Captain Missing D. Mark

  • I just got done watching Crud's rant criticizing Rare's newest SOT developer update, and it has me wondering if any of the playerbase's voices are getting heard.

    Everwild's cancellation is basically the preview of what will happen to Sea of Thieves if they do not get their act together. For the next community direct podcast thing the spokespeople at Rare do, they need to have a line dedicated to dedicated fans, content creators, and newer players to call in about their concerns with the current state and ask the developers any questions regarding their game. They keep missing marks and ignoring the community, but to truly fix that, you need the community to take direct control of the game's state by calling about concerns that Rare ignores.

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  • @karminiumsot said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    They keep missing marks and ignoring the community, but to truly fix that, you need the community to take direct control of the game's state by calling about concerns that Rare ignores.

    Not " to take direct control of the game's state" but to help by reporting all issues encoutered through proper channels, that is all the community can do.

  • @metal-ravage

    Sorry, but it is obvious that the community has been ignored. We report, and we have to wait for a grand update for our reports to be implemented, only for the game to break and new bugs are discovered. The community needs to realize that we run the game, we pay the developers by giving our money for ancient coins, we should have a major say when we discuss our concerns.

  • While I don't really disagree with what he's saying, I don't particularly take much credence in what the Crud/Theb crowd have to say tbh.

  • Sorry, but it is obvious that the community has been ignored.

    Well, a good part of the community dont know, speak up and often the "feedback" is more on lines of "change the game to be more Solo single player"

  • @valor-omega

    Why though? Everyone should voice their concerns now more than ever. It is starting to sound like the game will shut down. Watch the developer update and look at Drew, he knows something we don’t, we should be scared.

  • @karminiumsot I find him/that crowd obnoxious as all get out. All they've ever historically done is foster toxicity, act out, and generally make a bad name for PvP players with their behavior. Absolutely everyone can/should give their thoughts, I just don't happen to care much about theirs.

  • @valor-omega yea i get that, bad apples, but unfortunately he has been making points that are coming true.

    Me personally I think that Rare needs to really consider establishing communication between the devs and community. If we could directly message Rare about the issues we have, and they can play with us, then SoT could be saved

  • @karminiumsot said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    @valor-omega yea i get that, bad apples, but unfortunately he has been making points that are coming true.

    Me personally I think that Rare needs to really consider establishing communication between the devs and community. If we could directly message Rare about the issues we have, and they can play with us, then SoT could be saved

    That's what the forums and social media is for. Rare already knows the issues.

    That said, Phuzzybond has the opinion that hourglass is killing the server population, taking 30% of each server. In order for a match to happen, 4 ships need to be on the server. He mentioned the time hourglass was bugged, and how full servers were because of it. I'm sure diving has something to do with it as well, as my crew will spend seconds on a new server, dive to another server, and another, and another, looking for something interesting.

  • @europa4033 We all know Rare does not use forums. I see tons of ideas being locked. If they are repeat ideas, let people discuss, at this point no idea is a bad one

  • @karminiumsot said:

    @europa4033 We all know Rare does not use forums.

    You know for a fact that is 100% not true. Saying otherwise is intentionally disingenuous at best.

    I see tons of ideas being locked.

    You see posts being locked as they are against the Forum Rules, which every person who uses the Forums agreed to.

    If you have issues with any Moderation actions, or want to appeal, feel free to contact Support

    If they are repeat ideas, let people discuss, at this point no idea is a bad one

    Got to admit, 'a direct line' to Developers from any and all.... that IS a new idea....no idea how that would ever go wrong. At best, Developers would spend all their time answering questions?

    Good example of a bad idea.

  • SoT was at its peak when Rare was creating the Adventure that Rare wanted to create, and did less catering to the vocal portion of the community.

    The over-simplification of PvE. The extreme watering down of the loot pool. The insane expedience with which you can earn gold and progression. The introduction of Safer Seas. The elimination of any sort of importance or significance to any piece of loot that you can get from voyaging.

    All of that has lead to an environment where virtually nobody is adventuring or just, like, having fun.

