Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...

The ships themselves and what they can or cant do isnt the issue. The real issue is having more players on either ship.

The naval combat is great. And as its been said many times, if your crew gets sunk, you did something wrong or were outplayed.

The big issue with adding more players to a ship is the foot combat. The "on foot" pvp is pretty wonky in my opinion. I can 1-shot a player with a blunderbus one minute and then the next enemy i encounter requires 3 shots.

With added crew sizes to 1 or both of these ships would be chaotic. Every battle would require a boarding action unless both parties were okay with sailing around until supplies ran out... every... single... battle.

And because of the wonky foot combat/hit boxes this would be infuriating to me.

Wonky foot patrol aside, most players dont have 4-8 friends to man a ship. Most players arent "good". Most of the battles ive been in usually devlove into 1-all enemies jumping into the water to get on my boat. Now account for the added 2-4 players.... thats gonna be a lot of michael phelps wannabes flippering around in the water. Which leads to more wonky foot combat. LOL

I can actually count on one hand, since the beta, that ive had a legit naval battle.... supplies ran out, we(both ships) got tired of mermaiding with supplies, and one or the other said F this and pulled the anchor just to have the deck battle and get it over with.

Adding more people to fix, drive, angle, shoot, and jump overboard sounds terrible and exciting at the same time.

Im torn...

@trickrtreat01

Boats spawning further away after being sunk is a knee jerk reaction.

Maybe.. but it was the right reaction.

4 man sloop? Are they crazy? Worst Rare's idea!

Hey, at least knee jerk reactions are content.

@sir-rhavi said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

@lumpaywk said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

@sir-rhavi said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

@lumpaywk said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

@capt-gnashmaw said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

@trickrtreat01 neither of those are knee jerk reactions. MANY people were asking for the respawn to be fixed, because it was (and kinda still is) a major issue, which increasing minimum spawn distance helped. And I remember hearing that they've been planning the 4 man sloop for a while.

The spawn further away has made a single issue slightly better while making it much worse for others. This is knee jerk and stupid there are other ways to deal with the spawn attacks at forts.
Now innocent players are left miles from there voyage locations when sunk or left unable to locate and fight to win back there chests if blindsided. This would be fair play i guess if there wasn't already a huge balance issue with the game and even worse for solo players who cant leave someone to watch there ship when on islands.
The spawn distance was a foolish rushed and unthoughtful move that has created more issues than the slight semi fix it was requested for.

This is defo the same level of thinking that creates the 4 man sloop, sure you want it because it will make your 4 man team untouchable. This is because the sloop is already designed to hep fix the gap between it and the galleon but once you add a full crew you have a death machine that will give pve and solo even duo teams no chance. The argument that they can 4 man it as well is just junk and i wont even entertain that sort of short sighted foolish answer. Also pvp will become pointless cos all solo or duos players will just leave and pvp will end up unsinkable ships till the game is an empty graveyard.

you missed the point entirely here, if you got "blindsighted" and "snuck up on" and sank and lost your treasure, that was YOUR MISTAKE, you should not have a second chance to get it back on a FREE FRESH SHIP WITH SUPPLIES. Why do you feel entitled to try and win back what you lost? its called LOST for a reason, they didnt borrow your treasure, you LOST it, it is GONE.

innocent players are left miles away from their voyages? Well how about the other side of that coin? I'd be willing to sink a solo sloop over and over till he quits if the spawn went back to the way it was, sink him once, look up and see where he spawned, sail there and sink him again, now ill sink him once and have no idea where he is, he can escape, he can go on with his game, did you think about that?

nobody had an issue sailing away from an attack with the old distance. if they did its because they assumed they wouldnt be attacked again and sailed right backnat the other ship.
while your right to a degree solo players cant akways keep an eye on the ship or they will never secure a quest. the new spawn system is flawed works agaisnt casual and solo players and thats just a fact. either way its done now and tbh there is much bigger issues but its more that this is a VERY bad indicator of how Rare will add changes and people are already leaving the game if they keep up this please the hardcore at the expense of casual players the game is as good as dead. look at the new plans for ships its a bad joke. either way its a game its starting to loss its fun and become a fight. if thats what it will be its fine i hope you enjoy it i am just voicing concern in the hope it can be saved. spawns are a small issue its more what it indicates thats the worry.

no, you are wrong. If you spawn an island away I CAN and WILL catch you if i want to, there is nowhere you can run if you are only an island away, the map is not that big, you will eventually have to turn to avoid the edge of the map and i will catch you, scuttle your ship? oh, an island away again, back to the chase i go.

trust me, this has happend to me before, i spent a solid 5 hours trying to lose a sloop, and since every time i sank him or scuttled my own ship, i was an island away with NO TIME to do ANY of the voyages.

the respawn now works GREAT. you should never have the chance to recover what you lost if you sank. stop whining about it and learn from your mistakes. If it was up to me you should spawn on a different server so you never even have to see the other players again, but alas, out of visual range is as good as we're going to get it.

nobody had an issue you say? and yet people calling against griefers were the top posts on the forums and on reddit, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and i am 110% sure you are one of those people who kept sailing straight back at a fort just to ram your ship and die until the enemy ran out of supplies, and now you are sad because you cant do that anymore.

