PvP is ruining this game???

  • Though I do enjoy the PvP in this game, there are a lot of issues I wish to address.

    Griefing. I know in the March 26 developer update this was touched on by one of the devs, so I won't go much into it. But I will say that after just wanting to explore and complete voyages and racking up a ton of loot, and then getting finally getting to an Outpost to trade in all my plunder subsequently getting ambushed by a four-man crew and losing all of it is one of the most frustrating things I have ever encountered. It is actually making me not want to play this game. Also, a few days ago I was with a group of friends and we were finally doing the skull island raid. We had finally completed all the waves of skeletons, and then another fou-man ship comes in and starts attacking. That's all well and good, it's part of the game and I was good with a little more extra challenge to get our hard-earned loot. We had the key, we finally sunk their ship, so we should be good right? WRONG. They attack again. And again. And again. We were running out of resources, and they were getting more every time we sunk their ship and they came back. Finally, after wasting two hours of our time fighting the skeletons and the same crew a million times, they finally all kill us, the key is lost, and everything that we did was wasted.

    All in all, my crew and I have had long discussions about what should be done about this. We obviously can't avoid it at this point in the game, so we all agree to lay low until this griefing and trolling PvP system is more secure. So here are the options we have discussed, not exclusively at the same time or in the same place but just ideas:

    • PvP and PvE specific servers (which sounds pretty game-ruining but hear me out) but there are higher rewards in PvP for completing voyages and rewards added in for taking out other players and their ships to give an incentive for playing in a PvP environment. Such as, more quests to gather certain objects from players (hats, eyepatches, peglegs, all copies of the items, of course) and turning them in for gold and reputation. Or just gaining gold and rep when killing another player or sinking a ship (I also think we just need these rewards in the game in general).

    • When a ship sinks, those players who own the ship can no longer have another ship in that server until they die, then their crew and their ship are transferred to another server to play in. Alternatively, when the ship sinks, all players instantly die and are transferred to a new server. This would fix the problem with the same people attacking the same crew over and over again.

    • Creating a "safe mode" where players have the option to opt out of PvP on that server and can't interact with other players unless that mode is turned off. The rewards listed above is another incentive to have this "safe mode" turned off.

    • Improving the pirate-to-pirate combat, such as swordfighting and gun fights. The ship based fights are really what makes this game and it works very well, but the rest is absolute garbage. The swings on the sword feel clunky, the charged swing is inconsistent, the blunderbuss is probably the most OP weapon in the game, and sniper head shots do the same amount of damage as any other body shot and pistol shot. If I land a head shot on someone, from my rocking ship, onto their rocking ship, which a gun that had a cracked lens for a scope, I expect to have some significant damage done to that person, even if it wasn't a headshot. That's a pretty hard shot to hit, especially for console players. Maybe giving players the option to upgrade their weapons instead of just cosmetic skins.

    Anyway, these are just some ideas that me and my friends have all suggested to perhaps make this game and the PvP a little more fun and enjoyable, and hopefully not make me and my crew rage quit after 2 hours of gameplay. And, with this being a discussion forum, I would like to know more ideas, more feedback, more comments. These options, after all, aren't absolute and are just opinions, but I want to know what the community thinks.

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  • Pretty much all of this can be solved if they fix the spawn system.

  • ..and partly changing the reward system for quests.

    There's no, "NO" need for separate PVE servers.

  • the two above explains already what needs to be fixed with little to no detail.

    Increasing the reputation gained from voyages would give it and Forts two very distinct pros against one another, one would award more gold while the other awards more reputation, something that becomes more time consuming to grind in the long run.

    currently it is why server hoping for forts are so popular, due to the RNG in high value items you can get out of all crates, chests, trinkets and skulls that are generated together with the guaranteed Fort chest and skull.

  • Here is my issue with what you are posting.

    First off you posted "But I will say that after just wanting to explore and complete voyages and racking up a ton of loot, and then getting finally getting to an Outpost to trade in all my plunder subsequently getting ambushed by a four-man crew and losing all of it is one of the most frustrating things I have ever encountered." Judging by this statement you chose to solo a sloop and load it with tons of loot. You then chose to sail to an outpost where you didn't use any of the tools provided to you to see if there were any ships or mermaids hanging out near the outpost. That is the number one mistake to never make playing a sloop. It is all about being alert and on the defensive.

