Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.

You’ve chosen to buy and play a PvPvE game. There are elements of both PvP and PvE within, if you don’t like one side, then you’ve wasted your money and you should probably play something else. Safer Seas is a compromise and should never have existed but it was the loudness of those who were ignorant to what the game actually was about that caused its creation.

I hate how everyone pins pvp is just reaper bones. (Yes that what they are designed for)

Before they became a faction, it was any faction. Yet nobody blinked or complained if a OfS emissary sank them or Athena.
To this day, I still see more non emissary ships attacking ships than reaper emissary but everyday, it’s “reaper bones are toxic”. Even tho it’s technically there job

It silly.

Same with Safer Seas, (again I’m calling it Maiden Seas)
Players, mostly newbies. Complain about it all because they don’t understand it. They want it to be something just for them.
Already it is but isn’t. Dev have said why it was created, why they designed it. And yet, it’s never enough.

If a game like Grand Theft Auto

Can we all stop comparing games to one another? GTA is built on it. Pvp
SoT is built on pvpve, not one or the other is greater.

@tesiccl You didn't quite read the full post, did you..?
I don't want to get rid of PvPvE at all, I just want it to be more regulated and reward PvP less than it is now. This is still a PvE game too, it's hard to enjoy that part of the game when the PvP part is often ruining it.

There are elements of both PvP and PvE within, if you don’t like one side, then you’ve wasted your money and you should probably play something else.

So.. same goes for the other side; This is a PvPvE, for those only interested in PvP and ruining the PvE experience of others, they should probably just play a PvP only game. No? I don't see how it's considered fair to defend one side but a sin to defend the other. Why would one side be heavily rewarded, but the other only gets a simple "compromise"?

Seeing Rare had to cave in and compromised with Safer Seas, and from the fact people are still complaining, I think it's safe to say I'm speaking for the majority of players. Devs don't usually cave for a minority, a lot of people were complaining the core of the game got diluted with PvP trolls ruining the PvE aspects of the game. And those complaints increased massively after introducing rewards for sinking other crews.

Pretty sure the core of the game is to be a pirate, which is why we all bought the game. Like I mentioned; iirc, pirates killing other pirates for no reason is against the actual PotC pirate code this game was said to be originally inspired by. Makes no sense to call us ignorant, we know why we bought the game. At release we all played it like it was advertised.

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

There are some changes that could easily be implemented, as proven by what has already been implemented so far, to make Sea of Thieves playable for every type of player without the need of the current version of the Safer Seas. I'm hoping to start a discussion here to prove it.
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First, here is what we know;

• The introduction of the Reaper's Bones is what sparked the necessity of Safer Seas, for most players that asked for Safer Seas.

False -
a. people have been asking for PvE servers before emissaries were a thing.
b. people didn't ask for Safer Seas, they asked for PvE servers when they bought a PvPvE game

• The toxicity of the Reaper's Bones is what sparked the necessity of an opposing emissary dedicated to only fighting Reapers.

False. Toxicity (as Rare understands it, you might have a different "definition") is neither limited to nor defining of people who sail for Reaper's Bones emissary.

• Safer Seas is a full server, with all the capabilities of High Seas but with arbitrary limits hoping people would still play High Seas instead. Nonetheless, this proves private and dedicated servers are technically possible.

False. The limits are not arbitrary, go find a (closed) Safer Seas topic and see what the moderators give for an answer before the topic gets closed.

• People never hated PvPvE, not even Safer Seas players, we all love interacting with other crews. But we also all hate our efforts on voyages and forts to be completely nullified by some people who don't care about the actual game, but would rather ruin your day instead. In any other game this would be called "griefing", for some reason here it's called "intended gameplay".

False. I've been reading these forums for 6+ years now... there are people who hate (a) PvP, (b) having other crews on the same server, (c) other people on their crew.

Don't let the outcome of a few minutes fight or half an hour chase (or something in between) determine how you see the day. Forts and other world events are designed to be a focal point for more than one crew (if they are so inclined) either fighting ove rit or fighting against it. Who the latter thinks deserves the spoils of it, could be another matter 😁.

