Early Thoughts on Spear

  • I don't understand why it's an open world item. Like this feels like it would be perfect as a real weapon or throwable... And since it is an open world item I am scared it's just not gonna be accessible in HG. Like the worst thing would many of us PvP players not really being able to enjoy the weapon at all because it's not realistically usable in the part of the game we enjoy.

    Shooting it out of the cannons is a really interesting mechanic (would be way more interesting if it was a weapon btw) but I feel like it's definitely too weak. It depends how it actually works but I think the base mechanics of just a "corked" hole is going to be pretty pointless. With it just being a T1, you can literally ignore it with basically no consequence. If the spear prevents further damage in that spot, or is overridden with further damage (like the spear "falls out" and is replaced with a tier 3), it's going to be useless. The tier one is just way too little damage. If the spear stays in but the hole actually can increase in tier (effectively doubling the repair time), it'd be pretty good imo. We'll just have to see on this one, but it seems weak.

    When it comes to actually using the weapon in hand to hand, I think it'll be pretty chill. I hope it isn't just a one shot, but if it did like 70-90 damage it'd be fine. Not really much to say here.

    From here on this is my thoughts on what should/could have been done to make this better

    Starting off, I wish this was just a weapon or a throwable, not an open world item. Having it so you can actually use your weapon in the cannon, for an ammo cost, would have been really interesting IMO. As a weapon it could have also had a melee attack, just longer range than sword but longer time between swings and less damage. Ofc throwables already kind of work like how the spear does so that would have made more sense as well. Trying to pick up this "weapon" mid combat and load it into your cannon or use it against a boarder is just going to be so clunky and slow. I really don't understand their decision to make it an item.

    When it comes to shooting it out of the cannon I think it would have been really really cool if it put down a stronger harpoon line that you can easily walk across. This stronger harpoon line could let you freely run across it (w/o the mini game thing) and use weapons/items, it wouldn't have any pulling power but would hold both boats "rigid" (you can't get further apart), and it can't be cut/shot down (unless the tip is removed). You could keep the same level of ship damage that the spear already has and make that cannon unusable. This would turn it from a pretty useless dps tool to a really powerful and dynamic boarding tool. I mean just thinking of the decision making, do you shoot high for easier boarding or low for the extra damage? How does it affect the helming? When do you use it? Do you use multiple? Who is responsible for removing it? Is it better for the bilge to remove the harpoon or for the helm to keep an eye on any potential boarders? It's this kind of decision making and complexity the competitive community really wants out of these combat changes. I appreciate the recent efforts, but they have largely fallen flat.

    When it comes to the hand to hand utility, like I already talked about if it was a weapon it'd be cool if it had a melee attack. Maybe it could do 20 damage with 1.5x the range of sword and a .75x swing speed. When it comes to the thrown attack I think if it did like 45 damage with a fairly short time between shots it'd be cool. Definitely slower than dagger but much better arc and range. As a throwable I wouldn't change much, just get rid of the melee. The goal would be to make it replace blunderbombs job as the "extra underwater weapon" that most melee users treat blunderbombs as.

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  • I didn't know that thing was gonna end up being another pain in the hull of sloops.

    I'll shoot some at galleons but dang,

    not looking forward to running into any exploits involving that thing

  • Can’t wait to start dominating those megs much faster…..

  • @burnbacon yeah the casual side of me is hyped but the competitive side is disappointed. Pretty much everything they've added to the PvP side of the sandbox hasn't made a significant difference at the top level.

  • I’m hyped for it, but I’m also going to wait and see exactly everything it has to offer. The way it looked in the vid is when it hits a ship, it kinda plugs the whole. So why would I ever take it out if it’s only tier 1 damage? The vid doesn’t show off logistics, which is what I’m most intrigued about. So personally I’m just gonna wait and see before I make an opinion on whether I like it or not.

  • Pretty much everything they've added to the PvP side of the sandbox hasn't made a significant difference at the top level.

    Because most of the stuff in this season isn't designed for the PvP top level in the first place. Expanding and improving regular sandbox was the top priority (HC in this case).

    This entire season has a focus mostly on the PvE side of things from the start. I don't understand why people keep getting surprised over this, instead of setting real expectations.


    Maybe the next season will be PvP oriented. I honestly wouldn't mind at all if HG got some love, even though I'm super rarely PvPing. PvP players should get attention as well, not arguing that at all.

    Other than that, and on the topic - it makes no sense giving any feedback on this without actually seeing it in the action first, and after some decent amount of time.

  • @r3vanns "let's take our PvPvE sandbox and make half of the tools not work in PvP" yes this makes a lot of sense and is a great design philosophy (sarcasm). I will just never understand this argument. It doesn't take a ton of effort to ensure things can work at the top level, you just have to factor it in.

  • @fysics3037

    Well. Just gonna have to wait to see if anything actually changes for pvp
    Unable to patch right away but it’s tier 1 hole. Meh

  • @fysics3037 said in Early Thoughts on Spear:

    @r3vanns "let's take our PvPvE sandbox and make half of the tools not work in PvP" yes this makes a lot of sense and is a great design philosophy (sarcasm). I will just never understand this argument. It doesn't take a ton of effort to ensure things can work at the top level, you just have to factor it in.

    1. "Not working", and "not working how I want them to/hope they'll work" are 2 different things.
    2. You actually didn't even see them "work" yet.

    Just saying. No sarcasm.

  • @burnbacon there might be surprises to come.