    Rare created a masterpiece. Listening to the vocal minority is how the game got where it's at. If you don't think the incessant whining from the vocal minority about their hate for PvP and their "i CaN't eVeN lEaVe tHe OuTpOsT wItHoUt ThOsE tOxIc PvPeRs SiNkInG mE" hyperbole didn't have an impact on the direction the game has gone, you're fooling yourself.

  • @sweetsandman

    Simple put. They gave a simple carrot, believing that be the end of it. Nope.

    Hourglass was made to give "Instant PvP" now people want it as a Mode, with extra stuff, Comp style gameplay, and leaderboard.

    Diving created to "Get you started" with easy to do Voyages with no real risk to them (Raids are fine) but players use it to Skip around the servers looking for that 1 content or escape.

    Purchased Voyages and removed the need to travel to outposts and stock up on them. Everything by ship. Removing need to actually...stop/deliver cargo often and get more voyages until you have a hoard...and loose it all. (and complain later about pvp)

    Made Safer Seas. On paper, good fine, special place to get the hang of things, learn the ropes or just chill with the little ones.
    Nope...that was always gonna be a Safe haven for pve, single players...who want more.

    Gave a Carrot, wants the farm.

  • @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    Rare created a masterpiece. Listening to the vocal minority is how the game got where it's at. If you don't think the incessant whining from the vocal minority about their hate for PvP and their "i CaN't eVeN lEaVe tHe OuTpOsT wItHoUt ThOsE tOxIc PvPeRs SiNkInG mE" hyperbole didn't have an impact on the direction the game has gone, you're fooling yourself.

    That's definitely not the crowd they have ever listened to nor ever will. If that was the case, SS would be the gamemode that gets most developmental attention and they wouldnt be charging for Fleets.

    Preface: I develop my own RPG with a permadeath mechanic.

    The crowd that they have listened to that is killing the game is the crowd that seems to find the game boring. The ones diving was made for. It is no wonder these are the same players crooning the game is repetitive and stale.

    While, content like S18's Commendation track have us killing the same boss upwards of 10 times is once again, hits on a coercive repetitive gameplay structure. It feels so repetitious because the activity is packed into such a short time frame, and depending on how many times other pirates sink you, you might be fighting that Guardian WAY too many times. Yet, somehow, this boss was made to freshen things up, with an update cadence to also placate the aforementioned players that need content now now now.

    As for any kind of complaints about repetitive content in this game, I can't see it as any more than complaints about tiring of the gameplay itself. It blows my mind this is even a consideration for some folks. What is there not to get? Sail, fight baddies for as long as the player likes, maybe fight player (dont sink!), sail, sell, repeat. Interruptions come if another pirate sinks the player or an emergent event disturbs the loop. That's what you signed up for. Don't like it? Play HG or another game for a while.

    If you play WoW, you don't complain that you always press a hotkey to make a spell go, you don't complain that all bosses are basically the same: dont stand in goo, dont let tanks die, listen for audio cues. If you play Runescape, you dont complain you have to click trees or play the same minigame for dozens of hours to get your Woodcutting up.

    So for these players, the devs have made concession after concession to cut the meat and potatoes from the game and wonder why the seas are empty. Well, the answer is obvious, because no one needs to sail! By cutting out the journey, the destination is meaningless, and the experience shallow. No matter how much content the devs add, no matter how different the models on the treasures are it wont change the gameplay loop of the game.

    These players aren't wrong for their feelings, but the wrong concessions are made because even they don't understand what to ask for. Ultimately, the game feels boring and repetitive because the player's time is not respected. Recovering resources from a sink and losing a big treasure haul after a long session just doesn't feel good. The lack of respect for a players time again extends to Safer Seas which will now have paid features... but still no Captaincy. The simplest, easiest fix here is to not total loss players. Respect every session, even if its a sink. I'm not saying a HUGE amount, but... dang, just a little pence. Also, Captaincy for Safer Seas if you are going to be taking money to play for additional features, as to respect a players time and money.

