@h0b0jo0e The point is though... that crew don't owe you a fight as much as you'd like them to...
It's their right to run as it is yours to chase... It's then a case of outsmarting, using ship mechanics or the tactical wait and pounce strategy.
If they gave you a way to ALWAYS catch a runner... then we'd have to give runners a way to ALWAYS escape.
@musicmee Honestly that's fine as well, but the whole reason the barrier in HG was made was to prevent runners. I'm just suggesting in either someone running in the ring or in adventure has to worry about the other crew boarding with an item that gives them a boost.
@burnbacon said in GET OVER HERE:
But if there is one side, Anti-chasing tool?
Chainshots, Anchor Ball.
No style has been carried in this game more than aggressive ships that feel they are owed what they see. It's not even close.
The mouse adapts and the cat goes to Rare for another feature that is imbalanced and serves their win condition.
People are supposed to lose and get away sometimes, it's the entire point of even playing this game. Different outcome in different situations.
"adapt" is something that people will say in SoT but the reality is that aggressive ships have never really had to adapt. Just about everything they do on the combat side helps server hopping ships get more wins.
Chainshot flooding, dock flooding, even more supply flooding, harpoon gun, easy to win and spammy big fast brigs, red sea change, anchor change.
They've been handing wins out for years and somehow that's still not enough?
If people get away sometimes from OP crews, good, that means there is still a point to playing the game organically.
One of the worst things that happens in gameplay in SoT is that people look out to the horizon on a server they just hopped on and feel that they are owed what they see. That's not how adventure works and that's not how balance works.
The [mod edit: funi launch] was an exploit found in order to catch up to pirates that could just run away for hours.
But it was an exploit. IE: Against the rules.
Also; Don't chase for hours if you can't catch up? You're not owed the fight.
So why not accomplish just that with a game feature?
No.
Maybe don't chase 'for hours' if you can't catch up? You're not owed the fight.
Maybe a new cannonball that is loaded while ur in the cannon to launch you the same distance as a boost just the exploit did or some other means.
No. You're not owed a fight just because you want it.
Don't chase if you can't win that chase.
The point is that there should be an anti-running tool.
Again; You are not owed a fight.
If you can't seal the deal; Stop chasing. You're not owed a fight just because you want it.
So no, there should NOT be an anti-running tool just because some PvP players think everyone else has to do what they want.
You can't win the chase? Stop chasing. They should not be forced to fight you.
@realstyli said in GET OVER HERE:
When the fisherman catches a fish with every cast of his line,
soon the fish stopping coming, and the fisherman cries "why?".
Except in SoT they don't ask why and that's the real issue.
They blame Rare when their own suggestions are what lead to the issues on PC servers with activity. Which is why I don't even know why Rare has catered to it so much, never been a good investment, imo. So much time has been spent trying to repair what some of these suggestions lead to I dunno where the payoff is for them. Other than "we listen".
It would be awesome if people asked why rather than put all the blame on Rare, then they would see how damaging it is to try to get Rare to step in to deliver more wins over and over.
Needs to be way more accountability with players and within feedback areas because a lot of issues were avoidable and a lot of damage was because Rare does listen and does implement things based on feedback.
They could have cut off the red sea for loot dumping before chain shots and said "enjoy the sandbox" "figure it out" and it would have led to better risk/reward than everything else they did to make sure the chaser is always OP when they want to be. Could have made chainshots just like wraithballs, the only thing that would have made any sense, power tied to activity and investment. Just like wraithballs.
It's never been a bad time to be a skilled server hopper crew with nothing on the line in Sea of Thieves, it only got easier and cheesier as time went on. But they always want more.
More conservation, less padded stats. The most resilient group in this game are the pve vibers. They've had to have developers and people playing outside of organic activity create ways to stop them from successfully adapting, multiple times. That's pretty awesome on their part.
@wolfmanbush said in GET OVER HERE:
@realstyli said in GET OVER HERE:
When the fisherman catches a fish with every cast of his line,
soon the fish stopping coming, and the fisherman cries "why?".Except in SoT they don't ask why and that's the real issue.
They blame Rare when their own suggestions are what lead to the issues on PC servers with activity. Which is why I don't even know why Rare has catered to it so much, never been a good investment, imo. So much time has been spent trying to repair what some of these suggestions lead to I dunno where the payoff is for them. Other than "we listen".
It would be awesome if people asked why rather than put all the blame on Rare, then they would see how damaging it is to try to get Rare to step in to deliver more wins over and over.
