The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it

@mrbrocksego Breath of the wild is no different than oblivion in that regard. You're taught a tutorial on how to play the game and then you can run amok. Skyrim same thing, Just cause 1-3 same thing, Witcher, same thing. It is a sand box and that is what people do, they do what they want. Where SoT suffers is it doesn't have much to do and you tend to repeat content fairly quickly, which is where the concern of cost vs content comes in.

SoT does however do the single person manned station on vessels that other games have also done, but SoT offers a sandbox experience with smaller playerbase numbers. So in that regard, it is unique.

@mrbrocksego Where in the world does Skyrim or oblivion pretend to be time sensitive? I mean it's no different than Zelda telling you that you need to find a way to stop Calamity Gannon before it is too late. You wake up from your slumber, look out on the world and do things your way, hell you can even end the game in the first 20 minutes, just like in oblivion/skyrim. All up to the player, that's the beauty of sandbox games, no limitations.

"The content is the interaction with the other players." Ok, and to do what? Voyages? Which aren't the content, but add a progressive bar to earning cosmetics, which is the only thing the game has to work for. Skull forts, which add to the progression bar. PvP which has no purpose, is poorly balanced and also adds to the progression bar. Hmmm...I see a pattern here.

@MostlyJustOkay
@CmdrLlama
What these guys said.

OP was discussing the vision behind the game. The vision is great and we all understand it - however the interesting topic to be adressed is how the vision is transformed into actual game design, balancing, mechanics etc. and how it affects real players choices, motivations, agendas.

@GunnerDK mentioned how the only direct focus of the game (logically) is provided by the xp progression system.

It's great to see CmdLlama address each specific issue because by using fluffy terms, like in the OP, you decrease the quality of the discussion.

Why not discuss ingame barriers hindering the playstyle described by OP? Or what specific mechanics that support it?
The message of the OP sort of looks like (a search for) confirmation bias, more than an inquiry into the matter of what constitutes the gameplay envisioned by Rare.

@aenima123 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

@boxcar-squidy a dit dans The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it :

@aenima123 You are trying to say that certain things have an intrinsic value, I am saying that value is subjective to the end user.

This fact is born out by market capitalism, Apple and Starbucks were mentioned in this thread. Those are two of the most successful companies on the planet.

People will pay what they think a thing is worth to them. If you have a strong anti-capitalist agenda that you are trying to push, hey great for you, lofty ideals and all, it's just that the World doesn't really work that way currently.

You're going completely off road.
Your initial statement was to say that SoT worth its price.
I say, maybe it worth it for YOU, but as you can see, we are A LOT to say that we don't feel like it worth it, so, maybe, there might be a problem with its price point.

I had a moment like this on my stream yesterday of Conan Exiles. Someone came in and asked if it was worth the price of 50(Console) and I told them that I couldn't answer that question. Price is different for every person vs the content, but I told them that the current content in the game would definitely justify the price tag chosen by the devs. I cannot say the same for SoT's. While the game does definitely have Social interaction, so does Roblox, minecraft, survival games etc, all offering similar gameplay styles(While not solo manned points on a vessel, but definitely exploring.) and all costing much less for much more.

@mrbrocksego said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

@aenima123 I'm not saying the game doesn't need more stuff. I'm just saying that if your focusing on grinding out levels and gold in the game, like thats the primary objective of the game, then its obvious why your not having a good time.

The game absolutely needs more tools for players to communicate, and engage with each other in meaningful ways. That being said, if your creative there are already enough tools to get away with that now. Makes sense though since the devs stated that as the objective of the game, most people seem completely unable to grasp the general concept though.

But but the levels, the gold, I gotta grind for the slot machine level up sound and some more shinies. You guys have been trained on these kinds of games, so many kids missed the era of just playing outside with sticks and rocks for toys. I'm only 31 and apparently thats the cut off for that.

So, you're saying that if people's imagination isn't up to snuff, then the 60 dollar game they purchased just won't be fun eh? Ok, I'll play along. So, you role play as a pirate, you own your own ship, you go on vast voyages, all with the intent on scoring mounds of booty to get gold and upgrade ye'vessel and your wardrobe. A fantastic idea. Over the horizon you see some enemy players who want some of that new found fortune of yours and wish to make it their own. So you initiate into a glorious PvP battle.

The battle takes place upon the swirling swells, smacking your ship back and forth and causing people to fall over board(Not really due to the built in stability which is silly.) The cannon balls start flying, the cannons roaring and at the end of it all, only one ship stands. The treasure magically floats even though it is weighed down with the coin within its contents and you take it back aboard your vessel in a moment of victory. You and your lads move down into the cabin, slamming your grog together and howling in your victory. When what's this?