    In the case of my game, as I prefaced this rant with despite being permadeath your dead characters corpse and encampments can be found in world and recovered, or their wealth passed on when you make a new character (I'm so original I know, never been done before /s). The only way for a player in my game to lose dozens to hundreds of hours of material progress is via choice. The same should be true of SoT, a total loss should only ever come when you hit that "Exit" button.

    Big rant to say that instead of cutting out the sailing from a sailing game and then needing to develop features to fill the sea again. Perhaps a better approach is to better respect a players time? Better yet, reward players for playing on full servers (but not in the same alliance or alliances) since dodging full servers or preventing mergers is an art many practice when they are on a big haul.

    Respect the time and risk instead of trying to code a solution, players will feel respected and adjust their behaviors accordingly. Stop listening to the players who don't respect their own time and don't actually want to play the game, just want number to go up.... you can make SS better for them and you have them as a player forever.

    Edit:

    Sorry, what I am trying to say isn't clear. You should listen to your players like one listens to their child. "My tummy hurts, I want candy" does not mean you can fix the tummy ache with candy. In this case, the tummy ache is the boring and repetitive state of the game, and the candy is instant gratification gameplay and too-fast development cycles. The job of the developer, like the parent is to find a root cause, and that is a lack of respect for player time.

  • @bellcurve9279 That is a lot of words to make the same point you have previously about Safer Seas, Kudos for trying to bury it.... but

    The game design and intent for Sea of Thieves is a shared world adventure, and it always will be. Those who wish to play in the confines of Safer Seas will always have the option but we will not bring the rewards and activities in line with those of High Seas when many of the restrictions are in place due to the risk vs reward factor that is inherent in Sea of Thieves - removing any risk means rewards must be balanced accordingly.

    Safer Seas will act not only as a safe space for our Tall Tale players but also for families with children who just want to pirate, for people who want to play the game but learn the ropes and it will organically feed into Adventure mode, keeping the player pool there healthy and upskilled as they've learned the mechanics.

    This is not only useful for new players but also families and players with accessibility needs - the whole game suddenly becomes available in a way it hasn't before, letting them naturally progress to High Seas and become a Pirate Legend. SoT has grown a huge amount in 5 years and it can be fairly overwhelming.

    The borders put in Safer Seas mean that to experience the full depth and breadth of the game you will have to hit the high seas BUT if you're playing with your family you don't have to, you can just enjoy the game and have fun as a family.

  • @look-behind-you said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    @bellcurve9279 That is a lot of words to make the same point you
    have previously about Safer Seas, Kudos for trying to bury it.... but

    That clearly wasn't the intent of the post and I have no intention of getting into an argument with someone with power over me who has a history of twisting my words.

  • @bellcurve9279 ....and yet.... 😏

  • @look-behind-you said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    Could be repeat post bc mobile forums bugs out

    You know for a fact that is 100% not true. Saying otherwise is intentionally disingenuous at best.

    There are many ideas that are constantly said in forums, and the devs have not even looked at them. Also, devs have said they fail to listen to the community, along with their missing the mark and failed expectations line. They obviously do not play their game and they need to be more in tuned with their community. I would totally love to play with a dev and show what needs to be expanded.

    I see tons of ideas being locked.

    You see posts being locked as they are against the Forum Rules, which every person who uses the Forums agreed to.

    some posts have been locked and there is no clear explanation why, but honestly this could just be picky bc some deserve while some don't

    If they are repeat ideas, let people discuss, at this point no idea is a bad one

    Got to admit, 'a direct line' to Developers from any and all.... that IS a new idea....no idea how that would ever go wrong. At best, Developers would spend all their time answering questions?

    Good example of a bad idea.

    "You know for a fact that is 100% not true. Saying otherwise is intentionally disingenuous at best."

    "Got to admit, 'a direct line' to Developers from any and all.... that IS a new idea....no idea how that would ever go wrong. At best, Developers would spend all their time answering questions?" What you just said contradicts itself. A direct line to the devs during a community direct will rebuild the trust the community lost with developers and moderators alike. We can give our most popular and intellectual SoT players a chance to voice their concerns.