    Secondly, Why should they be banished to another server? How p****d would you be have a ship full of treasure to be banished to another server knowing that you have no chance of ever getting it back. I would much rather they be forced to spawn a little further away. Also, there are many reasons that a ship might sink, especially when dealing with a Skull Fort. To banish them to another server and erase any progress they have made is stupid. Also, what system determines a ship should be banished to another server?

    Finally, PVE servers will never work. What you are saying is you want to be a pirate without ever having to face any of the troubles that pirates may have faced. Essentially you just want a way to easily level up. Safe mode falls into this same category. This game is built so that you are at an equal level as everyone else. The only thing that separates you is you skill at being a pirate. Your ability/crew's ability to manage a ship and you ability to handle a sword (I will agree the melee combat needs improvement, although most of the other weapons feel pretty balanced based on aim and distance).

  • @nesquikee PvE servers only invites trolls who would create more destruction then the pirates that take your stuff and sink your ship in PvP, at least in PvP you can retaliate, there is nothing that stops trolls from taking your stuff if you can't fight them in PvE servers, and don't even ask about how toxic everyone would be about gunpowder barrels in such a PvE environments, PvE servers would do more harm to the game then anything good.

  • @nesquikee Another idea to solve the problem, would be, that a new ship (not the first one) would spawn without any cannonballs and bananas...so you've got more time to get away...

  • I'm not usually a PvP person with mmo's more a PvE, but saying that I find PvP is a big part of this game and keeps you on your toes, It makes you keep your eyes open and play the game watching your surroundings more than ever. As a newbie and just starting out, I've already encountered a few attacks on my ship and lost it a few times with gold in the hull. But each time this happens I get more and more watchful of were I am and who's around if anything it keeps you in suspense and wary of your surroundings. If I see another ship moored up at an island I'm going to, I'll either moor up further out at see and wait for them to b****r off, or I'll moor up closer and swim to their ship and pinch some goodies and top up my own ship. it's good how your made to watch your surroundings.

  • @ancienttheron Please note. When i said that the reward system needs to be partly changed i mean how much but also how the reward should be distributed.

    I feel the reputation for quests should be detached from the value of the chests, and tied to the complexity of the voyage. And should be awarded to the player who made the voyage, at the end of the voyage, not to the player who turned the chest in.

    I understand the RND of the voyage prevents players from farming newbies allowing everyone to play with everyone, but at higher level it's frustrating.

  • No PvE servers. Period. It will KILL this game

  • @happyalbe The problem is that the value of items you gain from voyages are about the same as getting it out of a similar item, wears its a captains chest, villainous skull or exquisite spice/gold creature it would provide the same value in general, both in gold and reputation.

    Due to the amount of items that are generated in a stash for forts you frequently end up gaining more reputation from server hoping for forts instead of doing actual voyages but its a waste of your time if you can't defeat anyone that's first on the spot who's always 2 steps ahead of you, which is a unhealthy method of grinding once you realize that.

    Branding the items gained from voyages with a boost in reputation solves that issue, as you can then see that Forts generate more gold while Voyages provides more reputation and grants a larger sense of variation to your daily adventures.

  • @sigourneybeever said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    No PvE servers. Period. It will KILL this game

    Kinda how everyone stopped playing World of Warcraft because of PvE servers... ELLIPSIS

  • @ancienttheron yeah, sure, but I still think that reputation should be tied to complete voyages, not turning in items.

    The method the first legend used, for example, reflects exactly how to exploit this mechanic, and should be avoided.

  • Here's a suggestion. Sail with me and the iron fleet, and we'll show you how to over come all of these obstacles. I mean in my last play session with them we finished a fort 2/3 through before, no BS, 4 galleys and a sloop started hunting us. We still managed to retrieve our loot and turn it in within relatively short order.

  • @theskunkburner said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @sigourneybeever said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    No PvE servers. Period. It will KILL this game

    Kinda how everyone stopped playing World of Warcraft because of PvE servers... ELLIPSIS

    Because WoW is somehow comparable to a sandbox game with only 16 players and no campaign at all... Right?

