Honestly believe these two things would help retain players. Raising ladders would change the meta of boarding and controlling the crew by killing them over and over and friendly cannon fire would create more risk factor if you're willing to board a ship you're trying to sink. I know people could troll new players with killing each other with cannon fire but I think in the long run that would help hour glass and pvp in the the long run. If you're willing to board you have to put yourself close enough to be at risk and because they are introducing harpoon line walking and the harpoon gun coming in season 14. There's no creation for any type of shop defense.
Very unpopular suggestion Raising ladders and allowing friendly fire from cannons
This exact idea pops up a lot on these forums, and just… Nah. I know people don’t like the boarding meta but boarding via ladder is fully intended and removing it would be strange. I would only be OK with this idea if you could shoot the ladders back down. Friendly fire from cannons would just be annoying.
@gameglarb true think maybe having them knock down with sail or maybe half water in hull would fit the situation the ship is in
@cannytwocrows Honestly the idea of ladders knocked down when ship is half full sounds great, that way people would need to use a bit of naval before boarding, good idea
@burnbacon true but to many take no damage boarding while defending crew takes more damage than the boarder always seemed unfair in that aspect
If someone is easily boarding and spawn camping you, they can likely easily defeat you in naval too. This just massively changes the balance of the game based on a bias against boarding (if changes like this were made, naval would need massive changesto nerf bilge potential and not make fights long drawn out with no one sinking). I also favour naval, blunderbuss or blunderbomb all0ws me to force fights to suit that style. That and if you are putting pressure on their ship it makes it riskier to send boarders.
If this is because you are being outnumbered then the issue isn't boarding specifically
Yes to all of these things.
The new harpoon gun is going to make boarding so trivial, there is no reason not to be able to raise the ladders now. There are tall tales where you need to shoot or cut a rope to drop something, so it makes sense to me that in the water you could cut or shoot a rope to drop the ladder or else you may get stuck off your ship. (Yes you could swim to get a mermaid, but still, it's a balance thing as well.)
And yes, friendly fire from cannons must be activated. I understand that every game lies on a scale from abstraction to simulation, but the idea that I can wantonly fire cannons at skeleton lords, ashen lords, and enemy ships without my crew getting hit falls way on the other side of ridiculous for me, even for a game as wacky as Sea of Thieves. Throw a blunder bomb or fire bomb, fire one out of a cannon and friendlies get hurt. But a ten pound cannonball that produces a plume of deadly shrapnel when hitting the side of a ship, nope, entirely immune. What a crock.
@lordqulex I don't think ladders need changing unless you want to force a meta of having to equip the harpoon gun at all times, even for cases where you get knocked off your own ship with your ladders up.
If you get knocked off your ship and you're not anchored chances are you're taking a mermaid back anyway, and if you are anchored cutting the rope would be trivial. So I don't feel rolling up the ladders changes that circumstance much at all.
Boarding is the META because the skill gap is huge. If you don't think PvP enthusiasts will equip the harpoon gun at all times anyway then we're not on the same page to talk on this topic.
I assume you saw the video. The harpoon gun will make deck shots common and not an awesome trick; fire in the general direction of the ship, harpoon the deck, board complete. The harpoon gun is going to make boarding so trivial, rolling up the ladder because the defense when the boarder runs out of harpoons.
It is a very popular, but very contentious suggestion. You are not the first to make it.
@lordqulex if boarding is going to be trivial, what's the point of messing with the ladder mechanic?
@d3adst1ck said in Very unpopular suggestion Raising ladders and allowing friendly fire from cannons:
@lordqulex if boarding is going to be trivial, what's the point of messing with the ladder mechanic?
Balance. The harpoon gun is going to give boarders a new tool to get on to the ship. The ship needs a new tool to keep boarders off of it.
@lordqulex but this tool is not going to keep harpoon gun players off of the ship.
It only addresses players not using harpoon guns and only able to use ladders, which is harder to do.
It doesn't balance anything. In fact, it pushes players to use the easier tool more often leading to more boarding.
Again, people are going to be using the harpoon gun anyway because it's the better tool. If they do release traps with the gun, the traps are going to be set atop the ladder. Harpoon guns will bypass those, hooking the balcony or a mast.
What this does is balance when the gun runs out of ammo, making it harder and more skill intensive to board during prolonged encounters. It makes the harpoon gun ammo a resource that needs to be monitored and managed, something you need to remember to refill. It adds a layer of depth and strategy to the encounter.
@lordqulex if boarding with the harpoon gun is easy, they aren't going to run out of ammo. They'll mermaid and refill at their own ship if they need to.
So if boarding is trivial with a harpoon gun, changing the ladders does absolutely nothing except force more harpoon gun use rather than encourage loadout variety.
Balance. The harpoon gun is going to give boarders a new tool to get on to the ship. The ship needs a new tool to keep boarders off of it.
Assuming the harpoon gun is taking up a weapon slot; players have to decide if their skill is good enough to make the board via the weapon and start combat with the other weapon, otherwise, they’ll board as normal with both weapons of their choice in tact. That’s the balance and no need for a new tool to keep boarders off.
@d3adst1ck It does no such thing: this is a skill game, if you can board the ship by cutting the rope and grabbing the ladder, you don't need the harpoon gun. They'll mermaid and refill at their ship if they remember to. Combat is fast and chaotic and many pirates I've met are too laser focused on boarding and sometimes forget to grab ammo or more throwables. It's not going to force people to use the harpoon gun, it's going to give them the option to do so.