• We know the devs can implement things to change how much we earn from certain things, as shown in Safer Seas.
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Aye. You know what would have been easier and IMO better: give people sailing on the Safer Seas the same amount, but in a different currency. People could have millions and millions of wooden tokens.

Now, what can be done to improve this for everyone? Well, part of it has already been implemented;

• There is a friend and guild system, combine this with Safer Seas to allow communities to just have fun.

Oh, I would love for Rare to finally have a version of Custom servers ready for all and not just the partners. Has nothing to do with Safer Seas though.

PvP should never have been forced, most of us would love to agree to a battle for some of the loot on our ship.

Yeah, give me a few minutes,
... let my PvP sweat friend join before we start shooting and throwing stuff.
... let me change my inventory and items to something more useful
... oooh you got me with my pants down, let me remove any benefit you gained from that.
-- sigh --
PvP is part of the game. It's a PvPvE game - that doesn't meam you get to PvE from 1 - 2 and then some PvP from 2 to 3. It's both, the whole session.

It's funny we say we follow a pirate code, but then allow attacking other pirates with no warning whatsoever, which iirc is against the actual pirate code.

It's a game; read the CoC/Pirate Code whatever and see what Rare has to say about real world circumstances.

And I think I speak for every Safer Seas player that we'd love to invite other crews to hang out on our seas. This change alone would solve all toxicity complaints people still have. This would essentially change Safer Seas into more of a "dedicated server", which shouldn't be that hard to implement judging from how smoothly Safer Seas got implemented.

See above: Custom Servers.

• Make it so Reaper's Bones no longer gains extra rewards for attacking other non-PvP specific emissaries. Reward PvP emissaries heavily but only for fighting other PvP crews with either Guardians of Fortune or Servants of the Flame. This way, PvP is CHOICE that can be rewarded instead of being a punishment for everyone else on the server.

So, should they remove the bonus Emissaries get when they turn in ? Risk as normal should result in reward as normal IMO.
No-one said that non-reaper emissaries are non-PvP. When sailiong as a Gold Hoarder, I'm sure people love to come across another Gold Hoarder loaded with chests for them to sink or at least steal from .

• Change how emissaries work: Make it so you can no longer lower your emissary flag, and make it so you earn more for emissary work, but significantly less for anything else. This means people dedicate their session to that emissary, and are forced to sell the loot they got by not doing emissary work at a lower price. Since the threat of Reapers would be eliminated with the previously mentioned change, lowering the reward for non-emissary loot is a suitable replacement. We know this is possible, because they lowered the rewards in Safer Seas. They can also still allow PvP with specific "High Risk, High Reward" voyages for emissaries that pay extra if there are Reapers on the map.

Seems you want your style of play be rewarded and have others only have a malus.

• If a game like Grand Theft Auto has a feature to become "passive", or only allow friends and clan members in your vehicles, I don't see how that could not be implemented in a game like Sea of Thieves.

Because it's a different game ?

The passive feature would disable interaction with other ships completely, as if they weren't even there. And with friends and guilds they can very easily implement something that only allows friends, guild members and allianced guilds on your ship. PvP emissaries however, should not be allowed to become "passive" for obvious reasons. Combined with the second point, this completely removes any and all toxicity complaints people have about the Sea of Thieves.
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Never been cussed out, stolen or sunk by someone in an alliance ? (using your definition of toxic here not the one recognised by Rare).

We know the devs are capable of doing these things, as they've already partially proven so. I think fully implenting all of that (with the necessary tweaks of course) would make the game a lot more enjoyable for everyone while essentially removing the necessity of the current Safer Seas, allowing Safer Seas to evolve into a more community-based version of High Seas.

Would it really be community based or just you and your friends ?

What does everyone else think?

That you're beating a dead horse and your ideas are flawed.

@burnbacon Oh PvP was definitely a thing, but it was never as heavily rewarded as it is today. I remember at release there was the occasional aggressor, but mostly the seas were calm and friendly. Now it seems every time you load into High Seas someone will eventually try to prevent you from playing the PvE parts of the game, just because they can. I'm also not saying Reapers are the only PvP-ers out there now, but nobody can deny PvP spiked for a short while after their introduction which is what at the same time spiked the demand for a PvP-free service.

