Notoriety System

@mr-shatango said in Notoriety System:

You caught my curiocity :)

Zing - the bait worked!

When a player in game manages to kill a certain threshold of other players without being killed themselves they will earn a Notoriety Level. For the sake of discussion we can go with a threshold of 5.

So 5 players per 1 level is that unique players or killing 1 guy 5 times also counts? (just thinking with you)

I don't think it would need to require unique players. As it stands, that means you have waited on that respawn time already to get the next kill, and if a person is getting killed around 5 times and not choosing to Scuttle is probably making a poor decision (by 5 times I'd say you've seen pretty clearly your skills are not up to snuff to get this job done most likely). Of course, if they want to fight it out then I don't see the problem in it really. If it is a potential farming concern, I don't think it is the most efficient way to go about it.

When you earn a Notoriety Level other players who see your Gamertag and Title will also be able to see a Skull Icon appear above your name. The maximum Notoriety Level that one can have would be a 4 (so getting 20+ kills without being killed yourself).

I like that idea a lot

Glad you approve, I like the idea too.

Whenever you are killed (or if you leave the session) your Notoriety Level is reset to 0. This means you can earn a legitimate reputation for being a savage pirate as people will be able to immediately visually identify this fact.

What reward will you get for killing a "Savage pirate" I am thinking in a bounty hunter way have you ever played a juggernaut game mode? 1 guy gets juggernaut and for killing the juggernaut you become the juggernaut. Do you get something in return for killing him except for loot?

Well, you will get the loot. I suppose if Rare wanted to get really crazy they could make a special Commendation or Title for successfully killing X number of pirates at X Notoriety Level, cause that is something potentially worth bragging about too. If they were to go that route, the Commendations/Titles should be Privateer themed.

Now here is the catch. If you have a Notoriety Level and you are killed you will drop a corresponding Skull that can be cashed in for Gold/Rep at the Order of Souls (your now the living version of a notorious pirate). So at a Level 0 (1-4 kills with no death) you drop nothing, at Level 1 (5-9 kills) you drop a Foul Skull, at Level 2 (10-14 kills) you drop a Disgraced Skull, at Level 3 (15-19 kills) you drop a Hateful Skull, and at Level 4 (20+ kills) you drop a Villainous Skull.

I love this idea but there are lardy a lot of ways on getting OoS rep. Don't get me wrong I love your idea. But I am thinking more like pirate always took cargo and they were Notorious towards Merchants taking.stealing there stuff. Maby connect it towards merchants alliance for keeping the sea clean? as for a fort you get a chest and a skull (and ofc some spices etc) but there is no merchant item there of the same level as that.

Well, the Skull Fort issue not giving Merchant stuff is a separate problem, and Rare really should take some steps to have a Stronghold Merchant Item - so I agree with you there. That said, Order of Souls essentially has no more methods of gaining rep than any other faction - Voyages or Random Chance Loot or Skull Fort (sans Merchants really). This would push OoS into the lead in that regard, but just barely as the Threshold is tricky enough that this should still be rare (like Random Chance Loot). Finally, the OoS is the group that deals in hunting down notorious pirates, so they are the logical reward path.

This means that the folks who do really love PvP can have something to show for it and earn a sense of fear from crews they encounter, but the folks who are just defending themselves also have something worth fighting for (bonus loot) rather than just running away to save their skin/current loot.

Gotcha! Like the idea!

Awesome!

And, for the record, this is coming from someone who doesn't generally engage in PvP in the game if I can avoid it, but I think this system has a little something for everyone in it and could be a fun way to add a little more depth to PvP without going full bore into big quests or whole new factions to support it.

Nicely done good thinking love the idea. it has some thought if a bounty hunter faction idea I had earlier (in beta) Really good thinking mate love the idea!

Kind regards,
Tango

Thanks for the well laid out reply to everything and participating in the discussion on it. Not sure I saw your proposed Bounty Hunter faction idea, but I have seen many of them pop up (even proposed one myself before). I just realized today this might be the most light weight method of playing around with the PvP side of things a little bit.

