Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.

  • RustyPyrate
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    We all know the deal with the sinking of your ship. It sinks, go to mermaid, you get your ship back. But, this doesn't seem like punishment enough. But then, what WOULD be a punishment for you if you sink your ship? Well, I know a few good ideas...

    1. You MUST pay to get it back.
      We all know ship customization is a thing, and most likely the ship will belong to one person. So, what happens if your personal ship sinks? Well, I believe the owner of the ship would have to pay to get it back. Or have another crew member spawn his/her ship instead.

    2. Return to Ship Vol.2
      This is a new idea that most don't get. Basically, if you get sunk, you get a new stock ship until your personal ship is back. You get half of the resources you got and the ship probably will take a few more leaks. Basically, a very weak ship. Sure, not good for chasing down pirates who took your treasure, but possible.

    3. Get your ship back, but horrid condition.
      This is a combination of the first two suggestions. You DO get your ship back, but your hull's paint is chipped, your sails torn, the decorations damaged, windows cracked, and not as many resources. It won't take long for them to sink again if hit and will be slightly slower. But that could be fixed by fully repairing your ship at an outpost.

    4. Rewarding you if you sink another ship.
      this is not a new idea or the... "Greatest" idea. If you sink another ship, you get two things. One, the barrels of resources float to the top. you get all the wood and planks they had, and would be great instead of having to restock over at an island. Second, is the ship's name plaque. I was hoping that there was a PvP guild where you sink ships and bring their plaques back for money. But most likely won't happen.

    What do you guys think about these?

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  • hrknen

    I like the fact the ships are easy to get back.
    An option to have your crew and new ship transferred to another instance would be nice, so you could continue on your voyage/quest without running into the same ship over and over if they decide to camp your island.

    A stock/loaner ship could be interesting if they ever implement ship theft, could have a timer or something until the old ship sinks and your crew is stuck with a loaner for a 10minutes or so.

  • KgmsHylian
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @cheatingpirate said in Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.:

    We all know the deal with the sinking of your ship. It sinks, go to mermaid, you get your ship back. But, this doesn't seem like punishment enough. But then, what WOULD be a punishment for you if you sink your ship? Well, I know a few good ideas...

    1. You MUST pay to get it back.
      We all know ship customization is a thing, and most likely the ship will belong to one person. So, what happens if your personal ship sinks? Well, I believe the owner of the ship would have to pay to get it back. Or have another crew member spawn his/her ship instead.

    2. Return to Ship Vol.2
      This is a new idea that most don't get. Basically, if you get sunk, you get a new stock ship until your personal ship is back. You get half of the resources you got and the ship probably will take a few more leaks. Basically, a very weak ship. Sure, not good for chasing down pirates who took your treasure, but possible.

    3. Get your ship back, but horrid condition.
      This is a combination of the first two suggestions. You DO get your ship back, but your hull's paint is chipped, your sails torn, the decorations damaged, windows cracked, and not as many resources. It won't take long for them to sink again if hit and will be slightly slower. But that could be fixed by fully repairing your ship at an outpost.

    4. Rewarding you if you sink another ship.
      this is not a new idea or the... "Greatest" idea. If you sink another ship, you get two things. One, the barrels of resources float to the top. you get all the wood and planks they had, and would be great instead of having to restock over at an island. Second, is the ship's name plaque. I was hoping that there was a PvP guild where you sink ships and bring their plaques back for money. But most likely won't happen.

    What do you guys think about these?

    Punish that your ship has sunk? You mean besides losing the treasure you had on it, the resources you stacked up, the progress where you sailed at the time..?

    Rewards, I agree could have part of the resources (since some of them supposed to get destroyed in the ship sinking and fight, right?) floating to the top as a barrel pack. But they are supposed to get your treasure too, which you had onboard.

  • LordSilentbunny
    Marauder

    Option 4 seems the best for me, you had your ship sunk and the enemy gets the loot. Actively punishing the losing crew even further seems rather mean.