I also remember Rare focusing on cooperation through alliances rather than PvP, back then it was more fun and paid better to do things together with other crews rather than to sink them. Now it seems that role got reversed. The devs intentionally mentioned this in articles too around the release of the game; they designed this game to allow for everyone to create their own story and make new friendships along the way, because that's what the insider programme said the people wanted.

I'd bet good money that no matter how thoroughly thought out or well presented the arguments written here, no one in this thread is willing to be swayed from their initial position on the topic lol

I don’t want to get rid of it….. just extremely limited and on my terms, see pvp still exists.

If you watch videos of the game being made when the devs started getting in massive battles with each other their smiles were giant. I think that you would enjoy these massive battles with your friends on a “private” server.

Question though…. Why don’t you enjoy fighting others? You say toxicity, but in my experience most pirates aren’t running mic’s and if they are they are in a private party chat of some sort. Why this matters is….. if you cannot hear the other players and you do not KNOW their intent or attitude. You are PROJECTING that they are toxic. I will rob you blind and sink you in a heartbeat, but I’m wholesome about it. We don’t camp without actually sinking you, we don’t scream “gamer” words at you.

Because some people choose to be pirates in a pirate game they shouldn’t be punished. I do run into some very toxic crews, but interestingly enough it’s usually the ship that was running that we sank that is SCREAMING curse words and insults calling me every name in the book.

What I am getting at is if you go into the game thinking that you are fighting friends and not some evil entity you might have more fun. If you could lose to a ship of your friends and have a good time, why can’t you do the same in any other engagement. You control how you react to the situations in your life. Stop projecting negativity

When a ship turns in on you instead of “Here we go……😫😤🙄🙄🙄” try “Here WE GO!!! 😁😁😁” see how it changes things.

@derpingquinn

I think it's safe to say I'm speaking for the majority of players.

You speak for yourself alone, not others. Thank you.

@tesiccl

You speak for yourself alone, not others. Thank you.

Extrapolation suggests otherwise.

@derpingquinn

Extrapolation suggests otherwise.

One person’s inference ≠ the community’s overall stance.

:)

Pretty sure the core of the game is to be a pirate, which is why we all bought the game. Like I mentioned; iirc, pirates killing other pirates for no reason is against the actual PotC pirate code this game

https://www.seaofthieves.com/pirate-code
Where does it say anything about killing other pirate without reason? But now days, Sinking your ship for its resources is the only Reason. Maybe your ship is in my way/On an island and I dont trust you enough? Perhaps you have a single item on your ship I need.

Bottom line: The whole "Sunk for no reason" is a dead excuse as there is always a Reason to be sunk. Good or Bad, Im not toxic for it, Im a Pirate. Sorry you feel I should be nice to every ship just because they are new.
Even new PS players attack me just because "Its part of the game"

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

Now, what can be done to improve this for everyone?

Sigh ....

The problem is that many don't see an issue.
The risk of being attacked & sunk is what makes the game fun for many of us.

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

Pretty sure the core of the game is to be a pirate .....

Pirate. Definition;
A person who attacks and robs from ships at Sea.

Yes. I agree, which would explain why Rare decided to reward players for killing other boats, and taking their stuff.

Try playing Safer Seas or Insider solo.
How long could you do it before the lack of any meaningful risk bores you? I'm sure most people would lose interest in it quicker than you think. Without the risk associated with other crews, this game loses a lot, and I feel Rare knows this.

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

@burnbacon Oh PvP was definitely a thing, but it was never as heavily rewarded as it is today. I remember at release there was the occasional aggressor, but mostly the seas were calm and friendly. Now it seems every time you load into High Seas someone will eventually try to prevent you from playing the PvE parts of the game, just because they can. I'm also not saying Reapers are the only PvP-ers out there now, but nobody can deny PvP spiked for a short while after their introduction which is what at the same time spiked the demand for a PvP-free service.

I also remember Rare focusing on cooperation through alliances rather than PvP, back then it was more fun and paid better to do things together with other crews rather than to sink them. Now it seems that role got reversed. The devs intentionally mentioned this in articles too around the release of the game; they designed this game to allow for everyone to create their own story and make new friendships along the way, because that's what the insider programme said the people wanted.