  • @r3vanns if you can find a way for knives or blowpipe to outclass a top Gally crew in an hourglass match then be my guest. Until then, I'll continue in my belief that the mediocre stuff that puts you at a disadvantage isn't well designed for PvP

  • @fysics3037 said in Early Thoughts on Spear:

    @r3vanns if you can find a way for knives or blowpipe to outclass a top Gally crew in an hourglass match then be my guest. Until then, I'll continue in my belief that the mediocre stuff that puts you at a disadvantage isn't well designed for PvP

    I didn't address knives or any other related stuff as an attempt to help with top end PvP. You did, just now.

    Rare at any point in time also never claimed these were designed and added specifically to help with top end PvP. Just to add to the variety of weapons, and see how these will be used/how fun those will be.

    Again, same as with the season 12 - knives, etc, (in 13th you got BB), 14th and now 15th obviously were more focusing on the sandbox. Def not top end PvP.

    So, I still do not understand what point are you trying to make here. You keep complaining about stuff that was never designed to help with the top end PvP.

    In case you missed it, there you go again:

    Maybe the next season will be PvP oriented. I honestly wouldn't mind at all if HG got some love, even though I'm super rarely PvPing. PvP players should get attention as well, not arguing that at all.

  • @r3vanns so you're telling me that if they, for 2 years, added numerous "PvE updates" that did absolutely nothing to how you played the game, you would be perfectly content with that? If they add a weapon, I should expect the weapon to be balanced enough where I can actually realistically use it. Dunno how that's controversial.

  • @fysics3037 said in Early Thoughts on Spear:

    @r3vanns so you're telling me that if they, for 2 years, added numerous "PvE updates" that did absolutely nothing to how you played the game, you would be perfectly content with that? If they add a weapon, I should expect the weapon to be balanced enough where I can actually realistically use it. Dunno how that's controversial.

    You can realistically use it depending on the situation. Admittedly, these newly added weapons are more situational than universal. But they can be used, and are being used. Just not in the top end of PvP.

    And for the second time repeating - PvP players should get attention as well, not arguing that at all. I get the frustration, nobody is downplaying it. I'm just saying that this season, again, even though sadly for you PvP guys - was never focusing on the top end of the PvP.

    And stressing over that fact, can only do you more harm than good.


    I hope you guys finally get something to shake up the PvP meta and actually be useful in the top end, next season. I really do.

    Hell, I'm not shying away at all of admitting PvE-only fans got more love than you did. People got 100% rewards in SS before you got any change in HG. Let alone some other additions, apart from BB (which is definitely a complicated topic on its own)

  • @r3vanns I mean the frustrating part is that they haven't been far off having these things work at the top level. It's like they'll do 90% of the work to making a thing that works for everyone and then give up the last 10%, which is making it work for us. Idk why it's crazy to say that I think I should be able to play HG with any weapon without consistently putting myself at a disadvantage. I mean what's the point of adding a weapon to a PvPvE game if it's hardly viable in PvP. It'd be like adding skeletons to SoT but you can only interact with them using the bone callers. The question becomes "why is that not just roaming around??"

  • @fysics3037 said in Early Thoughts on Spear:

    @r3vanns I mean the frustrating part is that they haven't been far off having these things work at the top level. It's like they'll do 90% of the work to making a thing that works for everyone and then give up the last 10%, which is making it work for us. Idk why it's crazy to say that I think I should be able to play HG with any weapon without consistently putting myself at a disadvantage. I mean what's the point of adding a weapon to a PvPvE game if it's hardly viable in PvP. It'd be like adding skeletons to SoT but you can only interact with them using the bone callers. The question becomes "why is that not just roaming around??"

    Yea I get ya... tbh, at this point, I wouldn't object if they decided to completely rebalance all of the weapons. Whenever, really.

    For me personally, it would be interesting rediscovering my new style. Bring it on. It would be a refreshing change.

    And if it would satisfy the top end of the PvP crowd as well, all the better.

  • @r3vanns yep I agree, a full weapon rebalance would be cool. I have some ideas for one but I don't wanna post anything cus I haven't played since s13, so I haven't been hands on with the blowgun, harpoon gun, nor will I have been hands on with the spear.

    There's some shred of hope within me that they're just waiting for the hitreg/anti cheat to get better and then they'll focus on the PvP side of the game again... Surely that's the reason...

  • I'm just curious how the damage is going to end up being. It sounds like they can be found in the wild, but also purchased at the HC shop - not sure how many we're allowed to have, or if we can buy as much as we want.

    It looked like it one-shot the pirate in the video, but we also don't know if they had missing HP. If it's a one hit kill, I on one hand think that would be kind of cool, but on the other, it'd be really OP in the hands of someone with good aim.

    Damage to ships seems interesting - before removing the spear, it appears to cause tier 1 hole damage, but when removed becomes either tier 2 or 3. I almost wonder if people will just leave the spears in their hulls, and bilge the t1 water easier than removing, repairing, THEN bilging.

    Either way, I'm keen to give it a try. I dunno if this will shake up the meta, but if nothing else, I can't wait to try and one-shot pirates on the other ship with these.

  • @valor-omega said in Early Thoughts on Spear:

    It looked like it one-shot the pirate in the video, but we also don't know if they had missing HP. If it's a one hit kill, I on one hand think that would be kind of cool, but on the other, it'd be really OP in the hands of someone with good aim.

    Doubt it will be one shot kill. The video was staged, and I think they did the same "one hit" kill thing with the knives when they were previewed. It just makes the returning fire scenario look cooler on video.

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