Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change

@savvystraw37257 said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

I really hope they do something like this:

Taaamas (@bsky.social) on Twitter / X

Can always rely on Taaamas to come up with some clever ideas! I do like this and it's much better than an all-out block on turning in.

I think another way of fixing it could be to make the commendation progress “hit a streak of 8” and not “turn in a streak of 8.” Then crews would feel less like the moment they hit 8 they need to run to reapers to turn it in.

I do think adding value to sinking your opponents would also be a good change.

I just feel like it's an odd complaint. Literally every other high-stakes treasure (Athenas, Chests of Fortune, Siren's Skull, etc) all have similar scenarios - crew runs with the treasure to turn in.

The only difference with the Burning Blade is that it's a single turn-in, for stacked loot, which I can see some frustration with runners, but even then.

Yes, it's a PvP-centric world event, but people are treating it as if it should be handled like hourglass, yet they do not wish to have actual hourglass rep/allegiance awarded...

@valor-omega said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

I just feel like it's an odd complaint. Literally every other high-stakes treasure (Athenas, Chests of Fortune, Siren's Skull, etc) all have similar scenarios - crew runs with the treasure to turn in.

Exactly, should we make so you can't sell any treasure while another ship is nearby?

The only difference with the Burning Blade is that it's a single turn-in, for stacked loot, which I can see some frustration with runners, but even then.

Yep. You also need the entire crew to vote, so it's already harder dependent on crew size.

Yes, it's a PvP-centric world event, but people are treating it as if it should be handled like hourglass, yet they do not wish to have actual hourglass rep/allegiance awarded...

Would actually be great if they could add allegiance to the event for defending it somehow.

This is so true.

All the hardcore PvPers buddied up and hammered out the commendations in the first week. Now, they're going back to being solo and they're realizing that they're helpless to stopping the BB.

Balancing the difficulty of the ship to both manage and to attack is the only thing that needs to be done. It's OP at the moment. The finish line is not the problem. It's all the stuff leading up to the finish line

If all you wind up doing is making the turn-in somehow more complex, you'll perpetuate a gatekeeping mentality and there will be campers at the hideout constantly. Handle the rebalance carefully or you'll kill this event straight away.

@rotten-rocko said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

I also think.they should make it a requirement to do at least one ritual before handing into flame heart.

I agree with this, absolutely. I think one ritual is the minimum that Flameheart would expect.

@realstyli Like... some of the highest-octane moments for my crew and I, have come from instances where we fight and fight, and players just keep coming back, so we have to try to quick sell the high-ticket loot. I really hope this isn't going to set a precedent for all other loot in the future..

And like here's the thing also.. there's only ONE place the Burning Blade can be turned in; Reapers. There is literally nothing stopping anyone from sending swimmers/rowboats to reapers, to prepare an ambush. Like I get it; runners on a new event are annoying, but if these supposed "skilled" crews can't lock down the BB before they escape, I feel like that's a skill issue.

Making it so you can't turn in/lower when there are players around is going to result in a far worse outcome, than if it's kept as is, imho. Fighting is fun don't get me wrong, but fighting the same exact crews over and over, that respawn an island away with fresh supplies, due to SoSS is incredibly annoying.

And if this change HAS to be pushed to cater to the upset PvP crowd, then they should also add reward/incentive to actually keep fighting with the Blade by making piloting the Blade worth Hourglass rep, and SINKING the blade worth hourglass. Most people just want the cosmetics, and don't want to bother fighting four hours on end for a non-hourglass event.

@valor-omega said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

And like here's the thing also.. there's only ONE place the Burning Blade can be turned in; Reapers. There is literally nothing stopping anyone from sending swimmers/rowboats to reapers, to prepare an ambush. Like I get it; runners on a new event are annoying, but if these supposed "skilled" crews can't lock down the BB before they escape, I feel like that's a skill issue.

Making it so you can't turn in/lower when there are players around is going to result in a far worse outcome, than if it's kept as is, imho. Fighting is fun don't get me wrong, but fighting the same exact crews over and over, that respawn an island away with fresh supplies, due to SoSS is incredibly annoying.

Yep, and I think we all know the kind of players who are asking for this kind of addition.

@savvystraw37257 said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

I really hope they do something like this:

Taaamas (@bsky.social) on Twitter / X

The finish line is NOT the problem. It's the entire balance of the race leading up to the finish line that is the problem. There's a reason that absolute potato crews can even make it to the finish line...rebalance the race, not the finish.

All this idea will do is turn the Reaper's Hideout into a TDM fest. Which, candidly, I would find super fun, but I'm not daft enough to not realize that it would simultaneously kill this event for pretty much anyone but the sweats...Hourglass sound familiar?

My ideas were, should turn-in be blocked by nearby ships, was that the system should be designed for one of two things; either the rival(s) have to be Athena's flagged or they have to vote into Guardian hourglass to block turn-in, making the finale a last ship standing. You want to block it? Then place a stake in the game

However, with that said. I hope they don't go for proximity based blocking because it'll be way too easy for opposing ships to sit along the threshold of the block, meaning they could lockout the Burning Blade crew for a long time, and even themselves 'run' when approached for combat.

