Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty

So give cheaters a chance to make their exploits even faster

@acnologia1403 said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

So give cheaters a chance to make their exploits even faster

PTBs are used in a lot of games. They don't give cheaters a chance to develop cheats any faster than they currently could do and a PTB gives Rare time to patch exploits before retail. The timing for updates to the PTB would simply replace the current dates for Retails - effectively, it would be a delay to Retail releases, but with the benefit of better releases.

PTB won’t change anything. A hidden bug will always appear no matter what.
*edit
Let think about this. They have a test server for new season, players flock to it and spend maybe a week of game time trying out these new features.
Afterwards we have two problems.

1. players who play the test server who will demand all the hard work they did to earn achievements be transfer so they don’t have to repeat.
2. You do know they even test cars before releasing them to the public. And yet an unforeseen variable appears causing a recall and maybe deaths.
   . Public server won’t change much. What worse, what happens when they find bugs? They gonna hold off on releasing the season for a month? While they fix it

Remember last time a season was held for more than a month. Because it wasn’t ready. Yeah the community here wants to test all this and prevent bugs but the cons of it all isn’t gonna still make players mad and upset when things go south

@burnbacon said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

PTB won’t change anything. A hidden bug will always appear no matter what.

I was waiting for your comment, BB. You didn't disappoint.

This season makes me think that live actually is the test build.

Only thing that wasnt bugged is the merfruit.

@astralenigma said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

I gotta agree with @capt-pilotes and @BurnBacon PTB wouldn't solve the issue of hidden bugs on the other hand a bounty to finding and reporting bugs is a good way to get the reports coming though I wouldn't limit the prize to only the first person reporting it but instead allow everyone that reported it to be rewarded from a pool based on the bug reports until it gets confirmed by the QA team and added to a bug bounty board.
That way people will feel compelled to report bugs specially the more niche ones.
Of course it would require a standard to bug reports to make them eligible like reproduction methods or something to allow them to be found easily.

Wouldn't people not report a bug or exploit found on Insiders and wait with reporting until they have a chance on a reward on the PTS ?

@e3pos said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

This season makes me think that live actually is the test build.

This is exactly what a PTB would be designed to alleviate. By the time the update hits Retail, it would be in far better shape. If someone never played the PTB, their experience would be a lot smoother overall. For those who choose to play the PTB, they'd get an earlier view at new features but should have the expectation of running into some bugs and issues.

At the end of the day, it's clear Rare needs more time and more testing. They are not equipped internally to test everything in a game of this scope and complexity, and the more people playing the game and finding issues, the better for the game. Unfortunately, as alluded to by Drew, Insiders don't get enough time with a hardened build... and, even if they did, it's not open to public testing.

@astralenigma said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

I gotta agree with @capt-pilotes and @BurnBacon PTB wouldn't solve the issue of hidden bugs on the other hand a bounty to finding and reporting bugs is a good way to get the reports coming though I wouldn't limit the prize to only the first person reporting it but instead allow everyone that reported it to be rewarded from a pool based on the bug reports until it gets confirmed by the QA team and added to a bug bounty board.
That way people will feel compelled to report bugs specially the more niche ones.
Of course it would require a standard to bug reports to make them eligible like reproduction methods or something to allow them to be found easily.

Having the bounty awarded to the first report does a number of things; it increases the likelihood of a report and it doesn't allow for a scenario where a group of people work together to all get a reward. A person is more likely to report something ASAP if they are worried someone else will pip them to the "prize". They are also less likely to spread information about the exploit, reducing the scenarios we've had recently where exploits are shared among certain groups and used to cause havoc.

@burnbacon said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

1. players who play the test server who will demand all the hard work they did to earn achievements be transfer so they don’t have to repeat.

This is what pop-ups when you join a build are for. They make it clear the limitations you sign up to.

2. You do know they even test cars before releasing them to the public. And yet an unforeseen variable appears causing a recall and maybe deaths.

Not a comparable situation. We're talking about a videogame, not life or death.

Also, more testing is always better than less.

. Public server won’t change much. What worse, what happens when they find bugs? They gonna hold off on releasing the season for a month? While they fix it

It would be better than a broken release or lots of bugs.

