A treasure system I'd like to see.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    Hiya all!
    I have to say I enjoyed the game quite a lot so far. The one thing that seems to have incredibly wasted its potential however, is the current treasure system.

    • We all crave that feeling...
      The fact that you always get gold is quite a boring one. And maybe it wouldn't be if there was more use for the gold. But let's be honest. Who doesn't love to open the chests.
      Rare said there will be no loot boxes from micro transactions. Give us the loot boxes here then.

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    • Why wouldn't they?
      I think we can all agree that this would be awesome. We all wanted to open the chest at least once during the play tests, right? So why isn't it that way?
      Well, I thought about this for a while now. Rare certainly knows how much players love their chests, so the way I see it...
      It will most likely be added and it's not in game yet because of two reasons.
    1. Beta had way too little cosmetic items compared to how often you're able to get a chest.
    2. As Rare said already, they're keeping features up their sleeves for full release. This is one of them.

    But however unlikely, I see one more possible reason.
    There is a slight chance that Rare takes loot boxes, including the way they're done in Borderlands, like a mean thing to the players. There was a lot of controversy about loot boxes lately. Valve, Blizzard and EA went full Stingy (dat Lazy Town pun) on them and paid the cost. Now half the world sees it as a full fledged gambling and looks down at it. So maybe, hope not, Rare is thinking that this would cast a shadow over SoT and hence puts their hands away.

    Either way, we can discuss and imagine what could the system look like if it gets implemented.

    • Two birds, one stone

    So what system would I like to see?
    Well, I think the best idea would be that after digging up the treasure, you still have to bring it back to the outpost. That way you won't take away the necessity of guarding your treasure on the way back.
    After successfully reaching the outpost you could decide. Either get a guaranteed amount of gold with gold hoarders, or go to the Master locksmith.
    If you decide to unlock your chest, you'll have to pay. Depending on what chest you brought with you, the items in each, and the gold spent on it would be different.
    This would finally give a real use for gold in SoT and also it would be a great new feature.

    • OMG FINALLY YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES... It's beautiful!

    So what would be inside you ask?
    3 possible types of items, one of which would be guaranteed and would never change.

    The one would be a cosmetic item.
    In the cheaper treasures there would be all sorts of cosmetics you can normally buy for few gold coins, in the more rare chests there would be chest-specific cosmetics along with some better normal ones.

    The other two things you could get would be additional.
    The first one being gold. A random amount with base bottom and top limit set for each type of chest. In the most common chests it could be as little as 20 gold but as much as 100 for example. In the rarest of chests it could start at 500 and go up to 2000. All depending on drop rates and such.

    The other thing would be a voyage. A map or a riddle, or a contract. And again, decent but common voyages for the low price chests, but very special in case of the mythical ones for example.

    Chances of getting an additional drop could be at about 20%.
    The chances to get a top tier item would be very poor.
    1% or even less so the best items from the best chests feel like unusual hats, knifes, PUBG skirts and idk what not. And when you see a guy with one, you're jealous.

    The whole idea is that you'd have to make a decision. Either you get your gold,
    (in case you need it at that moment for other stuff) or you take the risk.
    In the end, you will spend about the price of the chest just to open it, in 60% of cases you get nothing good, in 30% of cases you get a decent thing that still isn't worth all of the risk and gold spent on it, in 9% of cases you will get a decent item + a decent additional drop so you're pretty much at least not losing any value. And at the last 1% or less you get something incredible. Something with a nice glow to it, shiny, sparkly, unique.
    Most of the times you will spend your effort and gold just to get the chance to get this item. And when you get the chance, you're gonna blow it.
    But after some time in game. Few hundreds of hours on average, you get a shiny gem that will be worth all the time spent on it.

    This is what would make the game perfect for me. This is what would ultimately keep me going. Having fun with friends and fights and in between that, hoping that I'll be lucky this time. What do you think?

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  • Jack LittleShoe

    @retto-elbaroda no, no, nononono, nothing lootbox related!!! it's just gambling with a different name, no just no.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @jack-littleshoe Are you sure you read all of the post? It has nothing to do with real money :)

  • Jack LittleShoe

    @retto-elbaroda i know but it's still gambling with ingame gold, and while you may be able to stop yourself from doing it, me and millions of others like me won't be able to.

  • Matsumae Yameru
    Founder

    Lootboxes provide nothing that isn't solved better by a persistent shop where we the player get to choose what cosmetic we want and then spend our gold on it.

    Let's keep games gambling free, it's a lazy tactic that devs have been using to create a false sense of progression and a cheap way to get our brains to release dopamine.

