How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL

  • Hourglass is at a bad state right now for most casual players and in this thread I’ll list out the main problems I see with it whilst trying not to blur the lines too much in between, and propose potential solutions I’d imagine most players would agree on and would love if rare genuinely considered some of this feedback instead of leaving the mode dry and unfair.

    1) The Leveling.

    Problem: As it stands, hourglass (as long as you’re consistent with it) is the best way to level up both of the “top” factions (Reaper's and Athena's), and makes insane money when holding streaks.
    On the other hand, if you’re not able to hold streaks and just want to get access to the reaper lair or want to have a ghost curse, it is a painfully slow process to grind that usually ends in a streak loss or just a loss in general which sets you back a ton and gives you almost nowhere in terms of leveling.

    Solution: In terms of the “slow” process I’ll address actual queue times and match times with potential solutions in the point number 3 but to focus on the rewards and leveling:
    I believe the reputation gain for the Reaper's Bones and Athena’s fortune should be greatly reduced to encourage you to gain your distinctions for those companies by playing the non-pvp mode and actually sailing around doing steals and voyages and forts on the high seas like it’s intended, and for the actual hourglass allegiance for leveling up Servants of the flame and Guardians of Fortune, that should be increased and should be based on more than just a win, more on that in the next point.

    2) Gameplay and Allegiance gain.

    Problem: the gameplay as of right now includes a LOT of running and sailing and matches can take an hour or even more if the enemy team chooses to waste your time, only for you to sink after your time's been wasted and gain pretty much no allegiance for all that time spent.

    Solution: make it so MORE factors go into what gives you allegiance,
    "How many shots did you land on the boat?"
    "How many times have you sent the other crew to the ferry?"
    Make it so your performance actually counts for something as opposed to you playing well and sinking in the end and getting absolutely nothing for it, and on top of that you can have a sort-of win multiplier that rewards you even more because you won, so nobody loses in the end and your 40 minute fight doesn’t feel like a waste of time in the end just because you sunk.
    And as for the running: so many people already suggested this, which is to make it so the circle shrinks throughout the match, so by the time it hits the 15-20 minute mark you can’t really run and matches won’t exceed that time-frame.

    3) The queue times and rewards.

    Problem: As of currently, the queue times are pretty bad in a lot of cases, because more casual players and newer players don't really have an incentive to hop into the PVP mode.

    Solution: I have two solutions that work hand-in-hand, first one being to give those players (whether skilled, or not) an incentive to actually play the mode, because as of right now the grind is long and there are not enough rewards between levels especially if you're going for the allegiance 1000 curse, so adding more rewards, curse customizations, etc.. will make players WANT to run more hourglass instead of giving up before they're even near the next reward.
    And secondly: Make it more accessible! by putting it in the main menu of sea of thieves as an option along with the Maiden Voyage and the normal High Seas you make it faster and more accessible than ever for everyone to queue in without having to join a lobby and figure out how the hourglass on the table work and have to sail far enough to dive, and this perfectly ties in with point number 4.

    4) Supplies and fairness.

    Problem: Someone who's been holding their streak for a while has infinitely more supplies than someone who hasn't. Curseballs are also a huge cheat code in equal-skill matches.
    also, spawning-in on a normal high seas lobby isn't fair to either side as you can spawn in a fleet event, near a sea fort, get third-partied, and the list goes on and on and on...

    Solution: By making the queue reachable from the main menu, this should also guarantee crews to spawn with a fair and equal amount of supplies. whether that be a default preset, or a "supply shop" before queuing and here's my concept for it:
    The Supply Shop: Every crew joining into hourglass likes their resources differently than others, so to maintain both fairness and the ability to customize your ship's loadout, everyone can be assigned an equal amount of "credits" they can spend on food, cannonballs, storage crates, wood crates, meat, etc... but they get to CHOOSE what they want to buy, they can sacrifice some food for more cannon balls for example, or they can do with the default amount of cannon balls to get more firebombs, and so on. It gives players a sense of freedom in their supplies whilst also still being on an equal playing field to other crews queuing in.
    And as for the high seas issue, just make it like arena, make it so that hourglass takes place in it's own servers with 2 equal sides when it comes to rocks and obstacles, instead of having an advantage over the other by just spawning in a better spot like it is right now.

