PVP Toxicity and Sexism

  • I'm a girl. And I'm never one to pull out the "sexism" card, I actually hate it when I see it in online gaming. Like, your gender shouldn't matter when it comes to games, it's the skill. But, when it comes to the situation in which I just encountered, I've officially had enough.

    I've quit the game for years at a time on a few occasions, but it was always due to just overwhelming toxicity in the PVP. EX: Alligned crews killing and ressing me over and over just for fun. Or, killing my crew over and over without even sinking our ship, so there's no point in waiting it out on the ferry.

    But, when a crew goes around not killing my team mates (3 males) yelling "where's the woman?" And only killing me? That's an issue. And toxic behavior like this seems to happen more often than not lately (not the sexism per say, just the toxicity.)

    I understand that the whole aspect of this game is to trust no one and keep your head on a swivel. The whole PVEVP thing. But, I really wish that there was something like the Safer Seas, only online with other players that are just interested in enjoying the game. I enjoy the social aspect of it, and after talking with quite a few other players, it's a pretty common thought.

    A few years ago, the PVEVP might've been great! But, with the servers being overrun by toxic PVP players, it's hard to enjoy any part of the game. Add in the fact that when you do report this behavior, there are little to no consequences to those actions. After trying a few times after being LITERALLY bullied just for being a girl and having slurs and curses sworn at me for it, I gave up when nothing came of me reporting it.

    I know that I am not alone in this. And I really wish that they would do something about these things, because this really is a great game! Just, please, take this into account. That's all I ask.

    Thank you.

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  • @lilflower0143 said in PVP Toxicity and Sexism:

    I'm a girl. And I'm never one to pull out the "sexism" card, I actually hate it when I see it in online gaming. Like, your gender shouldn't matter when it comes to games, it's the skill. But, when it comes to the situation in which I just encountered, I've officially had enough.

    A lot of people do say sexist stuff and a lot of people do say homophobic stuff as well.

    I don't think you are pullin' a card, you are just expressing how you feel about something you shouldn't have to deal with.

    I don't face much of anything in SoT as far as random encounters go. People might say random nonsense but I'm generally not being targeted in any personal way for being a dude that doesn't really react to stuff. I have it much easier than you and others in similar situations to you do.

    Not really a way to solve it or prevent it but your frustrations about it are entirely valid.

    The silver lining is that I think gaming culture is moving in a better direction. Slowly, but a lot of people are trying. It's less condoned than it used to be even though it can often feel like that isn't the case.

    I hope something works out for you in SoT. Tough thing to go through.

  • Record and report, it's the only way to solve the issue. If people are targetting you like that they will get banned.

  • Record and report. Don't engage with them, and switch to a different server.

  • only online with other players that are just interested in enjoying the game.

    and who isn't enjoying the game and still playing?
    Also, How do people come to find out your a "girl"? Name alone doesnt say or mean anything.

    with the servers being overrun by toxic PVP players

    Overrun meaning they are everywhere, yet my friend who are ladies...have never met these people from there D1 time playing.

    Add in the fact that when you do report this behavior, there are little to no consequences to those actions.

    How so? Being banned is very bad.

    Also, food for thought. "Mute" is a very underestimated tool that many online games have, nobody seems to wanna use for reasons unknown to me. Mute Other Crews voice/Chat and I have to deal with such child like behavior ever again.

  • Another record and report suggestion.

  • @burnbacon said in PVP Toxicity and Sexism:

    only online with other players that are just interested in enjoying the game.

    and who isn't enjoying the game and still playing?
    Also, How do people come to find out your a "girl"? Name alone doesnt say or mean anything.

    Mic, profile, randomly throw stuff out there until it sticks.

    People should have the freedom to talk, set their profile how they wish, get to openly participate without being targeted for doing it.

    There are many gamers that don't use a mic so they don't get targeted, try to make their profile or character a certain way so they don't get targeted. Play safer seas so they don't get targeted.

    Bullies should lose access if the evidence shows that is what is happening. People shouldn't have to hide or pretend they are something they aren't just to try to avoid being targeted and mistreated.