    Why would a treasure chest have a map to another treasure chest?
    Why am I spending gold to open a chest to be rewarded with more gold?
    Why would I want random cosmetics (i assume duplicates of most of the common items) when the game already allows me to simply purchase what I want from the vendors?

  • Lukian3924
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    I like the idea of an Overwatch type of loot system. You can buy the cosmetics or get super lucky to find that skin you want in a chest. I don't know how well it would work with Sea of Thieves but I do think the idea is pretty neat.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @matsumae-vgq & @Jack-LittleShoe
    I do understand that it's a gambling like any other, however it's risk free. Real risk that is.
    Now, about why would you want it...
    Well, this is my opinion, but if you ever played Borderlands 2 for example, you know what I'm talking about.
    1 reason is the excitement you get from it when you get the item, but that's just minor. Another is that it gives you a chance to get something truly special. If anyone can buy anything, even if your item is worth 100 000 gold, it won't feel special.
    "Trove" is a great case to show that. I spent hundreds of hours playing the game and made lots of money to buy a special very expensive mount. It never felt special to me however, as anyone could get it at some point.
    Duplicates can be easily solved by selling them at the vendors for a little bit of gold again.
    And about the map being possible as an additional drop, I don't see why not? In many games, movies etc. there is one hint of a riddle leading to another. So why wouldn't a pirate bury a map to his treasure into another treasure that is locked. Just to make it a bit harder for those who aren't supposed to find it.

    But most importantly, this would still be just another thing you could decide to do. You wouldn't have to and as said before, no real risk is involved. I still appreciate your opinion even if different tho! :)

  • Jack LittleShoe

    @retto-elbaroda I don't think you quite get how gambling addiction works man, i know i wouldn't HAVE to, the problem is i would WANT to. and thats risky by itself
    cause sure it would start out all innocent like (Oh its just a game there no harm in spending ingame gold on this kind of thing) Then it would be (Oh it's just a game i might aswell spend some of my real money on this lootbox) and then, (F**k it, it's my money i can do what i want with!! "drives to a casino") It's a VERY slippery slope man so please as innocent as your request might seem, know that for some people it could ruin their lives.

  • xCALYPT0x
    Master
    Insider
    Boatswain

    If you mean the chest we dig up should act like loot-boxes then there is one problem. Opening our chests right away means we have nothing to steal from anyone else, rendering PVP useless.

    Early today I responded on some thread suggesting maybe you can cash in the chest for gold OR open it for a chance to obtain some gear that can't be bought at shops. I hadn't thought of the issue of nullifying PVP. Perhaps you should be able to buy a voyage AND a key and then you can either unlock the chest yourself for random loot or take it back to the gold hoarder for a set gold amount. Then if you are attacked, your keys are dropped as well, thus keep PVP relevant at more times. The only time it wouldn't be is after you have opened the chest assuming you have no more keys and no chests on board.

  • K7 Issues

    I like this idea quite a bit. It's not the same as gambling with real money loot boxes. Yes the premise is the same, but it's essentially a no risk situation. I think it adds a good bit of extra mechanics to the generic treasure chests.

    Anyone that's thinking this is essentially gambling.... You're right, but you're also over reacting if you think it should be avoided at all costs... The game will NOT have real money loot box purchases in it, Rare has EXPLICITLY said this... Therefore, stop belly aching about people wanting to do whatever they want with IN GAME currency. They only thing they loose is the time that they're ALREADY putting into the game to get the chests in the first place.

    Good idea @Retto-Elbaroda! Nice details too, it's clear you put some thought into this, good thought too. Don't be discouraged about people who don't want to take the time to understand your idea.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @jack-littleshoe I can only speak for myself here as I have no wider experience, that's true.
    But the fact stays that in this very game there would be no real risk involved. If what you're saying that simply letting people have a try at it, even tho there is no risk, will in the end likely make them try it IRL, that could be the case in some amount of cases, sure. But at the same time, that would make the whole of Borderlands series a lair of evil as all of it is based literally of "random" chances and your luck. And trust me, I spent lots of time in borderlands playing with the slot machines, and opening boxes. I did also do some openings of loot boxes in Overwatch and Dota 2, yet never would I even come close to being addicted. I tried it IRL too and it just doesn't interest me.
    I respect your opinion and I get where you're coming from, yet I do think it's taken a little bit too far as that would mean taking down many games that have something similar in them. Not even talking about real money gambling but some of the biggest games like GTA, FIFA, Heartstone, WoW, League, DoTA, CSGO, TF2, Borderlands... they all have gambling in them. And the list obviously goes on. Never thought it would be that much of a deal, but then again... I never thought that calling a girl sexy would ever be considered an offensive behaviour and here we are in the fully PC year of 2018.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @k7-issues Thank you! I'm glad you share my opinion and appreciate the effort :)
    In the end however, all of us are what makes this community. Everyone's opinions are equally important and so I try to understand every single point and feedback given to me. I do completely agree with all you said, but we could still be wrong. In the end it all comes to Rare and their own idea of the game. We can only hope that they will read our posts and have a think about it.