    In conclusion:
    Hourglass should be a custom game-mode in the main menu away from the high seas to maintain maximum fairness and to encourage more players to try it out and greatly reduce queue times, supplies should be as close to equal as possible through either a balanced supply shop of some sort or to just give players an equal preset, put less focus on actual Athena and Reaper leveling and way more attention to Servants and Guardians allegiance with more rewards sprinkled throughout levels to keep players engaged and working towards their next milestone, make the bounds/circle close in over time to prevent running and to keep matches quick and enjoyable, and reward players based on their general performance rather than if they just win or lose with winners getting the benefit of a higher allegiance gain and a streak to try and keep which in turn gives them even more allegiance.

    I believe the things I've addressed can all seamlessly work together to make hourglass overall a more enjoyable experience for everyone on the seas, if you agree with it, leave an upvote and comment to keep this Thread alive and to hopefully get rare's attention, and if you disagree with some of the things I suggested then let's discuss your concerns and POV more.

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  • Levelling is fine, queue times are what they are, supplies are what you bring, and the game mode lives within adventure for a reason.

  • @savvystraw37257 your caps lock is broken.

    This is an open forum and criticism is absolutely allowed.

    I’ll be staying thanks.

  • @savvystraw37257 People are allowed to critique ideas. I'm sorry you're too thin-skinned to accept this basic concept.

  • How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyes

    As a casual. Use hourglass as it meant to be used, not as a grind or competition. But as an instant pvp tool. Do I want to fight someone who also wants to fight? Yup, use hourglass.

    The gold, rewards are just a small bonus that don’t mean much once you get them.

    Supplies I bring is what I do. Prepare for battle, and if I sink, it’s on me.

  • Hourglass only needs 3 things really.

    1. A time limit, after which the ships re-dive and both get some XP.
    2. The ability to get more than the default loss XP (but less than winning XP) for participating in a match and not winning. Winners should not get bonus, only losers can close the gap based on performance.
    3. Move away from streaks (kind of handled by changing XP gain, but they should just get rid of the comms for 10 wins).
  • I actually like the fact that Hourglass takes place within Adventure. I think it's totally reasonable for players who are diving to be able to gain supplies by spending their Hourglass value, not Gold.

    Hourglass should ideally reward all participants (winners a bit more) with something to give them a more unique experience on the High Seas, whether it be access to specific PvP loot, or something to get them started on a high risk activity easily (like a FoF).

    Not a fan of just cosmetic rewards.

  • @savvystraw37257 Hey, instead of attacking people directly, maybe comment on the origional idea.

  • @fundaone3850 I don't think the proposed solutions would fix the underlying issues with hourglass.

    More rewards and stuff would be nice but I'm not sure it brings casual players back into it. I think the trick is to make regular actions more rewarding and to reduce the feast or famine that hourglass can become.

    This idea is essentially just Arena...

  • @savvystraw37257 said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    @tesiccl

    If this forum was actually moderated by people who value feedback and suggestions from real players your access would be permanently revoked for consistently responding to new topics with an attitude of player feedback is worthless and Rare cannot possibly improve upon anything.

    I can screenshot your last 100 replies and show a resounding negative tone. Why are you still permitted here? You don’t offer any real substance in your replies other than “this idea bad, Rare is all knowing”.

    Why don’t you actually play the game for once rather than just staying permanently logged in to the forum and getting the first reply for every new topic always criticizing it?

    If this forum was actually moderated by people who value feedback and suggestions

    They do. Hence this forum.

    from real players

    Translation: From people I approve of

    your access would be permanently revoked

    Translation: You should be banned because I don't agree with you.

    I can screenshot your last 100 replies and show a resounding negative tone.

    People can disagree with ideas. They don't have to stay silent if they think an idea is bad. Cope.

    Why are you still permitted here?

    Because the forums don't follow your rules.

    You don’t offer any real substance in your replies other than “this idea bad, Rare is all knowing”.

    Translation: You don't offer anything if I don't like what you say.

    Why don’t you actually play the game for once rather than just staying permanently logged in to the forum and getting the first reply for every new topic always criticizing it?