Clearly it must be a ghost vessel for the ship you just sank is back! All the enemy pirates are aboard as you can clearly spot with your spyglass and they don't look happy! Your cannon ball reserves are dwindled and the wind certainly isn't in your favor. It doesn't look good for you and your crew, but fear not, for AlmondBeard shall save the day, slaying the both of you and your crew and sending you back to the recruitment line as you sit and wait for yet another voyage.

So you come back into the world, a little poorer, but still full of imagination, so you and your lads make your way to the tavern to discuss a new adventure. What do you come up with? Well, Billy has taken the initiative of throwing up in a bucket and is now tossing it in all of your faces and everyone is scampering, running for that water! A shark! Oh no! Wait, he isn't doing anything, not so much of a threat there.

"What do you want to do now?" said billy. "How about we try and get ontop of the tavern?" A splendid idea! etc, etc. It's not a lack of imagination, I can imagine having a good time, just like I can imagine a can is made of solid gold. It doesn't mean it actually is.

@kashaarafall Nevermind that your glorious ship battle on the impeccably designed seas is usually defined by people staring at ladders and trying to sail in-between the immersion break of the xxSmokinDopexx and Poontangy7822 Gamertags swimming across the open ocean from a ship 100 meters away from you.

@drewbob7 "Rare made this game toward having fun with your friends and making new friends and exploring islands by doing voyages."

That's not the main point of the game, the main point is to be a pirate... with friends, being your crew.

"If Rare wanted it to be all about sea battles, they would make it more realistic, with bigger crews, and more cannons, and more variety on weapons."

No, because the type of game in question is actually extremely demanding on the servers... first person shooter on a huge map like that with dynamic ship movements, that take a lot of power to maintain... The reason why rare didn't make it more realistic has nothing to do with the graphics or gameplay whatsoever... Team Fortress 2 is competitive and unrealistic, it's about being a homocidal and psychotic mercenary that risks their life killing enemy mercenaries just to get paid in GRAVEL, cartoony styles have nothing to do with whether or not the game is competitive, lol.

A game is competitive, because it's competitive, regardless of realism, end of story.

And for the crew size, you can only fit a limited about of player per server, SoT has a fairly standard FPS PvP server population format, around 24 people per server.. And more than that and the server starts to drown from too much information. This game isn't designed as an MMORPG, it's designed as an FPSPvP game, similar to TF2.

Secondly, Sea of Thieves is a game about being a pirate... Pirates by definition have to attack other ships, and steal from other ships unlawfully (both of them, not just one of them), in order to be labeled a pirate. :P

Weapon variety will most likely be expanded in the future, look forward to that! :)

"You would fight someone every 5-10 mins or so."

Atm, there is no pure PvP bonus, you need to rely on enemy players doing PvE in order to benefit from PvP, though if the content stops and everyone becomea pirate legend, which will happen relatively soon, everyone will actually do that, just sail around and fight for fun because they no longer benefit from treasure.

PvP is what keeps this game fresh, it's the dynamic element that keeps giving, it's why TF2 has been popular several years without getting any actual new content. xD

So yes, this game is mainly about PvP... Even though it's a PvPvE game.

"If you want that type of game, pre-order Skulls and Bones."

That game is about playing as a ship, not a pirate... That's why SoT is the superior choice... SoT appeals to those players who want to play as a pirate, steer a ship, leave it and manually board enemy ships, explore islands, sandbox things basically...

Skull and bones is just a PvP game where you play as a ship, not a pirate, does not appeal to people wanting to play as a pirate.

"To get the best experience, you go with your friends(hopefully in a 4 crew galleon) and do voyages and goof off."

What's your idea of goofing off? Getting sunk? Drinking grog? Griefing your crewmates? Steering your ship onto land?

That stuff gets old in 3 days, then you're back to taking the game seriously and wanting to goof off attacking ships, whether you succeed or not, because that's what is consistently fun and new for the majority of the playerbase... PvE only keeps the game alive for a limited amount of time, mate, but the PvP is what's gonna keep the game alive past that point. :)

By all means though, goof off any way you like, it's a sandbox game, you can do whatever you want. xD

"That's what the point of the game is about and how to get the best experience for this game."

In your opinion. The best experience i have of this game can be summarized in my first time playing this game, and one of the skeleton forts i did.

My First Experience:

I spawn on outpost solo, in the middle of a storm... I set sail not knowing it was a storm, i though it was just regular rain, lol...

