Harpoon at Reapers

@jspikee where would you put it?

Not sure. Maybe have a soverign like tower that is high enough to have harpoons off of coming from the middle of the hideout?

As a counter-point, you are quite correct that it is intentional that selling is time-consuming at the Reaper's Hideout and it should remain so.

The Reapers are, both in-universe and out, the PvP- or fighting-focused group in the game and are not like the trading companies that enjoy the benefits of the Sovereigns. They're not an organized business or organization that provides voyages to complete or a framework of commerce wherein gold is fairly exchanged for goods and/or services; the Reapers are a loosely affiliated gang of murderers, thieves and anarchists fighting under a delusive idea of "freedom" whose main purpose is to disrupt the trading companies, loot and kill everyone who doesn't fly the same banners they do...and also loot and kill their fellow Reapers sometimes, too. Just because.

There needs to be more of an element of risk and a better than decent chance of getting caught and/or interrupted while selling at the Hideout as befits a group that more than likely themselves stole what they're turning in from some other crew.

No shortcuts. No 'easier to sell'. It's always been a core part of the risk every time you raise your flag for the Reapers and needs to stay that way.

@thegrimpreacher I think there could still be a medium ground here. If a harpoon was placed around the usual parking spot south side you still are running individual loot back and forth leaving time to contest since you announce to the server your intent to sell on the map.

Where everything is made easier in the game, having this one method still be old style running is punishing that playstyle. I'd happily take the gold cut to match sovereign rates to use a harpoon there.

@hiradc

I mean, not to put too fine a point on it but a combative playstyle should be "punished", so to speak. I personally prefer to think of it as 'challenging' when I go out sailing with a Reaper flag. It's harder to do by design and needs to stay that way.

Nor do I particularly agree that "punishing" is an accurate term for having to continue to sell the way we always have (and sailors of non-Captained ships still continue to do as well).

Everything is supposed to be a fight for the Reapers. Selling ought to be, too.

@thegrimpreacher said in Harpoon at Reapers:

As a counter-point, you are quite correct that it is intentional that selling is time-consuming at the Reaper's Hideout and it should remain so.

The Reapers are, both in-universe and out, the PvP- or fighting-focused group in the game and are not like the trading companies that enjoy the benefits of the Sovereigns. They're not an organized business or organization that provides voyages to complete or a framework of commerce wherein gold is fairly exchanged for goods and/or services; the Reapers are a loosely affiliated gang of murderers, thieves and anarchists fighting under a delusive idea of "freedom" whose main purpose is to disrupt the trading companies, loot and kill everyone who doesn't fly the same banners they do...and also loot and kill their fellow Reapers sometimes, too. Just because.

There needs to be more of an element of risk and a better than decent chance of getting caught and/or interrupted while selling at the Hideout as befits a group that more than likely themselves stole what they're turning in from some other crew.

No shortcuts. No 'easier to sell'. It's always been a core part of the risk every time you raise your flag for the Reapers and needs to stay that way.

I’m guessing you don’t play reaper much huh? A little risk/reward is good and I don’t mind, but any other ship can sell a 4 stack FOTD faster at sovereigns than reapers can sell 1 vault, it’s Quite unbalanced. There is only 1 outpost to sell at currently so that makes camping or running back to reattack easier, and the island is surrounded by cannons to help sink you. I’m not saying exactly like sovereigns but cmon gives a little bit of a break.

@thegrimpreacher said in Harpoon at Reapers:

@hiradc

I mean, not to put too fine a point on it but a combative playstyle should be "punished", so to speak. I personally prefer to think of it as 'challenging' when I go out sailing with a Reaper flag. It's harder to do by design and needs to stay that way.

Nor do I particularly agree that "punishing" is an accurate term for having to continue to sell the way we always have (and sailors of non-Captained ships still continue to do as well).

Everything is supposed to be a fight for the Reapers. Selling ought to be, too.