    The plaque idea seems good, in addition to that perhaps a kill tally mark on the hull/sail to show how many ships they have sunk and plaques taken?

  • Olric Forstner

    @CheatingPirate
    You were hoping for a PVP guild??

    @cheatingpirate said in Puritan Corsairs - Christian fleet:

    Within the Sea of Thieves, I have noticed that people here are... less faithful and kinda crude with some things they do. They hunt others trying to do PvE, they verbally offend women who play the game, and overall not a place for the feint of heart. So, I am going to be starting a more family friendly and more Christian crew in this sea, the Puritan Corsairs.
    Rules:

    1. Be respectful of others.
    2. No verbal abuse
    3. No Swearing
    4. Don't attack unless they attack you

    I don' think I can trust ye if spotted on th' open seas!

    Sorry, just thought it was ironic :)

    But I don't think we should punish sunken ships more by making them weakened or have to pay to get their ship back. I mean, if they just spent the last hour or so obtaining treasure, they've done lost that as is. They lost their loot and time put into obtaining it.

    I think a plaque would be nifty where maybe you could add it to a book kept on the cabin's desk and you could look through it seeing all the ships you've sank? That would be pretty cool.

  • TreblucFayle
    Master

    I don't think their should be rewards for sinking other ships. You can already take treasure/ resources before it goes down, that's enough.

    If there are direct rewards for sinking ships, people will fire on ships indiscriminately. And this is part of the problem in the whole PvP vs PvE discussion that's going on in other threads.

    Also, I'd see a rise of people scuttling their own ships to prevent people from getting this kind of reward.

  • Entinome
    Lord
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @CheatingPirate
    I like it when people use bullet-points, makes it nice and clear. In regards to your ideas, I agree that the punishment is currently not high enough. But, it also can't be too steep as changing it too much would diminish the fun of the game. And while the game-philosophy is that your treasure is not safe until you turn it in. Another part of that is that the progress you have made saves up, and is something other players can't interfere with. This is why adding a gold penalty to being sunk is, in my eyes, a bad idea because besides losing your resources/treasure on board you're also losing previous made progress. Which goes against that philosophy.

    So, instead, I am reminded of a past mention that players would have to complete certain tasks in order to get off the Ferry. And while that is fairly vague description and up to interpretation, I like the premise of that more than paying gold. Why? Well, let me explain.

    So, say that a mechanic is added where you have to complete a task for the Ferryman. But, the task changes depending on how you died. A player killing you during a pvp encounter, or AI, and perhaps even depending location/situation. This way, after being sunk you spend a little longer on the ferry (perhaps encountering other players that you can team up with) while you're completingyour individual tasks for the dude at the wheel. In my eyes that sounds a lot more alluring, doing a task and perhaps running into some poor soul who has to do the same but a minute later or who has been there for longer. That would be hilarious, no? ... maybe that's just me..

    Anyway, I don't want to get bogged down in my own little world. Let me adress some more of your ideas, because I really liked parts of what you suggested.
    "Return to Ship Vol.2" what you're suggesting is kind of how I envision the shipwright to end up. She is responsible for ship customization, but also reclaiming your ship. She's the person you'd have to return to in order to reclaim your ship and until then you get something like "Get your ship back, but horrid condition" a bad ship that you can use to sail to an outpost. But it's a ship that's not completely.. right. A ship where you constantly have to bail water because you're out of planks or it misfires cannonshots every so often wounding the player. Something like that would be hilarious, makes me think of PotC 1 where Jack arrives at the pier.

    I don't think people should be additionally rewarded for sinking another ship. And while having some resources float up, perhaps 1/4th of what they had, wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't think you should gain anything other than what they might have had.

    Cheers!

  • Tedakin
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @cheatingpirate I like the idea of getting a trophy of some kind for sinking a ship and building up a trophy case.