  • @happyalbe I think this would probably go a long way into balancing the experience for both sides. The "thieves" still get their precious gold, while the "adventurers" that actually did the work get reputation for a "voyage complete."

  • I keep reading the same c**p over and over, but the truth is

    1. pve servers or a safe place will not ruin the game, this is a fallacy in a game world that only requires 23 other people to play it. Also there is no reward in the game that you can earn that changes the game dynamics. So if you become a pirate legend on a proposed pve server or a proposed pvp server or the existing pvpve server environment, this does not change anything fundamentality for anyone. The only deciding factor in becoming pirate legend is time. The only viable reason for anyone to care what someone else has done or become is jealousy. plain and simple! With a game environment of only 23 other active people and millions of players, the actual chances of running into the same person twice is astronomical. They could enable all three server types and a player wouldn't notice any difference til there was less than 24 people interested in each type of server. Then again if the population actual got that low the game most likely would be shut down to never be turned on again.

    Another fallacy is that you have to even engage in pvp to gain legendary status.

    A. always join a 4 man crew, always have a mic, always turn in loot before amassing large quantities and keep one guy watching for enemy pirates. See pirate, run to port closest to you but furthest from them til your a pirate legend

    b. server hop or crew hop and when you find a crew turning in loot, gain gold and rep..then just server hop til ya find the next crew turning in til your a pirate legend

    c. just log on and put a rubberband on your controller, turn your tv input and watch tv, check back occasionally to see if the crew is being active, and eventually you'll be a pirate legend with out ever playing the game.

    The only real truth with this discussion is that a vast amount of players are unhappy with the current environment. Unhappy people loose interest. Uninterested people leave games. Less players equals less money for further content. less further content means less players. more players are unhappy with game, more players loose interest, more uninterested players leave the game, less players equal less money for further content....and the cycle continues!

    The simple fact that people can't look past their own self interests to realize any of what I have stated here is daunting to me.

    ps. after three days of play in the current environment I stopped playing, I had an outfit worth 70,ooo gold or more, my repp was 25/28/19 or something and I never had a single treasure stolen from me! The only actual pvp combat I took part in was by my choice. In the current environment, I could of made pirate legend without any pvp. So why should you care how? or how anyone else did? or how this even effects you? However, there is a huge player base that doesn't like pvp, why does it bother anyone else how they enjoy the game.
    Personally, I think it be fun to be able to play this with my grandchildren, exploring the beautiful world, taking out skeletons, digging up treasures, sailing the seas, solving riddle, avoiding the tentacle duck hunt game, and sailing through a violent storm playing a shanty with my grandkids laughing my a**e off and having fun! While not having to deal with griefers, not having to sail back between each quest wasting the little precious time I do get to play, not having to get chased across the map for the empty chicken coop I have on board!

  • @theskunkburner yup. like literally ANY other game.

  • Dude the PVP is the only thing keeping this game alive atm due to the lack of content if PVP bothers you perhaps you should go play hello kitty online adventures I think theirs no PVP in that snowflake land.

  • @blackbeard-lufy I'd like to take you up on that!

  • @nesquikee

    I feel sorry for you if you only have fun when the game tells you "nice job, here's your cookie."

  • PvP is saving this game.

  • @ancienttheron said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @nesquikee PvE servers only invites trolls who would create more destruction then the pirates that take your stuff and sink your ship in PvP, at least in PvP you can retaliate, there is nothing that stops trolls from taking your stuff if you can't fight them in PvE servers, and don't even ask about how toxic everyone would be about gunpowder barrels in such a PvE environments, PvE servers would do more harm to the game then anything good.

    Do you even know how a PvE server works. Yeah, there would be no one taking your stuff because they can't pick it up outside your group.

    Gunpowder? No splash damage to other PvE players.

    You're not at all understanding the concept of PvE.

  • PvP is literally the reason this game even exists. Yes there are PvE elements(barely) but what makes the entire world so exciting is that its non-scripted and anything can happen between point A and B. If you don't want that, well then quite frankly you should not have bought this game, and you only have yourself to blame. Rare has always been completely open with what this game is about for years.

