Privateers?

So if I'm getting this right. Once a privateer holds an item its theirs?... so I go solo. Go privateer. And find a skull fort. I wait patiently for you to clear it and then run in and pick up an drop as many items as i can as fast as possible. Starting with stronghold skull,stronghold chest, exquisite spices and down the line.

Now it's all mine you cant have it unless I relinquish it.

That's my first hole.

2nd. I'll pretend to help you with gh or oos and do the same thing to your chest/skull.

3rd. Gunpowder??? Just saying how would it work?

@coel03 said in Privateers?:

So if I'm getting this right. Once a privateer holds an item its theirs?... so I go solo. Go privateer. And find a skull fort. I wait patiently for you to clear it and then run in and pick up an drop as many items as i can as fast as possible. Starting with stronghold skull,stronghold chest, exquisite spices and down the line.

Now it's all mine you cant have it unless I relinquish it.

That's my first hole.

2nd. I'll pretend to help you with gh or oos and do the same thing to your chest/skull.

3rd. Gunpowder??? Just saying how would it work?

ONLY to other Privateers! Pirates can always murder, pillage and steal anything. This only works for others who choose the Privateer setting for the session.

If it were otherwise, players could choose to be a privateer and steal your loot without you able to fight back (because of the inability to damage). It all has to work together to be an effective social strategy.

But again, pirates don't change at all. Key point.

@captain-arcanic

That is what I am saying. Ownership needs to be determined by a factor other than picking up because if its first to the chest it could cause problems

@coel03 said in Privateers?:

So if I'm getting this right. Once a privateer holds an item its theirs?... so I go solo. Go privateer. And find a skull fort. I wait patiently for you to clear it and then run in and pick up an drop as many items as i can as fast as possible. Starting with stronghold skull,stronghold chest, exquisite spices and down the line.

Now it's all mine you cant have it unless I relinquish it.

That's my first hole.

2nd. I'll pretend to help you with gh or oos and do the same thing to your chest/skull.

3rd. Gunpowder??? Just saying how would it work?

Instead of just picking it up and putting it down, why not make it yours when you put it down on your ship?

@rattlyfob said in Privateers?:

@coel03 said in Privateers?:

So if I'm getting this right. Once a privateer holds an item its theirs?... so I go solo. Go privateer. And find a skull fort. I wait patiently for you to clear it and then run in and pick up an drop as many items as i can as fast as possible. Starting with stronghold skull,stronghold chest, exquisite spices and down the line.

Now it's all mine you cant have it unless I relinquish it.

That's my first hole.

2nd. I'll pretend to help you with gh or oos and do the same thing to your chest/skull.

3rd. Gunpowder??? Just saying how would it work?

Instead of just picking it up and putting it down, why not make it yours when you put it down on your ship?

I like the the thought. Just not sure about the coding. Either method would require new coding though.

I like the thought that privateers have rules (thus the ownership system) and pirates don't.

This feels overly complicated to me, and I'd recommend a slightly different approach.

I'm also keen on the fact that you are making a definite choice each time you play, on HOW you will play this session. PVE players who aren't into attacking and marauding will like the security that comes from recognizing othe privateers on sight, and marauders aren't penalized for being pirates.
The only downside I see is that those who employ con games and doublecrosses will have a harder time.

@captain-arcanic said in Privateers?:

I'm also keen on the fact that you are making a definite choice each time you play, on HOW you will play this session. PVE players who aren't into attacking and marauding will like the security that comes from recognizing othe privateers on sight, and marauders aren't penalized for being pirates.
The only downside I see is that those who employ con games and doublecrosses will have a harder time.

How about pirates get 1.25 gold for everything turned in and privateers get .75 gold for everything

More risk more reward, and you have to pay a "tax" to your "sponsor"

@redeyesith said in Privateers?:

This feels overly complicated to me, and I'd recommend a slightly different approach.

I like your idea, but it doesn't give the sense of security to PVEers that I was looking for. Again, without changing the way PVPers play.

@rattlyfob said in Privateers?:

@captain-arcanic said in Privateers?:

I'm also keen on the fact that you are making a definite choice each time you play, on HOW you will play this session. PVE players who aren't into attacking and marauding will like the security that comes from recognizing othe privateers on sight, and marauders aren't penalized for being pirates.
The only downside I see is that those who employ con games and doublecrosses will have a harder time.

How about pirates get 1.25 gold for everything turned in and privateers get .75 gold for everything

More risk more reward, and you have to pay a "tax" to your "sponsor"

That could work.

@captain-arcanic said in Privateers?:

@redeyesith said in Privateers?:

This feels overly complicated to me, and I'd recommend a slightly different approach.

I like your idea, but it doesn't give the sense of security to PVEers that I was looking for. Again, without changing the way PVPers play.

