Replayability concerns? (and a solution!)

@dyzalonius said in Replayability concerns?:

First and foremost, thanks Rare, great game already. I really like the concept of SoT, I like how they designed crew-play and crew vs crew interactions. Plus, the artstyle is stunning. The core mechanics are really nice: the way combat works, the way you earn money.

Forgive me as I try to put down my thoughts concerning this subject in responds to your post. Also, great post, and this is indeed a passionate topic for discussion right now among the community. Rare really hasn't answered a lot of our questions yet, which also has us No Mans Sky owners a bit weary.

My thoughts
The core mechanics are very well fleshed out already. Hunting for treasures or making money with the other traders is very cool. The progression system that's in place with these traders also sounds good and makes sense. Though, I wonder what is supposed to keep me playing.

• Is it the progression with traders? I guess that at some point, you've reached the limit, the end. You have done everything you could possibly do for the trader, to the point where they want to marry you. Is that the end? That seems quite .. final. Ofcourse you could hypothetically keep making bigger and more difficult voyages, but is that really viable?

Most of us don't think its very viable right now. But again, there is more Rare has to show us, even though we don't know what that is yet. We also know there are sea monsters/world bosses? But we don't know how they work. Traders are a grind-fest right now, they're emotionless money grabs that are supposed to keep us entertained. And to some degree they do, for a few hours at least. After doing around 50 missions for one trader, or even combined with all the traders, you start to get really bored. You really start noticing you're performing the same motions over and over again. And in the end you are rewarded by being able to buy a cool hat or put a title under your name. It feels a bit gimmicky and does not feel rewarding. Needless to say, this is not how a legendary pirate is supposed to feel.

• Is it the competition with other players? If we draw a comparison to a competitive game, CounterStrike, we can see some similarities.
  Both games are really 'fair' for their players, in the way that you have all options from the start, and someone who has played for a year or two still runs exactly the same weapons (or in SoT ships) as you. Both games also don't have a level system where spending time rewards you with stats. The latter two really increase the skill ceiling, and allow players to come up with better ways to play, and outwit their opponent in various ways.
  The difference between the two games in the aspect of competition though, is proper rewarding in competition. CounterStrike has a competitive ladder, but SoT lacks a method of rewarding players for their skill. Simply stealing another crews treasure is not a reward for skill, it's just winning in general (like winning a casual-game in CounterStrike). I don't think SoT should have skill groups, so this is also not the solution.

I am not a huge fan of comparing SoT to FPS games, I think they're in different genres. But I see your point; games like CounterStrike or PUBG you are rewarded for the skill of killing another player. In SoT you might be rewarded with a chest, or you might not, there's really no reward or reasoning behind PVP other than you're bored to death and just want to do it. My hope is that Rare brings in a bounty system, which would make for a much more interesting play style. Meaning if a player or crew is marked with a bounty, you and your crew are rewarded for capturing/killing them. I know Rare has talked about this before, but I've not heard anything recently.

• Is it the variety between different sessions? I have my own Arma 3 gaming community, with which I've played milsim for over 3 years, and over 4k hours. The singleplayer doesn't offer 4k hours worth of gameplay, neither is there a competitive system. It's the gamemode that allows users to build their own scenarios and run groups of 30 players through, with tanks, helicopters, radiocommunication, etc. Because every mission is different, and every mission is a challenge with the sole reward of great gameplay. If SoT would be able to offer the same variety between sessions, the replayability would be endless. However, SoT has a lot more similarities between sessions than Arma does. Like, a lot more. Though, as long as there are enough mechanics that encourage PVP, the scenarios will be varied. Plus, if additional features will be added, like I quoted, people suggested fishing, gambling, and other things, or maybe even a more interesting economy system, where the market is player controlled (see appendix 1). Out of all mentioned points until now, this one is the strongest in my opinion.

Something I've brought up recently is adding in server choices. Fleet Servers & Standard Server. Sort of like what we see in most Multiplayer games that have PVE Servers and PVP Servers. Fleet Servers would allow for groups of players to spawn their own ships, which in a group means you could have 4-6 ships in one fleet. This would make for some interesting gameplay, with the addition of potential fleet battles. I've said this in another post, but I also have a friend that has a clan, and they want to form a Pirate Navy. Their tasks are to patrol the trade routes to make safe for newer crews and clans, while keeping the unsavory pirates at bay. He wants all the ships in the fleet to have a unique paint scheme, and symbols. The idea sounds cool to me, and I think should be an option.