    Why don't you let people critique ideas without flying off the handle as if they just insulted your entire family?

  • This is the issue with the world today, if you disagree with someone, they/you get banned. No one hear’s each other’s opinions anymore, we just lock ourselves away with people who agree with us. And then when we hear an alternative opinion, WE FREAK OUT!!! That’s one of the reasons (besides giving feedback) I use this forum,
    Because it is healthy to hear an alternative perspective every now and then.

  • @craftergames706 I agree.
    Heck, I have a number of friends who have 0 qualms with verbally slapping me in the face if I'm being a fool. And the reverse is true.
    We also disagree on a number of topics.

    But we all agree on one major thing: It's important to surround oneself with people of varying opinions, in order to be a better person.
    People who say 'I only hang out with people who agree with me' are really saying 'I like having an echo chamber instead of learning if I'm wrong.

  • @Guildar9194

    I completely agree

    That being said, who would win in a fight: Captain America OR the Master chief.

    (No weapons, just big eating utensils )

  • @craftergames706 said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    @Guildar9194 I completely agree

    That being said, who would win in a fight: Captain America OR the Master chief.

    (No weapons, just spoons)

    I mean, Chief has his power armor, but Captain America has his super strength and actual hand-to-hand combat skills.
    MC weighs 1,000lbs with the armor, but CA can lift up to 1,200lbs...

    I'm going with Captain America. :D

  • [Removed because of previous Mod remove]

  • @SavvyStraw37257 Please avoid engaging in personal arguments and derailing the topic of the thread. It is fine to debate the content of the post, and the viewpoints therein, but disrespecting any of your fellow pirates personally is against the pirate code, and our forum rules.

  • @look-behind-you I just checked back on my post and all of @SavvyStraw37257 's comments have been deleted? What did he say? I'm genuinely curious

  • @fundaone3850 there’s a reason it’s deleted.

  • @d3adst1ck
    I think it would be better not exactly to have a time limit where both simply re-dive, but after a while, the zone should shrink, like in a battle royale, to prevent the person from running away forever, so they would have to face the enemy.

  • Hg needs for sure a timer no one enjoys a 40minute long battle it can happen when both player have the similar skill level,specially in solo slooping or sloop at all its so easy to tank this ship , if the timer ends the crew with more cannonballhits wins simple.idk if it would be fun having a shrinking circle, for my taste the circle is to huge

  • @capitaoronco said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    @d3adst1ck
    I think it would be better not exactly to have a time limit where both simply re-dive, but after a while, the zone should shrink, like in a battle royale, to prevent the person from running away forever, so they would have to face the enemy.

    The difference is that a shrinking zone still promotes running until the zone gets small enough that you can force the other ship into getting killed by being out of zone and you get win XP. The problem of running still exists because they have a chance to win.

    If both teams get loser XP and re-dive at the end, then there is no incentive to wait out the timer because you can't improve your score by doing it.

  • @da-german420 said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    Hg needs for sure a timer no one enjoys a 40minute long battle it can happen when both player have the similar skill level,specially in solo slooping or sloop at all its so easy to tank this ship , if the timer ends the crew with more cannonballhits wins simple.idk if it would be fun having a shrinking circle, for my taste the circle is to huge

    That's a pretty simple metric that is wrong in a lot of cases, because not all cannonball hits are equal. If you hit a bunch of upper decks but they barely take on any water, and they hit some good lowers that force you to peel away and repair, who has done better?

    If they are going to force the match to end after a set period of time, the fairest thing to do is award a tie with room to add extra XP based on performance to account for ships that have been battling the entire time but were unable to sink each other.

  • Forget timers and a shrinking circle …

    Do this.

    Make it so during an hourglass battle hull damage cannot be repaired until one of the two ships has sunk. Mast, wheel and capstan damage can always be repaired.

    Now there is no reason to turn out and reset because there is no resetting hull damage until the battle is over.

    Less work than changing the size of the existing battlegrounds, less work than figuring out what to do after a timer runs out as far as who gets what and it’s guaranteed to result in shorter battles.