Remember last time a season was held for more than a month. Because it wasn’t ready. Yeah the community here wants to test all this and prevent bugs but the cons of it all isn’t gonna still make players mad and upset when things go south

Decisions shouldn't be made on the basis that they might upset some children who don't have the patience to wait on a better overall experience.

Decisions shouldn't be made on the basis that they might upset some children who don't have the patience to wait on a better overall experience.

And I 100% agree with you. But the problem is that these same children are paying for plunder pass and new seasonal cosmetics. So you know where I'm getting at. Why wait on cash income, when people will still play live version of the game no matter how riddled with bugs it is. It's less harmful for the pocket to fix things along the way. And many companies have this same mindset. Not just Rare.

And if the majority of their player base are children... welp... hahaha

@realstyli the real issue is rare not listening to the feedback when the bugs are reported. It's not a matter of insiders not finding them it's that the bug reports aren't taken seriously.

@r3vanns said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

Decisions shouldn't be made on the basis that they might upset some children who don't have the patience to wait on a better overall experience.

And I 100% agree with you. But the problem is that these same children are paying for plunder pass and new seasonal cosmetics. So you know where I'm getting at. Why wait on cash income, when people will still play live version of the game no matter how riddled with bugs it is.

They will still pay for Plunder Pass at release. People still play the Retail version of the build, sure, but there is only so much patience have for the bugs.

It's less harmful for the pocket to fix things along the way. And many companies have this same mindset. Not just Rare.

I would argue the opposite. It's extremely harmful to the reputation of the game and retention of the playerbase long-term.

@captain-fob4141 said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

@realstyli the real issue is rare not listening to the feedback when the bugs are reported. It's not a matter of insiders not finding them it's that the bugs reports aren't taken seriously.

I've said, and it's been my opinion for a long time, that Insiders is not a test environment. As I've said, and Drew alluded to it in the video, Insiders do not get enough time with a hardened build to test it appropriately. By the time Rare even see bug reports, it may be far too late to actually do anything worthwhile.

PTBs are what a lot of games do and they are more effective than a closed test at finding problems. It ensures those who only play Retail/Live builds get a far more fluid and bug-free experience.

I would argue the opposite. It's extremely harmful to the reputation of the game and retention of the playerbase long-term.

If it was so, this game would've died years ago. Because this same behavior keeps repeating over and over. Why? Cause community allows it. How they allow it? With their money.

I've so many times heard "fix this faster or the game will die" "you'll lose your core player base" etc that I've lost count.

Yet, here we are. :D

PS. again, don't get me wrong. The same stuff was bothering me for a while, until I eventually stopped caring cause I got used to it. I'm on your side, but at the same time doubt they will ever change. At least not until something reaaaaally hurts their pockets.

@r3vanns said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

I would argue the opposite. It's extremely harmful to the reputation of the game and retention of the playerbase long-term.

If it was so, this game would've died years ago. Because this same behavior keeps repeating over and over. Why? Cause community allows it. How they allow it? With their money.

I've so many times heard "fix this faster or the game will die" "you'll lose your core player base" etc that I've lost count.

Yet, here we are. :D

PS. again, don't get me wrong. The same stuff was bothering me for a while, until I eventually stopped caring cause I got used to it. I'm on your side, but at the same time doubt they will ever change.

Look, I love Rare, and I have a lot of respect for the devs. They're one of the most "human" companies out there. I was very much in the "we've heard the game is dying since 2018, nah lol" camp for a very long time but with the public release of stats from community weekends, we have solid data [from Rare] that shows a clear decline in the playerbase over the last year or so. Even allowing for the bump after the PS5 release, the trend has been downward.

It's not for a lack of content, I think they've done amazing work in that regard, but it's because of the game's health. Yes, it has always been a struggle, but it's been a lot worse over the last couple of years.

Some players "get used to it" but others have a lot less patience when there are plenty of other games out there to grab their attention and are far less frustrating. It's just a video game at the end of the day and most people are going to choose where to spend their time based on the fun they have playing it.