  • RustyPyrate
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @olric-forstner Well I didn't say we won't sink ships. Only if they attack us first. And I know many love some good old PvP so I brought that up xD

    And those are good points too!

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    @cheatingpirate Why do you feel like people need to be "punished". Seriously, this is a game. It is ok to play and have fun.

  • DramaticAlarm62

    I don't think any of your ideas should be implemented. The system, as is, seems sufficient. Adding significantly would over-complicate things.

    The reward for sinking enemy ships - apart from grabbing their chests and resources before - is that they won't shoot at you. It is a threat eliminated.

    The punishment for having your ship sunk is that you lose your chests and probably ship customisation in the final game.

  • l JAYRUN l
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    In the beta my team and i parked our boat at an outpost we went to sail off and didnt go any where. With a bit of W*F and investigating we found that the bottom of the rudder was the smallest bit glitched into a sand bar. We had to scuttle the ship to play again. Now if i had to buy my ship back because of this this glitch it wouldn't really b fair at all

  • Dragotech123
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    I like the system as it is now.
    These ideas only encourages to sink more ships and there will be less friendly meetings between different crews. You already lose treasure, resources and get spawned on a different place you didn't plan to go after your ship is sunk. The punishment is enough. The winners already have rewards, the stolen treasure, the stolen resources and the satisfaction of sinking a ship and killing its crew.

    Instead I believe we need something that can be rewarding for making friends in the sea.

  • l JAYRUN l
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @dragotech123 said in Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.:

    I like the system as it is now.
    These ideas only encourages to sink more ships and there will be less friendly meetings between different crews. You already lose treasure, resources and get spawned on a different place you didn't plan to go after your ship is sunk. The punishment is enough. The winners already have rewards, the stolen treasure, the stolen resources and the satisfaction of sinking a ship and killing its crew.

    Instead I believe we need something that can be rewarding for making friends in the sea.

    I totally agree the game is perfect the way it is

  • SPR1NK
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    I actually do think that some form of higher risk in your ship sinking needs to be implemented, just because for people who aren't doing voyages to find treasure and are just sinking other people they really aren't going into it with any risk if they have no treasure

    The attackers get sunk, oh no big deal, we get another ship free, and just go attack again

    Needs to be something added to make deciding to attack even when you don't have treasure more risky

  • Porkns
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Ok a few things regarding this idea;

    1. How do you determine who the 'owner' of the ship is? And therefore who pays to get the ship back in a multi-person crew?

    2. Your re-spawned vessel already starts with less resources and you lose all loot on your previous ship so this point pretty much already happens.

    3. Not a bad idea but one I think the newer/younger players wouldn't find particularly fun. Especially if they end up in a lobby with other pirates hell bent on pvp interaction. Just doesn't make the game particularly fun for newbros if they get caught in a permanent loop where they're at a disadvantage.

    4. This is an excellent idea and the one I support the most. Being able to loot resources etc from a sunken ship would be a great addition. Not so convinced by the idea of selling plaques. Rare need to be careful not to support pvp action too much as it's not what the game is solely about. I feel it would encourage too many crews to simply grief other players and sink their ships rather than actually set out to complete quests.

  • Barnacle Remson
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    @CheatingPirate I think 3 is good. I was several times in combats where the losing ship always comes back to you because it remembered where you were. It spawned just a view islands away in sight and now it attacks again and again and again. That's not fun at all, because it does not feel like a win although you sink that ship every time, but your resources are limited too.

    So if you get sunk you have to repair at the outpost would help to avoid that kind of behavior.

  • ZenZuki
    Master
    Insider

    I believe the system in place now is fine, but I DO like one things you mentioned...

    It's always been a mystery to me how (if we can all customize our ships) would we be able to sail on different crewmembers ships to be able to check out what cool things they've done and whatnot.