The waves suddenly became insanely large once i left the outpost area, and i kept getting hols in my ship... That's when i figure out its a storm, lol... I have a seriously hectic time multitasking steering outside of the storm whiles keeping my boat floating... Laughing the entire time because it's an amazing first experience. xD

Skeleton fort:

Every ship on the server was there, fighting eachother for several hours, luckily, my own ship was maxed on supplies, and the other ships weren't. We ended up winning the fight for the skeleton fort after sinking 3 ships and causing the rest to give up. xD

After getting the treasure from skeleton fort, one of the ships that seemingly gave up, came back and started chasing us... We panicked and took to fortress skull and chest over board as we passed by an outpost, intending to deliver that in first, but the enemy ship predicted we would do that and jumped off as they passed the outpost too, they managed to take the fortress skull, but we luckily cashed in the fortress chest... In addition as the enemy ships crew jumped off, they didn't set their ship to sail straight, so it crashed and sunk while we were fighting over the fortress skull, leaving the rest of our on-ship treasure safe. That was fun! :D

It's also just piracy... If piracy isn't fun to you in a pirate game, then why keep playing the game? xD

"That is why I can wait patiently for content till it comes out because I am getting the most and best out of the game."

As i already mentioned, it's also a sandbox game, meaning you have freedom to play as you want... Congratulations on finding out what keeps you playing the game, and patient for the next update. :)

Everyone has their own way to play, there's no right or wrong way to play, lol.

"The [reason why this game will be a massive commercial failure] and why I Think People are Missing it"

Fixed it for you.

@mcdougle99 What?? You can have fun without seeing a number that says you get better at something? Why i outta! Irony may occur
People are just crying over anything these days (years), cause all they know and love are chests they can open and level rewards for playing a game. It's a viscious cycle and it really gets on your nerves when you've played like 3-4 of those games, and unlocked your 500th crate, just to find another pair of b******t pants you already had 10 times.

Woa... So they purpously made the game garbage, so you could create your own fun with nothing..!

Really made me think OP.

@tavishhill2003 "The point of the game is actually to forge memorable narratives that are player driven experiences."

Please tell me a game where this isn't the case... lol.

"And yes, you absolutely CAN play a game 'wrong' in the sense of playing it in ways antithetical to how it was designed to be experienced."

Sandbox, a kind of experience that implies total and complete freedom. I'd like to know how you can mess up a sandbox playstyle... Iduno, hacking/cheating? I guess that's about it. xD

@cpt-peach-beard said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

@gunnerdk said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

Players, now days seem groomed toward elitism - especially in the PC community.

Stopped reading when you showed prejudice to PC players

Roflmao - It's an opinion for one. Not entirely correct perhaps, but it's mine, and it's mutable.

- just the first sentence, seriously. Let alone the 29 cited references.

Because, my perception is clearly unfounded. I'm obviously just an obnoxious tool who thinks PC gamers are jerks. #sarcasm

I am a PC gamer, and actually play SoT on PC most often. Thus, I obviously don't mean to imply ALL pc gamers -_-

I find plenty of awesome PC gamers out there.

My posts tend to be walls of text so I'll back off a step, but I stand by my earlier posts.

@drewbob7 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

I think people are missing the point of the game. Rare made this game toward having fun with your friends and making new friends and exploring islands by doing voyages. If Rare wanted it to be all about sea battles, they would make it more realistic, with bigger crews, and more cannons, and more variety on weapons. You would fight someone every 5-10 mins or so. If you want that type of game, pre-order Skulls and Bones. I really am hyped for that part of being a pirate. It is not a game where there are massive islands to explore (see Elite Dangerous) where you can go on your own and have a peaceful experience immersed in a gigantic world. That's why solo slooping is very hard, you are in a game designed around being and working with your friends with no friends. That's why going with randoms doesn't always work, because some people might not ever be your friend or agree with you on your decisions/opinions. To get the best experience, you go with your friends(hopefully in a 4 crew galleon) and do voyages and goof off. That's what the point of the game is about and how to get the best experience for this game. That is why I can wait patiently for content till it comes out because I am getting the most and best out of the game.

There is a big contradiction within the very concept of the game, and thats what the "Can't we all just have fun exploring" crowd is missing.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PIRATES!

1. We created a world where there is treasure, you are encouraged to get it, it takes time and effort and that creates value in it.

2. You have a ship, it has cannons, you have guns and a sword.

3. You are a Pirate. You cheat and steal and kill so that you can take it from others.

OK... Now lets all play together and be friends.

See the problem?