But IF you lost the ability to sell as fast as you used to be able to you would see this as unfair and some would even venture to say breaks the game some. Think about it. If a reaper is mainly hunting other emissaries but that emissary can sell its entire stack in sub 2 minutes making it almost impossible to steal loot anymore unless you beat them to the outpost. Combine this with the distance to sail back to reapers, where the other crew KNOWS you’ll be headed. and you get the frustration this can bring. Again it doesn’t have to be “sovereigns but for reapers” just a little more convenient.

@jon-sea-nah

I play it enough to have all my comms done except for the guild emissary flags, three of my five distinctions earned and my monthly emissary ledgers all caught up. You would, however, be correct in assuming it is not my primary playstyle.

No one has "lost" the ability to do anything by sailing as a Reaper. They simply didn't get an express lane put in like the other legitimate trading companies did and I still don't believe they should.

You are correct, it IS quite unbalanced, and it is by design. Everyone on a Captained ship has access to the Sovereigns and the benefits they provide, and they have plenty of different trading companies to choose from. Or their Guild, for that matter!

But if I wanna ride the struggle bus by playing the "bad" guys, then I get to ride the hard road and fight an uphill battle. Makes the turn-ins feel so much more consequential to me when I gotta work for 'em. Those days I wanna raise a little hell with my Reaper flag flying, I don't expect an "easy" session and don't think anyone else should, either.

Sorry, but I just don't support any plan to change any part of the Reaper selling process any easier. It makes sense to me in its current iteration from both a storyline and gameplay point-of-view.

I can see where you're coming from and understand your point. I just don't agree with it.

It never is for someone that doesn’t use it much right…. If we said Athena’s and COF’s go to Port Merrick and must be sold to the respective representatives directly, 98% of the player base would lose their minds. “It makes it too easy to camp” “it makes it too easy to steal” “people don’t fight you they just camp the outpost” it’s all the same stuff at reapers. Harpoons at sovereigns SHIFTED the balance, no longer having to unload the harpoons BROKE the balance. As previously stated the captain ship can sell a session full of loot in less time than a reaper can sell 1 vault…. That’s a little much on the difference there. People nerfed dbl guns due to 0.12 sec difference in TTK, but quadruple, if not longer, the time it takes to sell and it’s ok?

Not picking on YOU but when this isn’t how you primarily choose to play then it is just an inconvenience from time to time, but for those that do play this way, we are multiple seasons behind in a QOL update essentially. Imagine if ONLY Merchant Alliance could use storage crates, no workarounds, we’d call that a little too stacked. I honestly believe this is getting addressed soon anyways and we’ll see harpoons at reapers, it’s just annoying it took this long.

@thegrimpreacher said in Harpoon at Reapers:

As a counter-point, you are quite correct that it is intentional that selling is time-consuming at the Reaper's Hideout and it should remain so.

The Reapers are, both in-universe and out, the PvP- or fighting-focused group in the game and are not like the trading companies that enjoy the benefits of the Sovereigns. They're not an organized business or organization that provides voyages to complete or a framework of commerce wherein gold is fairly exchanged for goods and/or services; the Reapers are a loosely affiliated gang of murderers, thieves and anarchists fighting under a delusive idea of "freedom" whose main purpose is to disrupt the trading companies, loot and kill everyone who doesn't fly the same banners they do...and also loot and kill their fellow Reapers sometimes, too. Just because.

There needs to be more of an element of risk and a better than decent chance of getting caught and/or interrupted while selling at the Hideout as befits a group that more than likely themselves stole what they're turning in from some other crew.

No shortcuts. No 'easier to sell'. It's always been a core part of the risk every time you raise your flag for the Reapers and needs to stay that way.

Meh. I agree with the OP.

Given, at this point, they've reduced the risk of selling at every outpost, it makes sense that reapers should be brought up to that same standard. I do not see a game need to keep them selling slowly when everywhere else is convenient. Just make it captain ships only, just like elsewhere. Heck, have it be a kidnapped Sovereign or a skeleton wearing a sovereign wig (for fun) dealing with it.

I don't see the risk/reward argument really being all that great.

I think considering the nature of the hideout, being a bottle neck and all that, the harpoon wouldn’t make much difference. There’s already a spot you can park at that’s pretty much outside the entrance, and then it’s a simple case of running the loot. And where would you realistically put the harpoon too?