@redeyesith I think this is well fleshed-out and an overall excellent idea.
It would cancel out the whole argument about promoting PVP as those who do it regularly essentially end up with a bounty above their heads!

I would perhaps say that your notoriety doesn't drop entirely to 0 per death, but perhaps down a level instead?

If you're gonna put in that much effort to cheese it, because what you described would take some effort to arrange, more power to you for getting to do that with the mechanic.

@redeyesith I believe this game eschews PvP rewards and commendations for a reason - they aren't particularly interested in PvP for the sake of PvP; which will increase if they add in an incentive to do it... which is what this would be. I like the fact that the rewards for PvP are what you can get from what you sank - that's the pirate way.

@bran-the-ent said in Notoriety System:

@redeyesith I believe this game eschews PvP rewards and commendations for a reason - they aren't particularly interested in PvP for the sake of PvP; which will increase if they add in an incentive to do it... which is what this would be. I like the fact that the rewards for PvP are what you can get from what you sank - that's the pirate way.

This wouldn't be PvP for the sake of PvP really, but for the sake of what amounts to a temporary title/warning system to other crews and for potential reward for defending oneself from an onslaught by said threat. I actually really went out of my way on this to avoid that pitfall while still doing simply anything with the PvP side of the game.

Again, as a person who doesn't PvP. I just see no reason not to throw those folks something of a bone.

@redeyesith The result will be PvP for the sake of PvP as people seek to increase their notoriety... or cash in on someone else's notoriety. You're basically turning PvP into OoS rewards.

@bran-the-ent said in Notoriety System:

@redeyesith The result will be PvP for the sake of PvP as people seek to increase their notoriety.

Yea, the same people who do that already. This would just let you know on meeting them that is the type of player they are and reduce the surprise when they go for a kill on sight. To act like that population doesn't exist and already PvP for the sake of it is fundamentally flawed.

In the end, I see this actually helping more than hurting the state of things.

@redeyesith The minute you add a reward for simply engaging in PvP you will increase the number of people engaging in it. That's common sense. So, I don't think it's accurate that this will be limited to the current people who engage in PvP for the sake of PvP.

And why do we want to decrease the surprise of someone coming in for a kill on sight? Why do we need to label PvP players as PvP players? Seems odd. And, it seems like you want to penalize PvP players for making the choice to act like pirates.

Sometimes a crew resists being robbed... and that crew dies. You're saying that the person who won should become a target... because they won?

@bran-the-ent said in Notoriety System:

@redeyesith The minute you add a reward for simply engaging in PvP you will increase the number of people engaging in it. That's common sense. So, I don't think it's accurate that this will be limited to the current people who engage in PvP for the sake of PvP.

It may well get more people to actively participate because the chance of reward, but thinking that this will fundamentally shift the way people play the game I don't think is justified.

Will this make PvE focused people hunt others, no I don't think so as that is not what they want to do, but it may prompt them to defend as opposed to flee an encounter.

Will this make transient players stop being transient (shifting from PvE to PvP and back), no I don't think so since they play how they like already and will hunt when they want and voyage when they want, though they may defend more often when not hunting.

Will this make PvP focused people less PvP focused, no of course it won't, but it won't immediately change the play styles of most beyond more active defense and less chases for long periods.

Acting like adding any reward whatsoever with PvP will make the game fall apart is silly to me, so long as they keep also adding lots of cooperative focused content too.

@redeyesith I think you are failing to grasp the impact of such a reward. People want titles, they want anything that will help with the grind. If you don't think that this will radically increase PvP, frankly, you're kidding yourself. The clamoring for titles and commendations in this game is a good indicator of people's behavior patterns. You want to introduce a type of bounty system based on someone being good at the game. If you can survive encounters with other pirates - whether you instigate the fight or not, you become a target. I'm sorry, but that makes zero sense to me. Shouldn't have a label put over your head simply because you're better at fighting than others. I don't actively hunt other players, but that doesn't mean I don't engage in PvP and survive. I don't want a bullseye or bounty on my head just because I'm okay at fighting - just because I can survive.