  • @neller2000 said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @ancienttheron said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @nesquikee PvE servers only invites trolls who would create more destruction then the pirates that take your stuff and sink your ship in PvP, at least in PvP you can retaliate, there is nothing that stops trolls from taking your stuff if you can't fight them in PvE servers, and don't even ask about how toxic everyone would be about gunpowder barrels in such a PvE environments, PvE servers would do more harm to the game then anything good.

    Do you even know how a PvE server works. Yeah, there would be no one taking your stuff because they can't pick it up outside your group.

    Gunpowder? No splash damage to other PvE players.

    You're not at all understanding the concept of PvE.

    Ah what a naive soul.

    On said server a galleon follows you around , ramming you , continually.

    Not to damage you , no damage involved , simply to p**s you off. And you can do nothing to stop them.

    Unless you mean now they have to code even more separate things for no collision between ship models for the PVE servers , and so on. Then they have to keep and test separate patches for PVE and PVP from then on , thus slowly down new features even more.

    They should spend ZERO development time on PVE servers and spend it on adding new things to the current game.

  • @shofficer I happen to think cookies are delicious. I don't feel sorry for em even though I enjoy more than just that. :)

    At the end of it all, aren't we all just turning in loot for golden cookies to buy cosmetic things in a video game that has no real meaning other than fun?

    One of my favorite parts of PvP is when two crews sink each other a couple times, shake hands after like it was old-timey schoolyard fisticuffs, and go take a skull fort down together. I also enjoy the hell out of just sailing and finding neat spots and not seeing a single other person at all. To each their own, I say!

  • @neller2000 said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @ancienttheron said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @nesquikee PvE servers only invites trolls who would create more destruction then the pirates that take your stuff and sink your ship in PvP, at least in PvP you can retaliate, there is nothing that stops trolls from taking your stuff if you can't fight them in PvE servers, and don't even ask about how toxic everyone would be about gunpowder barrels in such a PvE environments, PvE servers would do more harm to the game then anything good.

    Do you even know how a PvE server works. Yeah, there would be no one taking your stuff because they can't pick it up outside your group.

    Gunpowder? No splash damage to other PvE players.

    You're not at all understanding the concept of PvE.

    There's no such thing as treasure ownership in SoT. They would have to implement a ton of mechanics to keep your treasure safe from other people taking it or following you around and claiming it before you can.

    You guys don't seem to understand how the game's design doesn't simply allow for a "PvP off switch" without major programming overhauls.

  • @dahkohtlewin said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @neller2000 said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @ancienttheron said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @nesquikee PvE servers only invites trolls who would create more destruction then the pirates that take your stuff and sink your ship in PvP, at least in PvP you can retaliate, there is nothing that stops trolls from taking your stuff if you can't fight them in PvE servers, and don't even ask about how toxic everyone would be about gunpowder barrels in such a PvE environments, PvE servers would do more harm to the game then anything good.

    Do you even know how a PvE server works. Yeah, there would be no one taking your stuff because they can't pick it up outside your group.

    Gunpowder? No splash damage to other PvE players.

    You're not at all understanding the concept of PvE.

    Ah what a naive soul.

    On said server a galleon follows you around , ramming you , continually.

    Not to damage you , no damage involved , simply to p**s you off. And you can do nothing to stop them.

    Unless you mean now they have to code even more separate things for no collision between ship models for the PVE servers , and so on. Then they have to keep and test separate patches for PVE and PVP from then on , thus slowly down new features even more.

    They should spend ZERO development time on PVE servers and spend it on adding new things to the current game.

    Oh wow, ram away all you like. I'll laugh all the way to the turn in with my chests.

    Are you people totally oblivious to how PvE multiplayer games work?

    Development time on a PvE server? You open an option to join a server that has PvP damage turned off, very simple. You're totally overthinking and over complicating things to a point where you almost seem like a stubborn child.

  • @rayfromjersey said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @neller2000 said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @ancienttheron said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @nesquikee PvE servers only invites trolls who would create more destruction then the pirates that take your stuff and sink your ship in PvP, at least in PvP you can retaliate, there is nothing that stops trolls from taking your stuff if you can't fight them in PvE servers, and don't even ask about how toxic everyone would be about gunpowder barrels in such a PvE environments, PvE servers would do more harm to the game then anything good.