@rotten-rocko

I might agree with this except for a couple of very important counters.

1. These days, there are A LOT of PVE reapers who focus on world events. This means that for many reapers, it takes them just as long to collect loot as PVP reapers.

2. There's nothing stopping non-reapers from roaming the seas and engaging with PVP. In fact, with guild emissaries, even the limitation of not getting as much $ for hunting on the seas is greatly lessened, and in fact comes with the bonus of extra $ and reputation for all other factions.

In essence, I don't think that many of the "but pvp balance" really is all that valid anymore. I see no real game reason to not put a harpoon (and even close by seller) on the hideout. And, as for lore reasons, there's no reason why the reapers wouldn't put in convenience into the hideout for delivering tribute.

@jon-sea-nah

Just to clarify, it wouldn't matter if I did choose to primarily play as Reaper or not, I'd still hold the same opinion. I understand that it's not an inconvenience from time to time, it's a tax I pay to play for that particualar group in that particular style. I don't expect equal treatment because the Reapers aren't an EQUAL faction to the other trading companies.

It doesn't matter whether I am or am not "someone that doesn't use it much", you don't get to imply that my opinion somehow carries less weight because I might not play the game in the same manner that you do every single session.

Second, the equivalencies you're attempting to draw with your "What if we said Athena this" and "What if Merchant Alliance that" are built on faulty logic because the Reapers ARE different. They do not get to enjoy the same benefits as the legitimate trading companies because they are a PvP-based faction whose sole purpose is to prevent the other trading companies from completing their voyages, steal the treasures they've worked for and gathered and then sink their ships. The risk level for them to sell is higher as result of that.

As @Rotten-Rocko put it, why do they have to spend two hours doing Gold Hoarders vaults only for a group of Reapers to roll up on them and sink their ship in five minutes and make off with all their hard work? It's an even trade. Legitimate trading company emissaries have a longer timeframe gathering and stacking loot doing the world events and voyages and a comparatively quick sell time compared to Reapers who have nothing to lose and everything to gain by rolling one of the other companies ships' for their loot in a short period of time and then taking longer to sell.

Any argument regarding relative skill level between the two crews is arbitrary. A more skilled or numerically superior crew will win out over a less skilled or smaller crew in statistically almost every cirucmstance, reagrdless of which flag they're sailing under.

@thegrimpreacher said in Harpoon at Reapers:

@jon-sea-nah

Just to clarify, it wouldn't matter if I did choose to primarily play as Reaper or not, I'd still hold the same opinion. I understand that it's not an inconvenience from time to time, it's a tax I pay to play for that particualar group in that particular style. I don't expect equal treatment because the Reapers aren't an EQUAL faction to the other trading companies.

It doesn't matter whether I am or am not "someone that doesn't use it much", you don't get to imply that my opinion somehow carries less weight because I might not play the game in the same manner that you do every single session.

Second, the equivalencies you're attempting to draw with your "What if we said Athena this" and "What if Merchant Alliance that" are built on faulty logic because the Reapers ARE different. They do not get to enjoy the same benefits as the legitimate trading companies because they are a PvP-based faction whose sole purpose is to prevent the other trading companies from completing their voyages, steal the treasures they've worked for and gathered and then sink their ships. The risk level for them to sell is higher as result of that.

As @Rotten-Rocko put it, why do they have to spend two hours doing Gold Hoarders vaults only for a group of Reapers to roll up on them and sink their ship in five minutes and make off with all their hard work? It's an even trade. Legitimate trading company emissaries have a longer timeframe gathering and stacking loot doing the world events and voyages and a comparatively quick sell time compared to Reapers who have nothing to lose and everything to gain by rolling one of the other companies ships' for their loot in a short period of time and then taking longer to sell.

Any argument regarding relative skill level between the two crews is arbitrary. A more skilled or numerically superior crew will win out over a less skilled or smaller crew in statistically almost every cirucmstance, reagrdless of which flag they're sailing under.