I honestly think a proximity block will result in weaker PvP players giving up with the event and lots of timewasting, with more running as either side 'run' in the hopes the other will just leave the game.

Hopefully, whatever they do isn't as simple as a ship is sitting at Twin Groves, no turn-in for you. But it's Rare, so I'm sure it will be.

In particular, I do like the ideas of sinking ships adding to the ritual count and the commendation changed to reaching an 8 streak, instead of 8 streak + turn in. Adding sunken ships to the ritual count would actually encourage the Burning Blade to PvP.

@savvystraw37257 said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

@sweetsandman

Personally I think it’s a combination of both the BB being too hard to immobilize (mainly in situations where it’s only one crew vs the BB) and the finish line being too easy to cash out.

The idea presented allows for some counterplay to just running and cashing out but doesn’t require the crew of the BB to sink nearby ships.

IMO this is a decent solution.

In order to design a solution, you have to define the problem. In order to define the problem, you have to define the goal.

I can tell you that all that most of those run-n-drop crews have as a goal is to progress the commendations.

If I'm understanding Tamaas's proposal correctly, the "Step 1" would progress that commendation for the runner...and then turning in the blade would progress that for whoever turns it in.

So (assuming I'm understanding his idea correctly)...is the goal to make the crew of the BB fight for the rewards? Or...is the goal to make it so that the runners can progress their commendation and then give a consolation prize to the chasers?

If it's the latter, then yeah it's a great idea (again assuming I am understanding his idea correctly)...

If it's the former...then no...it's a terrible idea.

From what they said, It was a thing that shouldnt of been.
But way I see it, they might as well do the same to all "running"

Emissary, cant lower if another ship is near. Why not.

@savvystraw37257 said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

Yeah you’ve completely missed it.

Step four is the only step that determines who is the winner.

OK...so then all this is going to do is (like I said) turn the Hideout into a TDM session...where smaller or less skilled crews will fail...and then abandon the event or run for longer until the finish the comms via running anyways...and then it'll just be us sweats until we all get bored with it...sounds a whooooole lot like hourglass.

So, is the goal to make them fight while being the crew of the BB? Or is the goal for them to run around the map until the runner or chaser(s) get bored?

The solution does not stop running.

FIX THE RACE NOT THE FINISH LINE.

@savvystraw37257 you don't understand...it's not me...it's the players that will literally run to the Shores of Gold as a Reaper 5 to play the "who has more free time" game.

Making turn-in harder is just going to make those players adjust their running tactics with the most OP ship in the game accordingly.

I love the idea of ambushing...but the BB being harder to cash in is not going to somehow make those runners less aware of the potential that their ONLY turn-in spot is being camped... especially if they've been attacked anytime throughout their leveling up process.

@savvystraw37257 said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

@sweetsandman

Hence the other side of my suggestion which was to make the BB less difficult to immobilize.

The BB doesn’t need three reinforced masts.

And the capstan can scale to the size of the crew.

Both of those suggestions are fantastic and play into my notion of fixing the race

The finish line is fine as is...

@savvystraw37257 said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

I think carrying the sword to Flameheart is a more exciting ending personally. To each their own.

I agree those theatrics and drama would be cool. Make the "vote down" (Step 1) be on the ship. That unlocks the sword and then you turn that in.

I'm just saying, making the finish line harder - even marginally - will just cause players to run more, or participate less. It just will. This is the same playerbase that runs to the Shores of Gold as a R5, loss farms hourglass, runs in hourglass, and leaves floating bits of the SoSS floating in the water because all they care about is the commendation completions.

Don't underestimate the PvE averse. Runners gonna run...even if they're on an unstoppable man-of-war 🤣

The video didnt just state that it was just frustration of players, but that being able to just run and turn in with it was per their own words, "clearly not an intended scenario". Which shows that rare them selves did not want players doing this to begin with.

@sweetsandman said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

FIX THE RACE NOT THE FINISH LINE.

100%. This pretty much sums up my main point.

I do like Taaamas' idea to a degree (at least it's not a ship block) and the idea of turning in the actual sword rather than voting is appealing, but I rather seem them address the event prior to the turn-in, and the reasons why players rather run to turn-in instead of fighting.

I think the main reasons folks run to Reaper's Hideout are; the commendation requirements (as pointed out by abjectarity), how easy it is to run, how vulnerable you can feel when all the skellies are gone, and a lack of any real incentive to fight (often nothing to gain).

Adding Rotten Rocko's suggestion about having to do at least one Ritual before they can turn-in should help ensure there is time for folks to contest in open waters.

@goldsmen said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

The video didnt just state that it was just frustration of players, but that being able to just run and turn in with it was per their own words, "clearly not an intended scenario". Which shows that rare them selves did not want players doing this to begin with.