Pirates are dishonest, seafaring murderer's who's motivation is money and immoral indulgence.

Maybe this crowd would like a vampire game where you hang out and dance at night, in a social experience where you have fun with friends instead of sucking the blood of victims and battling vampire hunters.

Or perhaps a Mafia game where instead of focusing on the drugs and murder you play as the shop keeper for a front business and have whacky adventures with your co workers.

The game is not called "Sea of Treasure Hunter's" It is call "Sea of Thieves"

There is a huge disconnect between trying to encourage friendly social play, regardless of whether you think that is a noble pursuit, within the context of a game based on savage, selfish, immoral anti-heroes.

@drewbob7 Met up with a gallon at a skull fort yesterday in our sloop and through diplomacy we split the fort.

A second gallion came up on us while we were loading up the treasure to shoot the ship we were in an alliance with so we broke off and engaged the new threat.
We cut off the enemy gallion letting it ram us knocking it off its pursuit course.

After some repair we headed for golden sands to meet up with our allies and while on the way we got to see the Kraken appear and start sinking the enemy gallion.

We all celebrated at the Inn drinking grog and telling sea stories.

We all got on my sloop and started sailing as a 6 man sloop.

We tried to make more friends with any other ships we could find.

We found an introvert playing solo sloop who wanted to get some pigs.

We sailed with him and helped fill his boat with pigs chickens.

We had fun :D

@Reirdon Yes but being friends with your crew helps a lot in those battles you have doesn't it? if all your crew hates each other, you wont get anything done.

To everyone: i am not telling you how to play the game! i am telling you how the game was designed to play, because i hear people complaining about it not having content, therefore it is not fun. I ask them questions, and they say they solo/random all the to 35+ each. That is very boring and people don't like it, so am only trying to explain how to get more fun. While i do agree better diplomacy options are needed, i am not saying that you should stop pvp. I am only telling people how to get more fun out of the game from personal experiences, i fact i even like pvp, but only if my fun does not detract from other people fun(i shoot only if shot at). hope this clarifys my intentions!

@drewbob7 I totally get that, the only way I play is with friends (super excited about the 4 person sloop coming) but even then there is so very little interaction between pirates. Make it so we can trade, (gold and items) I should be able to drop bananas and cannon balls, I should be able to give you money if I want. We should be able to play mini games together, gamble, throw dice. I wish there was an option to turn friendly fire off (crew vote). and or at least a crew dueling system This would open the door to so much more fun.

@drewbob7 said in The Point of The Game and why I Think People are Missing it:

@Reirdon Yes but being friends with your crew helps a lot in those battles you have doesn't it? if all your crew hates each other, you wont get anything done.

To everyone: i am not telling you how to play the game! i am telling you how the game was designed to play, because i hear people complaining about it not having content, therefore it is not fun. I ask them questions, and they say they solo/random all the to 35+ each. That is very boring and people don't like it, so am only trying to explain how to get more fun. While i do agree better diplomacy options are needed, i am not saying that you should stop pvp. I am only telling people how to get more fun out of the game from personal experiences, i fact i even like pvp, but only if my fun does not detract from other people fun(i shoot only if shot at). hope this clarifys my intentions!

What you are telling them is how YOU find more fun in the game. Your point is obvious, playing with friends is more fun, but a game should be fun for as many players as possible.

The things you find fun perhaps do not appeal to others so telling them what you do to enjoy the game does not help them. They do not like what you like.

I do not PvP unless I have to so I do not care about the PvP issues, other than irritating spawn kills.

Your comments remind me of a conversation I have often in my home state of Wisconsin, USA.

ME, "I do not like venison"

THEM, "Well you have never had it the way I cook it"

ME, "Venison is tough, gamey and while I understand the pride in eating an animal you harvested yourself, the flavor and texture is not appealing to me"

THEM, "Have you had it prepared in a smoker, I LOVE IT THAT WAY, you should try it like that, you would like it then"

It seems every post I make I get somebody telling me that I am not playing the game correctly or for the right reasons, and that the cure is to change my perspective to what other find enjoyable.

"If you just start to like venison you would really enjoy it like me, just do that and the meal is awesome"

@Reirdon I am trying to help people who have fun this way then. If it doesn't work, just say why it didn't work and then provide points to help people like you! Don't just try and prove why it is wrong by dissecting my OP, make a post to tell me what to add on/ how you have fun in this game, and I will probably update the OP!
@Deadlock-Ganj I do agree with you, it is a bit clunky. But doesn't every game have something clunky/ doesn't work as intended when starting off? (probably not but you know...) it does need a before game hub of pirates.