If they increase the game health for the Retail build, they are more likely to retain players. If they retain more players, that's more money flowing into the game. The key is that the Retail build has to be in better shape, always.

PTBs work. Games like Dead by Daylight and Overwatch (1 & 2) have shown that. Both games are older than SoT and thriving.

@d3adst1ck said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

@realstyli said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

PTBs are what a lot of games do and they are more effective than a closed test at finding problems. It ensures those who only play Retail/Live builds get a far more fluid and bug-free experience.

It would seem to me that the players who would participate in a PTB are likely already in Insiders, so having an overlap like that doesn't give as much benefit.

PTBs are usually for games that don't already have an open testing program.

I can't really go into discussing the distinction without saying what Insiders actually does, so I won't. But I think there is a place for both to have separate functions.

@realstyli said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

@r3vanns said in Public Test Build Before Release/Exploit Bounty:

I would argue the opposite. It's extremely harmful to the reputation of the game and retention of the playerbase long-term.

If it was so, this game would've died years ago. Because this same behavior keeps repeating over and over. Why? Cause community allows it. How they allow it? With their money.

I've so many times heard "fix this faster or the game will die" "you'll lose your core player base" etc that I've lost count.

Yet, here we are. :D

PS. again, don't get me wrong. The same stuff was bothering me for a while, until I eventually stopped caring cause I got used to it. I'm on your side, but at the same time doubt they will ever change.

Look, I love Rare, and I have a lot of respect for the devs. They're one of the most "human" companies out there. I was very much in the "we've heard the game is dying since 2018, nah lol" camp for a very long time but with the public release of stats from community weekends, we have solid data [from Rare] that shows a clear decline in the playerbase over the last year or so. Even allowing for the bump after the PS5 release, the trend has been downward.

It's not for a lack of content, I think they've done amazing work in that regard, but it's because of the game's health. Yes, it has always been a struggle, but it's been a lot worse over the last couple of years.

Some players "get used to it" but others have a lot less patience when there are plenty of other games out there to grab their attention and are far less frustrating. It's just a video game at the end of the day and most people are going to choose where to spend their time based on the fun they have playing it.

If they increase the game health for the Retail build, they are more likely to retain players. If they retain more players, that's more money flowing into the game. The key is that the Retail build has to be in better shape, always.

PTBs work. Games like Dead by Daylight and Overwatch (1 & 2) have shown that. Both games are older than SoT and thriving.

You know, Valheim has PTB.

They ditched the roadmap eons ago, screwed over their own player base over and over. The slowest and laziest content released I've ever seen, some bugs from day one still present in the game, tons of people complained about slope combat for years, for lack of mounts, for lack of buildings, bad optimization the more you build/edit terrain, for imbalance between single player and co-op, etc. On top of that, they released a board game for an unfinished game (they still owe their players 2 more zones they promised). After months and months of backlash on Steam posts/Discord, as a sack of salt on the already bleeding wound. They listened to nobody.

And do you know what I see on Steam? ~21k players active (as of time of typing this). Even though it may have been much more in the previous 1-2 years compared to now.

Conclusion: all games have cycles, and eventually die out due to slowly losing players. This paves the way for new games being made and profited of from.

But during a game's life, big changes (usually) only happen if a company feels seriously financially threatened. IronGate (Valheim devs) obviously wasn't, same as Rare obviously STILL isn't. Whatever their reasoning may be.

As I said before, as long as community allows it. Either by not caring that much about it, or actually agreeing with it. Only money matters, and what's a priority to the company. Not you or me as players.

I also saw Falcore's video suggesting this. The whole idea is progress on insiders is not to transfer over to main accounts; That's why we have the silver blade set. The answer isn't to make insiders more exclusive but the answer is to maybe make the cosmetics look bad. We all love to look cool (There is litterly a whole fasion scene). Silver blade stuff looks awsome and that's why I think people test insiders. ONLY FOR THE COOL REWARDS. However, There are some who acutally care and will test the early game(Hats off to you). To get people actually report bugs, as they should be doing, make bad rewards or make the rewards easier so they can get the rewards and not playtest again once they are done. Thisway the only people who care about finding bugs would be contributing.