    Drew Stevens, our favorite SoT developer, almost cried during his developer update, he knows something and he doesn't want to scare us. You made him cry. Trust is completely broken, more and more people are dissatisfied, and all we want is a proper experience where we can make friends or foes on the high seas and tell our children about the times we shared.

  • @karminiumsot said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    [Redacted] Trust is completely broken, more and more people are dissatisfied, and all we want is a proper experience where we can make friends or foes on the high seas and tell our children about the times we shared.

    Watch out pointing his emotions in that video, they will just delete your post.

  • @bellcurve9279 ok dont be smart about it. I'm saying that a spokesperson who loves us and the game is currently holding back emotions because he knows something is wrong behind closed doors. We need to unite and become a community that only strives to fix the game. If we create more unnecessary division now, we may never be able to play again

  • That's definitely not the crowd they have ever listened to nor ever will.

    Maybe not the crowd, but same tree on different branch.

    That's what you signed up for.

    Well...I can say, those on Gamepass..didnt sign up for it. They saw fav streamer, those Shorts on YT showing off all the Positive moments and think, That will be my session. Nope.

    Ultimately, the game feels boring and repetitive because the player's time is not respected.

    Got to learn and grow up. Your time is how well you manage it and deal when things dont go your way.
    I think of Elden Ring alot, you die...you lose whatever you had unless your able to get it back. Because you failed to save before hand. Your choice to dive in deeper with no fallback.

    Better yet, reward players for playing on full servers

    Should be Reward players for playing with others...Less solo crews. :p

    Stop listening to the players who don't respect their own time and don't actually want to play the game

    Soo..that falls under wanting to play SS only players.

    I have no intention of getting into an argument with someone with power over me who has a history of twisting my words.

    It clear as day...you mention SS and want it as another game, with full benefits. Without other players.
    Game is..as described, as sold. Online Multiplayer, Adventure game with PvP & PvE elements. Game will always be this, that a fact.

  • @bellcurve9279 I think we're saying the same thing here:

    By cutting out the journey, the destination is meaningless, and the experience shallow

    They've abbreviated voyages, eliminated sailing and exploration, and expedited the loot gathering and progression to such an extreme that the core gameplay is nearly unrecognizable from what it was when it was at its peak.

    And who exactly do you think they were catering to when they were concocting those changes? For sure not the PvP crowd. Definitely not the PvPvE crowd as they're by far the most true to the original design of the game. That leaves one crowd left...the PvE crowd.

    Now, one could argue that SOT in its current state is not really what the PvE crowd was asking for, but to say that Rare wasn't trying to cater to them is just turning a blind eye.

  • Well...I can say, those on Gamepass..didnt sign up for it. They saw fav streamer, those Shorts on YT showing off all the Positive moments and think, That will be my session. Nope.

    People still dump hundreds, even thousands of dollars into the game, so gamepass players could definitely sign up for it

    Ultimately, the game feels boring and repetitive because the player's time is not respected.

    Got to learn and grow up. Your time is how well you manage it and deal when things dont go your way.

    I did, I still feel disrespected about updates being canned and buggy

    Better yet, reward players for playing on full servers

    Should be Reward players for playing with others...Less solo crews. :p

    Make servers full by removing voyage diving.

  • @karminiumsot Without dragging the post too off topic further, as an Insider (unless you don't read/frequent the Insider section of the Forums) you can see Developers do indeed read and respond to Forum posts.

    Just because someone makes a Suggestion, does not warrant a Dev response. Again, they would spend all their time replying to 100's or 1000's of posts.

    Not sure what you mean by contradiction, Devs do read/respond....and a "direct line" to them would be a terrible idea.

    ...also not sure how I made Drew cry.... 🤷‍♀️

    Anywho....if YOUR emotions are getting in the way of factual posting, it's always best to take a break.... and please keep it on topic.

    Ta!

  • @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    And who exactly do you think they were catering to when they were concocting those changes? For sure not the PvP crowd.
    Definitely not the PvPvE crowd as they're by far the most true to the original design of the game. That leaves one crowd left...the PvE crowd.