Did you and I play the same game at launch? I'm a day 1 player. I remember fighting for 1-2 hours for a skull fort that only spawned every 3. they were worth 8-12k and emissaries weren't a thing.

Pvp was very much rewarded at launch.

You mention alliances, all we had were verbal promises, there weren't alliances at release either. It was always about crafting your story. the other crew mates and enemy pirates are just supporting characters.

@lem0n-curry said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

False -
a. people have been asking for PvE servers before emissaries were a thing.
b. people didn't ask for Safer Seas, they asked for PvE servers when they bought a PvPvE game

I didn't say the request for PvE started with Reapers, I said it became a necessity for those that did. Also, the amount of requests for a PvE massively increased around the time people got rewarded more for PvP instead of cooperation through alliances, which was the previously intended way of playing as mentioned by the devs in multiple published articles.

False. Toxicity (as Rare understands it, you might have a different "definition") is neither limited to nor defining of people who sail for Reaper's Bones emissary.

I didn't say Reapers are toxic, I only mentioned there exists a toxicity within it, which is indeed not defined by the emissary itself. When they got introduced, those that already were toxic now had a "reason" to be. Toxic players, under generalized PvPvE understanding, are those that intentionally hard focus other crews they know they can beat. Intentionally hunting down crews you just took down knowing you can do it again with ease. This is technically against the SoT Pirate Code Articles #2 and #6.

False. The limits are not arbitrary, go find a (closed) Safer Seas topic and see what the moderators give for an answer before the topic gets closed.

Fine, I'll give you that one, I might have exaggerated with the usage of the word arbitrary.

False. I've been reading these forums for 6+ years now... there are people who hate (a) PvP, (b) having other crews on the same server, (c) other people on their crew.

Yes, people always hated PvP. PvPvE is not strict PvP. If the PvP was optional, people would most likely accept it more. Also not quite sure how people are complaining about having other people on their crew when you can sail solo.

Don't let the outcome of a few minutes fight or half an hour chase (or something in between) determine how you see the day.

^Im just mentioning that one to at least thank you for trying to give a motivational pep-talk, we need more of that!

Oh, I would love for Rare to finally have a version of Custom servers ready for all and not just the partners. Has nothing to do with Safer Seas though.

True, I feel that. But Safer Seas kinda proves they can do it, doesn't it? Nobody would be complaining about either PvP or PvE if custom servers were a thing. It'll allow people to play the game however they'd like with whomever they'd like, and we now know it's technically possible so why is it not a thing yet? Is custom servers not the dream everyone has, PvP and PvE enjoyers alike?

Yeah, give me a few minutes,
... let my PvP sweat friend join before we start shooting and throwing stuff.
... let me change my inventory and items to something more useful
... oooh you got me with my pants down, let me remove any benefit you gained from that.
-- sigh --
PvP is part of the game. It's a PvPvE game - that doesn't meam you get to PvE from 1 - 2 and then some PvP from 2 to 3. It's both, the whole session.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind giving you some time to prepare if I got some too. I don't actually mind PvP, but last week my fish on my solo sloop got stolen by 4 guys on a galleon. It's thát kind of unnecessary PvP I don't like.. just let me fish in peace please.. ;-;

It's a game; read the CoC/Pirate Code whatever and see what Rare has to say about real world circumstances.

I did actually read Rare's original version of the Pirate Code based on the insider programme outcomes.. it promotes us all playing together as a community and respecting pirates (especially new ones) on their voyage ahead, which is why I wrote this whole rant.

So, should they remove the bonus Emissaries get when they turn in ? Risk as normal should result in reward as normal IMO.
No-one said that non-reaper emissaries are non-PvP. When sailiong as a Gold Hoarder, I'm sure people love to come across another Gold Hoarder loaded with chests for them to sink or at least steal from .

Seems you want your style of play be rewarded and have others only have a malus.

Aye, true, I guess.

Because it's a different game ?

Yes.. but that argument doesn't work when this game is inspired by Eve Online and PotC. If you're gonna make a game inspired by others, with feedback from the community as your main drive, at least look at what other games did right and implement something similar if the community asks after it. It only makes sense, right?

