@djm-xr07 I would say no. Its true that only cosmetic 'unlocks' are available. However, there is much more to the game than just unlocking new clothing or attire.
Pay to Win in SoT
@void-presence said in Pay to Win in SoT:
@djm-xr07 by definition 'pay to win' means you can buy in-game items that are statistically better. Purely cosmetic items (again, by definition) do not do this, therefore it is not 'pay to win'.
Correct, but I think OP was equating "cosmetic items" with "winning" because cosmetic items seem to be the only goal in the game (since you can't use the earned gold for anything else). Therefore his point of "paying to win" is technically correct if you share the same view of what winning means in this game. Which brings me to my original problem - there has to be more to do with gold than just buying clothes and better hurdy-gurdys.
I don't think you understand the concept of pay to win. Paying to win is getting an advantage over someone by spending money.
An example of this would be at the start of battlefield 1 people who paid more got access to certain weapons. It had the strongest shotgun, pistol, and iron sights sniper. You could out damage a submachine gun at short to medium ranges.
Purely cosmetic isn't something to groan about. "That guy beats me because he paid for those cool cosmetics." Doesn't work.
It would be cool if they made cosmetic items purchaseable
Through microtransactions to support the games growth, but have timed windows where you can buy them, but during that timed window there are things you can do in the game that could also earn you that cosmetic. People with money and not as much time would still buy the ones they really wanted, but they could still be earned. And that decision is really a persons opinion on whats worth it to buy, or if they even ever buy things like cosmetics in the first place, so imo it wouldnt change sales much but just please both parties, likely increasing total sales for the game itself which would make
Up for any loss in sale from players earning them in game.If someone else suggested this or a similar idea my bad i skipped through the thread
@wickd-gamr Re-Read @SpruceTexas689's post.
This is not a thread about gaining a combat advantage through microtransaction in SoT.
This is a thread about the overarching end game in SoT and how microtransactions play into that journey. Winning in SoT is not only about combat victory.
@djm-xr07 winning in sea of thieves is what you make it. If it's about who looks better then you have a poor priority. I won't be able to afford any cosmetics and their isn't a cell in my body that is concerned about it. I'm even for looking awesome and different.
@wickd-gamr You are 100% correct. and for you it seems your not interested in progression in SoT
But we will certainly have to wait to see what captivates the rest of the player base in this game. Many people like progression. In todays market people expect a gluttony of content and an intricate progression system. people enjoy being on top. This is one of the large reasons Titanfall was a failure -in addition to its laughable launch date- and Star Wars battlefront EA.
How long will people enjoy just drinking grog and goofing of with friends, carrying out the same gameplay loop of fetch quests and skellie battles?
there is a need for people to have challenging objectives and be validated when they achieve them. Cosmetic progression is the only real, tangible goal in SoT. you level in the factions to get better cosmetic loot.
and thus begs the original question of this thread, is it fair to everyone else that some may just skip all that effort, and replace skill and time spent, simply through buying the best looking gear in the game?
@wickd-gamr said in Pay to Win in SoT:
@djm-xr07 winning in sea of thieves is what you make it.
I am really struggling with this concept at the moment. If you had a lot more creative ways to spend your hard-earned gold as a symbol of your success and hard work, then it COULD work. For example, if I could purchase bigger/nicer ships, build residences on private islands, become an elected governor of an outpost, or head of a trading company then I could find a way to pursue a victory path that fits with my goals. But currently my options are:
- Buy out all the nice clothes AND/OR
- Make it to the top of the leader boards so that Rare can circulate a newsletter with my picture on it and my K/D ratio.
Feels a bit thin to me.
@submattomic said in Pay to Win in SoT:
@djm-xr07 I would say no. Its true that only cosmetic 'unlocks' are available. However, there is much more to the game than just unlocking new clothing or attire.
Like what? this is the part im scratching my head over.
Like titles?
Pay-to-Win is the basis that microtransactions within the game give a player an unfair advantage over another player. I.E Giving a player a weapon that does 1500 damage over 1400 damage being the highest you can get without paying.
Cosmetics have no tangible impact on player performance and therefore are not considered Pay-to-Win. It's all aesthetics. Generally, cosmetic cash shops are considered the lesser of two evils as they do not force players to buy products to stay competitive with others.
Winning in SoT has nothing to do with the cash shop. The winning would be how well you succeed, your "legend", your enjoyment of exploring the game's world. Your in-game wealth. Cosmetics have no impact on this whatsoever, it's all subjective and up to personal taste. A person can buy a really "cool" outfit from the cash shop the hat/item they've always wanted and be personally content with that outfit. While another can loot their item they always wanted and be content. Regardless, of whether it looks good to everyone else, it is what they wanted. By no means should that dictate whether they are "winning" at the game.