@bran-the-ent said in Notoriety System:

@redeyesith I think you are failing to grasp the impact of such a reward. People want titles, they want anything that will help with the grind. If you don't think that this will radically increase PvP, frankly, you're kidding yourself. The clamoring for titles and commendations in this game is a good indicator of people's behavior patterns. You want to introduce a type of bounty system based on someone being good at the game. If you can survive encounters with other pirates - whether you instigate the fight or not, you become a target. I'm sorry, but that makes zero sense to me. Shouldn't have a label put over your head simply because you're better at fighting than others. I don't actively hunt other players, but that doesn't mean I don't engage in PvP and survive. I don't want a bullseye or bounty on my head just because I'm okay at fighting - just because I can survive.

Which is why I also didn't include anything about helping target said individuals, which is normally suggested with any of these ideas. If you aren't giving people a special means to hunt you down, or informing them of your status until you are already in an encounter with them, all it can do is tell them you are someone not easy to kill and if they take a stab at it and can manage it they can get something for their efforts, but if you have managed to wrack up a bounty you are not only fending people off but never getting killed in any of these situations the odds of doing this are not great.

It is also session based, so it isn't like this status will haunt you for the rest of your days. On your next login you will be back to 0 and need many kills to work your way back up and become a viable target.

Will you get an initial surge in increased attacks, sure - just like THD initially got people to chill out. Will it last forever, no - just like it didn't with the THD calm down. Eventually any change will stabilize as it sits in the game moving forward and people just get back to their normal playstyles.

@redeyesith You are putting a skull over their head. That puts a bullseye on someone who may not be a threat when someone encounters them. Again, I may have killed 5 people defending my solo sloop. If I bump into someone at an outpost, I will have a skull over my head. They will likely choose to kill me for the reward than be friendly. So, no, I don't think this idea works.

I shouldn't have to log out to erase some "notoriety" I got for defending myself. I have enough problems dealing with folks trying to sink me. I don't need another threat that I seemed to gain simply because I was successful at fending off the others.

Yes, because everyone is always so excited about a Foul Skull when we already have people doing stuff like leaving chests and stuff they dig up behind because it is too low end. Someone looking for a reward is probably gonna want to hold off until you're actually worth it.

And, yes, you're right, some will just attack you when they see it. Some might also beg you not to kill them, or make an offering to you so you leave them unharmed, or maybe even just run away from you because they aren't good enough to kill five players before being killed once themselves so why get themselves killed attacking you. There are more ways the situation could pan out than just an attack you - not that this will stop that from happening, but it already does. Which is sort of like how it is now. It just becomes an additional consideration for people, nothing more.

And this is, again, only when you do encounter other players - which isn't all the time as it is. So, I just still really don't see this making as much of a change as you expect. Oh, and to be clear, when I say a skull above the name, I just mean a little icon above their gamertag only when the gamertag itself is visible to you to begin with, not like some kind of beacon in the sky like a Skull Fort.

So, again, I feel like you are putting too much weight on this relatively minor concept. And to be fair, if your biggest concern about causing hunting people down is the idea of Titles/Commendation, notice how I didn't mention that as a primary concept - more an after thought. So, we just don't do those, you just get the little skulls above the name and drop a skull as noted when killed by another player from another crew.

@redeyesith Okay. Just so long as you are clear about the impact and simply don't care or find it insignificant. Again, I don't need the added harassment, myself - whether it be for a foul skull or not. I'm not looking to be a notch on more people's belt.

@bran-the-ent said in Notoriety System:

@redeyesith Okay. Just so long as you are clear about the impact and simply don't care or find it insignificant. Again, I don't need the added harassment, myself - whether it be for a foul skull or not. I'm not looking to be a notch on more people's belt.

Of, indeed, of course there will be some impact. Just, as you said, I don't think it will be impactful on the long term in how people behave (much like no other events have been). And the side stuff it would add outside of direct conflicts I think is worth seeing how it would work out.