Well, it sort of does. As mentioned (albeit later in the thread) the easiest way for someone to find Pirates in my version of it would be to find a crew actively attacking another ship (otherwise you're just blindly looking around for people who happen to have engaged in piracy in the designated time frame). By offering a direct reward for it, some of the PvP focused people will actively choose this route. This means rather than the often requested NPC police you would have people actively filling this role. By directing some of the PvP players through this mechanic you have less of the active population randomly attacking people just because they want the PvP.

@drewbob7 said in Privateers?:

What incentive does player have to do privateer?

Certain player types are turned away by the lack of social interaction caused by the rampant distrust SoT can generate. Being a Privateer gives you a portion of the community you can trust.

Doing this without altering the game for all of us who enjoy it as it stands is the hard part.

@redeyesith said in Privateers?:

@captain-arcanic said in Privateers?:

@redeyesith said in Privateers?:

This feels overly complicated to me, and I'd recommend a slightly different approach.

I like your idea, but it doesn't give the sense of security to PVEers that I was looking for. Again, without changing the way PVPers play.

Well, it sort of does. As mentioned (albeit later in the thread) the easiest way for someone to find Pirates in my version of it would be to find a crew actively attacking another ship (otherwise you're just blindly looking around for people who happen to have engaged in piracy in the designated time frame). By offering a direct reward for it, some of the PvP focused people will actively choose this route. This means rather than the often requested NPC police you would have people actively filling this role. By directing some of the PvP players through this mechanic you have less of the active population randomly attacking people just because they want the PvP.

I see what you're going for, but the time limit reset of your idea still means that anyone out there could be a killer with "no record." Thus it doesn't really solve the distrust problem I mentioned above.

Your idea concerning Red gamer tags made me think of how this idea would mesh with my Bounty/Notoriety idea here

@drewbob7 said in Privateers?:

@Captain-Arcanic Maybe, I don't like this, but I don't know why.

Fair enough. There are some inelegant parts that I'd like to smooth out. Is it the clunky mechanics or the overall idea you have a problem with?

@drewbob7 said in Privateers?:

@captain-arcanic Thats the problem, I can't identify what I don't like about it. Maybe because I feel it then turns to a more PvP team deathmatch game? IDK.

It definitely introduces a "your side, my side" mentality, but that's a part of the social thing. And to be fair, there's already a lot of that between the PVPers and the PVEers. Since my idea is to let you choose each and every time you log in, the camps aren't so rigid.
It might mean that the devs would have to take into account the number of pirates and privateers on each server though.

@drewbob7 said in Privateers?:

@captain-arcanic Also, what about gunpowder barrels, and shooting another privateers ship? would would that work? And I feel that since privateers can't harm each other, and want to fight, they might hunt pirates to the ends of earth, know what I mean?

Simplicity means that gunpowder barrels would have to be the same as all other "treasures," though since they can hurt members of your own crew, I guess they could hurt other privateers.
If we work the ownership rules to mean once an item is set down on your ship it becomes yours, that works fine.
Yes, agreed, it is going to focus a privateer's aggression on pirates, thus the team mentality.

@captain-arcanic said in Privateers?:

@redeyesith said in Privateers?:

@captain-arcanic said in Privateers?:

@redeyesith said in Privateers?:

This feels overly complicated to me, and I'd recommend a slightly different approach.

I like your idea, but it doesn't give the sense of security to PVEers that I was looking for. Again, without changing the way PVPers play.

Well, it sort of does. As mentioned (albeit later in the thread) the easiest way for someone to find Pirates in my version of it would be to find a crew actively attacking another ship (otherwise you're just blindly looking around for people who happen to have engaged in piracy in the designated time frame). By offering a direct reward for it, some of the PvP focused people will actively choose this route. This means rather than the often requested NPC police you would have people actively filling this role. By directing some of the PvP players through this mechanic you have less of the active population randomly attacking people just because they want the PvP.

I see what you're going for, but the time limit reset of your idea still means that anyone out there could be a killer with "no record." Thus it doesn't really solve the distrust problem I mentioned above.

That is making the assumption that having distrust of other crews is a problem to begin with. I don't see it that way. Encountering another crew should inspire a moment of tension, regardless of if the outcome will be peaceful or not. You shouldn't know immediately going into a situation if it is safe or not. That is something that seems to generally be core to the game. And the potential for betrayal. My system allows for all of that, where as I feel your system is more imposing and would cause me more frustration that I have to back out of the dang game to change up my play style for a session rather than just naturally playing and having it shift dynamically without forcing me to not be able to get aggressive with non-crew members (what the timer system allows for).

Like, for instance, if Privateers can't attack other Privateers, what if I as a Privateer board your ship (you as a Privateer) and steal a chest from it to go turn in. You can't really do much about it now, can you? So, the betrayal potential become a requirement.

@redeyesith said in Privateers?:

Like, for instance, if Privateers can't attack other Privateers, what if I as a Privateer board your ship (you as a Privateer) and steal a chest from it to go turn in. You can't really do much about it now, can you? So, the betrayal potential become a requirement.