Never been cussed out, stolen or sunk by someone in an alliance ? (using your definition of toxic here not the one recognised by Rare).

Aye, but that version of toxicity isn't defined by SoT. It's common in every online game, especially those with voice chat. So I just didn't mention it as a SoT specific problem. I also really don't get why people have to result to slurs.. does it really feel better to call someone names..?

Would it really be community based or just you and your friends ?

What is a community if it isn't you and a whole bunch of friends? [definition of 'friend' may vary per community, I do not claim everyone should be besties just for the record]

That you're beating a dead horse and your ideas are flawed.

At least you're honest about it and took the time to write all that out, so thanks for the interaction.

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Also how did you do all that mentioning so fast, this took me like half an hour trying to find the bits to cut out in all this mess.

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

( ... ) It's funny we say we follow a pirate code, but then allow attacking other pirates with no warning whatsoever, which iirc is against the actual pirate code. ( ... )

You might have remembered fasley ... just read some pirate code from Bartholomew Roberts, John Phillips, Edward Low and George Lowther and others on a wiki-page.
None of them mention attacking or not attacking other pirates.

However, as gambling is not allowed in most we'll have to get rid of our dice; female players (or female avaters) would no longer allowed on the ships, no shooting of a gun below deck, harsh punishments for when you engage in PvP without ammunition, no grog after eight and you better not run away from a skeleton Lord.

Let's not introduce real world rules from centuries ago in a game.

@burnbacon Oh article #6 directly mentions you should be nice to new players. So that last bit in your reply makes no sense.

Also, technically #2 and #3 mention you shouldn't just pointlessly attack others. This code was set up through input of the original insider programme, this is what the devs claimed players wanted.

@lem0n-curry

I do mean the Pirates of the Caribbean Pirata Codex. This game is inspired by PotC, the devs said that themselves in development.

@captain-coel Yes..?

Do you remember why they introduced "the Arena" a year after release? It was to give people with PvP needs an extra outlet so they'd hopefully leave the PvE players alone a bit more. Pretty sure they never intended some people to just full on nuke innocent players whenever they could, even with the introduction of the Reaper's Bones.

You mention alliances, all we had were verbal promises, there weren't alliances at release either.

Player alliances were introduced 3 months after the official release, with their announcement shortly after release.. they pretty much have been there from the start..

@derpingquinn
Sorry to burst your bubble but what you wrote is a completely biased opinion of someone who doesn't like PvP in a game that heavily involves PvP. I understand it isn't for everyone but that's why Safer Seas exist. What you are proposing is a completely different game...

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

@lem0n-curry said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

False -
a. people have been asking for PvE servers before emissaries were a thing.
b. people didn't ask for Safer Seas, they asked for PvE servers when they bought a PvPvE game

I didn't say the request for PvE started with Reapers, I said it became a necessity for those that did. Also, the amount of requests for a PvE massively increased around the time people got rewarded more for PvP instead of cooperation through alliances, which was the previously intended way of playing as mentioned by the devs in multiple published articles.

Loads of PvE requests from the start, it may be slightly less because mods let those posts run for pages and pages worth instead of closing them within a short period of time.
I doubt any of us wants to mark the numbers over 6+ years worth of posts, nevermind the loss of posts that have been removed when people didn't get the feedback they wanted. Also take into account the number of posters then and now. As we don't have those numbers it would be a task without meaning.

False. Toxicity (as Rare understands it, you might have a different "definition") is neither limited to nor defining of people who sail for Reaper's Bones emissary.

I didn't say Reapers are toxic, I only mentioned there exists a toxicity within it, which is indeed not defined by the emissary itself. When they got introduced, those that already were toxic now had a "reason" to be. Toxic players, under generalized PvPvE understanding, are those that intentionally hard focus other crews they know they can beat. Intentionally hunting down crews you just took down knowing you can do it again with ease. This is technically against the SoT Pirate Code Articles #2 and #6.