    Or they could just try out another one of my suggestions where the more holes your ship has the slower it’s top speed becomes and the more water you have in your hull the slower your ship accelerates from a stop. You know making it so damaging a ship’s hull actually affects its speed and acceleration and thus making it harder to turn out and reset if you have a ton of hull damage.

    I’ve also suggested that a mast that is snapped with the sails below halfway down cannot be immediately caught as it falls due to the weight of the mast plus the wind in the sails until it has fallen down fully. This will give crews more time to capitalize on de-masts assuming they snapped the masts when the ship had its sails lowered.

  • Make it so during an hourglass battle hull damage cannot be repaired until one of the two ships has sunk. Mast, wheel and capstan damage can always be repaired.
    Now there is no reason to turn out and reset because there is no resetting hull damage until the battle is over.

    This sounds awful. So both sides put cannons into each other and then have to stop because they’re constantly bucketing until one can’t do it anymore or gets bored? That sounds like the worst match setup possible.

  • Smaller circle all around would be better. I think there is flatly just too much room given for the encounters.

    I think the big thing for me is the time:reward ratio feeling somewhat off. I don't mind long fights (they can be the most fun) but not having your reward for those fights reflect the time invested starts to feel exhausting. I don't know the perfect answer to that, but I have thought that adding in progression metrics to the mode (either natively or through daily, weekly, monthly deeds) would help offset things. These progression stats would not need to be as articulate as those proposed to help calculate the winner in a draw (if a timer is involved). They could be broader, because they are just calculating bonus values. It's obviously easier said than done but I imagine it would feel more rewarding.

    I don't think a timer would help, as it becomes exceedingly difficult to determine who is the victor in a draw. Progression stats in this case become much harder to calculate (as other folks have mentioned) because they have to be more exact to ensure that the correct winner is selected.

  • @i-marmot-i said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    Smaller circle all around would be better. I think there is flatly just too much room given for the encounters.

    I think the big thing for me is the time:reward ratio feeling somewhat off. I don't mind long fights (they can be the most fun) but not having your reward for those fights reflect the time invested starts to feel exhausting. I don't know the perfect answer to that, but I have thought that adding in progression metrics to the mode (either natively or through daily, weekly, monthly deeds) would help offset things. These progression stats would not need to be as articulate as those proposed to help calculate the winner in a draw (if a timer is involved). They could be broader, because they are just calculating bonus values. It's obviously easier said than done but I imagine it would feel more rewarding.

    I don't think a timer would help, as it becomes exceedingly difficult to determine who is the victor in a draw. Progression stats in this case become much harder to calculate (as other folks have mentioned) because they have to be more exact to ensure that the correct winner is selected.

    If you run out of time, there is no winner. It's a tie.

    Making up numbers here but if a win is worth 100 and a loss is worth 25. Your activity during the battle could gain you up to 50 extra points (P); this is to deincentivize loss farming because it will now be more beneficial to at least try rather than sink as fast as possible. It also keeps winning as the best XP without creating the 'ship farming' problem that occurred in Arena when every cannonball hit was worth points.

    So if you win, you get 100 but if you lose and maxed out on participation (boards, cannon hits, repairs, etc...) you get 75. If the timer runs out and it's a draw, both players could get (25 + P). Long matches are now more rewarding even if you don't end up winning. You also don't need to worry about correctly calculating a winner.

  • @d3adst1ck said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    Making up numbers here but if a win is worth 100 and a loss is worth 25. Your activity during the battle could gain you up to 50 extra points (P); this is to deincentivize loss farming because it will now be more beneficial to at least try rather than sink as fast as possible. It also keeps winning as the best XP without creating the 'ship farming' problem that occurred in Arena when every cannonball hit was worth points.

    100%. And I agree that participation metrics should be capped to avoid farming situations.

    If you run out of time, there is no winner. It's a tie.

    So if you win, you get 100 but if you lose and maxed out on participation (boards, cannon hits, repairs, etc...) you get 75. If the timer runs out and it's a draw, both players could get (25 + P). Long matches are now more rewarding even if you don't end up winning. You also don't need to worry about correctly calculating a winner.