How fashionable someone is in this game or any game except a fashion game shouldn't be a judging point to how successful they are at the game. If you look at something like Dark Souls, people make incredible outfits in that game but some of the most skilled players run around with underpants and an onion head. Skill and talent are what's important and what should dictate if someone is "winning" not fashion.
In my personal opinion though, a game like SoT is not a game you "win" it's a game you play with friends/solo for your personal enjoyment. If you are enjoying your time with the game then you are winning. It's an open-ended game with no goals except personal goals. You cannot beat the game. You just keep playing as long as you feel you can accomplish something in it.
@djm-xr07 You definitely make an interesting point. Much of the game, it seems, is obtaining new ways to customize our individual characters or ships. I will say, however, I don't have an issue with cosmetic micro-transactions as long as there is plenty to be obtained without them.
Destiny 2 is an example of this being implemented poorly. Some of the most satisfying cosmetic items are locked behind a paywall in a game about becoming your own "legend" - it's counter-intuitive to the point of the game.
@akechicarlos I feel that you are missing the point to this topic. The progression of Sea of Thieves is to obtain some really cool cosmetics for your character. Kind of a medal in a way. This discussion is stating that since the point of this game's progression is to obtain good looking cosmetics, selling cosmetics for real money would make progression useless if you want to spend some extra cash. Now to your point about PVP. Right now there is no reward system of how many people you kill or how many ships that you sink. I actually am starting to get the feeling that the PVPers will get frustrated with this game and leave. Can you imagine chasing a ship for 30 minutes for them just to scuttle it right in front of you? That would make me quit playing for a bit.
@sprucetexas689 Very thin indeed! That is why I am nervous about a launch in March. What is going to motivate people playing this game? They have said that items will not give you any advantage. For people that could care less about how they look in this game will have no goals, right? With 4 ships per server, people in solo ships, which could be a server with only 4 people... I'm really curious what they will add to the game before launch to "thicken" this game. PVP is fun but without any rewards for kills and sinking ships, that will get boring fast. Lastly, the fact that you can scuttle your ship is a big middle finger to PVPers. Me and my crew chased a ship for 20 minutes and as soon as we got close to them to board, they scuttled their ship... really? really?
@stephenfarren said in Pay to Win in SoT:
@sprucetexas689 Very thin indeed! That is why I am nervous about a launch in March. What is going to motivate people playing this game?
You and me both buddy. A lot of people on this forum seem to be ok with no progression or carrot, having non-confrontational interactions, and "creating their own adventure", but quite frankly, I don't get that. Maybe I need to be a cosplayer to get it.
@djm-xr07 I would disagree, on the basis that there are many web/mobile games with the Cosmetic only model, and that function on the choice between time put in vs money paid.
Now if you can only buy cosmetics, that are unavailable in the game regardless of playtime, then its less a concept of pay2win, and more a question of fairness and greed.
What is the coolest or most interesting looks are subjective. Always. However, if for example you can only buy bland basic gear in game, but real currency costs to acquire any of the more elaborate looks, that is a plain and simple greed as people will feel wronged unable to "progress their look".
On the flip side, if its a question of can I buy the look now, or spend X time ingame to get it later. Well, that comes down to a personal choice / capability and is a reasonable trade off in my opinion. Case in point 3 months or so of MS point farming activities to get free Gold vs Paying for it no farm time needed.
@sprucetexas689 This my friend is how trolls are born. No progression, no carrot, let's make people cry I guess.
@si7van
I personally think if someone works for three months to get a certain item, it should show off that work, it shouldn't be able to be purchased with real money. That would destroy this game imo.@fullmetaljakee that's a fair outlook. I'd certainly agree most of the games which have a "Buy the big fancy mount for $15 now or farm for 8 months" are dialing up the instant gratification urges of a player base.
I do think there is a very specific type of careful balance that can be struck, that keeps incentive to those that earn as well as interest in those that pay.
Particularly in making cosmetics that are in game, unbuyable with currency, and only earnable say from an engame raid like content drop / rep grinds, and having a variant you can buy if all you like is the look and not the prestige that can be attributed to the earned version.
This way you can at the least differentiate the player base, who paid vs whose "earned" to a more amicable level. A slim example, not without its holes, but more along the lines where I find it reasonable and fair to both sides of the debate.
@si7van
I agree with you completely, as long as people know that you have either earned something or bought it, it's a fair system in my books.