    Grinders. Not PvErs, but Grinders, and in the worst way possible. In a way that leaves no one happy and the people they were trying to target even more bored and unhappy because their expectations for a good haul are so fast and high now.

    @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    Now, one could argue that SOT in its current state is not really what the PvE crowd was asking for, but to say that Rare wasn't trying to cater to them is just turning a blind eye.

    PvErs need a PvE game mode with reasonable rewards relative to reduced risk, not but not loaded inconvenience as punishment. PVErs would nver-to-rarely be interested in PvP or PvPvE unless you deeply incentivize them.

  • @karminiumsot Without dragging the post too off topic further, as an Insider (unless you don't read/frequent the Insider section of the Forums) you can see Developers do indeed read and respond to Forum posts.

    I don't you're right on that, but I do remember how smugglers was extremely unpopular and that still made the game, same with the eternal guard.

    Just because someone makes a Suggestion, does not warrant a Dev response. Again, they would spend all their time replying to 100's or 1000's of posts.

    True true, but sometimes an idea so prevalent does not seem to concern the devs.

    Not sure what you mean by contradiction, Devs do read/respond....and a "direct line" to them would be a terrible idea.

    We have the most popular streamers and SoT partners talk to the developers and SoT team about things that concern them, things they could improve on, and things they wish to see added. So basically communicating with devs directly to voice major concerns directly. If that's such a "terrible idea," then make devs look through the forums and find some that are really striking, maybe they can show us how they properly assess ideas.

    ...also not sure how I made Drew cry.... 🤷‍♀️

    you (plural). I feel that the recent development of the game puts SoT's dev environment in a bad spot, I cannot see why Drew was visibly sad during the video other than workplace problems.

    Anywho....if YOUR emotions are getting in the way of factual posting, it's always best to take a break.... and please keep it on topic.

    It was on topic?

  • @BellCurve9279 REALLY can't believe it need saying...AGAIN....

    Report them in a support ticket via Rare Player Support.

  • @bellcurve9279 said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    And who exactly do you think they were catering to when they were concocting those changes? For sure not the PvP crowd.
    Definitely not the PvPvE crowd as they're by far the most true to the original design of the game. That leaves one crowd left...the PvE crowd.

    Grinders. Not PvErs, but Grinders, and in the worst way possible. In a way that leaves no one happy and the people they were trying to target even more bored and unhappy because their expectations for a good haul are so fast and high now.

    I would argue that the grinders are the PvE crowd, they're just the absolute most extreme form of it (sure there's PvP grinders, but they effectively have only one thing to grind in the whole game). Diluting the adventure experience down to a point where anyone can complete the core gameplay loop in under 15 minutes successfully 9/10 times or better was a PvE focused change. That's not debatable.

    @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    Now, one could argue that SOT in its current state is not really what the PvE crowd was asking for, but to say that Rare wasn't trying to cater to them is just turning a blind eye.

    PvErs need a PvE game mode with reasonable rewards relative to reduced risk, not but not loaded inconvenience as punishment. PVErs would nver-to-rarely be interested in PvP or PvPvE unless you deeply incentivize them.

    Providing a full experience Safer Seas would have been not just listening to the PvE crowd, it would have been giving them exactly what they want and completely abandoning their vision for the game.

    The changes they made - including the addition of Safety Seas - was Rare bending to listening to the PvE crowd.

    I think we would both agree that they largely failed the PvE crowd with their execution. Worse yet, the changes they made resulted in failures for the other crowds as well. We all lost, but there's no debating who they were listening to.

  • @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    I would argue that the grinders are the PvE crowd, they're just the absolute most extreme form of it (sure there's PvP grinders, but they literally have only one thing to grind in the whole game). Diluting the adventure experience down to a point where anyone can complete the core gameplay loop in under 15 minutes successfully 9/10 times or better was a PvE focused change. That's not debatable.

    Semantics at this point. I'm trying to be more distinct about who I am referring to. It takes a very specific flavor of player to get bored of the amount of content in SoT, since, if you actually take a step back, there is an overwhelming amount of content. The trouble is that playing SoT is a bit like going to the same All-You-Can-Eat Buffet every day, quite quickly you tire of all 200 dishes.