  • Hambeard

    @retto-elbaroda said in A treasure system I'd like to see.:

    Not even talking about real money gambling but some of the biggest games like GTA, FIFA, Heartstone, WoW, League, DoTA, CSGO, TF2, Borderlands... they all have gambling in them.

    Except in WoW there is no gambling in fact casinos are not allowed in WoW, they're viewed as a disruption and potential scam for players. There is no way around it -- running a gambling or /roll game in chat will have you dealing with some serious retribution, especially doing it in the open.

  • Jack LittleShoe

    @retto-elbaroda the difference between SoT and GTA, FIFA, Heartstone, WoW, League, DoTA, CSGO, TF2, Borderlands. is that i can still hopefully affect SoT development. but i won't keep arguing with you about this "Risk Free" loot box as obviously our opinions are very different plus i have mostly said what i wanted to say anyway i just hope that if and Devs read this they will think about how even Ingame gold lootboxes could affect some people.

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    No. Please, for the love of grog, NO!

    Give me gold for what we dig up, let me save up for the things I want to buy with it. There will be LOTS of more uses for the gold when the game comes out.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @erikinthebakery Seems like people don't really like the idea, sad for me, good for developers to know :)

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    @retto-elbaroda You have many other places to chase "that feeling" you crave. It just isn't a good fit here :)

  • K7 Issues

    @retto-elbaroda You have a point about, we all could be wrong, but the loot box, gambling situation thing doesn't have a right answer. It has a moral one, but otherwise it's up to personal opinion until someone puts forth a law that states otherwise, like in Hawaii. Rare has final say, of course. I just feel like an idea like this shouldn't be discarded because of moral media crapstorm that Battlefront 2 caused. It's all opinion of course, but I feel, no real money, no problem.

  • ScalawagSam
    Seafarer

    If i were op i would change all instances where you used “money” to “gold” to avoid confusion and make it clear there is no transactions being made,, it is all done with in game currency.
    But yes i agree and honestly when i first heard of this game thats exactly what i thought the chests were for and if its not incorperated in a similar way it will be a huge waste of oppertunity

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @scalawagsam Thank you for your feedback! I changed it now. So far it seems like it's 50/50. Some people like the idea, some don't. But I think it would actually fit the game well :)

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    I'm already playing "spin the wheel" on the character creator; I'd rather not do it with my loot too. If I see someone's cool hat, I'd rather know exactly what I have to do to get it and work towards that.

    Waiting for a random number generator to give it to me would just be frustrating.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @v**a-hombre I find it pretty interesting that I actually like the character selection system. Looks like people tend to dislike anything random or procedural, while I just find it cool :)

  • Sytoki
    Marauder
    Insider

    Not the worst loot box system I've heard but someone else already mentioned here it would get rid of the feeling of progression to the game. Since the only evident progression so far is reputation, cosmetics, and the infamous pirate legend status, it's safe to say that having loot boxes that give you random cosmetics would have a negative impact on how players view endgame. What's the point in grinding out gold to get that sweet expensive outfit you wanted to show off when some new guy can get lucky and get it as well? You'll know you spent the time to get that cosmetic but nobody else would and that's the point of p*****g you character out(at least to me).

  • JaxoGraverot
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    Maybe i'm alone in this, but gambling does not make me feel special. Working towards a difficult goal does. Id rather fight tooth and nail to get what i want than to have it handed to me by a magic box of flashing lights and colors.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @xcalypt0x As the post above says, opening the chest would be done at a specialized vendor in the outposts. So you'd still have to bring it over there to open it.

    @Scheefinator I do understand that and I never spoke of anything other than opening in game chests. Loot boxes in this post were only used as a reference.

  • Thewolfman321
    Captain
    Founder

    @retto-elbaroda no dude..... just no........

  • Shragh
    Master
    Insider
  • ZenZuki
    Master
    Insider

    I kinda like where you're going but...

    As anything lootbox related is pretty much a pariah these days...

    Maybe they could institute something along the lines of a mythical macguffin that's been broken into "X" number of shards and scattered to the winds.