    I am not necessarily opposed to a draw mechanic, but I'm curious about the conditions for it.
    Does a draw = both ships sink, lose streaks, lose flags, lose supplies?
    Or does draw = both ships retain streaks (with no gain from current fight), retain flags, retain supplies, and are sent to an outpost?

    I think if it is the former then that would be bad and make people resent the timer. But if it is the latter then that might change the nature of fights/lead to unintended consequences.

  • @i-marmot-i I don't think you'd want the game to sink ships if it came to a tie.

    Retaining the ship and current streak will change the nature of fights for sure, but it will prevent a lot of negatives that we get with the current system. Even under this system you could get stuck with a runner or constant resets, and if you have a streak going you don't want to lose it (which is a negative with the current system) but at least you'd only need to put up with it for 10-15 minutes then you could be returned to an outpost and match with someone else.

  • Here's my two cents of how Hourglass can significantly improve, without taking away/nerfing the hard work of everyone, currently.

    • More rewards to pad levels 200 onwards to 1000. This is a given - at bare minimum, a new reward every 100 levels. Everyone wants more to work for.

    • More sub-game modes that suit different PvP styles; King of the Hill, Capture the Flag, TDM, 2v2's, 3v3's, Ranked

    • Much like other PvP-centric games, daily challenges/milestones for repuation/allegiance, as well as first win of the day bonuses would be greatly appreciated, and incentivize more and newer players to actually try and maybe CARE about hourglass.

    Put simply, people like to not only have their time respected, but see actual meaningful progress. As it is now, the mode is very off-putting for basically anyone other than the veteran hourglass players. I really don't want to see it die off like Arena, either, but if there isn't meaningful change, that's where it's going.

  • @tesiccl said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    Make it so during an hourglass battle hull damage cannot be repaired until one of the two ships has sunk. Mast, wheel and capstan damage can always be repaired.
    Now there is no reason to turn out and reset because there is no resetting hull damage until the battle is over.

    This sounds awful. So both sides put cannons into each other and then have to stop because they’re constantly bucketing until one can’t do it anymore or gets bored? That sounds like the worst match setup possible.

    Once I kinda had it in mind the other way around, what if repairing hulls is possible, but buckets are unusable? That would make water levels permanent, so no progress into sinking the opponent is reset.
    However, I believe that also comes with its own set of problems as well.

  • @valor-omega said in How to make Hourglass a more enjoyable experience. From a casual player's eyesL:

    Here's my two cents of how Hourglass can significantly improve, without taking away/nerfing the hard work of everyone, currently.

    • More rewards to pad levels 200 onwards to 1000. This is a given - at bare minimum, a new reward every 100 levels. Everyone wants more to work for.

    • More sub-game modes that suit different PvP styles; King of the Hill, Capture the Flag, TDM, 2v2's, 3v3's, Ranked

    • Much like other PvP-centric games, daily challenges/milestones for repuation/allegiance, as well as first win of the day bonuses would be greatly appreciated, and incentivize more and newer players to actually try and maybe CARE about hourglass.

    Put simply, people like to not only have their time respected, but see actual meaningful progress. As it is now, the mode is very off-putting for basically anyone other than the veteran hourglass players. I really don't want to see it die off like Arena, either, but if there isn't meaningful change, that's where it's going.

    I wish there could be daily deeds specific for Hourglass that earns extra allegiance. First win of the day is great and there could be more:

    • Successfully land twenty cannonball hits on the enemy ship
    • Kill an enemy pirate once
    • Repair ten holes
    • Survive five minutes without getting killed
    • Bail water with you bucket three times
    • Land a chainshot on the enemy ship once
    • Land three scattershots on the enemy ship
    • Heal 100 points of health by eating food
    • Grab the pink flame of fate from the ferry of the damned

    Just some random ideas, I'm sure you guys can think of better ones.

  • @d3adst1ck If there was a timer there should be some system to see if the two are in battle, because let's say the timer would be 20 minutes; What if the two ships were fighting a fair battle for 20 minutes, then would they both lose? Now, if the zone shrink, you could wait for your opponent to stop running away and be forced to go to the middle of the map, and then you would sink him, but if there was a timer and your opponent kept running away, there would be nothing you could do. Both of you would lose that battle because you wouldn't be able to attack him.

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