  • To those asking the OP to record and report, please actually read:

    Add in the fact that when you do report this behavior, there are little to no consequences to those actions. After trying a few times after being LITERALLY bullied just for being a girl and having slurs and curses sworn at me for it, I gave up when nothing came of me reporting it.

    My two cents... There needs to be a zero tolerance approach to this kind of behaviour, I don't think a silent strike on an account is enough when it comes to any kind of bigotry and clear targeting of certain vulnerable subsets of the community.

    When the new "reputation" system comes into effect, I would hope that it is clearly communicated when a player gets hit with points for behaving in such a vile manner.

    To the OP, I know it doesn't seem it at times, but there are far more positive and open-minded and kind folk in the community than bigots. It should never happen that you meet lowlifes like the ones you mention, and I hope as a community we learn to do better than allow it and hand wave it. Please stay positive, and remember the game needs folks like you more than you need the game. Happy Sailing.

  • only online with other players that are just interested in enjoying the game.

    and who isn't enjoying the game and still playing?
    Also, How do people come to find out your a "girl"? Name alone doesnt say or mean anything.

    with the servers being overrun by toxic PVP players

    Overrun meaning they are everywhere, yet my friend who are ladies...have never met these people from there D1 time playing.

    Add in the fact that when you do report this behavior, there are little to no consequences to those actions.

    How so? Being banned is very bad.

    Also, food for thought. "Mute" is a very underestimated tool that many online games have, nobody seems to wanna use for reasons unknown to me. Mute Other Crews voice/Chat and I have to deal with such child like behavior ever again.

    I hate these blame the victim replies. Bacon, I like you most of the time but maybe sit this one out.

    To OP, it’s disgusting you’re having to go through this and I hope future reports you make have more impact. Women in gaming should feel as safe as men do and misogynistic idiots who think it’s smart or funny to say the stuff out loud you’re hearing should be suspended.

    The replies are right about reporting and blocking, but I’d suggest enabling the speech to text setting so what they say out loud comes up as text on screen so you can screenshot that and use it in your reporting. I hope this is helpful and I’m really sorry you’re having to go through this.

  • @realstyli said in PVP Toxicity and Sexism:

    My two cents... There needs to be a zero tolerance approach to this kind of behaviour, I don't think a silent strike on an account is enough when it comes to any kind of bigotry and clear targeting of certain vulnerable subsets of the community.

    When the new "reputation" system comes into effect, I would hope that it is clearly communicated when a player gets hit with points for behaving in such a vile manner.

    Yeah, we'd need to see how the new reputation system is going to work. I don't remember if they said anything about it being publically visible either, so it could very well be the same closed box to the reporter even though the reported is now getting more information on their infractions.

    It's possible that nothing is being done, something is being done, or something has been done but the person reporting the incident doesn't get clear information on the outcome and whether their report was actually handled by a real person but I can also understand that might not be possible either depending on the volume of reports they get.

  • @lilflower0143 said in PVP Toxicity and Sexism:

    I'm a girl. And I'm never one to pull out the "sexism" card, I actually hate it when I see it in online gaming. Like, your gender shouldn't matter when it comes to games, it's the skill. But, when it comes to the situation in which I just encountered, I've officially had enough.

    I've quit the game for years at a time on a few occasions, but it was always due to just overwhelming toxicity in the PVP. EX: Alligned crews killing and ressing me over and over just for fun. Or, killing my crew over and over without even sinking our ship, so there's no point in waiting it out on the ferry.

    But, when a crew goes around not killing my team mates (3 males) yelling "where's the woman?" And only killing me? That's an issue. And toxic behavior like this seems to happen more often than not lately (not the sexism per say, just the toxicity.)

    I understand that the whole aspect of this game is to trust no one and keep your head on a swivel. The whole PVEVP thing. But, I really wish that there was something like the Safer Seas, only online with other players that are just interested in enjoying the game. I enjoy the social aspect of it, and after talking with quite a few other players, it's a pretty common thought.