I mean, yea, it's a hot take and an early prediction, but unless the harpoon gun carries only one shot boarders are going to use it. Period. Sure, here will be some NAL grognards saying they don't need it, but every boarder on the summit of Dunning-Krueger's Mount Stupid is going to be carrying a harpoon gun.
@tesiccl said in Very unpopular suggestion Raising ladders and allowing friendly fire from cannons:
Balance. The harpoon gun is going to give boarders a new tool to get on to the ship. The ship needs a new tool to keep boarders off of it.
Assuming the harpoon gun is taking up a weapon slot; players have to decide if their skill is good enough to make the board via the weapon and start combat with the other weapon, otherwise, they’ll board as normal with both weapons of their choice in tact. That’s the balance and no need for a new tool to keep boarders off.
Very good point.
That depends on other uses for the harpoon gun and it's effect in CQC. If it has more than three shots, and can pull players toward you, then harpoon/blunder or harpoon/cutlass make a good combination. This argument hinges on the fact that the harpoon will be useless in combat, and we all know that area control is not useless in combat. Pirates will figure out a way to utilize the harpoon in CQC, so it's not "balanced" because "you can't take another weapon;" it still is another tool and that needs to be balanced.
@lordqulex said in Very unpopular suggestion Raising ladders and allowing friendly fire from cannons:
@d3adst1ck It does no such thing: this is a skill game, if you can board the ship by cutting the rope and grabbing the ladder, you don't need the harpoon gun. They'll mermaid and refill at their ship if they remember to. Combat is fast and chaotic and many pirates I've met are too laser focused on boarding and sometimes forget to grab ammo or more throwables. It's not going to force people to use the harpoon gun, it's going to give them the option to do so.
I mean, yea, it's a hot take and an early prediction, but unless the harpoon gun carries only one shot boarders are going to use it. Period. Sure, here will be some NAL grognards saying they don't need it, but every boarder on the summit of Dunning-Krueger's Mount Stupid is going to be carrying a harpoon gun.
So what's the point of changing the ladders again? Everyone is using a harpoon gun which bypasses that.
I don't know what your skill level is, but when 2 skilled crews fight it is near impossible to sink each other without getting a kill. You can pummle a sloop from all angles but if both people are alive they can easily turtle and stay afloat so no to the ladders. While in theory team damage from cannons sounds like it would add another level of strategy, I feel like in reality it would just be annoying and I would just use it to troll my friends
@lordqulex your whole argument is "well people will be using the harpoon gun anyways so it doesn't matter" if that is the case, then pulling up your ladders would matter because people will be using the harpoon. All this would do is make the harpoon gun a nessesity for boardy instead of a really good option. Ladders are the most defensible part of your ship already so it is better for you if the enemy decides to board via the ladder than the harpoon gun. If you respond to this please let me know what good raiseing ladders would add to the game and how that outweighs the potential bad, not just how harpoon willl be a thing
@tesiccl feel like those mechanics are already there mermaid and dying not saying you shouldn't be at a disadvantage with ladders up and knocked off.
@cannytwocrows there is a very real chance you’ll be knocked off your ship by a skilled pvp’er. They notice your ladders are raised, they drop the anchor (knowing you can’t climb back up), so you’re happy to swim all the way to find a mermaid while your ship is sinking? Or send yourself to the ferry via… how? Big doubt on that one.
@jojo-buddy-v2 said in Very unpopular suggestion Raising ladders and allowing friendly fire from cannons:
@lordqulex your whole argument is "well people will be using the harpoon gun anyways so it doesn't matter" if that is the case, then pulling up your ladders would matter because people will be using the harpoon. All this would do is make the harpoon gun a nessesity for boardy instead of a really good option. Ladders are the most defensible part of your ship already so it is better for you if the enemy decides to board via the ladder than the harpoon gun. If you respond to this please let me know what good raiseing ladders would add to the game and how that outweighs the potential bad, not just how harpoon willl be a thing
Ladders are the most defensible part of your ship right now. As soon as harpoon guns are added there will be no such thing as a defensible part of your ship: every place the harpoon can latch becoming a boarding point. Harpoons will not be a necessity because as I've said above, I advocate for a cutable release for raised ladders.
But to your point, what good raising your ladders would add. Harpoon gun does not have infinite ammo. Think of this situation. Someone harpoons onto your ship. You blunder them off; bomb or gun, it doesn't matter. They eat a mango and harpoon again. You defend them and they jump off the ship to survive, eat a mango, then harpoon again. Eventually, they run out of ammo. Now they need to mermaid back to their ship because your ladders are rolled up, or they need to cut the ladder release. There is a situation where, even with a harpoon gun, a boarder will need to use the ladder. Pulling up the ladder defends against that.
If you respond to this, please let me know what potential harm raising ladders adds to the game. "Oh, you won't be able to board your own ship!" No, firstly because I'm proposing that raised ladders should be able to be shot or cut down from the water, and second because mermaids exist.
@jojo-buddy-v2 that's where either knocking the sail down or ship at half filled will automatically release the ladders.
@hiradc so we don't consider sails falling over, wheels becoming severely damaged, and anchor damage not significant change to naval? Would be interesting to add to the list of ship items to be damaged to include cannons. But yes the meta goes send a boarder drop anchor move you ship to firing range. This would focus on more naval and to board rather than having your ship at a safe distance you would be forced to close the gap. Would help retain players who are new from being spawned camped or being outnumbered within their beginning days on the sea.
@tesiccl remember them mentioning they saw players missing their deck shot or over shooting the other ship but shooting the harpoon gun to the opposite ship and pulling themselves in. Which I'm going to be having a field day with when I get the chance.
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