For the latter (continuing to look for and fight a defeated crew again and again), yes. The rest: Nope. How would a crew know how good the others are in a fight ?
Even crews that anchor with their vessel pointed to the shore might be more proficient in PvP. They might even do it on purpose 😁, lots of PvP-centric people who deliberatly sail with default sails as well.

False. The limits are not arbitrary, go find a (closed) Safer Seas topic and see what the moderators give for an answer before the topic gets closed.

Fine, I'll give you that one, I might have exaggerated with the usage of the word arbitrary.

False. I've been reading these forums for 6+ years now... there are people who hate (a) PvP, (b) having other crews on the same server, (c) other people on their crew.

Yes, people always hated PvP. PvPvE is not strict PvP. If the PvP was optional, people would most likely accept it more.

But then it would be a PvP/PvE game - just like old fashioned Guild Wars, PvE doing all the fun stuff and enter an arena for some PvP. This is PvPvE - there is PvE and a chance to find yourself in PvP.

Also not quite sure how people are complaining about having other people on their crew when you can sail solo.

People complain loads when they want to have PvE for solo players made easier, or only have solo sloop servers because they don't want to fight bigger crews &c, and others suggest "get a crew". I'd put them under "hate to have people in same crew" category.

Don't let the outcome of a few minutes fight or half an hour chase (or something in between) determine how you see the day.

^Im just mentioning that one to at least thank you for trying to give a motivational pep-talk, we need more of that!

People complain loads about having a multiple hour session (where I'd suspect they have had fun) ruined because they got sunk. There are several things a crew can mitigate that (turning in more often, focus on the things you have accomplished, remember the fun you had before they showed up, lessons you have learned during the fight so a next one might go better).

Oh, I would love for Rare to finally have a version of Custom servers ready for all and not just the partners. Has nothing to do with Safer Seas though.

True, I feel that. But Safer Seas kinda proves they can do it, doesn't it? Nobody would be complaining about either PvP or PvE if custom servers were a thing. It'll allow people to play the game however they'd like with whomever they'd like, and we now know it's technically possible so why is it not a thing yet? Is custom servers not the dream everyone has, PvP and PvE enjoyers alike?

But Safer Seas is different. Custom servers would have several crews but it would be hard to implement rules about behaviour between crews (or even within crews).
If you only have people join those servers that you know for sure adhere to the rules set out, it won't be a problem. Imagine someone outside your "perfectly trustworthy circle" (or the friend who always is "that friend") join a custom server (because they seem friendly) and then they behave in a way that breaks "the rules" you set out or are understood by everyone else to be self-evident.
This goes beyond coding "no harming other crews or other ships" (problematic as that would be). Having a race with 6 galleons would be fun, until one crew breaks the rules and have kegs blow up in front of another ship, spend half an hour bucketing water from the barrel into the hold &c).

Yeah, give me a few minutes,
... let my PvP sweat friend join before we start shooting and throwing stuff.
... let me change my inventory and items to something more useful
... oooh you got me with my pants down, let me remove any benefit you gained from that.
-- sigh --
PvP is part of the game. It's a PvPvE game - that doesn't meam you get to PvE from 1 - 2 and then some PvP from 2 to 3. It's both, the whole session.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind giving you some time to prepare if I got some too. I don't actually mind PvP, but last week my fish on my solo sloop got stolen by 4 guys on a galleon. It's thát kind of unnecessary PvP I don't like.. just let me fish in peace please.. ;-;

I'm not a fisherman and neither am I a fisherman's friend 😉 but I do like turning in fish; got my commendations for Hunter's Call from getting them from (mostly) shipwrecks and ( occasionaly) other ships and the occasional fishing voyage / session to help crewmates or get a figurehead (I never use).
It has gold value - perfectly valid reason for stealing your ship (or putting them in a storage crate and swim away with that).

It's a game; read the CoC/Pirate Code whatever and see what Rare has to say about real world circumstances.

I did actually read Rare's original version of the Pirate Code based on the insider programme outcomes.. it promotes us all playing together as a community and respecting pirates (especially new ones) on their voyage ahead, which is why I wrote this whole rant.