    What would be cool is if on initial log-in, it either randomly chooses a "Captain" as it does now (or whomever makes the party would be Captain "first"), then we sail around doing our piratey things and if/when we're sunk for whatever reason, the next ship we receive from the mermaids is another crewmembers!

    As the ships are "recovered" it would just cycle through each of the current members ships (excluding the member whose ship was just lost)!

    This way we'd eventually get to pirate everyones ships, getting to see (and/or help make) improvements as well as show off our ships to "randoms" and vice-versa so ideas can ultimately be shared and seen by all!

    Doing it this way will also help the less "creative" pirates who may have never decided to "decorate" a ship due to lack of ideas or desire or whatever. When that crew members ship comes up and everyone saw it was a little "light" on decorations, other crew members could help suggest ideas or even suggest missions, etc that would be fun to take on that could reward neat things they could put on their ship!

    Bonding moments! :)

  • OldManSutii
    Captain
    Founder

    Going by the Beta (maybe the live game will be different) there doesn't really need to be any further incentive, reward, or punishment in any form for PvP.

    If anything, additional incentive for PvE is needed to get more people doing it, so that after a PvP encounter it's more likely that the sunken ship has items of value on board.

  • Drachmul
    Master
    Founder

    number 3 combined with number 4 of your ideas are great and sound awesome together!! but 1 and 2 are kinda bad. We must take into consideration scuttling. Which is the advice we told the new players who were harassed in pvp and chased to the edge of the map for several hours ....we shouldn't punish them even more. Think about it.

  • cwarrick66
    Insider

    i think adding more punishment for losing your ship isn't the way to go, but rewarding those who sink ships might be a better idea, maybe a 4th faction that is all PvP centric, like pirate hunters or something that give you voyages to track down players on the server and bring back proof of their demise. although that might only work if they increase the player count on the servers.

  • Baron Vograx
    Seafarer

    @cheatingpirate said in Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.:

    What do you guys think about these?

    I disagree.

    The ship being easy to replace is a key reason why the game feels lighthearted and fun to play.

    An easily replaceable ship also lowers the threshold for getting players who are otherwise reluctant to engage with PvP to actually jump in and have fun too since they don't really lose anything.

    Once the ship itself becomes an investment you can lose you will see a lot of players who rather run away and even log out rather than risk losing their ship.

    So in my opinion the free ships is a great design decision.

    What you lose is any treasure you brought onboard (chests, skulls, cargo, whoknowswhatelse!).

  • Baron Vograx
    Seafarer

    @cwarrick66 said in Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.:

    i think adding more punishment for losing your ship isn't the way to go, but rewarding those who sink ships might be a better idea, maybe a 4th faction that is all PvP centric, like pirate hunters or something that give you voyages to track down players on the server and bring back proof of their demise. although that might only work if they increase the player count on the servers.

    As a reward for sinking the enemy ship I think their resources should float up in barrels like the ones we find near the seagulls.

    Cannonballs, bananas and planks would float up in barrels together with any chests they had onboard.

    That way the winner could turn back to gather treasure and restock (at least some) of the resources they spent during battle.

    I think that would be a sufficient reward for the winning team :)

  • OhIMissed1
    Rogue

    @cheatingpirate

    My biggest gripe with the beta was the fact there was no penalty for losing your ship. Many times, i would grab a chest and just bail out at the outpost in fear of someone getting it. Getting into a fight with another ship. I would just drop into the water, let them chase/sink my boat and then kill them. If they took gold from me each time I sank my own boat or it was sank then it will (maybe) stop people for doing this. I'm not saying take a lot of gold like 1000, but maybe 100 to 300 each time you lose your boat.