Honestly, it just sounded like they were listening to their Partners whine too much. A lot of whom like to server hop rather than engage in organic play. We should not be catering to players who do this. (I say this as a Mod of a couple of Partners and I would happily say it to them personally)

@goldsmen said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

The video didnt just state that it was just frustration of players, but that being able to just run and turn in with it was per their own words, "clearly not an intended scenario". Which shows that rare them selves did not want players doing this to begin with.

Which also shows that Rare 1). Probably doesn't listen to Insiders...and 2). Doesn't know their playerbase at all

Literally the most predictable scenario imaginable and it's coming as a surprise to the devs 🤣🤣🤣

@valor-omega a dit dans Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change :

I just feel like it's an odd complaint. Literally every other high-stakes treasure (Athenas, Chests of Fortune, Siren's Skull, etc) all have similar scenarios - crew runs with the treasure to turn in.

The only difference with the Burning Blade is that it's a single turn-in, for stacked loot, which I can see some frustration with runners, but even then.

Yes, it's a PvP-centric world event, but people are treating it as if it should be handled like hourglass, yet they do not wish to have actual hourglass rep/allegiance awarded...

Except that.... a makeshift chest is worth 50k (by being emissary 5).
A BB with 8 rituals is worth 500k.
There's definitely a difference.

What's more, I'm happy with this change, which has been much requested. Having the BB and running away because you're afraid of PvP is just a real shame.

@zeyrniyx said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

What's more, I'm happy with this change, which has been much requested. Having the BB and running away because you're afraid of PvP is just a real shame.

As long as they change the balance leading up to the finish line, yeah we can be happy.

If all they do is change the finish line mechanics, that part of your statement that I've just bolded will 1000000% still happen.

Literally all they need to do is de-buff the masts (make them take one chainshot) , and make the mast raising speed and capstan scale to crew size. Then reassess from there.

@zeyrniyx said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

What's more, I'm happy with this change, which has been much requested.

The requested ship-block change has come from folks who haven't considered the knock-on effect of it. It would lead to more server hopping from sweats and camping the Reaper's Hideout, and eventually a dead event.

The issue isn't the turn-in, the issue is the balance prior to that.

Having the BB and running away because you're afraid of PvP is just a real shame.

Which is what my OP is trying to address, while also ensuring the event remains active and fun for all.

As @SweetSandMan put it:

FIX THE RACE NOT THE FINISH LINE.

@th3-tater said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

Gotta do what the streamers want!

I don't have the same anti-streamer sentiments that some do (as I've said, I'm a mod) but I do think Rare need to find a balance and not cater to content creators exclusively.

It just drives a wedge between normal players and streamers and increases resentment. It also makes regular players feel like they're only seen as NPCs and fodder for content creation. The game should be fun to play, not just watch.

If you watch streamers do this event, you do hear the cries of "they shouldn't be able to turn-in when another ship is nearby", but this is typically in the heat of the moment and just after a loss. You don't hear the same cries when they win a turn-in encounter. Taking a step back, I think they would realise how bad a request it is for the longevity of the event.

@zeyrniyx said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

@valor-omega a dit dans Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change :

I just feel like it's an odd complaint. Literally every other high-stakes treasure (Athenas, Chests of Fortune, Siren's Skull, etc) all have similar scenarios - crew runs with the treasure to turn in.

The only difference with the Burning Blade is that it's a single turn-in, for stacked loot, which I can see some frustration with runners, but even then.

Yes, it's a PvP-centric world event, but people are treating it as if it should be handled like hourglass, yet they do not wish to have actual hourglass rep/allegiance awarded...

Except that.... a makeshift chest is worth 50k (by being emissary 5).
A BB with 8 rituals is worth 500k.
There's definitely a difference.

What's more, I'm happy with this change, which has been much requested. Having the BB and running away because you're afraid of PvP is just a real shame.

It's not just the gold, if a crew who sails on the Burning Blade, spends a session sailing across the map doing the rituals and have some fights with other crews only to have it taken away by a server hopping group of more sweaty players camping on the hideout to keep them form turning in - they might not be doing that for a while after.
Making the finish harder also for crews that have their BB session as intended (doing rituals and fighting other crews) will be worse for the event than having some crews that just flee to the hideout as soon as they see another ship that might be going for them.

@sweetsandman a dit dans Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change :

@zeyrniyx said in Concerns Over A Burning Blade Turn-In Change:

What's more, I'm happy with this change, which has been much requested. Having the BB and running away because you're afraid of PvP is just a real shame.

As long as they change the balance leading up to the finish line, yeah we can be happy.

If all they do is change the finish line mechanics, that part of your statement that I've just bolded will 1000000% still happen.

Literally all they need to do is de-buff the masts (make them take one chainshot) , and make the mast raising speed and capstan scale to crew size. Then reassess from there.

But we know SoT players, especially the Reapers... LoL! They're called Reapers Runners for a reason.
You can use all the tricks you want, but in reality, these players will continue to run away because they don't understand the aim of the game and they're afraid of losing....
But I'm sorry, as soon as you sail under the Reaper flag and run away from the fight, I throw up. It's shameful really. The other emissaries I can understand, but Reaper? NEVER! Whatever you do.