for pvp balancing if a galleon can never "start" a fight with a sloop then things would get boring fast. now the start is important once the galleon starts the fight with its faster speed it should not be able to just run from the smaller sloop you started the fight thinking it was easy pray you should have to sink it or be sunk. starting the fight thinking you had this in the bag and then finding out that sloop is putting up a bigger fight then expected and just running is in my opinion boring. same thing with the sloop just pointing you ship into the wind and playing the hurdy gurdy as you watch the galleon get smaller is not a fun game mechanic.
@holk594 I try to rephrase (and this is by no means meant to offend... I just to figure this out in my old head).
Ship A moves at a speed of 8 knots.
Once it "starts" a fight* Ship A can only go at a maximum of 6 knots.
Once it is sunk, Ship A can go 8 knots again.Did I get your idea correct so far?
*can you define a clear ruleset what "starting a fight" means?
If anything the ships should have a wind stopping mechanic, if I sail in front of another ship and my sails block the wind I'm going to pass that ship (and he's going to be mad that I took away his wind ^_^ )
But I think that's kind of hard to code and bring across to newer players. But it would bring a while new dynamic to chases both with and up wind.
I don't really agree with this. Say you are on a galleon and you are undersupplied or worse, completely out, if a sloop decides to attack then you have no defensive capability whatsoever and it would most likely end with the galleon being sunk.
Realistically you aren't supposed to go toe-to-toe with a galleon if you are on a sloop. There are many benefits to sailing the galleon and I think it's just as fair for them to be able to run from a fight whenever they choose just as a sloop can.
It sounds to me like the OP has gotten into battles with a galleon but at some point the galleon has gotten away and the OP is just upset that he didn't sink the enemy.
Either ship should have the ability to get away, no matter what the crew compliment is or the amount of firepower. The reason being, a talented sloop crew can sink a galleon, a talented galleon crew can sink a sloop, in the end it comes down to which crew was smarter and took advantage of the situation.
Case in point, my crew and I were in a galleon the other day when a sloop approached while we were near shore. We exchanged fire, saw we were at a disadvantage and took to the waves. The sloop chased us over half of the map. In the end, we positioned ourselves to turn the disadvantage to an advantage and sunk the enemy sloop.
So be honest OP, do you want the changes made to give the sloop even more of an advantage because you had trouble taking down a galleon? Is it more of a personal vendetta thing than an actual game mechanics issue? If so, then that right there is a good reason not to change things. And if it is the case, I suggest trying to develop new combat tactics to give your sloop more of an advantage BEFORE the galleon tries to run and if they do, let them run. It's better to follow at a distance and wait until they put themselves at a disadvantage again (such as anchoring off shore) rather than try to run them down.
@lefaux2 you are understanding it better then most . most likely do to my poor explanation. as to offence its ok if some one gets offended over something some one said on the internet then they have no real problems in their life. the speeds are fine. i think the confusion is coming from the slip stream aka drafting ,witch are racing terms. posting a link hope it help shttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drafting_(aerodynamics) . i think a trailing sloop should be able to out run the galleon but only if he is following the galleon. i don't think either ship should be able to just run. the larger galleon should make a "slipstream" that the sloop can use. now i don't thinks the sloop should make one do to it being smaller .the galleon chasing the sloop with the wind is faster, and if you make both ships the same speed in the wind "make the galleon faster not the sloop slower already go slow enough" you have to use both ships strong suits to escape making for a more action packed pvp experience. sorry it takes me so long to reply i type very slowly.
@holk594 the slipstream makes sense in theory, but it would just lead to galleons being chased for hours on end. If the Galleon crew has no interest in PvP, then forcing them into it by making it much harder to get away by taking away their speed advantage with the wind, would irritate a fair few.
Sloops would also create a 'slipstream', might be smaller but still there.
@ant-heuser-kush yes, it's well balanced, but his point is still not far from realistic...a sloop is faster against the wind, but a galleon in full wind has so much more speed, compared to that...means for them it's definitly easier to prevent a fight than for the sloop
I don't want, that they have the same speed...actually I don't really need a change, I just say he has a good point that the difference is higher on that...
If they would change something there (what I don't think), then only make the sloop a little (very little) bit faster in full wind@holk594 i see your point of the slipstream, however with wind powered ships it should be working the other way around, i believe this used to be a valid tactic in historic ship to ship combat:
If the ship behind got close enough the wind would be “stolen” from the leading ship hence the term “taken the wind out of somebodys sails”. This would cause the leading ship to lose speed.
The downside was that the trailing ship would have to combat the wake (choppy waves) made by the leading ship.
@callmebackdraft i just googled taking the wind and it fits better in this circumstance but has the same effect the trailing ship ends up going faster then the leading. as for choppy waters be hind the bot not the case. a wake " the large waves from the ships water displacement starts at the ships sides and makes a v shape getting larger as it gets farther from the ship. the water right behind the boat in the middle of that v shape is very smooth.
More sails = more speed..
The size or weight of the boat does not decrease top speed just the acceleration rate.. only the resistance of the water judges that, which is why you move slower in the Kraken ink. Denser hence higher friction. A galleon will always out run a sloop.... up wind however, the mechanics alow a sloop to take that cake
@holk594 you should look at fast moving ships, they create multiple wake’s and it is pretty rough water behind a ship, it basicly cuts a groove that is hard to get out of as you basicly have to climb a wave on any of the two sides and that water wants to go back into said groove. So fighting an uphill wave with water rushing back.
As i said it was a valid tactic in history, however not one without its dangers
@callmebackdraft
if any one reads this post look up what callmebackdraft mentioned its pretty cool. i think adding the hole taking the wind and wakes would add something very cool to pvp.@holk594 my understanding is wash hanging (drafting) in water, is done slightly off to the side, and usually by small boats like or kayak, but with larger boats, you have to be basically directly behind the other ship to gain any benefit.
I think having the galleon slow down just to make it easier to force continued combat, isn't a great idea, except to those who hunt galleon crews.
@holk594 said in galleons shouldn't be able to run from a sloop:
i think the confusion is coming from the slip stream aka drafting ,witch are racing terms.
These things don't work that way when sailing unless you are close.
Like 1ft close :D
Given that your bowsprit alone is about 9ft this won't really play out :)What does work in sailing is stealing the wind with your sails.
But given the height of the mast of a sloop vs. the height of a Galleon this won't add anything meaningful as well.
Plus it also just works if you're close :)@holk594 i hate to point out the obvious 3 sails with wind vs 1 sail . I really dont even understand why theirs one or more reply this makes no sense whats so ever