• Is it the wealth that you gather over playing well? With wealth, I don't mean your gold balance, but ofcourse also all of your belongings: Your appearance. ... Full stop, that's it. That seems to be all you can buy with your money to enhance your wealth. Ofcourse, your gold also buys you your cannonballs and other ship resources, but if your appearance is the only thing you can eventually buy with your gold, this might cause players to stop playing at some point. I suppose there won't be very big islands and cities in the future where you could buy real estate for instance (before someone suggests that), so what should we be able to buy with our gold then? Or alternatively, what will keep players wanting to earn more and more gold?

Right now, the game is a pretty calculator game. Meaning you basically just watch as a number climbs until you can buy some slightly different colored shoes. Its light and boring. At least to me. Now Rare has said they're adding in more, but again we don't know what this MORE is yet. I am hoping for things like fishing, cooking, harpoons, swivel guns, custom hulls, custom sails (none of these of course give you an edge, just looks cooler). I also think the PVE side of things could really work. Making swords that glow when treasure is close, or a cursed objects that turns your crew into skeletons until it is sold or removed. There's a ton of potential, just no real answer yet. What is in place will not work for the majority of players though.

Appendix 1: Player controlled market
Players could manage the market. You could then only buy things that other players put up for sale at the outpost you are at. For instance, you can put your bananas for sale at a merchant at a certain outpost for a small fee, other players (maybe also on other servers?) can buy them at that outpost. The buyer could obviously buy the bananas to later on use them, put them for sale again for more money, or transport them to another outpost where the demand is higher!
You could even implement that resources like bananas need to be harvested by players, or that planks need to be salvaged from somewhere. You could then also make certain resources only available in certain areas, making them higher demand in areas where they are not available.

I think a player ran economy is awesome! But that is because I am a hardcore sandbox gamer, and I've noticed not a lot of people here fit that criteria. I personally like the idea, but I am not so sure the community as a whole would embrace it honestly.

@dyzalonius said in Replayability concerns? (and a solution!):

You suggested a bounty system, but as long as dying doesn't have negative effects (such as having to pay a fee to the mermaid for getting your ship back, and having to restock it from 0), the bounty system isn't viable.
If the bounty is put on these players by the game, you'll destabilize the economy, since that would be an endless supply of money: More money would enter the economy than would leave the economy.
If the bounty put on the players by other players, noone will put a bounty on other players, since 5 minutes after killing them, they'd be back doing what they did before you hunted them.

Seeing as there is no economy in the game, it would be pretty hard to destabilize it right now. Of course this could change, but we don't know. What we do know is that a bounty system, or any system, wouldn't impact the economy in it currently reveled state. It would simply be something to combat griefing and reduce the abuse of camping players. I would say after so many times of killing a player the game would automatically put a bounty on your crews heads (that means everyone in your party). Or the player could put one on your head for a higher price.

I'm very sceptical skeptical about this. The 'fronteer' kind of feeling is ruined when you can choose what the seas will look like (single ships vs fleets vs anything). I believe it should stay free form.

Be careful, the community will curse you for suggesting that this game be more open and free to players and crews. I made a post suggesting some changes to the crew management system and have been endlessly ridiculed by the light hearted players among us. But overall, I agree that it should be more free form and allow for more dynamic experiences as a whole. You should be able to see two ships on the horizon and not be sure if they're working together or battling it out. But again, this has been frowned on.

I agree with Rare's vision that the game should stay 'fair' for everyone. Anything that would give you an insane advantage in seabattles should be avoided. I really wonder though, what money should be able to buy you.

Like I said, none of my suggestions should give you an edge over another players. But they could certainly expand on it and have fun doing so, they've just not said anything about it yet. The idea that cosmetics are the only forms of rewards bothers me a lot. You can add in more than just cosmetics and still keep the playing field even. Fishing and cooking stations are a great example of this. Same could be said for trinkets the glow or curse your crew. They don't bring any advantages, but they do bring some varity and add to the experience.

I think that as long as there is enough people willing to fuel the economy (buy/harvest resources, and sell them someone where the demand is higher), and as long as there is an option for players to 'buy/sell item at lowest offered price', noone would be bothered. And I think that is the case. I think that the piratelife is directly linked with a hunger for gold. I think that SoT could have a more interesting economy.

I hope you're right, because this would be an awesome idea and add so much to the game!