    Do you even know how a PvE server works. Yeah, there would be no one taking your stuff because they can't pick it up outside your group.

    Gunpowder? No splash damage to other PvE players.

    You're not at all understanding the concept of PvE.

    There's no such thing as treasure ownership in SoT. They would have to implement a ton of mechanics to keep your treasure safe from other people taking it or following you around and claiming it before you can.

    You guys don't seem to understand how the game's design doesn't simply allow for a "PvP off switch" without major programming overhauls.

    You can be pretty positive during the programming of this game, for testing purposes or whatnot, that such a "switch" already exists.

  • PVP is not ruining this game, it is in fact one of the things that makes it exciting.

    You can avoid PVP if you want to OP. Just use the tools provided or do some research.

  • @nesquikee "finally getting to an Outpost to trade in all my plunder subsequently getting ambushed by a four-man crew and losing all of it is one of the most frustrating things I have ever encountered. It is actually making me not want to play this game."

    Roflmao... That's the whole point of the game... The treasure isn't yours until you've cashed it in, mate. Name of the game is Sea of THIEVES! jeez...

    The PvP is actually the main part of the game, seeing as eveything in the game is centered around it, the lore, the mechanics, etc. The PvE produces treasure which incentivizes the PvP, if this ruins the game for you, why did you even buy the game to begin with? This is what the game is, what the game is meant to be, you bought this game and now you are complaining that you got EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR?! You're insane, man! o_o

    "Finally, after wasting two hours of our time fighting the skeletons and the same crew a million times, they finally all kill us, the key is lost, and everything that we did was wasted."

    This is a valid issue that i believe rare is aware of and trying to find a solution for it.

    "We obviously can't avoid it at this point in the game, so we all agree to lay low until this griefing and trolling PvP system is more secure."

    I'm sorry, care to mention some examples of griefing, because the only thing you've talked about is PvP, which is not griefing.

    You described an aspect of the PvP that was flawed and needed to be toned down abit... That is all.

    Griefers give people grief through SABOTAGE, such as intentionally glitching events to prevent anyone on the server from doing it, or intentionally destroying your own crews ship, etc... PvP is not griefing, end of story, stop using that as a buzzword to further your arguments, it's intellectually dishonest.

    "PvP and PvE specific servers"

    No, it's a PvPvE game, you bought it, you signed up for it, this is what the game is... Deal with it. Rare said they weren't going to separate the playerbase in that manner, so it's not going to happen... Rare won't conform to the delicate sensibilities of a minority, an extremely NAIVE minority.

    "(which sounds pretty game-ruining but hear me out)"

    Kay.

    "but there are higher rewards in PvP for completing voyages and rewards added in for taking out other players and their ships to give an incentive for playing in a PvP environment."

    So your genius, non-gamebreaking idea is to make PvE servers where 50% of the content is removed, and there is no PvP to spice things up, so those servers turn the game into a long-a*s boring fetch-quest farming area where there is no risk-vs-reward which is what the game is meant to be about?

    Congratulations, you made the same exact suggestion you said you weren't going to make, which would destroy the game. Please, please truly contemplate what you're about to say before you say it, please.

    "When a ship sinks, those players who own the ship can no longer have another ship in that server until they die"

    Wouldn't change much.

    "then their crew and their ship are transferred to another server to play in."

    That would create more server issues on top of the ones we already have, think before you speak.

    "This would fix the problem with the same people attacking the same crew over and over again."

    Yeah it certainly would, seeing as the servers would be choking on excessive login inputs and die every 5 minutes, preventing players from playing the game altogether. So yeah it fixes the problem in the sense that is removes the relevancy of the problem altogether.

    Again, think before you speak.

    "Creating a "safe mode" where players have the option to opt out of PvP on that server and can't interact with other players unless that mode is turned off."

    Crew goes around, plundering and pillaging, when crew suddenly decides they have enough treasure... "safe mode" then cash in treasure.

    Honestly, i've debunked the exact same arguments multiple times on forums created by whiners like you, rare really needs to nerf the spawn rate of whiners, perhaps have them spawn on different forums when their arguments are debunked! l**o! xD

    "Improving the pirate-to-pirate combat, such as swordfighting and gun fights."

    Bug fixes and quality improvements, absolutely, i agree!