    The odds of finding a piece of the macguffin are really rare, and finding enough to "re-create" an item would be a time consuming affair. The pieces could be found pretty much anywhere in the world though (i.e. seabed, shipwrecks, random dig spot on islands, a rare drop from a boss or Kraken, etc.)

    This would give people a reason to explore every inch of the Sea of Thieves world in the hopes of amassing the requisite number of Shards.

    If/once you gain enough shards, you would take them to the Mystic Vendor, where she would cast a spell which would combine the shards back into a single vessel/item.

    This is in effect the "lootbox"-y type item. When casting the "spell" and making the item whole again, a random generator is enacted and the resulting macguffin you recieve is a rare cosmetic item to add to your inventory.

    Different "color/elaborate" pieces could be indicative of the different possible levels of reward.

    No Money or Gold is expended in the process, it is merely luck (and/or persistance) in finding all the pieces of a particular macguffin to bring to the Mystic.

    It would give the players who want a "long tail" goal to go after and get some really unique cosmetics that maybe not many others would have, a way to do so without there needing to be any "gambling" systems put into the game.

    And people who are uninterested in such things, could just ignore the whole process if they wished, and if they got lucky and found any pieces, could just sell them to the Mystic for gold.
    (Although I would imagine even those that didn't go out of their way to find them, certainly would hold onto them in the hopes that one day they'd luck into finding enough to "cash" them in for a sweet unique cosmetic).

    Seems like a win/win. What do you think @Retto-Elbaroda , would something like this meet your needs of your op?

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @elite-assasin87 Thank you for sharing your opinion. Very little people seem to give constructive criticism so I appreciate what you said. And you even have a point. There certainly would be new players with top tier items. But if you think about tf2 for example, the numbers of such players are tiny and more experienced players tend to almost always have incredible items. I still think it would be a good tradeoff but point taken :)

  • Aenima123
    Founder

    @erikinthebakery said in A treasure system I'd like to see.:

    @retto-elbaroda You have many other places to chase "that feeling" you crave. It just isn't a good fit here :)

    Haha, there is almost no other game on the history of video gaming where opening a chest would fit so well. You've got to be kidding.

    I'm supporting the idea that we should be able to open chests one way or another, i love the dopamine rush.

    @retto-elbaroda You shouldn't have phrased you original post like this and shouldn't have used the word "loot box".

    There is already something like this in the game, the moment you dig a chest : you don't know which type is gonna be. Maybe it's gonna be a castaway, a seafarer, maybe a captain ! It's rare but who knows ?
    Opening a chest would be roughly the same.

  • KigreTheViking
    Founder

    @retto-elbaroda

    I Like the idea but they're gonna have to add alot of items.
    Like, ALOT.

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @retto-elbaroda

    Don't take it as a moral stance or anything. It's mostly that I just have c****y luck and never seem to get what I'm after.

    I won a contest once for a bike. It was too small for me.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @zenzuki That's certainly a good one. I would love such a system as exploration is my favorite part of the SoT experience. I mean, the only problem people seem to have is that the input for the chest opening is gold. That's what seems to separate gambling from a simple random luck situation. But yes. In the end, if I'll be able to get and see something truly special, no matter how acquired, I'll be more than happy. Good thinking. Appreciate the effort.

  • Kustho
    Ship Mate

    I do not agree with your idea of lootboxes in SoT.

    How chests are handled in game is fun at the moment, I was not once thinking of Battlefront 2 or even the 2017 discussion about lootboxes and thats good.

    You have a tad ton of players, mostly here on the forums, clearly showing that they did not understand the coremechanic of PvP and getting chests home safely. I mean, look at the threads...you have people asking for different servers for different playstyles. You have people asking for less risk...less less risk, no risk...pve...more pve.

    Your aware that the core mechanic is to get the chest home and sell it.? The risk starts AFTER you find the chest since death has no penalties...having your eyes at the horizon and look for sails.

    All those people would take the safe road cause its the safe thing to do, no risk...no other player can spoil anything.

    Thats why your idea feels like: Be carefull what you wish for, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    And if I misunderstood you, I am really sorry...english is not my prime.

  • Retto Elbaroda
    Master
    Founder

    @v**a-hombre That's actually pretty funny. I might be biased too though, just the other way. I never lost money on loot boxes in any steam game and never spent so much I'd feel bad about it. It's still a good post this. It shows the different ideas and feelings of the community. If nothing else, Rare will have a better insight after reading through the comments :)

    @Aenima123 I know exactly what you mean. It just feels like we should be able to unlock them chests ourselves! And yea... My choice of words was rather poor. Especially since it's a long post and not everyone will read all of it.

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