Respecting doesn't equal not fighting them.
There is no actual way to inform people they are encountering a new(ish) crew, also there is nowhere put down what defines a new pirate.
IMHO that rule is more put in for how you should treat people that may join youir crew that don't know the ins-and-outs of every feature of the game. Instead of brigging them until they leave because "they're useless": let them do their thing in a way they like, advise them, inform them &c. Obviously when crew's way of playing don't matc, they should part ways.

It could also reflect how you should behave when you encounter a new crew, but as we dont disrespect other crews in general, we think we're doing fine. If we find out they are new we might give tips (e.g. don't use the reaper's mark if you don't want to engage other crews) or tell them we won't take their TT item so they can continue &c. Plus other tips as pull up the anchor &c.

So, should they remove the bonus Emissaries get when they turn in ? Risk as normal should result in reward as normal IMO.
No-one said that non-reaper emissaries are non-PvP. When sailiong as a Gold Hoarder, I'm sure people love to come across another Gold Hoarder loaded with chests for them to sink or at least steal from .

Seems you want your style of play be rewarded and have others only have a malus.

Aye, true, I guess.

Because it's a different game ?

Yes.. but that argument doesn't work when this game is inspired by Eve Online and PotC. If you're gonna make a game inspired by others, with feedback from the community as your main drive, at least look at what other games did right and implement something similar if the community asks after it. It only makes sense, right?

But part of the community don't want some things other parts want. They cannot implement everything someone or a group asks for - that would be maddness.
It's up to Rare to implement requested features, they will honor requests they think is good for the game. Time and time again they have said that PvE servers is not what they think the game should be.

Never been cussed out, stolen or sunk by someone in an alliance ? (using your definition of toxic here not the one recognised by Rare).

Aye, but that version of toxicity isn't defined by SoT.

As I said "recognised", there are people who consider getting sunk to be toxic.

You said only allow guild, friends and alliance guilds (not a thing, thought you were talking about an alliance as it currently is implemented); it's not always great to have alliance members on board is what I was alluding to.

It's common in every online game, especially those with voice chat. So I just didn't mention it as a SoT specific problem. I also really don't get why people have to result to slurs.. does it really feel better to call someone names..?

No argument here.

Would it really be community based or just you and your friends ?

What is a community if it isn't you and a whole bunch of friends? [definition of 'friend' may vary per community, I do not claim everyone should be besties just for the record]

I thought you used "community" as the people who play SoT. It's how Rare speaks about their players.

That you're beating a dead horse and your ideas are flawed.

At least you're honest about it and took the time to write all that out, so thanks for the interaction.

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Also how did you do all that mentioning so fast, this took me like half an hour trying to find the bits to cut out in all this mess.

Quote the whole post, put some line breaks at the position I want to react and put in my response between two quoted bits. Sometimes adding a "greater than" sign if bits of your post are not appearing as being quoted.

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

@lem0n-curry

I do mean the Pirates of the Caribbean Pirata Codex. This game is inspired by PotC, the devs said that themselves in development.

Is there a text somewhere other than bits and pieces ?

Is "it's more guidelines" still a valid excuse to ignore anything that doesn't suit a Captain ?

It's certainly inspired by PotC, doesn't mean that it includes some choice references from the Codex from the game/movie/franchise, otherwise
a) those would be mentioned in the SoT Pirate Code (rephrashed for Copyright obviously)
b) there would be no posibility for fighting other crews and/or there would be consequences for doing so.
c) there wouldn't be rules about "everyone in a crew is equal" while the PotC codex mentions special rights for certain pirates.

@lem0n-curry said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

@derpingquinn said in Discussion on the implementation of Safer Seas and the PvP specific factions in High Seas.:

@lem0n-curry

I do mean the Pirates of the Caribbean Pirata Codex. This game is inspired by PotC, the devs said that themselves in development.

Is there a text somewhere other than bits and pieces ?

Is "it's more guidelines" still a valid excuse to ignore anything that doesn't suit a Captain ?

It's certainly inspired by PotC, doesn't mean that it includes some choice references from the Codex from the game/movie/franchise, otherwise
a) those would be mentioned in the SoT Pirate Code (rephrashed for Copyright obviously)
b) there would be no posibility for fighting other crews and/or there would be consequences for doing so.
c) there wouldn't be rules about "everyone in a crew is equal" while the PotC codex mentions special rights for certain pirates.