    If we only use gold for costumes and there are lots of quests and ways to get gold. the price is low enough it doesn't hurt the game, but high enough that if you constantly keep doing things like that, it might make you start caring about your boat

  • Capn Tonis
    Captain
    Insider

    Currently my biggest issue is with how close a ship spawns. In the beta, my girlfriend and I sunk another sloop that came after us 3 times and each time they just spawned at the closest island to us and darted right for us. By the end we were out of resources and they just had a fresh ship every time, and eventually got our chest. We quit for the night because doing the same thing to them, continually harassing them by spawning close just didn't seem fun.

    If they fixed this up I would be more than happy, there doesn't seem to be enough punishment for people who continuously sink to the same people. Maybe a system like GTA where they spawn further and further away.

  • Aenima123
    Founder

    @kgmshylian said in Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.:

    @cheatingpirate said in Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.:

    We all know the deal with the sinking of your ship. It sinks, go to mermaid, you get your ship back. But, this doesn't seem like punishment enough. But then, what WOULD be a punishment for you if you sink your ship? Well, I know a few good ideas...

    1. You MUST pay to get it back.
      We all know ship customization is a thing, and most likely the ship will belong to one person. So, what happens if your personal ship sinks? Well, I believe the owner of the ship would have to pay to get it back. Or have another crew member spawn his/her ship instead.

    2. Return to Ship Vol.2
      This is a new idea that most don't get. Basically, if you get sunk, you get a new stock ship until your personal ship is back. You get half of the resources you got and the ship probably will take a few more leaks. Basically, a very weak ship. Sure, not good for chasing down pirates who took your treasure, but possible.

    3. Get your ship back, but horrid condition.
      This is a combination of the first two suggestions. You DO get your ship back, but your hull's paint is chipped, your sails torn, the decorations damaged, windows cracked, and not as many resources. It won't take long for them to sink again if hit and will be slightly slower. But that could be fixed by fully repairing your ship at an outpost.

    4. Rewarding you if you sink another ship.
      this is not a new idea or the... "Greatest" idea. If you sink another ship, you get two things. One, the barrels of resources float to the top. you get all the wood and planks they had, and would be great instead of having to restock over at an island. Second, is the ship's name plaque. I was hoping that there was a PvP guild where you sink ships and bring their plaques back for money. But most likely won't happen.

    What do you guys think about these?

    Punish that your ship has sunk? You mean besides losing the treasure you had on it, the resources you stacked up, the progress where you sailed at the time..?

    Rewards, I agree could have part of the resources (since some of them supposed to get destroyed in the ship sinking and fight, right?) floating to the top as a barrel pack. But they are supposed to get your treasure too, which you had onboard.

    I agree with you, punishment seems fair to me, and for the reward, ressources floating as barrels would be a good and simple addition to the game.

    The only thing to me that really needs an improvement is the location where a sunken ship respawn. Most of the time, it's too close from where you sunk, and with the greater view distance, you can quickly respawn at your boat and keep come back to harass the winner (and you have nothing to lose anymore so you can do that again and again).

    Maybe, each time you sink, your boat respawn a bit further from where you just sunk ? So you'd need more and more time to come back ?

  • Aenima123
    Founder

    @capn-tonis said in Your ship has sunk. How to punish that? And how to reward those who sink their ships.:

    Currently my biggest issue is with how close a ship spawns. In the beta, my girlfriend and I sunk another sloop that came after us 3 times and each time they just spawned at the closest island to us and darted right for us. By the end we were out of resources and they just had a fresh ship every time, and eventually got our chest. We quit for the night because doing the same thing to them, continually harassing them by spawning close just didn't seem fun.

    If they fixed this up I would be more than happy, there doesn't seem to be enough punishment for people who continuously sink to the same people. Maybe a system like GTA where they spawn further and further away.

    Oh, i didn't see your post, but yeah, exactly that.

  • DUDEMANGUY1
    Seafarer

    I don't know if I like the idea of paying to get it back because you already lose all the progression you had built up when you lose loot/location. However it might be fun to get stuck with a dingy for a bit where you have to reclaim your ship at an outpost! Rolling up like:

    alt text

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