Needs to be way more accountability with players and within feedback areas because a lot of issues were avoidable and a lot of damage was because Rare does listen and does implement things based on feedback.
They could have cut off the red sea for loot dumping before chain shots and said "enjoy the sandbox" "figure it out" and it would have led to better risk/reward than everything else they did to make sure the chaser is always OP when they want to be. Could have made chainshots just like wraithballs, the only thing that would have made any sense, power tied to activity and investment. Just like wraithballs.
It's never been a bad time to be a skilled server hopper crew with nothing on the line in Sea of Thieves, it only got easier and cheesier as time went on. But they always want more.
More conservation, less padded stats.
Heh. One thing that drives me nuts about being attacked/chased in SoT is that, as the Target: I'm in a lose/lose situation.
This is why I run when attacked, every time; Because I know, 99.99% of the time, my attacker is not risking a single bloody thing attacking me. I get no reward.
I won't get anything if I win, other than a few cannonballs and planks to replenish what I spent fighting back.
There is 0 incentive for a target to fight back. They can lose everything or gain nothing.
Whereas an attacker will lose nothing or gain everything.
It's such a reward imbalance that encourages running in the first place.
But no, instead of fixing that underlying imbalance; Let's just add an 'anti-running mechanic' so the attackers can get their PvP on demand & gain all the loot while risking nothing. 🙃
Heck, I even have a fix for this!
When a ship with 0 treasure aboard sinks; The game takes the calculated value of all planks, food, fish, & cannonballs, then randomly adds or subtracts up to 2000 from that value.
That much gold-value in treasure will float to the surface when the ship has sunk, in random bits (Gems, goblets, chests, etc).
@guildar9194 said in GET OVER HERE:
Heh. One thing that drives me nuts about being attacked/chased in SoT is that, as the Target: I'm in a lose/lose situation.
- I have valuables aboard.
If I sink; I lose them.
If I win; Nothing changes.- The attacker never has treasure
If I sink; They got my treasure.
If I win; I get nothing.This is why I run when attacked, every time; Because I know, 99.99% of the time, my attacker is not risking a single bloody thing attacking me.
I won't get anything if I win, other than a few cannonballs and planks to replenish what I spent fighting back.There is 0 incentive for a target to fight back. They can lose everything or gain nothing.
Whereas an attacker will lose nothing or gain everything.It's such a reward imbalance that encourages running in the first place.
But no, instead of fixing that underlying imbalance; Let's just add an 'anti-running mechanic' so the attackers can get their PvP on demand & gain all the loot while risking nothing. 🙃
Something that is truly concerning that has been going on the last year or so is justifying exploits when chasing. That's how bad the entitlement within the style has become. Acting like it's ok and justified to exploit against others because of a failed personal objective.
The worst part is that is has become a reality in some ways. They try to patch out the launch exploits while they bring in a harpoon gun. Entirely missing the point of the damage that the launch exploiting causes.
Running is 100% a valid strat. It's like saying that everyone should be a barb and it's wrong to be a sorc in diablo. What in the world are we even talking about at this point lol? It's entirely valid to sandbox in the sandbox.
I don't always run but when I do it's because of what you mentioned.
The last time I ran (first time in a long time) was recently when I was a grade 4 Hunter's Call Emissary. I spotted a fresh spawn, non-captained, no flag, default ship leave an outpost head directly my way. I had nothing on board apart from the flag, so I sailed into the wind to test their skills, and sure enough they managed to keep up for about the map, sailing like experienced pirates. I couldn't dive, so I portal hopped after losing them briefly around a rock. I don't give these players the satisfaction of a fight. All they had to do was raise an Emissary and I would have traded iron. But I had nothing to gain and they didn't deserve my time.
@realstyli said in GET OVER HERE:
I don't always run but when I do it's because of what you mentioned.
The last time I ran (first time in a long time) was recently when I was a grade 4 Hunter's Call Emissary. I spotted a fresh spawn, non-captained, no flag, default ship leave an outpost head directly my way. I had nothing on board apart from the flag, so I sailed into the wind to test their skills, and sure enough they managed to keep up for about the map, sailing like experienced pirates. I couldn't dive, so I portal hopped after losing them briefly around a rock. I don't give these players the satisfaction of a fight. All they had to do was raise an Emissary and I would have traded iron. But I had nothing to gain and they didn't deserve my time.
I've never understood getting fired up over running.
I'm a solo sloop and I think everyone with treasure should run from me. Not because I think I'm good, because why wouldn't they? If someone wants to make progress, go for it. I support that move. It's on me to figure that puzzle out before they succeed.