I personally don't like having bought cosmetics because I know people look and know I paid to get whatever item. But, the option should still be there, there is no harm in it as long as they don't put a price on items that people work hard( in game) to get :)@stephenfarren said in Pay to Win in SoT:
@jesus-cane Because at this time, the WIN is the cosmetics earned through progression! If you PAY real money to buy cosmetics, you WIN! Hense PAY to WIN! I think you may be thinking about the PVP aspect of this game, that is not pay to win because cosmetics will not help you win a battle.
Of course. Why play the game to kill sea beasts, have sea battles, hunt down treasure and bounties, WHEN YOU CAN LOOK COOL
You (not you personally) people that say the game is about looking cool are beyond stupid
You don't even know if you can buy cosmetics or if they'll even be the same cosmetics as you get from the game
This is beyond dense
@jesus-cane said in Pay to Win in SoT:
Someone apparently doesn't understand what pay-2-win is
If you're paying for something that does nothing but make you look cool, then how tf does that help you win in an adventure MMO?
Some people are dense
No need to throw insults of sorts at people.
It's a simple concept and this discussion is basically about what people think of 'Pay to win'-Buying cosmetic items for real money, when in a game where nothing gives advantage, such as the ability to buy a weapon that gives an edge on the battlefield; the only obtainable things are asthetic, and what are people's views if they were able to bypass the grind and just buy them for real money. IF it was in the game.
Hence a sort of 'Pay to win' in some sense, even if the term is misplaced, it's a very relevant subject. This discussion isn't 'dense' in the slightest.@jesus-cane Why would you go kill beasts? Have battles? Kill peeps? Why do any of this if the reward is gold which is ONLY used to buy cosmetic items. Why do any of this if you can buy the same gear with real money. Bypass all the hard work and have the same reward. That is what we are talking about. For example, if I killed a Kracken and it took me 3 hours I received 500 gold. Now I want to spend that gold on something. There is only cosmetics that are purchasable in this game. I go to the shop and a hat is 800 gold so I go out and spend another 3 hours to kill another Kracken. That is 6 hours of my time to get a hat. Now I don’t want to kill Krackens anymore and I just want the whole outfit right now. So I type in my credit card info and buy the other 5 items of the outfit. That took me 1 minute to receive 5 other pieces that would have taken me many many hours of gameplay to receive. Please understand that this game isn’t overwatch! Overwatch cosmetic gear means nothing! The progression in that game is through levels and perks. It awards you on kills and wins. Sea of Thieves does not reward you on kills or anything to do with battle, it rewards you with gold! Gold that is used to purchase cosmetics which is similar to medals to show people the work you have put into the game. I hope you do not think this response is dense because I really dumbed it down for people that have a hard time figuring out what this thread is about. Cheers!
@djm-xr07 Cosmetics don't really affect gameplay... The only thing they are winning is a fashion contest
@stephenfarren again, this is only under the assumption that "captains outfit" which costs 500 gold will also be sold for $3.99.
Which is again probably not the case with cosmetic mtx. While "captain's outfit" is 500 gold, "ghost captain's outfit" which could be some weird variant or "krakens outfit" which could be something exclusively made as a mtx is 3.99.
I highly doubt cosmetic microtransactions would be just dumbed down shortcuts to outfits we can already buy in game as opposed to Rare taking an opportunity to provide people with other unique cosmetics that they continue to design.
@stephenfarren I think I know where you’re coming from, but a simple solution would be just to make the purchasable cosmetics different from the progression cosmetics and not allow for the cosmetics that would normally be unlocked to be purchased. Then anyone that has the Gold Hoarders stuff would have to have actually unlocked it and not bought it. Or am I wrong in that thinking as well?
@sprucetexas689 "You and me both buddy. A lot of people on this forum seem to be ok with no progression or carrot, having non-confrontational interactions, and "creating their own adventure", but quite frankly, I don't get that. Maybe I need to be a cosplayer to get it."
If you feel you need to be a cosplayer to understand how a game where you make your own adventure and goals is enjoyable maybe...this isn't the game for you. The genre is classified as a sandbox. I.E You have a pit of sand and it can be whatever you want it to be. Sandcastles, seas of monsters, but until you put imagination into it it's nothing but sand.
If you come into this game going "w*f is the point of this?" Maybe you should look for more linear games that hold your hand and show you the progression. The appeal for people of these games are the limitless possibilities. Sandbox MMO's/ games are the ability to socialize, to explore, to create, and to "live" these fantasy worlds. It's quite alright if that isn't your thing, but you'll find a game like SoT completely lacking if you lack the desire to put effort into making your own adventure.
60 out of 83