Also

a passage which mentioned mythic weapons, like the Trident of Poseidon, and strictly forbid pirates possessing such weapons, because they were too powerful and too dangerous

No more tridents, cursed balls &c ....

The introduction of the Reaper's Bones is what sparked the necessity of Safer Seas, for most players that asked for Safer Seas.

No, its the tiny % of pirates who want to play a single player pirate game that is equal to SoT. Just no other players
But Safer Seas was really created because many dont understand the game (such as yourself) and many have families and young ones who play with mama and papa, so together they can, in a solo adventure world.

The toxicity of the Reaper's Bones is what sparked the necessity of an opposing emissary dedicated to only fighting Reape

What prey tell makes RB so Toxic? What are they doing so differently that a GH ship can't do as well? Sink ships? Steal Loot? Attack player ships because they may or may not have something of value?

Safer Seas is a full server, with all the capabilities of High Seas but with arbitrary limits hoping people would still play High Seas instead. Nonetheless, this proves private and dedicated servers are technically possible.

Possible sure, but that split the game apart. Dedicated/Private servers have been talked about. Players having full control over and such but the Gold and rewards will be turned off. You can have an island mass spawn skeletons holding kegs at your command. D & P servers will by rumor, paid for services and mainly made for created content.

But we also all hate our efforts on voyages and forts to be completely nullified by some people who don't care about the actual game

What players are these? Who are you even talking about and do they even exist? Pirates being pirates. Your so called hard work or efforts are granted by Seasons & achievements, other stuff unlocked once you actually turn stuff in. 50/50 of your rewards are given already just doing them.
Dude, I remember Forts were only World Events and people would Camp Outposts nearby, waiting for them to be finished and they arrive. Why? Players didnt like to travel long distances and its what many call "Clever Tactic"

In any other game this would be called "griefing", for some reason here it's called "intended gameplay".

So, in Halo I just wanna drive a warhog, but other players get in my way and kill me. Is that Griefing? I just wanna drive a warhog. Same with Minecraft, I just wanna join a server and build a house. But others would rob my stuff and blow up my house. Is that griefing? To me...If its intended part of the game, Any other player including you can do it, Its not griefing.
It does 0 Harm. Only harm in griefing is they prevent me from 0% doing anything.

If they keep my ship from sinking and I cant spawn back in the game or they kill me, That is Griefing. But we have Scuttle. :p If they use Text or voice chat to slander, that is griefing, But we have Mute.

You have the same Tools as everyone else. Use them.

PvP should never have been forced

It isn't It either happens or doesn't (Today) Ive played for 6 hours and passed 8 random ships, not one fired a shot at me and this was on a pc/console server. Who was forced?

Make it so Reaper's Bones no longer gains extra rewards for attacking other non-PvP specific emissaries.

That is by design...See any ship. Do they have loot? idk..Lets sink them. (They also have Ship Logs that can be sold)

Make it so you can no longer lower your emissary flag

Ok..so once Im done for the day, Im just gonna log off and my ship scuttles itself, the flag floats to the top. Someone finds it...Free Exp for Reapers. Why?

This means people dedicate their session to that emissary, and are forced to sell the loot they got by not doing emissary work at a lower price.

So you want to Force players to sell the loot they got. For someone against forcing players to not do anything, this very weird. Dont force me to do something like this.

The passive feature would disable interaction with other ships completely, as if they weren't even there.

So two ships would fade into one another as they were Phantom Ships?

PvP emissaries however, should not be allowed to become "passive" for obvious reasons.

Unfair. Pirate Code, All pirates are Equal on the Seas.

this completely removes any and all toxicity complaints people have about the Sea of Thieves.

Still doesn't. Toxicity will find away around this.

I think fully implenting all of that (with the necessary tweaks of course) would make the game a lot more enjoyable for everyone

Very small %, Ive met players ingame who never visit the Forums or Reddit. They just play the game and enjoy it.
Some like myself, who dont care if they sink with 40 boxes of loot just laugh at the crazy stuff.
This...would ruin all fun.

What does everyone else think?

Nobody seems to agree.