That's the entire point of the hunt, for me to out play them. Not for me to be the big tough pvper, not for them to hand me a charity fight. They should do everything they can (within fair play) to try to outplay me. Every time. That's what makes the treasure worth picking up and selling in a hunt scenario.
I play organically so I know that these ships are on the servers for HOURS sometimes before they sell. That's why investing in a server is worth it. Plenty of wiggle time.
It boggles my mind that people play non-solo and think that a few getting away is what is "wrong with the game".
Most of the people out there doing stuff are playing casually and probably play less in a week than I do in a day. Make that progress, it's all good.
I fight when I have something to gain or something to defend. In this instance, I didn't. So I ran on principal.
SOT's gameplay is far too slow for legitimate run/chase mechanics, but I do think balanced risk/reward tools for running/chasing would be really cool.
Like smoke bombs that can be dropped off your ship, but are on some sort of tether that also does damage to your ship when it explodes. The mechanic for a smoke bomb already exists (ashen lord special attack)... I'm genuinely shocked we don't have something utilizing that already.
Or some sort of cursed weapon ammunition that could have the slowing effects that the Skull of Siren Song delivers but as a counter measure it deals damage to your pirate when using it or the ammunition takes up your second weapon slot or something like that.
Work-shoppy ideas, obviously, but I do think it would be neat.
I mean there's the horn of fair winds, harpoons (especially with the walking), harpoon gun, taking masts down, and rigging/anchor balls to help you catch people. I wouldn't say running is a big issue. However as a man of culture, I do agree that they should bring back [me edited, you're not getting me mods: funny launch] because it was incredibly fun to use. Or some other thing that allows you to do a similar thing, perhaps like a glider potion that gives you a similar effect. Minecraft elytras in SoT would be peak ngl.
@h0b0jo0e said in GET OVER HERE:
The point is that there should be an anti-running tool.
There is no reason to have an anti-running tool. No one owes you a fight and if they would rather run away or even try to outsmart you by baiting you, then they should be allowed to do it and it is your choice to chase or not.
@wolfmanbush said in GET OVER HERE:
The worst part is that is has become a reality in some ways. They try to patch out the launch exploits while they bring in a harpoon gun.
To be honest, I don't mind the harpoon gun. I actually find it funny when people uses it because it's so ineffective at the boarding part of well boarding. It's good at giving you multiple tries to grab the ladder, sure. However, boarding? You're down one weapon and you still have to climb up the ladder that is more likely to be guarded because harpoon guns are VERY LOUD. I'm more worried about deckshots than harpoon guns.
@wolfmanbush said in GET OVER HERE:
Running is 100% a valid strat.
It also have different variations too, and not simply just "running away from everything". I love baiting ships chasing me into other player ships or events when I don't want to give them a fight. I could also just be selling all of the good stuffs that I have so I ain't risking anything I don't want to risk.
@jusey1z said in GET OVER HERE:
It also have different variations too, and not simply just "running away from everything". I love baiting ships chasing me into other player ships or events when I don't want to give them a fight. I could also just be selling all of the good stuffs that I have so I ain't risking anything I don't want to risk.
Back in the day I used to sink boats just by triggering skelly galleons lol.
Same with stationaries and keg plays.
Boats are so tanky now and stuff gets nerfed over time so it's more difficult now.
Few years ago just a well timed keg and some sword play could sink even the experienced bigger ships.
Personally I give every ship a chance that attacks me. If they stick to the basics (put cannon pressure on me, then board) then it's all good. If they start spamming and doing a bunch of annoying meta stuff or if they are resetters as the bigger crew then I'll play survival mode just to require more time. I have no tolerance for spam anymore. Hit shots then close the deal or I'm gonna drag it on for the principle of it.
If they play in a way that I know makes it worse for solos then I'll spend a solid 2 hours just making a point out of it. It's fun knowing that crews aren't getting away with something that they almost always get away with against solos/sloops.
Adventure is fun and should be fun. The scenario is what makes the pvp fun. Metas are boring.
That's why I appreciate getting kegged randomly and rowboat plays by others and all that. Random and variety encounters/combat are fun.
With all that being said, I love casual crews on sot. I'll give them lots of time and patience. It only takes a few seconds to tell the difference between casual players and regs that take it too serious.
Solos/sloops that are trying to avoid getting sunk lose more to panic and hesitation than a lack of skill or power. Steady breathing, it's just gameplay, don't hesitate, commit to the decisions. Nothing bad is gonna happen no matter how it turns out in the game. Get those win conditions.