    "Maybe giving players the option to upgrade their weapons instead of just cosmetic skins."

    And of course you ruin it by suggesting another thing Rare said wasn't going to be in the game... stop this madness, your have an obvious ulterior motive for these suggestions, they're clearly not made for the good of the game but for the good of your own personal benefit.

    Everybody should be on an equal playing field in a PvP game, end of story. You want an advantage over other players? Only skill and experience will get you there, sorry to burst your bubble.

    "and hopefully not make me and my crew rage quit after 2 hours of gameplay."

    Wanna know a trick? Consider that the treasure isn't really yours until you've cashed it in, and manage your expectations around this FACT.

    Makes the game way more fun and also makes it easier to avoid getting ragey enough to quit the game.

  • Pvp and pve specific servers would ruin the purpose of this game. It’s not a pirate game without the risk of getting abushed the same as you do other people. If anything you just need to play smarter. There is no pirate game with pvp and pve in one. If anything they just make adjustments to the respawn.

  • I don't understand why you just didn't take loot and sail away after you sunk the enemy ship. If it is the same galleon over again you have at least 5-10 minutes before they get back to same spot where they died. Just take treasure and sail away. If you chose to stay at fort fighting and keeping the key instead of taking treasure I don't see the point you complain about.

  • All I see in these forums is more of what I see in the actual game. People insulting one another and a total lack of respect for others. Most of you that say the PvE will ruin the game, or that you just don't know what your doing. (Please remember I said some, not all of you are probably like this.) I am pretty sure just don't want PvE out of the fear that all the "easy" targets will be unavailable to you now. I have played solo since 3 days after launch. This is a choice I made not out of want but necessity. I was never placed in a gallon crew who wanted to do the voyages, only hunt down sloops kill the crew and sink the ship. Not take loot or anything. Then do it again.
    So now I play solo. I have never been able to do a fort raid, I avoid every shop i see. I have had encounters with I can't remember how many ships, only three I can remember as actual friendly crews. That is just sad coming from a game that first and foremost has talked about COMUNITY and PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT. By telling us we are wrong for wanting PvE, or telling us we should be playing a different game. You are just proving our point that this game lacks the two main core attributes that rare has claimed this game to be about since the beginning. And to those who want to tell me I am wrong, I am terribly sorry other people have an alternate view to your and want to speak there mind about it.

  • @neller2000 said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @dahkohtlewin said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @neller2000 said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @ancienttheron said in PvP is ruining this game???:

    @nesquikee PvE servers only invites trolls who would create more destruction then the pirates that take your stuff and sink your ship in PvP, at least in PvP you can retaliate, there is nothing that stops trolls from taking your stuff if you can't fight them in PvE servers, and don't even ask about how toxic everyone would be about gunpowder barrels in such a PvE environments, PvE servers would do more harm to the game then anything good.

    Do you even know how a PvE server works. Yeah, there would be no one taking your stuff because they can't pick it up outside your group.

    Gunpowder? No splash damage to other PvE players.

    You're not at all understanding the concept of PvE.

    Ah what a naive soul.

    On said server a galleon follows you around , ramming you , continually.

    Not to damage you , no damage involved , simply to p**s you off. And you can do nothing to stop them.

    Unless you mean now they have to code even more separate things for no collision between ship models for the PVE servers , and so on. Then they have to keep and test separate patches for PVE and PVP from then on , thus slowly down new features even more.

    They should spend ZERO development time on PVE servers and spend it on adding new things to the current game.

    Oh wow, ram away all you like. I'll laugh all the way to the turn in with my chests.

    Are you people totally oblivious to how PvE multiplayer games work?

    Development time on a PvE server? You open an option to join a server that has PvP damage turned off, very simple. You're totally overthinking and over complicating things to a point where you almost seem like a stubborn child.

    It's not that simple. Even if you disabled PVP damage, other pirates could still steal your loot. And what would be the point of cannons and ship repair and bailing water and bananas if you couldn't be damaged in PVP? What would the point of sail length and wind direction and anchor turning if there is no PVP?

    You really want this game to only be about killing skeletons and selling pigs? 75% of this game is pointless without PVP. I don't want Rare to spend 1 second on accommodate PVP whiners when it's needed in so many other places.

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