Not really forts are not a good reward for time spent unless your in a crew. They become a time hole and your better sailing the other way and raiding the ship wrecks that are now left for you by the people fighting for the fort.
I never said nobody had an issue I said the spawn distance wasn't the issue when it comes to griefers and it hardly fixes the issue. Its a knee jerk reaction and that's the problem not the actual spawns anyway. Its a fix that hardly fixes the issue makes life worse for solo players who just want to do quests. Its very minor thing in reality but its a bad omen is all.

@all-the-rage Or just redesign it so the helmsman can see where they're going and raising/lowering the sails takes half as long. That would solve pretty much every problem related to galleon crewing in my opinion.

@cheekhugger said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

@all-the-rage Or just redesign it so the helmsman can see where they're going and raising/lowering the sails takes half as long. That would solve pretty much every problem related to galleon crewing in my opinion.

Transparent sails that are half the weight?

@lumpaywk Just make the masts taller, like they are on actual galleons of similar sizes. There was still several feet of visibility. Those huge galleons meant to be crewed by like 30 men had those giant center sails that blocked the helmsman, but not on small galleons like the kind in this game.

@cheekhugger yeah but isnt the whole point that each ship is meant to have more jobs than people and that you supposed to need other crew members to help navigate. As it is when sailing half the crew just sits about. The sloop is fine with viability so i don't see the issue. Your supposed to sail not point in a direction and click go.

@lumpaywk No I understand, and agree somewhat, but a four man crew is still too busy merely navigating galleons as it stands. Provide a bit of visibility and make it so lowering or raising sails in a pinch doesn't require the entire crew and I think it would make the game far more enjoyable.

While we're on the topic, two people should be able to raise that anchor more quickly as well.

4 man sloops ? the death of solo players.

@cheekhugger said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

@lumpaywk No I understand, and agree somewhat, but a four man crew is still too busy merely navigating galleons as it stands. Provide a bit of visibility and make it so lowering or raising sails in a pinch doesn't require the entire crew and I think it would make the game far more enjoyable.

While we're on the topic, two people should be able to raise that anchor more quickly as well.

Oh yeah sails raising and anchor should be a quicker, The sails adjustments deffo, anchor should be faster the more you add but yeah 2 men should be able to get that thing up just fine. I just think if there should be team work required for basic navigation otherwise whats is the point. As it is serious crews just use 2 people to sail and navigate while they shoot the other 2 from cannons at islands raking in the resources as the pass.

@lumpaywk I think it comes down to how much is going on on a galleon for me? One to spot/help navigate, someone to run about checking the map when needs be, two people working the sails, then everyone abandoning post for emergencies. It seems like the current galleon was designed for six people, not four. And when half of all rando's stand around doing nothing without a mic, well.... sometimes a game needs to be designed around that sort of player inactivity/ineptitude.

@the-song42 In reality galleons where very large ships of their time. Galleons could have 45 to 50 on a small crew and upwards of 400 on a large crew.

The boat spawning further away is a good thing, although could be improved further by boats not re-spawning with supplies. The pace of engagements was way too high at launch, so just because it is a knee-jerk doesn't mean it is bad.

4-man sloops is an awful idea, death cost is an awful idea, ships re-spawning with damage is an awful idea, so are lots of other things people are asking for because they aren't able to 'dominate' people in the game. Which is to say, they are complaining about things that are working as intended. Changing stuff like that without careful consideration will drive other players away, and once driven away they are unlikely to come back even if things are fixed in the future because they will have stopped following the game.

@cheekhugger The problem is crew numbers and how well those crews can run their ships. I mostly duo sloop and there are 4 man galleon crews out there, that can manage the galleon as well as we do our sloop. That's when the balance issues start to show themselves. It's not a huge difference, but it is enough to turn the tide of battle.

Taking cannon fire on a sloop is not the same as a galleon. I've mentioned this in other posts. The two ships don't even take damage on an equal level. The sloop leaks from every shot, the galleon only those below the water line. Sloops can't go broadside with a galleon. Yet a good galleon crew can turret the ship, keeping you broadside at all times or forcing you to flee. Add in the additional crew that they can actually spare in a tense battle for boarding and and these things start to add up.