    So, slowing the pace at which players can complete events and making the voyaging more rewarding, even in loss, would have a paradoxical effect. Give players a course dinner, not a buffet and much of the content remains fresh. Players will naturally compete for rare content without the need for "Forcing" like map markers and giant uggo clouds.

    @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    Providing a full experience Safer Seas would have been not just listening to the PvE crowd, it would have been giving them exactly what they want and completely abandoning their vision for the game.

    Sometimes, a dev's vision for a game is wrong. Notch's vision for Minecraft was to make up for decisions he didn't like with Wurm Online. Thankfully the rest of the Mojang team changed his mind.

    @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    The changes they made - including the addition of Safety Seas - was Rare bending to listening to the PvE crowd.

    Again, in the most bare minimum, gritted teeth "okay fiiiiiine" way. I don't know how much time you spend in Discord, but the PvE swabs are food for the rest of us, and with our current ecosystem thats just not sustainable.

    @sweetsandman said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    I think we would both agree that they largely failed the PvE crowd with their execution. Worse yet, the changes they made resulted in failures for the other crowds as well. We all lost, but there's no debating who they were listening to.

    Either no one, 'the data', or simply the wrong people.

  • If this turns into a PvP vs PvE Thread it won't be locked, folks will just sit on the naughty step.

  • @look-behind-you said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    If this turns into a PvP vs PvE Thread it won't be locked, folks will just sit on the naughty step.

    I know you're just doin your job and stuff but that is not what is happening.

    SweetSandMan is expressing who they feel is being over catered to and through this conversation him and I are trying to establish a dialogue on what specific aspect of the community it is.

  • PvErs need a PvE game mode

    PvErs need to go play a pve game then. This will always be a pvpve game. Nothing half this way or that way.

    Anyone who says otherwise or those who only do one over the other more. That is a choice but you’re restrictioning yourself.

  • @bellcurve9279 said in Captain Missing D. Mark:

    Semantics at this point. I'm trying to be more distinct about who I am referring to. It takes a very specific flavor of player to get bored of the amount of content in SoT, since, if you actually take a step back, there is an overwhelming amount of content. The trouble is that playing SoT is a bit like going to the same All-You-Can-Eat Buffet every day, quite quickly you tire of all 200 dishes.

    So, slowing the pace at which players can complete events and making the voyaging more rewarding, even in loss, would have a paradoxical effect. Give players a course dinner, not a buffet and much of the content remains fresh. Players will naturally compete for rare content without the need for "Forcing" like map markers and giant uggo clouds.

    The buffet vs multi-course meal is relatable.

    Think about a GH or OOS voyage back before Season 11. You never knew if you were going to get a single map single chapter voyage, or a multi-map multi-chapter voyage. Often times your voyage would take you all over the map, sometimes covering multiple regions. You had to navigate, plan a route, and most importantly keep your eyes on the horizon and change plans as the horizon changed. You were adventuring, creating your own mini-story, often uncovering side-quests along the way.

    Now, it's just "here do this one thing at one island as fast as you can, get that completion dopamine hit, rinse and repeat. Oh and you don't even have to sail there anymore." There's no more encouragement of adventure. There's no more nudging you to create your own story.
    _

    Setting aside our speculation, I went back and took a trip down memory lane. Reading through the old Developer Update thread for the diving content and voyage rework content is a sad trip.

    Rare stated that the goal was to: provide rich short session experiences, give players more control, and to make sea of thieves more approachable [for new players].

    So many people called out the negative impact diving and shortened voyages would have on the SoT experience. There were also plenty of others that said it would be great for the game.

    Quoting myself here:

    Hopefully it doesn't remove anything from those that prefer the current play loop.

    Boy, did I have no idea how much it would remove.

    Another notable one:

    ...Voyages need a rework, but not in a way that completely removes them AND sailing to an objective from the game. I might be a little premature, but I don’t see who this is made for. This won’t attract new players and it’ll take 40% of the game out for veterans.

    Yowza. Hindsight is always 20/20, but it sure does feel weird when the hindsight was actually foresight.

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