Lol but I could do the exact same style of play and I do when I level up other factions. So if a GH robs a GH blind after sinking him, they get to turn in everything super speedy, but REAPERS, oooooohhhhh we better punish those scoundrels. It’s the same style of play, the same piracy, if anything you’re being emissary’ist lol

make it easier to sell

Nope. Reapers need to work, actually work to earn instead of simply doing voyages or stealing. Work to sell

No handicaps

@rotten-rocko
Not necessarily. Reapers is Flameheart's faction, and he's at war with the guardians. He's wanting Tribute, and if the guardians were to roll up and reclaim stolen loot, then it doesn't help him. Adding in a harpoon would lead to efficient claiming of loot.

@rotten-rocko

But, there are guilds now. And that does change the balance.

@rotten-rocko said in Harpoon at Reapers:

@Jon-Sea-Nah

Lol but I could do the exact same style of play and I do when I level up other factions. So if a GH robs a GH blind after sinking him, they get to turn in everything super speedy, but REAPERS, oooooohhhhh we better punish those scoundrels. It’s the same style of play, the same piracy, if anything you’re being emissary’ist lol

Well you can do that with every faction, but it would be very difficult to focus a specific faction outside of reapers since every other company only takes specific loot and you have no way of controlling what loots onboard of ships you sink. So if you're running grade 5 gold hoarders all the random merchants, oos and Athena loot, doesn't go towards your emissary bonus

I could care less about emissary bonus on merchant items if I’m GH. What I am saying is I still PVP’d to get that loot but simply by proxy of picking any other company other than reapers then your sell time is a mere fraction of the time. I do see this all changing in the next season or 2 it’s just annoying it took this long.

Just for my two gold here. I think it should stay how it is. I am all for pvp and honestly yes i haven't really done the grind for reaper yet as it's cosmetics don't really appeal to me. However in easily 90% of cases it's easier to attack a ship and steal everything then it is to go do the work yourself. You are getting a lot of reward for little risk and even possibly little time depending on your luck. I mean to be fair i literally saw a ship at a small island rammed it and beached it good and exploded it. They didn't get a chance to fight back and was emy5 and had about 500K loot on the ship. The players you target assume all the risk until they get it back to sell. Reapers only assume risk if they stack or try to sell.

I also get that faction a,b,c can pvp and still sell to the sovereigns but you have to think. What is the main way the other factions make money/reputation? They do voyages and what is reapers main way? PVP. Honestly I know when i am playing usually if I am flagged up I usually avoid being hostile as i am trying to grind rep or gold and I will defend myself. If i am flagged reaper i am hunting players while looking for loot to. Just my opinion on this

@hiradc see this is what I was hoping. Like have it dropped at the door or something and still have to carry it to the reaper

@rotten-rocko or guild

@shifue-draven there's an unwritten assumption here that all reaper gains are from stealing from other ships. That is absolutely a fallacy, even those who mainly pvp may do world events to reach level 5 or stack fotds etc.

To clarify with the current state of selling loot for reapers I don't run that emissary as much outside of hourglass. I do however sink all the same people I just sell at sovereigns instead, so if there's a thought that this is stopping pvp then I can say in my case it certainly isn't true. I've never been one for relying on g5 reaper to find players especially now with diving and the prevalence. I more go for opportunistic pvp I.e ill see if someone is doing this fof, I see a fotd or veil up, or even that ship exists 😅.

@rotten-rocko
If you run guild emissary you can turn in every faction for decent gold

@rotten-rocko
It is, but that's to balance the fact you get rep for guilds and all other factions.

The no harpoon doesn't make sense as balance for reapers anymore.

@qu1etone said in Harpoon at Reapers:

@jspikee where would you put it?

Raise the mast with the torch in its crowsnest above reapers 45º and add a harpoon; finally bust a hole in the roof anywhere.

If it can reach the parking spot most reapers use it's fine.

reapers is fine way it its its higher risk for higher reward marked on map slowewr selling to give people chance of claiming your loot and flag i think it was bad when they made so you can sell flags at outposts, regular faction loot can be harpooned because you are a ship trying to get bonus and avoid pvp on specific loot. sometime someones going to put on here cant we just sell it once its on our ship. LOOT IS NOT YOURS TILLL ITS SOLD