I'm not saying the galleon needs a nerf as I play galleon too, but something has to be done to address the balance issues the ships face in combat. The problem or misconceptions of what ships can do usually comes down to the crew. You constantly hear people say I can sink a galleon solo. Let me be the first to tell you, sure you can sink a terrible crew of any ship. It takes a really good sloop crew to face off againt a mediocre galleon crew. If you find yourself in battle with an excellent galleon crew, your chances of sinking it, even if you maintain near perfect positioning and land hits more than they do are slim to none. It can be done but you are looking a long battle of attrition.

Adding more people to ships in their current state isn't going to balance anything. It's just going to make the situation worse.

@zep-darkwater I agree with you. I was just posting about how involved the mere management of a galleon crew is (with allusions to how more difficult it becomes when you're stuck with randos - even one - who aren't helpful).

@cheekhugger I can't imagine fighting a serious battle with a random crew. I can only imagine its a nightmare. I wasn't trying to dismiss the issues you brought up, just pointing out what an organized crew is capable up. I've seen what random crews can do or rather not do. I was merely trying to point out the two ships balance in the hands of very capable crews.

@all-the-rage

Sorry if your 4 player crew cannot handle a Galleon that’s on you guys.

4 man sloops is a basically taking all sailing and team work from the game.

I can see it now.. Two players on the front with explosive barrels ramming Galleons while the other two repair the much smaller sloop.

Cannons will not see the light of day.

Bring a new 3 player ship.

I have no problem with the current crew sizes and I think I'll enjoy it a lot less with bigger crews. When I want to play with my friends even though I hate the galleon we just befriend a sloop and I ride with them and pay them all the extras I find on the island. I think a lot of the fixes are made to make the game easier and it's kinda ridiculous. I do like ships spawning further away though as it doesn't make sense to fight the same crew over and over and lose just because they run you out of supplies

@biter-wylie As I said there are some legitimate balance issues, but if Rare adds 4 man sloops they will be making a huge mistake. I wouldn't mind seeing a 3 player ship, but I hope they can actually balance the ones they have before they add more.

I agree with a majority of the OP, though not all.

I was surprised to learn about the notion of a 4-Crew Sloop. That is very discouraging to me, as I primarily sail Solo. And I believe a 2-Crew Sloop is already better than a 4-Crew Galleon...now we're talking doubling those numbers on the same vessels? I do not like it.

I also do not like the respawn fix. Again, I play a lot of Solo. I enjoy the cat and mouse aspect of the Solo experience. But now I can't do missions on an Island if I already have loot, because someone will come by and sink me and spawn me across the map. My loot will sink to the bottom before I can possibly get back in time. All because some entitled forumites whined loud enough about Skull Forts (ONE feature in this beautiful pixelated world).

So I am curious, as much as I love this game, am I doomed? Is Rare killing the Solo experience already? I have a solid crew of RL friends, but often I just want to escape reality and play a video game.
It is generally understood that the mass majority of gamers do not actually use forums. Or Reddit. It's not hard to see. Just compare sales numbers to forum accounts. Extremely lopsided ratio, I'm sure.
Few people get online to write a rant post about how much they love their experience. It is generally only angry people that want to vent.

So, thanks I guess? All of us happy consumers (the majority) can kick rocks, I suppose...

@kigretheviking said in Please Rare, don't ruin the game with knee jerk reactions...:

"Boats spawning further away after being sunk is a knee jerk reaction."

Not a knee jerk reaction. The majority hated the respawn mechanic. Alot.
And now, most people are ok with the distance, maybe a bit further even. We had one galleon comming back really fast and yes, it was the same we just sunk.

4 man sloop? Are we getting a 4 man sloop? I dont think so. That would be insanely overpowered.

I think your post is a knee jerk reaction.

Well said.

I made a quite long post in this thread (1st page) about why 4 man sloop is a terrible idea. Atm we are NOT getting it, some folks claim it's official but they have only talked about it. So it's not black & white on paper and Rare knows the idea is a hot topic on the forums. Some find it's a good change but I honestly think (me included) that it's not a good idea and I don't just rant, I support my posts with some thoughts, examples and explaining it why it's not a good idea.

Compared to all those who simply say "me want, please add, ty" without any real reason to why. +1 from me.

@dr-killjoy147

I think pvp is the most tedious part of the game in all honestly... wouldn't miss it if it left.

Oh man! If PVP is tedious that doesn't leave us much in terms of gameplay since "questing" is about as dull as it can get.

OP have to disagree with the boats spawning further out... that is working nicely.

We do not have 4 man sloops and are very unlikely to get them. Rare has a plan and they are listening, but they are not in a hurry to make major design changes.