    A few years ago, the PVEVP might've been great! But, with the servers being overrun by toxic PVP players, it's hard to enjoy any part of the game. Add in the fact that when you do report this behavior, there are little to no consequences to those actions. After trying a few times after being LITERALLY bullied just for being a girl and having slurs and curses sworn at me for it, I gave up when nothing came of me reporting it.

    I know that I am not alone in this. And I really wish that they would do something about these things, because this really is a great game! Just, please, take this into account. That's all I ask.

    Thank you.

    Record your sessions (not ideal for many I know, its not perfect).

    Archive the videos as well as this entire forum post (you might need it).

    Send a copy to Microsoft Corporate Public Relations with a formal complaint of harassment.

    Send a copy to Corporate Public Relations (if they have one) to Rare.

    "Role playing" can only be an excuse of far and so can "its only a game" and it sounds like (not a lawyer or judge) this coming to a line or crossed it all ready.

    Give corporate relations a shot then since this has become a trend in your sessions the legal route may be the next logical one. Good luck (no sarcasm as this behavior is disgusting).

  • @realstyli said:

    When the new "reputation" system comes into effect, I would hope that it is clearly communicated when a player gets hit with points for behaving in such a vile manner.

    New what now?

    I'm all for zero-tolerance of targeted harassment. But is this reputation impacted by confirmed reports or just any user feedback? If it's essentially pirate yelp reviews, then it's going to be subject to the same negativity biases and punitive weighting as yelp reviews.

  • @theblackbellamy said in PVP Toxicity and Sexism:

    @realstyli said:

    When the new "reputation" system comes into effect, I would hope that it is clearly communicated when a player gets hit with points for behaving in such a vile manner.

    New what now?

    I'm all for zero-tolerance of targeted harassment. But is this reputation impacted by confirmed reports or just any user feedback? If it's essentially pirate yelp reviews, then it's going to be subject to the same negativity biases and punitive weighting as yelp reviews.

  • @sairdontis4317 are you telling them to sue? the only option you should be taking is record, report it to rare, as long as you have proof theyre saying it (having the speech to text function is very smart regardless if youre trying to report someone) and after reporting it to rare the most likely situation can be an actual xbox account mute meaning they cant type or talk in game or on xbox, or they could get a 30 day suspension (if repetitive itll be perma) also another good idea is using party chat or discord to talk since open mic is just asking for it atp, or even a voice changer, yes it sucks that people behave this way, but finding fixes to stop it or solve it in the future is your best bet :D

  • @ws0072385 another thought, ive engaged crews like this before ive even helped others, you kind of get two options if you get spawn camped scuttle to new sea or scuttle and resupply to fight them, or see if someone on the ferry can help, ive helped crews before that did the second option its fun to see toxic people get tag teamed also toxic people are toxic regardless of race or gender they just do it more because they feed off reactions, if you stay on the ferry or scuttle they realize they dont get a reaction they want, and a thought on the safer seas gripe its meant to help new players learn in a environment free of the toxic players or any player in general you can test things etc in there too, and also server location matters too! east west and central are all dependant of each other and the toxic players are more active around certain times ive found for hourglass central is way more laid back compared to east and west, while east coast from like 3pm to 10pm EST is when theyre primarily on, west coast is around 7pm-11pm EST so plan accordingly to that too (i run into a toxic person maybe two times a month max)

  • @ws0072385 said in PVP Toxicity and Sexism:

    @ws0072385 another thought, ive engaged crews like this before ive even helped others, you kind of get two options if you get spawn camped scuttle to new sea or scuttle and resupply to fight them, or see if someone on the ferry can help, ive helped crews before that did the second option its fun to see toxic people get tag teamed also toxic people are toxic regardless of race or gender they just do it more because they feed off reactions, if you stay on the ferry or scuttle they realize they dont get a reaction they want, and a thought on the safer seas gripe its meant to help new players learn in a environment free of the toxic players or any player in general you can test things etc in there too, and also server location matters too! east west and central are all dependant of each other and the toxic players are more active around certain times ive found for hourglass central is way more laid back compared to east and west, while east coast from like 3pm to 10pm EST is when theyre primarily on, west coast is around 7pm-11pm EST so plan accordingly to that too (i run into a toxic person maybe two times a month max)

    Everyone is gonna see some unpleasant conduct and everyone will see some stuff that could be categorized fairly as toxic conduct.