This is what the ownership mechanic is for, and why I said in the OP that is was crucial to the system working. Once a Privateer picked up (or placed an item on their ship), it became theirs and was unable to be picked up by any other privateer, without first being "released." Pirates could still pick it up as normal.

As to mistrust not being a issue, it might not be one for you or me, but I believe it is for quite a few players, both from the forums, and from my conversations with crewmates. This idea was all about "fixing" that issue without negatively effecting the game play for everyone else.

This is just another end-around to legislate out the toxic griefer players. The game doesn't need this. What needs to happen is that there needs to be a mentality change. The myth that this is a pvp game needs to die. Once that happens the griefers that feel comfortable posting LFGs seeking a crew to 'ruin a kid's day' will become the social pariahs that they really are.

The problem is that those of us actually playing the game just go along with their lies....it is a pirate game after all. It's a pirate game with clear progression none of which is related at all to any pvp acts. Pvp is a game mechanic, a poor and inefficient one, to furthering yourself in the game. Since we all have had some pvp interactions we acknowledge it is a reasonable game mechanic. The problem is the toxic griefer wants to conflate pvp and loot acquisition, but they don't actually care about the loot. They just want to ruin other players' good times.

@steelroots55 said in Privateers?:

This is just another end-around to legislate out the toxic griefer players. The game doesn't need this. What needs to happen is that there needs to be a mentality change. The myth that this is a pvp game needs to die. Once that happens the griefers that feel comfortable posting LFGs seeking a crew to 'ruin a kid's day' will become the social pariahs that they really are.

The problem is that those of us actually playing the game just go along with their lies....it is a pirate game after all. It's a pirate game with clear progression none of which is related at all to any pvp acts. Pvp is a game mechanic, a poor and inefficient one, to furthering yourself in the game. Since we all have had some pvp interactions we acknowledge it is a reasonable game mechanic. The problem is the toxic griefer wants to conflate pvp and loot acquisition, but they don't actually care about the loot. They just want to ruin other players' good times.

Respectfully, I'm seeing a problem defined, but no suggestions for a solution. I want PVPers to have their fun and not be infringed upon. I genuinely feel that's an integral part of the game. I think the "griefers" in the community will always exist to some (hopefully shrinking) degree. I know I keep restating this, but I just want the more socially minded players to have fun too. I can't yet see another solution that fits, though I'm always looking.

@katttruewalker said in Privateers?:

@captain-arcanic I actually really like the idea of a class which would enable that peaceful play some pirates are looking for, Privateers fits perfectly, but they'd need an affiliation, who would give the Letters of Marque, the Trading companies?

Good to hear!
The Merchant Guild seems most fitting.
Though I'm always hopeful RARE simply adds more guilds to the game, in which case a Royal Navy Guild or Bounty Hunter's Guild would work well.

Also: I love the idea of Letters of Marque, but I'm not advocating that here. I am advocating something like that here though.

@captain-arcanic

As long as you're agreeing that PVPers and griefers are separate entities you are part of the solution. The griefers are hiding behind the real PVPers and pretending that's who they are too. Once everyone makes that distinction the griefers can become the outliers and be held accountable, and hopefully leave.

If I understand you, correct me if I'm wrong, is that our opinions diverge at the shared experience with actual PVPers and PVE-primary players. I think that the true vision of this game lies in a balance of these two types of players. Without the potential for PVP then PVE would be extremely boring. Without players doing PVE then PVP players get absolutely zero progression. To me the beauty of this game lies in playing PVE and having the danger of PVP keeping me from being fully comfortable. That coupled with instances of PVP to actively protect my loot. I don't get a say in that and it's obviously not my experience every time, but I think that if Rare had their wish this would be the abundant experience had by must players.

@steelroots55 I think we are in agreement. The beauty of this idea is that you don't lose the danger of having to protect your loot. There are still pirates out there. They still want what you have. You just have a loose-knit collection of other crews out there that you can rely on for mutual protection.

When you choose the Privateer option at the beginning of your session, you're automatically crewed with other Privateers. You can hit the seas with the idea of seeking out other Privateers to engage with. Sure, you still have to be wary of pirates, but when you find another Privateer, you can have that peaceful play experience mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile the bloody pirates are unaffected, except perhaps in that they have a more formal target option, and might occasionally run into stronger opposition.

@drewbob7 said in Privateers?:

What incentive does player have to do privateer?
Protection

@drewbob7 said in Privateers?:

@Captain-Arcanic Maybe its just because I'm a loner who likes the game how it is and where its going.

Sorry but your suggestion just feels wrong

Heh, no need to apologize. To each their own right? And to be honest, the idea's far from being perfected in my mind either.
But a person can like the game how it is and still want to improve it. See it expand and throw out ideas for it.
I'm not sure anyone knows where it's going exactly. Where do you see it going?