    There is a difference in severity though.

    Some of it is predatory. A person (often men) that run around being ultra aggressive/demeaning/intimidating towards women/kids/heavily targeted groups/individuals are engaging in predatory behavior and that should be nipped in the bud real quickly in any community.

    It's not on the individual to try to co-exist with people treating them and others that way, it's on the community to watch out for it as a whole.

    It's also on men in the community to not excuse/enable it or justify it or dismiss it. Not within their bubbles, friend groups, gaming communities, none of it. Either that kind of conduct stops or it's time to find some new circles to roll with.

    Any time some sort of topic like this goes viral I ask that you read the comments in it. There is what people are subjected to and then there are the comments that they are also subjected to. Mistreatment on top of mistreatment in the form of "opinion". Unacceptable behavior by mostly men out in the open where everyone can see it.

  • @wolfmanbush trolls and toxic people are always looking for a reaction, the only reason they target women kids minorities is because they react more, i dont think saying "oh yeah it should be on men to deal with this" when both sides do it also if you have medal go ahead and watch top sot clips 90% are cheaters or trolls intentionally behaving that way to get a kick out of it, dont feed their behavior it wont happen as much, we give them attention and they do it more

  • @ws0072385 said in PVP Toxicity and Sexism:

    @wolfmanbush trolls and toxic people are always looking for a reaction, the only reason they target women kids minorities is because they react more, i dont think saying "oh yeah it should be on men to deal with this" when both sides do it also if you have medal go ahead and watch top sot clips 90% are cheaters or trolls intentionally behaving that way to get a kick out of it, dont feed their behavior it wont happen as much, we give them attention and they do it more

    Just about everyone I know on any kind of a friendly/personal level in SoT, that happens to be female, goes out of their way to not get harassed, treated creepily/unkind/etc.

    Whether that's safer seas, only sailing with other lady gamers, only sailing with people that they trust, or other ways of trying to not be targeted.

    It's not the same for men in sea of thieves or online gaming in general, never has been.

    Insult on top of injury is when we act like we are going through a comparable amount of targeting in a random online space.

    It's different, it's more severe. It's not dismissing the struggle of some to acknowledge the extra harshness that others face.

    It's real easy for some of us to say "don't react" when we don't face it as often or as personally as others do.

    Instead of building guilds around grinding/flexing/cheesing they should have been built around helping people find crews to sail with, so they don't have to deal with discord servers and social media and guild leaders that are just looking for worker bees. That's backing up words with actions to help people find crews they feel comfortable and safe with.

  • @wolfmanbush They can sign me up I just look for fun pirates to sail with all the other is just there.

  • @LilFlower0143 : Yeah... I've been there. -kind of-

    I am male but my char is female. And my username, as you can see, intends to be genderless. From time to time, some mono-neuronal-person thinks I am a girl and tries to insult me with that. I do not suffer for it but I might. And I understand who does.

    If they catch me in a bad mood day, I even make video and report it. Just for the potential pleasure of cleaning the house

    +1 to permanent ban to toxicity

    just 2 cents

  • Sorry to hear that you're going through this..

    For the time being and until the new reporting/points system is added, I'd just recommend muting other crews, or enabling voice to text, so whatever other crews say pops up on comms, as visual proof - I know that's not really an answer, but hopefully things will be more enforced in the future.

  • @lilflower0143 this is not a feature of SoT, but all games. It may just feel more prevalent bc other players can comm with you.

    Record and report! Don’t be discouraged, there are SO many great people to meet out there.

  • You don't have to play with them if you don't want to. Scuttle to a new sea is always an option.

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